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Is Faith Shaun's Problem?

Greetings,

After being in Seattle the last weekend I picked up a copy of Touchdown Alexander and read most of it in the awesome Elliot's bookstore downtown (1st & main maybe?).

The book struck me with the emphasis on faith.  I know different people's faiths vary but one thing Shaun seems sure of is that God has given him all of his success.  

I know lots of pro athletes are very religious, probably disproportionately to the population.  However, the nature of his faith seems to be that his success was preordained, predetermined somehow, i.e., he believes in predestination.

After seeing his own dramatic success in '05, is it possible he's just overindulging in faith that he'll do well rather than really question himself deep inside?  If you're just positively sure everything will work out... why would you push yourself to the maximum?  

Just a thought.
-CBF

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I was thinking this too
I think Alexander's faith was exposed as a bit extreme when he basically claimed last year that his broken foot would heal faster than doctor's predicted.  He pretty much said it would happen cause he believed it would; he sounded like a faith healer.  We all know how well that worked out . . .

Religion can be great, but it doesn't replace doctor's, physical therapy, or running like you're in the last year of your contract.

by Snuffleupagus on Oct 18, 2007 8:05 PM PDT   0 recs

You know,
not to quash the discussion, but Shaun Alexander's performance can be entirely explained by his age, usage, the decline and loss of Mack Strong, the decline of Walter Jones and the loss of Steve Hutchinson.

by John Morgan on Oct 18, 2007 8:35 PM PDT   0 recs

Yeah, I don't really know
why we have to bring in a guy's faith into this. I'm not a big Shaun fan this year, but c'mon.

by Eegah on Oct 18, 2007 9:13 PM PDT   0 recs

Interesting comments
To Eegah:

I'm only bringing it up because it jumped through to me from his book and from the foot injury debacle last year.

When someone brings faith into the public sphere it's fair game, and I was not trying to criticize it but just understand how it affects his recent performance (which we're all not satisfied with, him included).

To John:
If running backs were a perfect function of O line, age, carries, and FB, they'd be a lot more interchangeable than they are.  He didn't have any of those in college and he was an incredible back.  If you plugged in another RB during Shaun's MVP season they wouldn't have done as well as he did, short of LT or some other future HOF'r (I'm not sure SA is HOF material, jury is still out).  

In general:
He had an elusiveness that is now gone.  He had balance and sipped 'YAC (yards after contact) for tons of his yardage.  Stiffarm?  That is no more.  He's now hitting his tackle in the back and falling down, or getting tackled by the turf.

I thought it might be him needing rehab but maybe it's his faith contributing to the problem as well.

by cooshawkfan on Oct 18, 2007 11:42 PM PDT   0 recs

Have you watched college players tackle?
V. 1.0, mutherf***er, know what I'm sayin'?

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 19, 2007 9:28 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes and it's not pretty, often
I'm not saying he had Marion Barber-type tackle breaking ability but he did break tons of tackles on his long runs.

by cooshawkfan on Oct 19, 2007 1:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So basically what you are saying
is that it is Shaun's faith that has contributed to his lack of elusiveness, lack of balance, lack of YAC, lack of a stiffarm, falling back after hitting the tackle, or getting tackled by the turf.

You know what? Sure, why not. It's probably also partly his wife's fault. Woman needs to get loud and tell off her husband as to his real abilities. And don't get me started on the children!

Personally, I find your lack of faith..... disturbing.

by Eegah on Oct 19, 2007 9:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That's not what I'm saying
I think my message made that clear.

I'm not going to indulge the second half of your comment with a response..

It just seems like he runs without thinking that his choices have an impact on his success, that things will just work out for the best even if he doesn't do the best thing.

If it doesn't make sense I'm sorry but his running doesn't really make sense to me.  It was just a thought I had when I was reading his book.

by cooshawkfan on Oct 19, 2007 1:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Briefly:
Dustin McClintock (Drafted FB)
Chris Samuels (3 time pro bowl LT)
2085 carries
7+ years

Questioning Alexaner's faith is essentially an ad hominem argument. In other words it's fallacious. You're attacking Alexander the man instead of providing a rational argument about Alexander the player. If you wish to argue that Alexander is not properly rehabbing his injury, or that he doesn't work hard enough in the offseason, please provide some kind of evidence that that's true.

Saying that Alexander's faith is at fault for his decline as a running back is unsupported, illogical and ultimately abusive. It's also a touch prejudicial.

Please give your diaries more thought. I'm not going to allow this site to devolve into flame wars and personal attacks.

by John Morgan on Oct 19, 2007 10:33 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well
I, for one, get where you're coming from.  I didn't take your diary as an attack on the man's faith, but rather a question into how hunger and drive play into the picture.  Shaun runs like a man who doesn't care.  And perhaps his religious beliefs play into that.  When he fails, he flashes a smile that seems to say God loves me and there's more to life than football. (This is probably a VERY healthy attitude to have.)

BUT, it would be much more satisfying if he showed some frustration about how much he sucks and tried to do something to improve on it.

I do not believe you were making any fallacious claims.  Certainly "character" is something that can be discussed when talking about performance.  How can you not talk about competitiveness and drive when you debate Brett Favre's place among the all-time greats.  

In Shaun's case, religion does not seem to motivate him to play harder (unlike say... Reggie White who seemed to play with a religious fervor) and it seems a totally acceptable point to wonder about publicly.

by johnbai on Oct 19, 2007 10:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks
Glad someone didn't take it the wrong way.

by cooshawkfan on Oct 19, 2007 1:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Probably going to get banned
Hard to argue with the boss when they have their finger on the ejection seat.

by cooshawkfan on Oct 19, 2007 1:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Your fine
Coach Owens is still around :)
V. 1.0, mutherf***er, know what I'm sayin'?

by Scruffy Lefty on Oct 19, 2007 2:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not going to ban you.
I just want you to reconsider your argument. It doesn't matter if it's plausible, many things are plausible, it only matters if it's substantiated. I don't think it is possible to reasonably substantiate an argument that says Alexander's faith is to blame for his decline. That isn't to deny that his belief in predestination might affect his play or his preparation, but I ask you, how could we possibly know that? Moreover, how can we possibly prove that?

If we can't prove something, it becomes idle speculation. When we begin to speculate about whether a man's beliefs are hurting his play and therefore hurting the Seahawks' chances of contention, that speculation begins to do more harm than good. We are calling into question something that is sacred to Alexander and many billions of people across the world, faith, without a rational or reasonable way of testing our hypothesis. To me, that's abusive argumentation.

In light of so many simpler, more logical and substantiated explanations for his decline, I just don't see how it is productive to question the man's character.

by John Morgan on Oct 19, 2007 2:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

no way
is shaun's faith causing his poor play. that is ridiculous. This is wild speculation that does nothing but provide fodder for people who think they know football to explain why Shaun is struggling to other people in an attempt to look smart.
Go Rabbits!

by brayden04 on Oct 19, 2007 9:04 AM PDT   0 recs

Perfect causation is rare
Some of the strangest explanations have turned out to be true.

Please don't flame/dismiss the possibility.

If you have something constructive to add though, it might be interesting..

by cooshawkfan on Oct 19, 2007 2:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmmm
Truth be told, I'm a little surprised by the reactions to this diary.  

John, you do an amazing job of throwing data analysis behind a lot of your posts, but a lot of the rest of us pretty commonly post something that we just believe or feel from personal observation, nothing verifiable, etc.

I thought (and still think) that the point cooshawkfan was making is entirely plausible and interesting.  I'm not going to take it as gospel (ha!  pun intended!), but I have heard Shaun go on a few lengthy spiels about the importance of religion in his everyday life, and how much it's meant to him in shaping his outlook on life.  Alexander seems to truly believe that he's been the recipient of a good measure of grace from God, that he's had such success because of the way he's lived his life and the way he's done things within the game.

Now here's where I think cooshawkfan's point is somewhat interesting/relevant.  No, obviously we can't say that Alexander sucks because he's religious.  But it lends some insight into why he perhaps continues to struggle, refuses to take blame, and doesn't adapt his style even in the face of repeated and continuous failure.  We can't know why, but it's pretty obvious that Shaun isn't changing anything about his approach, an approach that isn't working and drives us all batty watching.  It makes sense to me that the approach that Shaun's taking might be heavily or entirely influenced by his religious mentality.

I'm not (and I don't believe cooshawksfan was trying to, either) trying to give Alexander a hard time for being religious.  It's an interesting discussion to have, though, and might help us form some idea of what to expect from him in the future.  If Shaun hasn't changed his running style yet because of a religious perspective, we can't really expect him to do so ever, no matter how many times he rushes for no gain.

Does that make sense to everyone else?  I'm not trying to get in anyone's face or get anyone up in arms, I can understand disagreeing with the idea that religion has influenced Alexander's running style.  But I still think it's an interesting idea worth discussing for a couple of different reasons.

Meanwhile, let's please beat the Rams!

by jimmimoose on Oct 19, 2007 7:28 PM PDT   0 recs

Yes!
Hit the nail on the head.

I was also surprised at the responses.

Most important thing about this post though:

LET'S BEAT THE RAMS!!

GO HAWKS!
-CF

by cooshawkfan on Oct 19, 2007 10:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

See, here's the thing
It's fine to say that something is a "possibility", and to discuss about the merits of said "possibility". The problem in this case is that what you would have to believe is that faith is causing Shaun to not change his style of running, or to basically be a root cause of his demise as an elite running back.

See, you could just as easily state that it is a "possibility" that the reason Matt Hasselbeck has a hard time trusting other receivers is that he is politically conservative, and thus more prone to think of himself as an individual, needing to look out for #1, as you will (I'm just making this example up as I go..... sorry if it's terrible).

The point isn't that something is possible. The point is that it is usually kinda nicer to examine an athlete's results with what is observable and identifiable, such as decrease in speed or increased fragility or tentativeness, instead of going to possibilities that look at a more personal trait and attribute the negative outcome to that.

There is no way to prove that Shaun's faith has anything whatsoever to do with his decline, as there is no way to prove that Shaun's faith had anything whatsoever to do with his MVP season. In that case, I just don't see the need to, I guess, go there.

Basically, the simpler explanation in all this is that Shaun hasn't changed because Shaun doesn't have the physical tool anymore TO change. He can't GET faster, he can't hit the hole harder, etc., etc.

I understand that there was no malicious intent with the post, and you can feel free to disagree with me on this and any diary, but those were my two cents (actually about 12 cents).

On a final note, I'm a tad disappointed that no one addressed my final line, in that I found people's lack of faith disturbing. I was proud of that joke, darn it!

by Eegah on Oct 19, 2007 11:00 PM PDT   0 recs

Haha
Matt Hasselbeck and Ayn Rand = objectivists.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!

by Phildopip on Oct 20, 2007 8:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Man we need to get Branch back.

 "Mr. Burleson."

"What is is Matt?"


"Why are you not running your routes?"


"I'm getting open but you're not looking my way."


"Mr. Burleson, you must love the doing, not the secondary consequences."


"Matt, you're killing us just sitting in the pocket waiting to get sacked. You got to get that ball out of your hands."


"I enjoy being sacked, men crushing my body and bones, because I know I've made the right decision to not pass."

by John Morgan on Oct 20, 2007 10:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Such things are dangerous.
Jeez, I relent control for three weeks and we're already having religious wars. Right on! Last Scoop site I ran we took a year and a half!

Religion and politics are a couple of things that sports blogs sites are encouraged to avoid, but I don't think cooshawkfan's original argument, whether one agrees with it or not, was necessarily inflammatory from the get-out. Faith is a personal thing, and sometimes in the questioning of its issues, well, some folks take in personally. But was cooshawkfan was asking was, "Is Shaun using his faith as a smokescreen?"

I personally agree with Morgan, et al, that faith, as Shaun has expressed it, really doesn't have to do anything with the situation. Yes, God (if you believe in him) is commonly thought to guide people's destinies, but if Shaun decided to eat a diet of Twinkies and root beer in front of the television when he was a high school kid, would he have "followed God's plan"?

Most Christians I have spoken with seriously about this subject agree on one thing: God may have a destiny in mind for humankind, but he gave mankind the right of "free will." I think even Shaun would agree with that tenet; your faith in God can only do so much. There's a responsibility humankind are probably supposed to follow.

Does Shaun's slack-off have anything to do with his personal spiritual beliefs? No, not at all. What his faith will do in this particular situation is give him a reference point in the future, when he interprets what this particular bad stretch in his career meant to him, in terms of faith and his relationship with God.

I swear I'm agnostic. I'm just showing off.

--Shrug

by Shrug on Oct 20, 2007 11:05 PM PDT   0 recs

Man we need Branch back
That was freaking hilarious John. Seriously though, how can a starting wideout in the NFL not run his route correctly. How hard is it (and I mean that question seriously not obnoxiously)? It seems like one would benched or cut if you couldn't run a route.

by jrtking73 on Oct 25, 2007 4:54 PM PDT   0 recs

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