Field Gulls: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:

Around SBN: Check out our NFL Scoreboard: scores, schedule and blogs Bar-right-arrows

Open Thread: Mike Holmgren's Press Conference: Matt Hasselbeck Out Against Tampa Bay

Jj_flag_detail1_tiny by John Morgan on in Seahawks News

Somehow this seems worthy of hanging out for and maybe providing some commentary.

Oh shit, no Beck this week and his back is serious.

Matt Hasselbeck's bulging disk is contributing to his knee problems. This explains a bit why Beck has been playing panicked and throwing without power.

Mike Holmgren shot down any chance Seattle trades for help, which, given Seattle's slim chances of competing, should be a given.

Mike Holmgren finally put some blame on special teams and punting. About damn time.

Charlie Frye, not practiced and also kinda crappy.

Mike Holmgren's Wish List: "A couple big plays a game."

"We got snookered a little bit on the coaching side." Not sure what that means.

Here's a conversation starter: Should Seattle attempt to trade Patrick Kerney?

It sounds like there's a darn good chance Frye is starting against the fourth ranked defense in the NFL.

Mike Wahle had his best game according to Holmgren. I agree with that, but it should be noted GB has some crap DTs. Holmgren didn't think it was holding, I agree.

Will Heller will miss significant time.

0 recs | Comment 76 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

If seneca stays healthy....

I think this could be a huge opportunity, he will get some experience and show what he is made of…we have a tough schedule ahead, but the D showed signs of recovery (in the first half), and the offense will be nearly 100% (minus Hass…tisk tisk). Honestly….there is only one way to go from here…and thats up.

As bad as it is I bleed blue green and gray til I die…since we probably wont make the playoffs, lets see what this team is made of. Can Seneca make team leading decisions? Can the D step up and make some damn plays? We have nothing to lose so I’m kinda looking forward.

Also, its Mikes last year, so I don’t understand why he is still so conservative with the play calling? I understand not going deep every play, but Frye was throwing ok in the short game, I would have really like to see the play calling mixed up a little….oh well, a new week and another try for a win, as the brown showed tonight, anything can happen.

Rock out with your Hawk out!

by collyb on Oct 13, 2008 10:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Also, Beck has kind of sucked this season.

His receivers haven’t been there, but he’s playing panicked, and if his back is bad…just confirmed bulging disk…you can kind of see why.

by John Morgan on Oct 13, 2008 2:31 PM PDT   0 recs

I have a bulging disk

and it makes everything very hard. I’m one of the rare people that will never recover, but like 90% recover in 6 weeks (More or less stats, I can’t remember the exact one).

I feel for Hass.

by GarethLewin on Oct 13, 2008 6:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry to hear that.

Does it restrict movement at all?

by redwolf75 on Oct 13, 2008 6:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I also have a bulging disk...

I am waiting to have my 3rd surgery in the last year. I can’t even imagine playing pro football with a similar condition.

by Misfit74 on Oct 13, 2008 9:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Getting "snookered"

Is being put into a tight situation, like having your #1 and #2 QB’s not playing. They were backed into a corner and the playbook had to be pared down for Frye, so they were handcuffed quite a bit.

by thecassino on Oct 13, 2008 2:54 PM PDT   0 recs

Any word on Deon Grant

Well, not that it matters but …

by Hawqz on Oct 13, 2008 3:21 PM PDT   0 recs

Why would they trade Kerney

That makes no sense:
Player for player trades almost never happen in the NFL
If there were a player for player trade, what would the Seahawks be trading for?
What team in the NFL would be willing to give up starting level talent at a position of need for the Seahawks?
Kerney’s cap number is a bargain for his output
Any draft pick they would get would probably be in the second day, which isn’t great for a starter who was a pro bowler last year.
There’s no reason to make Kerney a scapegoat.

I could go on and on.

by thecassino on Oct 13, 2008 3:34 PM PDT   0 recs

It's not making Kerney the scapegoat

Kerney appears healthy and is still producing. His value is very high and if Seattle can grab a 1st or 2nd round pick for him then they probably should.

Obviously if they don’t get a good offer then I have no problem at all keeping Kerney on the team.

by MFAN on Oct 13, 2008 3:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That's highly implausible

No team in the league would trade a 1st or 2nd round pick for him. Teams hold onto those like they’re grim death, they’re certainly not going to trade one for a 31 year old defensive end.
He’d probably get a 4th or 5th round pick. A 3rd would be a steal.

by thecassino on Oct 13, 2008 3:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You are a strawman machine.

You really like picking fights. I hope you know you are on your last legs here. I’m not fond of banning someone for being critical, but you create arguments I didn’t make just so you can angrily rebuke them. It’s an eyesore and not benefiting anyone.

The reason you consider trading Kerney is that it’s a position of strength for Seattle, he’s nearing 32 and defensive ends don’t age well. It’s obviously far fetched, but I think a sound argument could be made that Seattle should consider it. And despite your argument to the contrary, Kerney becomes expensive starting in 2009.

by John Morgan on Oct 13, 2008 3:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Right

I give my views on what you called a conversation starter, and you get offended? OK.

You call DE a position of strength, but you just wrote an article about Jackson’s poor play. Kerney is getting old, yes, I mentioned that first. And you strengthen my argument of him not having as much value as his production indicates by saying that DE’s don’t age well. Kerney’s cap number this year is 3.25. That was my argument. And for a Pro Bowler, 3.25 is a steal, as I said. Kerney becoming expensive next year is not a special case; contracts never get less expensive. That only makes him less tradeable.

An over thirty defensive end whose contract is becoming expensive has very little value in the NFL trade market.

by thecassino on Oct 13, 2008 4:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I wonder if you don't detect your own tone or just don't care.

You argue points I’m not making.

There’s no reason to make Kerney a scapegoat.
Let’s not bury Jackson just yet

Nothing in any of the last two articles I wrote indicate either point. It’s illogical and irritating.

Then you write things like:

Right

I give my views on what you called a conversation starter, and you get offended? OK.

You don’t see how that can be construed as rude?

Jackson isn’t playing well—this year. That’s normal, rookie defensive ends often don’t make an impact. Defensive ends peak in their mid to late twenties. Seattle has two promising ends that should grow up and play well together, but by then Kerney will be well past his prime or out of the league. Kerney is good this year, but Seattle is also largely out of contention. Next year he’ll likely be a little bit worse, and more expensive. Seattle would free cap dollars and acquire a pick for Kerney. A second round pick is not at all far fetched. In fact, the Dolphins just traded Jason Taylor for a 2nd and 6th round pick. If Seattle could get a third round pick, or a fourth and later round pick, given the likelihood of contention this season, the expected development of Tapp and Jackson, the chance to avoid absorbing the decline of an expensive veteran, and the money saved that could be put towards a younger free agent, I think it makes perfect sense to explore trading Kerney.

by John Morgan on Oct 13, 2008 6:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Jason Taylor

Is a potential Hall of Famer. Pat Kerney is not.

Choosing Pat Kerney of all people to trade would indeed be making him a scapegoat. He’s been one of, if not the most productive player on the defense. Trading your Pro Bowl defensive end midseason would absolutely be a panic move, and one that would result in diminished returns. Not only that, it would create a need at DE, so any draft pick acquired for him (or an earlier one) would have to be used on a DE, unless you expect Darryl Tapp and Lawrence Jackson to play every single snap for the next couple of seasons, and not get injured or tired at any point.

And remember who traded for Jason Taylor: Daniel Snyder. The man places no value on draft picks, and loves to pick up big names who are past their prime. Now, if Dan Snyder ss open to trading for Pat Kerney, then by all means the Seahawks should trade him. Just about every other organization in the league recognizes that the best way to build a franchise is through the draft, and as a result they don’t like to give away draft picks, especially those on the first day because those are the guys that teams expect to become starters within a couple of years.

NFL teams are not built through trades. NFL GM’s know it. The reason for this is that you cannot effectively replace players with draft picks on a consistent basis because the converse is true: NFL teams ARE built through the draft. So draft picks are more often than not overvalued.

This isn’t the NBA, where teams make a midseason trade to put them over the top, or MLB, where teams will give up a portion of the future to make a championship run.

by thecassino on Oct 13, 2008 7:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Isn't saying that Kerney has trade value

the opposite of making him a scape goat?

I think the idea that the NFL never does trades is a little over rated. Taylor, Allen, Moss (twice), Bailey for Portis, Pacman, Hall, and hell even Favre are some of the big names that have been traded over the past couple years. And then you have all of the Colbert and Fischer type moves that go under the radar. Teams have been willing to wheel and deal, and with Kerney being older and the Hawks out of contention it seems reasonable to think there would be a market for an impact DE. Especially if we’re talking 3rd or 4th round picks.

As far as depth goes, it’d be an excellent chance to get Atkins some time and see what you have. Last time I checked Babin hasn’t been picked up by anyone, you could bring him back in and have a solid, young DE rotation. There is absolutely no reason why trading Kerney shouldn’t be explored. You don’t have to make the trade, but you should at least work the phones.

by Nate Dogg on Oct 13, 2008 7:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Like I Said

Jason Taylor was traded to Dan Snyder, who has no idea how to build a franchise. He also traded for Portis to appease Joe Gibbs, incorrectly overvaluing the RB position. The only reason that was a decent trade for them was the rules changes that eliminated the lockdown corner.

Allen, Moss and Pacman were traded at discounts because of their character issues. Hall was a malcontent as well.

Favre was traded because the Packers recognized that they could essentially get something for nothing.

These are all abnormal trades. Pat Kerney is not in the same category as the people mentioned.

by thecassino on Oct 13, 2008 7:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How the hell is a 1st and two 3rd round picks a discount for ALlen?

And Moss went for a first and a starting middle linebacker the first time.

Kerney’s production this year is moot to the Hawks, whereas another team could value it more because of their position in the standings. Trades 101. He could potentially fetch a 3rd or 4th round pick, and with where the Seahawks are right now and where Kerney’s career is heading I think it’s something you have to consider.

by Nate Dogg on Oct 13, 2008 8:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not a discount

It was just a dumb trade. The Vikings have quite the history of draft day blunders though.

Al Davis has become a lot like Dan Snyder. Look at the Deangelo Hall deal. No way is he worth a 2nd round pick, but Davis did it anyway.

Again, this isn’t the NBA. Teams generally stick with what they’ve got unless it’s a painfully glaring need. Name a team that would be willing to send a pick to Seattle for Kerney.

Kerney’s career doesn’t seem to be heading anywhere: his output is still excellent.

by thecassino on Oct 13, 2008 8:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He's good now, obviously he'll be good forever.

Would Buffalo trade for Kerney to make a run while the Pats are down? Do the Broncos want to upgrade their front 7 bad enough to pair him up with Dumerville? The one thing the Titans don’t have on their defense is an impact end.

I mean, thats just armchair GM’ing, and the NFL isn’t Madden. But the idea that teams in the NFL don’t trade is over played (there have been 11 trades since the start of training camp), and dismissing every trade that does happen with “The GM is stupid” is foolish. You’re assuming that Kerney wouldn’t be good for a team that traded him and therefore no team would trade for him when 1) you’ve been playing up how valuable he is to Seattle and 2) showing several instances where GM’s haven’t done whats in their teams best interest.

by Nate Dogg on Oct 13, 2008 8:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Um?

When have I said that he wouldn’t be good for a team that traded [for] him? He’ll be good no matter where he plays, but teams aren’t going to fight each other to trade draft picks to acquire him.

It’s not foolish to say that Dan Snyder and Al Davis are way behind the rest of the NFL, they’ve proven it! Look at Dan Snyder’s signings of players in the latter stages of their careers to long contracts. Look at the Head coaching search this past offseason. Look at the draft picks Dan Snyder practically gives away. Look at the staffing moves Al Davis has made. Look at the Randy Moss and Deangelo hall trades.
These are not men who should be running football teams.

And again I ask you: when was the last time a Pro Bowler was traded midseason?

by thecassino on Oct 13, 2008 8:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Your logic is faulty.

So what if it has been a while if a Pro Bowler was traded midseason?

You seem to think that because there’s no precedent (or at least there hasn’t been for a while) trading Kerney shouldn’t happen. So what if hasn’t happened in a while? Shop him and see if anyone bites.

by BrianL on Oct 13, 2008 8:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is it faulty logic to assume things that never happen won't suddenly happen?

Will the earth explode?
Will California break off of the mainland?
Will Canada invade the United States?
Will bears take over the world?

If there’s something that isn’t happening in the NFL, it’s for a reason. In this case, the reason Pro Bowlers aren’t traded is that it’s just bad management.

by thecassino on Oct 13, 2008 10:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I can't help but feel that this is another

straw man.

No where did I propose that we should trade Kerney at all costs. What I suggested is that we shop Kerney and see if anyone offers a package that might be worth trading for. There is a distinction to be made there.

Take some time to settle down. Rational discussion is always welcome here, but putting words in other people’s mouths isn’t cool.

by BrianL on Oct 13, 2008 11:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

There no time to be rational

Panic….everybody panic!

by collyb on Oct 13, 2008 11:38 PM PDT to parent up   1 recs

Also

When was the last time a Pro Bowler was traded midseason? It just doesn’t happen.

by thecassino on Oct 13, 2008 8:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Portis

Last I checked, Portis is one of the top 3 RBs going these days. The franchise that Synder ’doesn’t know how to run’ boasts the league’s most productive RB and a 4-1 record. That sounds pretty good. I disagree with some of his methods, however.

by Misfit74 on Oct 13, 2008 9:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That's already been brought up

He had to give up the best corner in the game to get him. Runningbacks are a dime a dozen. Top flight corners are a rarity. The reason he did that trade was to appease Joe Gibbs.

And again, that wasn’t a midseason trade, so I still have yet to hear of an example of a Pro Bowler being traded midseason.

by thecassino on Oct 13, 2008 10:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So...

You’re saying we should hold on to our Pro-Bowl DE who’s on the decline and who’s about to get a lot more expensive and who’s trade value will never be higher than right now precisely because of the reasons just given? Ok, just checking.

by sammy on Oct 13, 2008 6:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes

I’m saying the Seahawks should hold onto our best defensive lineman; a Pro Bowler who is still productive and whose trade value will always be less than his output on the field because of his age.

by thecassino on Oct 13, 2008 7:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You're merely a troll looking to pick fights.

It’s obvious looking back at your responses to John’s commentary on tape.

by redwolf75 on Oct 13, 2008 6:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Do everything possible to get Seneca ready!!

If the Hawks want to have a chance at beating Tampa Bay, they need Seneca Wallace to play. It’s that simple.

by MWinters on Oct 13, 2008 6:12 PM PDT   0 recs

At this point, we should just completely shut down Matt

and let Charlie/Seneca play the rest of the season.

No point in risking Hass’ long-term health — the season’s essentially over, as we’re guaranteed to go 1-5 (Frye starting in TB), and the Cards look legit.

by redwolf75 on Oct 13, 2008 6:19 PM PDT   0 recs

I don't agree with that last point.
and the Cards look legit

They’re only legit enough to win this division, but if they win more then 9 games I’ll shit myself.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Oct 13, 2008 6:25 PM PDT   0 recs

No worries.

I guess I should have clarified what “legit” meant. 8-10 wins.

The Seahawks are not going to win 8 at this pace, and with Hass seriously injured.

by redwolf75 on Oct 13, 2008 6:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

it's a long season.

I know this sounds annoyingly optimistic, but until we’re mathematically eliminated, I’m not ruling anything out. I’ve seen too many teams start out gangbusters and finish 7-9. Likewise, I’ve seen lots of teams that looked dead in the water by midseason rebound for 9-7 or 10-6 finishes, be on a hot streak, and do damage in the playoffs. Fortunes can change on one single play, and a rash of injuries like we have had to endure in the beginning can easily effect one of the current NFC “contenders” down the stretch. Even this ‘Hawks team has gone through periods where reports of its demise have been greatly exaggerated the past couple seasons, although we’ve admittedly never been in a hole this deep recently. But, a 7 or 8 game winning streak, or even winning 5 out of 6 is not unprecedented, and suddenly makes it a whole new season.

I know a rah-rah speech about general trends in the NFL does no good when talking about THIS team in particular. 1-4 is not a fluke, and has brought to light some serious issues that I honestly didn’t see coming. But there are some positives as well. Improved OL play and a better running game … a D that has held up reasonably well against the run while getting burned by the pass. The fact that turnovers are usually streaky and come in bunches, and we just haven’t been forcing many lately. Sure, it’s probably just my irrational, emotional love of the team talking … but I still believe we may just be a couple tweaks and lucky bounces away from turning this thing around.

by jteckmann on Oct 13, 2008 7:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Until

Kurt Warner gets hurt….I’d shit myself if he lasts all year.

by m_b on Oct 13, 2008 8:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The odds are in favor of it...

Warner is brittle.

I like we play ARI twice still this year. The division can still be had. It would be improbable and tough, but could happen. I have some hope. Crap, just look at the turnaround the Browns had tonight.

by Misfit74 on Oct 13, 2008 9:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

God wouldn't that be great

But its not like they have Brian Russel at backup, they certainly have some potential in the 2nd position

by collyb on Oct 13, 2008 10:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If Seneca starts

Do we try and establish the running game again like we did against Green Bay? Or do we try and pass the ball down the field?

I think if we have any chance (and that is an incredibly slim one) we have to open up the play book and strike the TB defense with a heavy passing attack. Something radical, like 20 pass plays in a row (didn’t NE do that once?). First of all, it would completely surprise the Bucs. Secondly, the only way the Hawks seem to win is with a potent passing attack. We’ve never won games by trying to establish the run first. If we’re up by 10 points in the 4th quarter than yeah, run the ball down their throats. This is a high risk/reward situation. With Seneca back there, and especially with Frye back there, the chances of an INT are substantial. However, it could be a stunner to the Bucs, and if we score first, anything’s game at that point.

Winning in TB in my opinion is the last hope of salvaging the season. It would be a huge confidence booster and could kick start this team back into focus.

Any thoughts?

by kmedic on Oct 13, 2008 10:15 PM PDT   0 recs

Couldn't agree more

Now that we at least have capable receivers out there, I really think we need quit being so damn conservative on the play calling, it has been pissing me off for about two years now the predictability of our play calling. Stick to what works and put some damn drives together. Look, I am incredibly happy to see a run game develope this year, if nothing else has come out of the season thus far…we have a run game again.

But lets get the pass attack back and give our backs some opportunitys…we obviously cant rely on our defense to keep the game close, so lets put up some points on O, or at least try

by collyb on Oct 13, 2008 10:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Engram

I can’t believe that nobody has pointed out Engram’s dropped passes yesterday, sure one wouldve been a great catch, but it still hit his hands, and I recall at least two others the he flat out dropped.

Maybe he should quit whining about his contract and worry about playing?

I dont maybe I’m the only one who noticed?

by collyb on Oct 13, 2008 10:44 PM PDT   0 recs

Well I'll admit the whole age/health thing with Engram concerns me.

What doesn’t concern me is the team’s ability to replace him. Yeah, I’ll admit it. I’m somewhat of a Keary Colbert fan.

by BrianL on Oct 13, 2008 11:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Might have been gas.

Seriously though, I’m not worried about having to replace Engram if that becomes a necessity.

I also am interested in seeing how Keary pans out.

by BrianL on Oct 13, 2008 11:39 PM PDT to parent up   1 recs

I love the guy...

and don’t want to see him go…but I agree with you. While he has proven extremely reliable and sure handed over the years….he isn’t the fast receiver, nor does he run the best routes. He is certainly replacable.

Right now we don’t have a lot of sure handed receivers, but I think that will change very quickly. We will get Robinson and Keary involved…should be getting branch back (if his glass legs don’t break), and teach McMuffin how to run and be ready to an agressive hook route. And of course keep engram in rotation.

 I was be no means suggesting that we trade him, or even that I’m worried…I was just saying it was rare of him…

by collyb on Oct 13, 2008 11:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Why do I

have this odd sense that Seattle is going to win Sunday?

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on Oct 14, 2008 7:23 AM PDT   0 recs

What have you been smoking...

…And where can I get some?

Yeah, it’s certainly possible. Hell, the Browns knocked off the Giants on MNF. But I’d rate it as unlikely. They’re a better team, at home, and the ‘Hawks don’t have any good reason to believe they’re playing below their true talent level.

by robbbbbb on Oct 14, 2008 8:07 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe Seneca will start and shine.

Who knows. I’m not expecting it, though.

by redwolf75 on Oct 14, 2008 10:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

My fiancee and I will be in Tampa this weekend.

I hope our yells of encouragement will help.

Dick Dastardly and Muttley with sick laughter

by Wayward Llama on Oct 14, 2008 3:56 PM PDT   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed

Search

User Tools

Damn, Double Bastard is tasty.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Patspulpit_small
Q&A with Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan about 12 hours ago

1 comments | 0 recs

621hawks_calendar_37632_duckett_small
Spencer, Wahle likely headed to IR

by Wayward Llama 2 days ago

20 comments