Quick Cap: Tampa Bay 20 - Seattle 10

by John Morgan on Oct 19, 2008 8:25 PM PDT in Game Recap Comment 78 comments

When a unit adds talent, Josh Wilson, but regresses to become one of the worst secondaries in the NFL, it's only logical to focus criticism on that unit's coach. Unfortunately, that defies clean delineation. Seattle's secondary was awful in 2006. Part of its improvement in 2007 was the addition of that coordinator. So, if Seattle added talent, has no players at an age you would expect decline, has maintained a reasonable amount of pass rush and is still one of the best rush defenses in the NFL, what the fuck is going on?

The answer is so simple it could be crossed applied to any job across the world. When Seattle pre-promoted Jim L. Mora it took away all incentive and accountability. What more could he achieve? The head coaching job was his. How could he fail? He's not really the secondary coach anymore. He certainly isn't going to be fired.

His unit has dissolved. Seattle's secondary is simultaneously executing so poorly and aligned in such spellbindingly stupid and self-defeating formations, it's become a bit of a chicken or egg argument deciding what's ruining what. This coordinated failure is something miraculous and unexplainable but still somehow true like the simultaneous evolution of the egg and the egg tooth. Whichever is more to blame, it's both symptomatic of bad coaching.

And yet, I don't think this condemns Mora the head coach. No, this is on Paul Allen, Tod Leiweke and Tim Ruskell, who took a good business idea, naming a successor to ease transition, and mistakenly applied it to the world of cutthroat athletic competition. I was duped. It sounded smart. It's failed. The secondary is in ruins and the only solution I see is Mora assuming the head coaching duties and someone who gives a damn, someone with incentive and accountability, to become Seattle's secondary coach.

Game Ball: Brandon Mebane. My absolute favorite Seahawk. Kid is developing into a monster defensive tackle. Mebane is an important reminder that it's not the size of Seattle's defense that's killing them, it's the execution. Kelly Jennings could be ten feet tall, but the way he falls, he'd still suck. What the hell has happened to you Jennings?

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decent second half.

by michaelfox99 on Oct 19, 2008 8:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Only because the Bucs ran the ball.

by John Morgan on Oct 19, 2008 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm going to bed.

I work at 2am. As bad as this sucks, I’m still glad I stayed up. It was worth it just to watch Bane, Pistol, Forsett and Carlson.

by John Morgan on Oct 19, 2008 8:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Who's Pistol?

If life gives you lemons, keep the receipt

by Bramlet A. on Oct 19, 2008 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

wilson

by michaelfox99 on Oct 19, 2008 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh we were good against the run,

decent overall i thought for the second.

by michaelfox99 on Oct 19, 2008 8:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

So, are you saying

..that Mora isn’t trying as a db coach? There are criticisms I have heard about the man, but not trying hard as a coach is a new one on me.

Personally, I wouldn’t want a head coach who quit on his unit when he was an assistant. Ever.

by Hawkdawg on Oct 19, 2008 8:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Question for you John

Why don’t our DB’s ever get up on WR’s and bump/chuck them at the line of scrimmage to slow them up or bump them off their routes?

Can I buy you a fish sandwich?

by silkybrown on Oct 19, 2008 8:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

i was wondering this too, i saw GB do it with good success against IND

but it might be that the size of our CBs doesn’t allow it, but still, i also wonder about the large cushion WRs always get almost regardless of down

by SuperShadow on Oct 19, 2008 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cuz they don't want to get beat....

they they bite hard on a double move run for what should be an easy pick, and fall down.

by collyb on Oct 19, 2008 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i remember the broadcast booth saying something about how players come up to Mora

and ask what time practices will be next year. I don’t know if they were joking, but that kind of thing concerns me a bit. The players are already thinking of next year before this year is even close to over.

by SuperShadow on Oct 19, 2008 8:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

How bad could Hobbs be?

We might as well find out. He breaks on the ball better than any current DB, based on the preseason at least. I can’t understand Kelly Jennings. He should be having a breakout year…not this. It’s horrible to watch

by Hawqz on Oct 19, 2008 9:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

How did Wilson do in coverage today?

Didn’t notice him much.

by redwolf75 on Oct 19, 2008 9:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well he got totally beaten on the Bryant TD (although Bryant should have been called for Offensive PI).

And he seemed to be in the right place at the right time when Hilliard fumbled the ball. Other than that, I didn’t hear his name much.

"Hole in one, eh?"

by Coach Owens on Oct 20, 2008 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was that Jennings or Wilson on the PI call?

But that was crap either way. Bryant gained an advantage no matter how hard he pushed off… should’ve been called.

by PascoJoe on Oct 20, 2008 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jennings

by collyb on Oct 20, 2008 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Defense not bad considering the offense

Obviously the defense will never carry this team, at least under the current regime. However, I have never seen the offense look more pitiful during the Holmgren era. It it’s not Wahle with a holding penalty at a crucial moment of the game, it’s Seneca fumbling the ball after a monster return, or an interception after forcing TB three and out. You can’t do that to your defense and expect to win. Forget it.

These last few games have emphasized to us once again just how important Matt Hasselbeck is to the success of this team. The question you have to ask is, would there have been a decent chance of us winning if a healthy Matt Hasselbeck had played? The answer is definitively yes.

The next question becomes, now 1-5, with possibly Matt out more games, should we just shut the guy down for the rest of the season and get him 100% for ‘09? After all, history says that Matt seems to have a good year every other year. This is one of those ’off years’ for him. Let’s get all our WR’s back and Matt 100% and see what this team can do next season.

by kmedic on Oct 19, 2008 9:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, we still can see a silver lining.

The running game did exceptionally well, considering we had a nonexisting passing attack. And that total doesn’t even include that run by Duckett for 20+ yards that was called back.

Carlson continues to do well.

K-rob didn’t look too bad.

And all things considered, our defense didn’t do so badly, even with Lofa out. Actually, no, to be specific, our secondary was shit. Our RUN defense did great., however.

As was mentioned many times on the TV and in the game thread, Mebane had a great game.

by redwolf75 on Oct 19, 2008 10:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Just goes to show

That if we had a healthy Matt Hasselbeck, we could have easily won this game tonight. There were a lot more positives tonight than last week IMO. I agree with all your points, and I felt that the defense actually came ready to play for once on the road. I would also mention special teams- both Wilson and Forsett had some great returns. I actually wasn’t sure why Engram was put it in during the second half (Forsett got hurt?).

by kmedic on Oct 19, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I absolutely agree on Matt.

It looked like the WR’s were actually getting open today, and a healthy Matt would have made a world of difference in the game.

The defense did seem to play a lot better. For some reason they really hit hard against the Bucs, maybe it’s all those short passes into zones.

by djafrot on Oct 19, 2008 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But we didn't have Matt....

and another loss is another loss regardless of what could have been. More positives…but we made one of the worst offenses look great…again. And again zero production on offense outside of the run. We cant rely only on the run. Fuck…I cant take this much longer….I think we need coaching changes now, and sorry to say holmgren, your not getting that final note season you wanted so let mora step up and take over and get some spark out of these guys.

by collyb on Oct 19, 2008 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure how a coaching change would make any difference

at this point in the season. What would you do? Change the scheme? Change personnel? We can’t bring back Matt so how do you make a gimpy Wallace more effective? Put in Frye?

I also think it would be very disrespectful to Holmgren to tell him since the team sucks now and it’s his last season to beat it and let Mora take over.

by kmedic on Oct 19, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, Holmgren has done nothing but great things for the Hawks...

But I can’t help but worry that we have a split team right now, why would anyone do what Holmy’s saying when they know that Mora’s the one who really matters?

He obviously gave up on his current job of secondary coach, so let them at least share the job.

And John Marshall is not looking great to say the least as a D coordinator. Lets face it our soft zone isn’t working out for us, and our underaggressive secondary isn’t help the soft zone scheme. You cant try to tell me I am the only seattle fan who thinks that Marshall days may be coming to an end?

What changes would you make? Do you think we look stellar at all ends? I think we need to pull B. Russ and Jennings and send them packing. I’m not sure who thinks these guys need to stay…but I am shocked these guys are not contributing to Washingtons 6% plus unemployment rate…..

by collyb on Oct 19, 2008 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree on BRuss

I think promoting Adams or Wallace to SS and moving Grant to FS would be worth looking at. I also agree we should axe Marshall (I’ve been advocating this since ‘05) and promote Mora to D-coordinator and let him continue coaching the secondary as well. Marshall is shit and should have been fired in ’06. However, as long as Holmy is around I don’t see that happening since he is one of his boys. It definitely is frustrating right now for sure.

by kmedic on Oct 19, 2008 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So we are in agreement I guess...

Coaching changes are neccessary!

I pretty much agree with everything you just said…it would certainly be worth a look at the very least.

by collyb on Oct 19, 2008 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jennings is still a 1st round pick 2nd year starting Corner

who’s shown talen.

I agree he looks terrible right now, but we know it’s in him. Can’t just cut him in this situation. Bench him, yes. Cut, no.

Russell, however, is a different story.

by redwolf75 on Oct 19, 2008 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then lets bench him....

I know he is sharing time with J. Wil, but I never see J Wil, probably because the big plays aren’t being slashed on his face like a giant load…..Jennings on the other hand has given up more big plays then I can count this season, at what point do you say enough is enough?

And don’t get carried away I know Josh Wison has made his share of mistakes this season, just seems more reliable at this point

by collyb on Oct 19, 2008 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He has been benched.

He’s the nickelback now. And as bad as he’s been, Hobbs/Babs would be worse.

The only reason some think that Hobbs would be better than Jennings is that he’s looked good at some points in preseason/practice.

I think we’ve learned by now that neither directly translate over to the real thing.

by redwolf75 on Oct 19, 2008 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And we all Babs' coverage skills.

by redwolf75 on Oct 19, 2008 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

know*

by redwolf75 on Oct 19, 2008 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was he playing nickle when he tripped tonight?

…..and I did see a small shove on that play, but probably a good no call

by collyb on Oct 19, 2008 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree on the shove.

by PascoJoe on Oct 20, 2008 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So you think there should have been a call?

B/C I personally didn’t think it was enough for a call, he tripped over his own feet

by collyb on Oct 20, 2008 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There was contact,

He gained an advantage. It should have been a call.

There’s nothing in the rule that it has to be so hard to make the call.

He gained more of an advantage there with that little push than Jackson gained in the Superbowl.

by PascoJoe on Oct 20, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

it was pretty clearly a bump

and Holmgren thought it was too.

But of course, we haven’t had a call on a big play go our way all season. They take AWAY our big plays, and let other teams’ stand.

by djafrot on Oct 20, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Incidental contact"

does not normally involve an extended arm and the other guy falling down.

by PascoJoe on Oct 20, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its football...

It was minor, jennings tripped. There is going to be some contact, but they need to let the game be played. I understand the no call, I don’t understand why jennings keeps seeing the field

by collyb on Oct 20, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point. Really liked the special teams coverage, great returning by

Wilson and Forsett, not a bad job punting by Ryan, and I know Mare got at least 1 TB.

by redwolf75 on Oct 19, 2008 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

'Bane

by Misfit74 on Oct 19, 2008 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beast

by Misfit74 on Oct 19, 2008 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bryant got some playing time too

He tackles too high though IMO. Needs to get his center of gravity lower to be more effective. And what’s with the chest pounding after tackling a guy five yards from the LOS?

by kmedic on Oct 19, 2008 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

His first pro game though

I thought he looked pretty good, he’s a monster, work on some fundamentals and he should be promissing.

by collyb on Oct 19, 2008 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah.

John, what do you think of D.D. Lewis?

by redwolf75 on Oct 19, 2008 10:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think we have our offense to blame more than anything

All they do is three and out which puts a lot more pressure on the defense to keep us in the the game. In the first quarter our defense got a stop and what does out offense do? 3 and out! For all we know this is how our defense always was except now on the other side of the ball our offense is non-existent.

If life gives you lemons, keep the receipt

by Bramlet A. on Oct 19, 2008 10:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I like seneca a lot....

and he was completing passes, he just didn’t seem to have the confidence when he would look down field. Anything longer the 5 yards seemed to make him nervous.

by collyb on Oct 19, 2008 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

seneca

completing 3 yard passes. fantastic. tampa does have a good D, though.

by Misfit74 on Oct 19, 2008 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seneca

I expected much better play from Wallace. He panicked often and we failed to protect him like we needed to.

Let’s see: there is a cornerback at the end of the line without anyone to cover….what could he be doing there? Blitzing? Surely not. Ooops, yes. He was blitzing. Can’t believe we didn’t see that one coming. Welcome to sackland Mr. Buchanon.

by Misfit74 on Oct 19, 2008 11:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

We only missed once........

no twice….wait was it three times….shit I lost track after 5.

If I can see it coming and I’m only a drunken fan….I can’t imagine what I would pick up if I was trained and sober!

by collyb on Oct 19, 2008 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Wallace sucked. He played awful tonight and I expected a lot more from him. Was it Tampa’s defense or is he just starting to regress from ’06?

by kmedic on Oct 19, 2008 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, Seneca looked terrible. His pocket presence especially (or at least to me).

by redwolf75 on Oct 19, 2008 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes I can't tell if our pass protections is bad,

or he drops back too damn fast and deep, causing the pocket to collapse since the lineman don’t know where he is.

by LantermanC on Oct 20, 2008 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yuck again

It’s more than likely not a good day for the Seahawks when Engram gets one catch for eight yards. Seeing as to how he was blanked last week, he’s on pace for two catches next week.

Sports and Bremertonians. Because we can.

by wackomann on Oct 19, 2008 11:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Here's the big question

Will Mike Nolan play his 4-2 nickel against the Hawks with Wallace or Frye at QB? Sadly for the niners I think the answer is yes.

by MFAN on Oct 19, 2008 11:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Did Kent even play a snap?

He was active, but didn’t notice him at all.

by redwolf75 on Oct 19, 2008 11:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I never saw him out there,

Not sure if he was in at all, but almost positive he was never thrown to

by collyb on Oct 19, 2008 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I saw him in on one of the returns.

He didn’t do much though.

by PascoJoe on Oct 20, 2008 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, what do people think of just shutting down

Matt for the season? No sense in playing him now. Gotta’ make sure he’s healthy for next year, Seneca/Frye could always use the experience.

by redwolf75 on Oct 19, 2008 11:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm worried his career is over.....

It is a reoccuring back injury and from people I have talked to with the same injury it can be permanent, every after surgery there is often only a percentage of a full recovery possible.

I think they are completely down playing would could possibly be a completely immobilizing condition….a bit scary but he is 33 or 34 now? Not exactly prime recovery age….though he is no Warner yet either as far as age

by collyb on Oct 19, 2008 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He just turned 33.

by redwolf75 on Oct 19, 2008 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe one last kick at the can

They’ve got to draft a quarterback in the draft. Not sure how many of this current gaggle of receivers will be around either, so they’ve got to address that, and I’m not sure why they didn’t do it in the last draft.

Really, I think the only positions this team doesn’t need to worry about (at least at starter) are tight end, linebackers, the left side of the offensive line, quarterback, and Mebane.

In short, I think they have to draft to plan for the day Hasselbeck is gone and the day Walter Jones is gone.

…and an awesome pass rusher who can get to the quarterback since every team’s fans ask for that every year.

Sports and Bremertonians. Because we can.

by wackomann on Oct 20, 2008 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep, we definitely should go S/QB/OT with the first pick.

An Oher/Stafford/Mays.

by redwolf75 on Oct 20, 2008 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

if Russell is as terrible as advertised

we don’t need a 1st round-quality safety to do a lot better.

by Will Kier on Oct 20, 2008 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd hold off on drafting Michael Oher.

Walter Jones, 34, can likely handle the left tackle duties at a five-star level for two more seasons.

by AK1984 on Oct 20, 2008 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's about to turn 35, and has a bad shoulder.

Even more of a reason to draft a top flight tackle like Oher if Walt plays 1-2 more seasons.

Allows us to gradually transition him into our new LT.

by redwolf75 on Oct 20, 2008 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope by the first pick..

you mean first round, not first overall.

by PascoJoe on Oct 20, 2008 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

by redwolf75 on Oct 20, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Everyone in the secondary sucked.

Did you see this play?

1st and 10 at SEA 16 (8:10) J.Garcia pass short left to A.Bryant to SEA 2 for 14 yards (M.Trufant).

Trufant was in single coverage and Bryant juked him so badly that he literally turned around a complete 360 degrees like a goddam ballerina. Bryant looked effortless catching the ball and setting up the punch-in by Graham. The broadcasters were spot on in saying this guy is the best Seattle has to offer and he has been unable to keep his man from getting open and making catches in man-to-man coverage. This isn’t Moss or Owens or something these are average receivers…

It is incomprehensible that we would hand the team over to Mora when his unit, the secondary, is not only the worst on this team, but arguably the worst in the league. That is WITH a good run defense too… Some of that is every guy in that secondary has played poorly (even Trufant) but a lot of it is scheme as well. We are conceding everything from 0-15 yards, and getting burned much deeper occasionally.

Why the hell did Engram return a punt? Forsett was doing well..

I hope that Holmgren resigns so we can see that Mora brings to the table NOW and not need to suck through all of next year to learn that Mora coaches a football team like he coaches his secondary…

by michaelfox99 on Oct 20, 2008 5:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Engram returned the punt because Holmgren wanted to make sure it wasn't muffed so close to the end zone

Dick Dastardly and Muttley with sick laughter

by Wayward Llama on Oct 20, 2008 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Makes sense, I guess. Engram is less likely to return

it a good distance, but also less likely to muff the catch.

by redwolf75 on Oct 20, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's get real here.

That’s not gonna’ happen anytime soon.

by redwolf75 on Oct 20, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see how the secondary's success can be put directly on Mora.

The DB coach doesn’t decide what scheme to run. He can’t decide to blitz on 3rd-down and leave Jennings in single coverage. I doubt it is even up to him whether or not to jam receivers off the line. If you see specific technique flaws on the part of the DB’s, then that IS on the coach—and the player. If Mora has different ideas or philosophy from Marshall, he has to keep them to himself to avoid any appearance of stepping on toes as the Head Coach In Waiting.

My guess is that next Spring, Mora brings in a DC that complements his own philosophy and coaching style.

by lemonverbena on Oct 20, 2008 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure about that...

And yet, I don’t think this condemns Mora the head coach.

I mean, if you work at a normal company, and you’re boss is going to retire in the next year, your boss’s boss tells you you have the job next year, are you just all of a sudden going to be lazy and not do your job correctly? I think this definitely is on Mora a bit, and speaks to his sense of duty. Even if he have no ‘incentive’ to coach the secondary, it’s still his job and he should feel a responsibility to do so.

by LantermanC on Oct 20, 2008 8:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

your* boss

by LantermanC on Oct 20, 2008 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think they need to evaluate Marshall a little

and if they don’t expect to keep him on next year, give the defense to Mora now and see where things go from there.

by PascoJoe on Oct 20, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Mora is caught between jobs.

That’s why I don’t think it’s fair to attack him. His job as secondary coach, head coach to be is unprecedented. I’m sure there’s a lot going on we don’t know about. Not saying Mora is blameless, only that I don’t think we can be sure he’s a bad coach/quitting on his team.

by John Morgan on Oct 20, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs