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Around SBN: 2011 In Extreme Home Runs

The Tape: The Irreplaceable Julian Peterson

I haven't followed 49ers football, so I'll say my piece and then admit I don't know all the facts, but I can't get over the nigh-unilaterally positive response to Mike Singletary's diatribe. Calling out a player is a true last measure and one typically done with the utmost tact. When Vernon Davis man-slapped Brian Russell, it was with 49 seconds to go in the third, San Francisco down three touchdowns. Their win probability was 4%. After the penalty that dropped ~1%. The team went on to score, so maybe Davis fired his team up. Isn't that the pseudo-psychology we're used to?

Later, Singletary would say:

I'm from the old school. I believe this: I would rather play with 10 people and just get penalized all the way until we got to do something else, rather than play with 11 when I know that right now that person is not sold out to be a part of this team.

Old school is the neologistic phrase for the millennia old myth of a "Golden Age". It's BS. I digress. The important part is that Singletary accuses Davis of being "not sold out to be a part of this team." Would that be when he ran 70 yards to nearly tackle Josh Wilson to prevent a touchdown? When he accepted a blocking position -- and played it with fire and skill -- in Mike Martz's moronic offense? Or when he busted his ass for two and half years for some of the worst offenses in the NFL? Davis presented an easy scapegoat. Singletary passed blame, a blame a good leader shoulders, on one of his least deserving players. The media might eat that shit up, but I see nothing noble in Singletary's actions.

Cut Julian Peterson: Whenever I mention that Seattle should sincerely consider whether to re-sign Leroy Hill, someone mentions cutting Julian Peterson. The idea is so preposterous I refuse to even respond. Peterson, just thirty and in phenomenal shape, is one of a handful of truly irreplaceable players on Seattle's roster. As a Seahawk, he's yet to miss a game. His contributions are incredibly steady, 10 sacks, 80 tackles, a handful of forced fumbles and a pick or two. Not to mention he's Seattle's second best defensive end. Peterson is the kind of talent that never, ever escapes the first round. He's the insane athlete made good. He gives Seattle scheme versatility and bottled pass rush. He ran around Joe Staley and forced a fumble with Dwight Freeney-like speed and precision.

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Leroy Hill is a typical, albeit very good linebacker. He tackles downhill and is a quick blitzer. The NFL is overflowing with players of Hill's ilk. He's a younger, quicker Kawika Mitchell. Hill can't play defensive end and can't compare to Peterson against the pass. Fans love tackles, but against the pass, tackles are often bad. Here's the two's total pass plays for the season. S=Successful U=Unsuccessful

  • Peterson: 0U, 5FD, 4U, 9FD, -13U, 15FD, 27FD, -9FF, 8S, 9S, 5FD, -3FF, 0U, 4U, 7U, 4U, -9FF, 5U, 4S

Plays: 19

First Downs: 5 (Including two penalties)

Success%: 42

Sacks: 4

Forced Fumbles: 3

  • Hill: 4U, 11FD, 0, 3U, -2U, 1U, -10U, 12FD, -5U, 22FD, 7FD, 9FD, 4U, 0U, 2U, 7S, 12S, 4FF, 9FD, 6S, -10U, 6U, 19FD, 10FD, 4S, 8FD, 6U, 4U, 10FD, 14FD, 7S

Plays: 31

First Downs: 11

Success%: 52%

Sacks: 0

Forced Fumbles:0

Teams have fearlessly targeted Hill. He gets some chase down tackles after blowing coverage, but not always. Hill's only real strength in coverage is screen and outlet passes to the backs. Plays he can run downhill and blow someone up. He's not picking up playing the zone, and I don't think he will. When the time comes, Seattle can find another Leroy Hill. Without much trouble, they can find a reasonable comp run-stopper that's much better in coverage. There's no player in the NFL that can match Peterson's combined abilities as a run stopper, pass rusher and coverage backer. Opportunity for Opportunity, he might be the  best pass rusher in the NFL. Signing Peterson is among Tim Ruskell's finest moves. Instead of accusing him of disappearing or dogging him for being fantastic rather than godlike, Seahawks fans should recognize that Julian Peterson may be the best linebacker in football.

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Rico McCoy

as a legitimate replacement for Hill in 3rd round?

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on Oct 27, 2008 2:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Weaver vs. Hill

who would you tag?

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on Oct 27, 2008 3:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Weaver would be cheaper to tag

The tag salary is based on the salary of the five highest paid players at the position. Last year for LB, that was in the $6 million range, if I recall correctly. Hill may not be worth that. I don’t know what the average salary for the five highest paid fullbacks in the league is, but it is almost certainly relatively quite low.

by UW Alex on Oct 27, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm a Mets fan...

and Peterson is the black, football-playing version of Carlos Beltran; one of a literal handful of 5-tool players who puts it together an undeniably marvelous season every single year. He makes it look too easy and people just take it for granted because they can think of five different guys who do one thing just as well or slightly better without stopping to consider the advantage of getting all that in one guy.

In virtually every sport many people have difficulty developing an appreciation for a true all-around player. They prefer the one-trick pony, like Ryan Howard. (I like Howard, but he does one and only one thing well.)

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Oct 27, 2008 3:26 PM PDT reply actions  

And one thing that people miss is a player like Ware...

(said one-trick pony) is pass rushing nearly every passing down. Peterson rushes on what, half? A third?

by John Morgan on Oct 27, 2008 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

what difference does it make...

that he is the “black” version… why not just focus on the 5-tool aspect. I just hate color being added into it. Aren’t we past that?

You really think I'll become a bronco fan if I live in Denver long enough? Why, when it is so much fun watching your team suck and mine rock!!!

by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 28, 2008 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is way too PC

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Oct 28, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

the difference is that he's different than carlos beltran

that is all.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Oct 28, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank you,

The JP bashing I hear from fans surrounding me on gameday leaves me so utterly sickened and dumbfounded, that I can’t even formulate a logical response to defend him.

I’m tempted to print this out and distribute it to my Section before the Eagles game.

by jteckmann on Oct 27, 2008 3:52 PM PDT reply actions  

Any particular reason why?

I’m just trying to understand why Kerney is at a major risk of injury and decline and Peterson isn’t.

by Nate Dogg on Oct 27, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Recent injury history.

And the fact that Kerney is in good shape but isn’t an otherworldly athlete. Peterson is very rare.

by John Morgan on Oct 27, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's does seem to have that Darryl Green...

age-defying something or other.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Oct 28, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Anyone mind explaining to me what Singletary meant by the first part of his quote?

“I would rather play with 10 people and just get penalized all the way until we got to do something else…”

If life gives you lemons, keep the receipt

by Bramlet A. on Oct 27, 2008 8:46 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh wait I got it

Seems I’ve been over thinking it

If life gives you lemons, keep the receipt

by Bramlet A. on Oct 27, 2008 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree on Davis

Davis made a dumb move with Russell. But I didn’t see a lack of effort or sacrifice for the team, otherwise. To the contrary, he hustled his ass off on that play to catch Wilson.

On the one hand, Singletary says during his conference that what he speaks about to his team in the locker room is between him and the team. But he thinks it’s ok to share the details of reaming Davis with the world?

Dude needs to calm down and THINK before he goes off on a player like that.

by Hawkdawg on Oct 27, 2008 10:04 PM PDT reply actions  

I also agree wholeheartedly...

Davis almost caught one of the fastest players in the game from behind, and Wilson had a head start.

Singletary was just embarrassed, and tried to pass it off on Davis.

Weak, weak, stuff.

by djafrot on Oct 28, 2008 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Let's be honest though...

We don’t know what has been happening behind the scenes.

We do know this— Vernon Davis is one of the greatest athletes to have ever lived— check his combine numbers. And yet, he is a below average TE in most phases of the game. Why is this? Has this been an ongoing problem that, much like Plax this year, we are finally hearing a more full picture of what those who know the locker room have to deal with on a daily basis.

Maybe Singletary just blew his top inappropriately. Or maybe someone on the Niners finally called out one of their most talented though non-performing, off the field issue having players.

You really think I'll become a bronco fan if I live in Denver long enough? Why, when it is so much fun watching your team suck and mine rock!!!

by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 28, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

if it's behind the scenes then it should stay behind the scenes

For Singletary to, uh, “single” Davis out for the world to hear is pointless and smacks of “I just coached my first game and got my ass whipped, time to pull a Denny Green-ish funny quote and get some noteriety on TV”.

by djafrot on Oct 28, 2008 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Considering how Davis handled it

I wouldn’t compare the situation to plaxico. Davis even went as far as to say that Singletary was right in what he did just to not rock the boat. That takes alot to be thrown to the wolves and torn to shit, then not say anything other than “I made a dumb mistake, coach was right in what he did”.

by vanrijn on Oct 29, 2008 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

About Singletary

I think to imply that Singletary is passing the burden of responsibility for the loss it a presumptive stretch, at best.

Based on what I read, Singletary was about as pissed about the penalty as any coach would be but what set him off was nonchalant way that Davis came to sideline and his behavior afterward. Basically, Davis was acting like he didn’t give a shit and Singletary – a never say die competitor – told him to hit the showers.

What Davis did showed a general lack of mental discipline, the kind that runs rampant in losing organizations across all sports; he then compounded it with a bad attitude about his own mental mistake, the kind of bad attitude that also runs rampant in losing organizations. If Vernon Davis is NOT one of the guys that’s at the heart of this kind of team problem (i.e. if this was an isolated incident) than he will respect Singletary’s resolve and commit to thinking before HE acts next time as will all the real team players on the Niners. And his talent be damned. Pro football players are, in my opinion, not unlike children; they may hate their parents for disciplining them, but they will respect them; fail to discipline them and they’ll suffer for it. I have no idea about his ability to scheme, but if the Niners shut their collective pie-holes long enough to learn to play the game the way Singletary espouses they will be better players and a better team.

What blows me away is the number of people that are against Singletary on this. I, for one, would have nothing but respect for my head coach for doing something like this. It shows that people are going to be held accountable for their actions with an emphasis on playing the game the right way as opposed to this all balls-and-emotion-me-first-you’re-gonna-give-me-my-respek sickness that’s infected the game. In short, the game needs way more Hines Ward and a whole lot less Chad Johnson.

Many of today’s most prolific players wouldn’t know professionalism (as it applies to pro sports) if it came up and bit them on the ass.

by Azimeir on Oct 28, 2008 2:06 AM PDT reply actions  

nonchalant?

Dude. When you make a dumb penalty, the best reaction is no reaction. How are you so sure Davis was acting like he didn’t give a sh*t? You want him to make a big scene? Does that help? Or should he go and apologize to his team and fans during the game? What are you talking about? Davis deserved to be benched, at most. Being sent in to the showers embarrasses him and embarrasses the team more than the penalty had…

punishment doesn’t fit the crime.

Last time I checked Hines Ward doesn’t chew out his teammates to the media.

by michaelfox99 on Oct 28, 2008 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Last time I checked...

Hines Ward has a free pass from the media because he appears to “play the game the right way” but talk to most players across the league, particularly defensive ones, and you will see he is one of the dirtiest cheap shot artists around.

If he was a defensive player, he would have a massive label attached to everything he does, and it wouldn’t be a good label.

You really think I'll become a bronco fan if I live in Denver long enough? Why, when it is so much fun watching your team suck and mine rock!!!

by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 28, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hines Ward

I’ve never seen the guy take cheapshots, but hard, legal, clock-cleaning (and for defenders embarrassing) hits. If I was a WR coach I would coach ever WR to play the way Ward plays. He doesn’t get a pass from me, I’ve just watched him play and that’s my opinion.

Most WR are too pussy to play as hard as he does because they are so often in a position to receive retribution at the hands of defensive players. That’s why I respect him.

by Azimeir on Oct 28, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Oh, nm. Looked up Misogyny, realized I thought you were saying misogamy. Almost made myself look like an idiot.

by cashless on Oct 28, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whatever...

If your delicate sensibilities are somehow hurt by that choice of words how about I replace it with “afraid”? The statement still holds true, even if the world has decided to become so PC as to feign ignorance as to the meaning of a common term.

by Azimeir on Oct 28, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I never said I was sure of anything

I merely said that was Singletary’s interpretation of events. Based on what I had read about the event, Singletary didn’t toss him because of the penalty but his reaction to the penalty.

I said the NFL needs MORE player like Hines Ward so… are you agreeing with me…?

by Azimeir on Oct 28, 2008 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree with your stance on Davis too John

Davis got flagged for an idiotic penalty, and when Singletary went to chew him out over it, Davis said “You don’t wanna be talking to me now”(reported on PFT and Yahoo). Singletary has spent years watching Mike Nolan run the team with a complete lack of discipline and leadership, and respect so it makes sense to make an example out of Davis. If anyone, even proven veterans, on the Seahawks made a comment like that to Mike Holmgren they’re ass would be kicked out straight away. So a rookie head coach, with a hard-nosed history as an 85 Bear, should damn well go in there and kick some ass, that’s why they gave him the job

by ciarannh on Oct 28, 2008 9:43 AM PDT reply actions  

Do you have any proof of this?
If anyone, even proven veterans, on the Seahawks made a comment like that to Mike Holmgren they’re ass would be kicked out straight away.

I’ve never seen Holmgren kick anyone off the field, and I’m sure he’s dealt with angry players. Holmgren is humble. Despite being hamstrung by Frye and Wallace, Holmgren took blame for losses against Green Bay and Tampa. That’s class. That’s leadership. For all the people who are cheering Singletary’s outburst, ask yourself, is that the boss you want?

by John Morgan on Oct 28, 2008 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

In the NFL?

Yes. Singletary is not passing the buck; where’s your evidence that he’s blaming the loss on Davis?

Whether or not Holmgren would send a guy to showers for this statement (“you don’t want to be talking to me right now”) is really irrelevent; either you think that he should or you think that he shouldn’t. Your coach is your coach; you don’t tell him what to do ala Terrell Owens “you don’t talk to me unless I talk to you” (to the Philly O-coordinator). If the team doesn’t function under a coach > player dynamic, it doesn’t function.

by Azimeir on Oct 28, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why is Singletary

not taking the blame for the interception at the end of the half? What an idiotic play call, since Holmgren was going to let them run the clock down and kick a field goal. What does Singletary do? Call a time-out on fourth down and go for it…. Maybe it was a Martz call, but the head coach needs to be smart about it. It seems like Singletary’s rant has done a good job of focusing the attention elsewhere.

by m_b on Oct 28, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Did any 'reporter' ask Singletary about it?

Singletary said that the interception at the end of the half was Davis’ fault?

by Azimeir on Oct 28, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Depends on who you are

He’s not the boss you want if you’re Davis, that’s for sure. But if you’re a team mate and Davis has been a problem child then Singletary might be your guy. I think this was as much about the other players on the team as it was about Davis.

There have been several reports since last year about Davis questioning the coaches decision making. And sure, he’s probably right, but that doesn’t make calling them out ok. (To be fair to Davis, he’s had his fair share of hard worker reports too.)

I don’t think kicking Davis off the field was the right decision, but I think there was definitely more to this than just a penalty. If I had to guess I’d say that Davis had been on Singletary’s list for a while and he jumped at his first chance to do something about it.

by Nate Dogg on Oct 28, 2008 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Check the link below.

Singletary says himself that Davis is not a problem. It’s in direct contradiction to his statements during the press conference:

"Vernon just….It was something that I told everybody at the very beginning of the week: I will not tolerate players that think it’s about them when it’s about the team. And we cannot make…we cannot make decisions that cost the team and then come off [to] the sideline and it’s nonchalant. No. You know what? This is how I believe. I’m from the old school. I believe this: I would rather play with 10 people and just get penalized all the way until we got to do something else, rather than play with 11 when I know that right now that person is not sold out to be a part of this team.

It is more about them than it is about the team. Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can’t do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win. Go ahead . . . I told him that he would do a better job for us right now taking a shower and coming back and watching the game than going out on the field. Simple as that."

I think Singletary has a temper, and it doesn’t have to be directed at me to know that’s not the quality of a good leader.

by John Morgan on Oct 28, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Criticize privately, praise publically..

Singletary must have not taken management 101 at Baylor.

by michaelfox99 on Oct 28, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

The thing is...

You’re pretending like the laws of normal business interaction work with filthy rich celebrity atheletes. I don’t think that they do.

by Azimeir on Oct 28, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't really disagree with you

but there are two sides in this story and Davis certainly isn’t innocent in the whole thing.

by Nate Dogg on Oct 28, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Got the quote wrong

Or, actually, got it right, but backwards. Davis tried to talk to Singletary afterwards in the locker room., and Singletary told him “you don’t want to be talking to me right now…” We know this because Singletary chose to share that with the world as well.

In any event, either you keep stuff like this confidential, between you and the team, or you don’t. But you don’t claim confidentiality when it suits, and forget that confidentiality when you are pissed. And you don’t scapegoat a player who actually made the best effort play on your team in the whole game for not “wanting to win”. Hogwash. I saw no evidence whatsoever he “didn’tt want to win” in that game. There IS evidence that he needs to use his head more. It’s a failing he apparently now shares with his coach.

It sucks to lose. How you deal with that loss as a coach needs to be different from how your players deal with it. Singletary has yet to make the transition.

by Hawkdawg on Oct 28, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

BINGO

You called it, Dawg (you the poster now, Dawg…. sorry).

by djafrot on Oct 28, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

n/s

“Mike Nolan run the team with a complete lack of discipline and leadership”

I actually have to disagree with this. Nolan had a rep for being passive, but just 3 weeks ago he removed Davis from a game after celebrating a catch down by 21. Nolan also got rid of players like Brandon Lloyd and Jaime Winbourne(sp?) because he didn’t believe they had the right character for the team.

If Nolan did what Singletary did niner fans would of been calling for his head(not that they weren’t already).

by MFAN on Oct 28, 2008 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not sure Peterson is great in coverage

I’ve seen the guy get burned a few times. Just a few weeks ago I remember him specifically getting burned by, of all people, Jerramy Stevens…..twice, on third down.

Yeah, maybe a lot of LB’s wouldn’t have been able to cover Stevens on those plays, but you make it sound like Peterson is all-World.

by kmedic on Oct 28, 2008 10:50 PM PDT reply actions  

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