Seattle's Accursed Season Never Ending: The Draft
Seattle is 2-10. If it wins out - it won't - it could scrape to achieve 6-10. Realistically, Seattle will finish the season 3-13 or 4-12. Scanning the contenders, Seattle should draft as early as third and definitely within the top five. That certainly excites some. Maybe it shouldn't.
The first ten picks demand some of the highest salaries in the NFL. That burdens the worst teams in the NFL in two ways. A bust is a disaster. The contract forces teams to start unworthy players and often at keystone positions. Top ten picks must also be sufficiently better to justify their salary. That requires scouting accuracy I've yet seen.
There's an exception to this theory. Marquee players at positions that don't fall, mostly offensive tackle and quarterback, are typically very scarce past the top fifteen. Seattle needs both. So how should Seattle negotiate this draft: Target the best available tackle or quarterback, undertake a huge salary, but potentially draft that Walter Jones or Peyton Manning to build their franchise around? Or aggressively trade down, even accepting bargains, and stockpile cheaper picks while retaining cap flexibility?
Comments
What worries me
is the history of our offensive draft picks. We’ve done alright on the D side, but the fact that we could end up picking a Gosder Cherilous (sp) or Robert Gallery terrifies me.
Dick Dastardly and Muttley with sick laughter
by Wayward Llama on Nov 28, 2008 8:58 AM PST 0 recs
offensive tackle!
one thing I’d like to know is whether scouting o-line talent is more accurate than skill position talent.
with skill positions it feels like the odds of a bust int he top 10 are as high as 50-50? but that could be selection bias. But what about with linemen? is it easier to tell who will make a good offensive tackle?
If it is, then I would be really happy to see this team pickup the top o-line prospect out of the draft.
by Snuffleupagus on Nov 28, 2008 9:04 AM PST 0 recs
I also worry about
Ruskell’s annoying fascination with the defense. Last draft was a good example of him picking a D player round 1 instead of focusing on our real needs.
Dick Dastardly and Muttley with sick laughter
by Wayward Llama on Nov 28, 2008 9:13 AM PST 0 recs
Sure, but you can't ignore glaring needs on one side of the ball and
use draft picks on positions we’re set at. Plus, Lawrence Jackson isn’t exactly a monster.
Dick Dastardly and Muttley with sick laughter
by Wayward Llama on
Nov 29, 2008 5:13 PM PST
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Depth at one of the most oft-injured positions in football with a player who could become a Pro-Bowler?
That’s bad.
by Coach Owens on
Nov 29, 2008 9:53 PM PST
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LoJack has been playing terrible most of this season
by aerozeppelin on
Nov 29, 2008 10:28 PM PST
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But he has the talent to be a Pro-Bowler.
Do you doubt that?
by Coach Owens on
Nov 29, 2008 10:38 PM PST
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I would be much happier
with two picks in the 12-20 range (although that would be difficult to achieve). Clearly everyone would be happy with Crabtree or Oher, but the salaries are prohibitive. Jamarcus Russell as the 2nd highest paid QB in the league is insane. Hope for a Flacco + Ryan Clady type draft instead of opening up the vault and going wild.
Can't wait for Ruskell to knock this one out of the park.
by abender20 on Nov 28, 2008 9:30 AM PST 0 recs
my understanding on trading down...
is that it has become very difficult for teams to get the value in trade down picks comparative to, for example, Jimmy Johnson in the Dallas heyday.
Because of the issues with salary and “bustability” top picks just don’t net as much in return.
I say get the best player available, regardless of position, and work out from there.
You really think I'll become a bronco fan if I live in Denver long enough? Why, when it is so much fun watching your team suck and mine rock!!!
by whiskey chainsaw on Nov 28, 2008 10:01 AM PST 0 recs
Walter Jones is older than he ever has been
And now he’s even older.
As long as Seattle drafts a tackle in the first round, I’m happy.
by katal on Nov 28, 2008 10:33 AM PST 0 recs
I'm pretty sure Bowflex advertises that you'll feel 20 years younger.
And that’s got to count for something, right?
by LantermanC on
Dec 1, 2008 11:28 AM PST
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Jones decline
I think a lot depends on WJ’s expected aging curve. If you think he’s basically going to fall off a cliff next year, a top-five OT seems like a good plan. But if you think he’s got 2-3 more years at a passable (i.e. league-average) level left in him, then paying top-five $$$ to a stud OT to sit on the bench for that time probably isn’t the best use of resources.
The same goes for Hasselbeck; if you think he’s done, they should target a QB. But if he can still be decent for a couple of years, if you draft a QB at the top of the draft you’ll have to choose between paying him a pile of money to wear a headset, or cutting a potentially still-useful player loose.
by cyberwulf on Nov 28, 2008 10:48 AM PST 0 recs
Both good points
When I look at this team, I don’t see any immediate gaps that need to be filled(besides at safety). And because of that, getting a high pick QB or LT does seem like a waste for the first couple of years.
I’m 99.99% sure they won’t pick a QB on the first day this draft, so that leaves LT. Maybe we could start the kid at RT and somehow get rid of Locklear…
I’m pretty excited for what the management decides to do.
by myx on
Nov 28, 2008 11:01 AM PST
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you may not have to get RID of Locklear
since he’s supposedly a better guard. Draft a tackle, throw him in at RT, move Lock inside. When Walt goes, move the “kid” to LT.
I would also be seriously surprised if we draft a QB in the first.
by djafrot on
Nov 28, 2008 11:08 AM PST
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If you grabbed a tackle
You could go Jones-Locklear-Spencer-Willis/Sims-Rookie
The two questions I have are:
Will Wahle be back next year?
Which LT prospects will be there at the top of the draft?
by PascoJoe on
Nov 28, 2008 11:37 AM PST
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by PascoJoe on
Nov 28, 2008 11:43 AM PST
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http://www.fieldgulls.com/2008/11/17/663812/open-thread-in-which-we-le
Trying to get this link to work.
by PascoJoe on
Nov 28, 2008 11:44 AM PST
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i don't care which draft strategy...
so long as seattle drafts some play makers and difference makers. no more trying to go cheap by picking up the small/slow but gritty gamers. get players that are prototypical or better yet freaks of nature so that we don’t have to watch a team full of try hard midgets get stomped by the burly men of the nfl every week.
seattle right now is a bunch of poseurs, they need to be able to impose their will on the other team some times.
by bitterguy on Nov 28, 2008 11:39 AM PST 0 recs
i disagree
i don’t think Ruskell’s strategy ever has been “to go cheap by picking up the small/slow but gritty gamers.” I think he drafts talent where he sees it, and often does very well. would you prefer we had not drafted the ‘small/slow gritty gamers’ of Lofa Tatupu and Jon Carlson?
GMs gotta trust their draft board. I would rather have a college player with a proven track record against legitimate opposition who tests out decently than a workout wonder who dominates the combine but not the playing field.
by cro-mag! on
Nov 28, 2008 6:47 PM PST
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do you see any connection between those two?
ruskell traded up to get them. usually he trades down to try to get “value” for his picks, and we wind up with kelly jennings, lawrence jackson, darrell tapp, jeb huckeba or cornelius wortham.
and btw, lofa is not as good a player as you think he is. he’s small, slow and can’t get off a block. he’s a gritty, smart, try hard player. the difference between him and brian russell is that russell is older and whiter.
by bitterguy on
Nov 30, 2008 3:57 PM PST
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So...
Ruskell sucks because he trades down for cheap picks but John Carlson doesn’t count because he traded up to get him?
by BrianL on
Nov 30, 2008 5:47 PM PST
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the sun shines on every dogs ass once in a while.
if ruskell sucks it’s because he doesn’t draft enough players that are able to impose their will on the other team. a team full of good players that are also physically disadvantaged is not a good team.
by bitterguy on
Dec 1, 2008 3:39 PM PST
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Elite OT prospects
seem to be pretty safe within the last couple drafts (Thomas, Long, Clady)
So I think we go with Andre Smith, Michael Oher or Eugene Monroe if any of those 3 are available with our pick. Smith and Oher both have the ability to start at RG immediately if needed.
If we can’t get one of the top OT prospects I then see us trading down into value range for Duke Robinson.
For us the value in the 1st round is at OLine (Smith, Oher, Monroe, Robinson)
The value in the early 2nd is at WR ( Kenny Britt, Derrick Williams, Juaquin Iglesias and possibly Percy Harvin, Jeremy Maclin and Darrius Hayward-Bey if they slide)
The value in the early 3rd is at S ( Patrick Chung, Kevin Ellison, Nic Harris, Derek Pegues, Rashad Johnson, David Bruton, Courtney Greene, Michael Hamlin)
by puerto on Nov 28, 2008 1:16 PM PST 0 recs
I agree
And would love to see a draft play out in that fashion.
But I think that in the second round if we’re on the board and a Myron Rolle is available (hoping he slides out of the first round), he’d be tough to pass up. I’m just very wary of the idea of using day one picks on WR’s because they’re so hit or miss.
by Right on
Nov 28, 2008 2:36 PM PST
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Do you really want to draft Rolle
considering that he will miss an entire year of football? From everything I’ve read, he is a great human being, but you want someone who can come in and play right away.
Can't wait for Ruskell to knock this one out of the park.
by abender20 on
Nov 28, 2008 3:06 PM PST
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I agree
It’s not like Rolle is even playing at an elite level now. I’d hate to draft a guy based on talent (and less production than other safeties) and who is missing a year of football with a second-rounder (at worst, because I doubt he’ll go later).
by SeaTownBlueDevil on
Nov 28, 2008 4:05 PM PST
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Yes
He’ll only miss a year if he actually gets the scholarship. He’s only been nominated so far. If he doesn’t get it, then he’s the type of player that any team would love to have, in every conceivable way.
by Right on
Nov 29, 2008 2:56 PM PST
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Rolle was awarded the Rhodes Scholarship last Saturday
The award is for two years with a possible third and must be taken immediately. A scholar can take it for one year, but there’s no guarantee Rolle will. I like the kid a lot, but it’s a serious consideration. He won’t play competitive football for a least a year. At a time when he should be developing NFL skills, he will be studying medical anthropology at Oxford. Honestly, the kid might have a brighter future than the NFL.
by John Morgan on
Nov 29, 2008 3:40 PM PST
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A Rhodes Scholarship? Well, go Rolle!
I hope he has fun at Oxford. That’s a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and he’d be crazy to pass it up for football instead.
Every day I hear about Seattle sports' failures. Every night I fall asleep to the sound of my own tears.
by Benne on
Nov 29, 2008 8:13 PM PST
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Regardless
The point is that if at any point in the draft the Seahawks see a guy with his talent at safety, they have to take him. It’s going to be tough on them to pass on Taylor Mays when he measures out at 6-4 230 and runs a 4.3 40, especially considering he’s a local product.
by Right on
Dec 1, 2008 1:14 AM PST
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Michael Oher!
This guy is a monster. He may cost a fortune, but he’s the closest we can ever get in replacing Walter Jones.
Not to mention, the kid carries an inspirational story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FhlbsJUJ9Q
by aerozeppelin on Nov 28, 2008 2:32 PM PST 0 recs
Great story.
Love to see him in Seahawk blue.
Of course, I hope he’s the real deal.
Dick Dastardly and Muttley with sick laughter
by Wayward Llama on
Nov 29, 2008 8:11 AM PST
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Keeping the pick vs trading down...
is really a function of what’s on the board. We still don’t know who is coming out right now; nor who we will target in free agency; nor do we know what teams like Detroit, Cincy, and KC will be looking to do in the draft.
Assuming a top five pick, I’m not all that enamored with any of the QBs coming out this year—at least not for top 5 scratch. (If Bradford comes out I might re-think that.) We have an opportunity to add a potentially great offensive lineman. I want one. I also think trading down will be difficult if the reason for doing so is that we can’t get one of the elite tackles.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Nov 28, 2008 6:03 PM PST 0 recs
Crabtree
The only position in the top 10 I can see immediately contributing greatly to the team would be WR. Most mocks have Stafford and Bradford going in the top 5-8 and Smith going in the top 5. I just don’t see the value in paying a rookie and butt load of money to sit behind a franchise player. Even if that player is in the decline he will likely offer more to the team then a rookie can.
by Hancock.Brett on Nov 28, 2008 10:24 PM PST 0 recs
of course, this is all speculation
because Ruskell will attempt to sew up our “obvious” needs with free agent signings before the draft even begins.
AND
we may see some real surprise cuts.
by djafrot on Nov 28, 2008 11:00 PM PST 0 recs
we alwasys seem to see those dont we?
2/3 of the world is covered by water. The rest is covered by Marcus Trufant.
by Chickadee on
Dec 1, 2008 12:21 AM PST
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on QBs
i think the importance of marginal value can be dramatically overstated when talking about the top of the draft, at least as it regards premium positions like QB; it’s basically impossible to overpay for a franchise QB (if they’re actually a franchise QB), in that it’s the position where getting the highest possible level of play supercedes pretty much any cost consideration. and it’s also – well, it’s not impossible at all, but it’s rare for a single contract to be an albatross on the level that it can cripple a team. but these are kind of general statements, and it’s still a context-dependent decision; i was drinking the matt ryan kool-aid by draft time because the closer you looked at him, the more it was made clear that he was a very special prospect. which isn’t to say that I anticipated him being so good so soon, just that I saw him as an average-to-above-average QB a few years down the road. but take him out of the picture – if henne and flacco and brohm are the best QBs in the draft, then suddenly i’m a lot less gung-ho about ‘best available QB’ as a drafting truism.
by langsty on Nov 29, 2008 5:49 AM PST 0 recs
Trading down is better if you are after a player who is sure to be there later in the draft.
Recently, QBs beyond the #1 overall-type guy have been the trade-down targets that have had some predictability. Rodgers and Rivers both come to mind there, as well as Quinn and Henne. There seems to be an fairly accurate league-wide gauge of where those players may go and therefore the ability to trade down and still get the player without affording a ton of risk. Henne last year at QB it felt like you could just see Miami getting him at some point later in the draft after skipping the QB in the first round that they surely needed.
While it is true that sometimes true franchise type LTs can be found as gems later in drafts, the surefire types (as mentioned above) like Thomas or Long are still few and far between. Again, after that first consensus OT, there is again a crapshoot in a lot of ways. Look at guys drafted as the 2nd OT off the board in recent drafts that have not exactly been pro-bowl studs (round.overall selection, year): Shawn Andrews 1.16 in 04, Alex Barron 1.19 in 05, and Winston Justice 2.39 (remember his turnstile 6-sacks allowed game). I’m just saying that there may be some ‘safe bet’ tackles available to us, but it’s no sure thing. The safe, solid OT choice with an early first rounder would be hard to argue with. Trading down to get an OT is not usually something we see. Teams value them so much they trade up to get them. CAR traded a first, second, and fourth in next year’s draft to get back into the first this past year’s draft and grab OT Jeff Otah at 1.19.
What do I think we should do? It seem obvious that Ruskell’s MO is to trade down if he can, but the likelihood of trading out of one of those top spots usually isn’t very good. Teams don’t like the salary/cap implications and expectation of immediate production from such a player drafted that high. Tim will likely try and not succeed in doing so, at least that would be my guess. If that holds true, then who do we take in the top 5? It’s hard to tell this early as player value is still fluid to such a degree it makes deciding who the top several guys at a position truly are at the NFL level. Some guys come out of seemingly nowhere to have tremendous value.
One thing I liked about following Matt Ryan’s pre-draft info and now his translation into the pro’s is that he was able to do more with less as a college QB. He had great success without the big-time supporting cast that other players did. Jamarcus Russell may have been drafted as high as he was because he played among so many highly talented players and enjoyed success that had a lot to do with that. Ryan had an average set of skill players to throw to and play amongst. This tale makes me wonder about the soundness of drafting a QB from a big time college program who benefits from great players – their value may be harder to hit a home run on. Maybe there is a Jay Cutler type that can be found past round 1.
I’d still have to think we go OT in round one, but that may not be my preference.
Maybe a tall, dominant corner? I would like us to draft an explosive playmaker. I would not be opposed to a first round RB, either. That is probably a pipe-dream, but I would love a hang-your-hat-on-me back like Wells. I would be in favor of drafting a guy like CJ Spiller: a Chris Johnson type with good hands at some point, too. Maybe Maclin will be available in round 2? I would love the selection of Crabtree, but we certainly aren’t likely to draft a WR in the first round. We haven’t since Galloway and that was pre-Ruskell.
by Misfit74 on Nov 29, 2008 3:37 PM PST 0 recs
OT
personally I’d be really unhappy to see a first round RB. A RB is dependent first and foremost on his offensive line and it seems like the emergence of the sensible RB by committee that makes the marquee top paid RB not necessary for a top notch offense.
A team is built around the line. I think if this team fails to draft an OT it will put the Hawks behind in building this team.
by Snuffleupagus on
Nov 29, 2008 8:08 PM PST
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Patrick Chung, Safety, Oregon.
Seahawks Round #2 Draft Pick, 2009.
by Hawkfan_77 on Nov 29, 2008 4:43 PM PST 0 recs
I would say..
It all depends on the board when we are on the clock. Another good point was made above that we will likely address our biggest needs through FA so we won’t need to reach in the draft.
I was wondering whether we would go after Derek Anderson, given he is only 25, has talent, and is from the Northwest. I personally do not think we will considering that the price will be high and we can probably lean on Matt/Frye/Wallace for at least a season while we develop a QB selected in the draft.
Another good point above was that the quality of the ‘QB class’ is not what matters. We aren’t drafting 20 QB’s and averaging their performance together. We are talking about drafting one guy. So it comes down to who is on the board when our picks come up. The counter-argument is that in a weak QB class, a fixed caliber of QB will require a higher pick than in other years. This argument holds some water. However, the fact that Cassel and Anderson, two legitimate signal callers, will probably go to teams in need this offseason- that is two teams that probably won’t draft a QB in the first round this year.
by michaelfox99 on Dec 1, 2008 9:45 AM PST 0 recs
And after we get Derek Anderson,
Lets go get Ken Dorsey, Tim Couch and Vinny Testaverde.
by PascoJoe on
Dec 1, 2008 11:20 AM PST
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Peter King wrote a sentence on how the Hawks are pondering cutting Hasselbeck
I doubt this is true (He’s injured, not done, and we don’t exactly have an Aaron Rodgers waiting in the wings), but I thought it was semi-thought provoking nonetheless.
by LantermanC on Dec 1, 2008 11:30 AM PST 0 recs
That kind of talk is inevitable when your season is as bad as it has been.
Everyone will start rambling about “rebuilding”.
by djafrot on
Dec 1, 2008 1:51 PM PST
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hmm
I haven’t read his column this week yet but that statement is ridiculous. I usually have to skip much of his writing to avoid all the inevitable Favre, Patriots, Steelers ownership talk that is so pervasive in his work I want to puke. There is sometimes some good info that is otherwise hard to find, but generally speaking, his East-Coast bias is too hard to deal with. He hardly has an accurate pulse on the Seahawks that I would trust.
by Misfit74 on
Dec 1, 2008 3:25 PM PST
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true, his east coast bias is annoying
But there’s something about his writing that makes it so much more, well, “human” than your average football fare. It’s good to know that football writers are actually people rather than some douchebag ex-player with a chip on his shoulder (we all know who they are).
by djafrot on
Dec 1, 2008 3:39 PM PST
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Let's clarify here.
If you didn’t read Peter King’s column, make sure not to misinterpret what Lanterman was saying. King said he heard rumors that the Hawks might cut Hasselbeck, but went on to say that would be the dumbest thing we could do. He’s not for cutting Hass at all.
by SeaTownBlueDevil on
Dec 2, 2008 2:37 AM PST
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thanks for the clarification.
It sounded like King thought we should cut Hass, or would cut Hass, which I don’t agree with. I also don’t think it is a consideration by our team this off-season.
by Misfit74 on
Dec 2, 2008 3:07 PM PST
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Peter King must be smoking crack
Dick Dastardly and Muttley with sick laughter
by Wayward Llama on
Dec 1, 2008 3:54 PM PST
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