Tanking It
Let's shake off the food and booze haze and talk Hawks. A Sunday without Seahawks football felt lonely. At the same time, I can't stomach re-watching Thursday's tape. I hope to overcome that by tomorrow, because understanding a season requires autopsy of intestine along with heart and brain. A friend of mine who recently started scuba diving related why he'd never cave dive, invoking the image of smashing his headlamp, sitting in watery darkness awaiting suffocation or, for the optimistic, drowning. That's a non sequitor for those who missed Thursday. For those who watched Dallas extend Seattle's season point deficit to 95 in the coldest and most routine of fashions might wonder if they packed a dive knife.
So what it is. Should Seattle tank and take the sure top five pick or play for pride and escape the absolute cellar? It's an interesting question easily done disservice. Realistically, a team can't tank. It can't choose to lose for fear of injury, league punishment and permanently alienating its fans. The question is rather, should Seattle fans root for Seattle to lose out?
They won't overtake Detroit. The Lions are awful, have a two game advantage and face a difficult remaining schedule. With four tough games remaining, Detroit has an excellent chance of achieving 0-16. The Bengals are an easier catch. Assuming Seattle loses out, the Bengals would only have to win once in the final four to eclipse the Hawks. What Ohioan could foresee such consequences from kissing his sister? Kansas City also has a fatal flaw: a punishing strength of schedule. A quaint screwji written into the NFL draft breaks ties by awarding the higher pick to the team with the weaker strength of schedule. The battle between Saint Louis and Seattle should be decided in week 15 with the winner losing a spot in the draft while the loser considers rock bottom.
Seattle's a shoe in for a top five pick. The merits of keeping that pick make for a long, ongoing offseason discussion. The pick becomes more valuable if Seattle is slotted behind teams not interested in a quarterback. Historically, the first quarterback drafted significantly outperforms the second quarterback taken in terms of playing time and performance. Seattle is safe behind Cincinnati, Oakland and probably Kansas City, but could lose out to Detroit or Saint Louis. Marc Bulger is only 31 and isn't broken so much as disarmed. The Rams probably shouldn't but still might draft a quarterback. The Lions drafted Drew Stanton with their second round pick in the 2007 draft. Stanton can't seem to stay healthy and is currently sitting behind freelance sports agent Daunte Culpepper.
If Seattle is targeting a quarterback and unlikely to overtake its greatest rival for that position, it doesn't make much sense for Seattle to tank because it'll likely end up with the same options at five as two. And because Walter Jones is two years from retirement, still playing at a high level, and because the short learning curve typical of left tackles, Seattle doesn't need to target a left tackle. I shrink to type that, but I think it's true. Seattle, above all else, needs a quarterback of the future. It may never have a better opportunity. But rather than hope a Seahawks team that badly needs to show some life tanks, fans are stuck in the uncomfortable and detached position of rooting for opponent quarterbacks to show at all.
The best bet Seattle has at drafting Sam Bradford, and with each game Bradford looks more and more like the nation's top quarterback, is for Stanton and Bulger to play well. It's a weird and awkward position befitting this season. Whoever Seattle drafts will be risky and expensive. And I, for one, am not so much excited for this year's draft as dreading it. My hope, my sincerest hope, is Seattle can tempt the Vikings, near desperate for a quarterback but in line for a winning record, to swap picks. The Vikings may be emboldened after trading a first and two third round picks for Jared Allen. Allen has played well and Minnesota is charging towards a division title. A wealth of picks, collectively less expensive than a single fourth overall pick; a second round pick to trade for Brian Brohm, a mid first round pick to snag help desperately needed at guard--
I'm carrying on. Oh, the fantasy of the draft! If only the real draft were so sweet.
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48 comments
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Comments
Kansas City is absolutely in the market for a QB
When Herm gets canned, his replacement probably isn’t going to be real happy with the Brodie Croyle/Quinn Gray/Damon Huard/Tyler Thigpen poo poo platter. That’s this man’s opinion.
by Right on Dec 1, 2008 4:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thigpen has played well and finishes the season against four opponents ranked 20th or higher in pass defense DVOA
by John Morgan on Dec 1, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not the answer
He’s only good enough to serve as the stopgap while a young QB learns the system and adjusts to the speed of the NFL, a la Jon Kitna/Carson Palmer when Marvin Lewis (new coach) wasn’t happy with his Jon Kitna/Akili Smith/Gus Frerotte poo poo platter.
by Right on Dec 1, 2008 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Chiefs may not go QB in the first round
In fact, I’d see them going after a DE. They’re currently on pace to set an NFL record for least number of sacks. Then, I could see them picking up a QB in the 2nd-3rd round and sits while Thigpen continues to perform well enough.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 1, 2008 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They absolutely have to draft on the defensive side of the ball.
They have some talent on offense with LJ, Bowe, Tony Gonzo, and the occasional good games from Thigpen. That’s a subpar offense, but defense is more in need of a playmaker.
by SeaTownBlueDevil on Dec 2, 2008 4:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Hasselbeck to the Lions for their first rounder.
Oh, Matt Millen was already fired? Damn. Then make Al Davis do it.
Can't wait for Ruskell to knock this one out of the park.
by abender20 on Dec 1, 2008 4:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hey John,
What do you think of Matthew Stafford out of Georgia?
by aerozeppelin on Dec 1, 2008 4:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Big arm + low completion percentage + top ten pick = No thanks
by John Morgan on Dec 1, 2008 5:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Stafford and UGA are the BIGGEST underachievers...
Whoever ends up with him isn’t going to be too happy, unless that team is Oakland. The scary part is that it wouldn’t even be surprising to see Al Davis do that.
by SeaTownBlueDevil on Dec 2, 2008 4:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oooo... let me add to that
Stafford is also in an offense designed to rack up high completion percentages (remember David Greene). Stafford has the advantage of a solid offensive line (though in his defense there were some injuries) and a very good (if just a tad overhyped) running game. He doesn’t have great receivers, though they have a freshman WR who looks like the real deal. Stafford is no doubt talented, but he should have been much, much more productive in Mark Richt’s offense.
Stafford and Sam Bradford probably have the most pro ready arms of the big conference QBs I have seen this year. The difference between the two is that Stafford can make any throw, but he’s also liable to attempt any throw (at any time). Bradford I don’t think has quite the arm, but it’s plenty good. More importantly though, he generally lets things develop.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Dec 2, 2008 9:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Colt McCoy
I haven’t watched a ton but he has all the markings of a successful pro QB. 3 year successful starter, a crazy high completion percentage and unlike Bradford he doesn’t play behind an ungodly o-line. He won’t be as big a value as Daniels since he’ll still go awfully high in the draft but I don’t think there is a huge drop off from Bradford to him.
by Nate Dogg on Dec 1, 2008 5:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm of the opinion McCoy sticks around for a season, takes another shot at the Heisman/National Title and ensures a top ten pick next season.
by John Morgan on Dec 1, 2008 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
McCoy said he isn't coming out this year.
by michaelfox99 on Dec 1, 2008 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
McCoy restated his position
will look to see interest and reevaluate after season. However, with UT getting hosed by the pharse that is the Big 12 and the BCS, he may stay.
It is what it is...
by kidder95 on Dec 1, 2008 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard that they might fix the rookie salaries in 2010
and this might give juniors this year, along with a ‘weak’ senior class enough reason to declare early.
by LantermanC on Dec 1, 2008 9:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The top rated QB isn't always the best
I would have hope even if we missed on the consensus #1 ranked QB prospect in thinking about how guys like Ryan, Flacco, Cutler did ‘more with less’ in their college careers in terms of being surrounded by the talented teams that Bradford, Stafford, and other hot prospects are. I don’t think we necessarily need the universally acclaimed ‘best QB’ to have a chance at drafting a future stud even if not in the first round. Mirer, Couch, and others have proven that the #1 or even #2 rated QBs aren’t always the answer. Matt Ryan has been an example against that story, while Jamarcus Russell tells the other side of it in recent draft history. Failing to land the best QB in the draft and taking our QB of the future in later rounds would not necessarily disappoint me. Very good QBs can be found after round 1, esp. if one could learn under Hass for a year or two first. I think Kolb, Brohm, and Henne have a chance to be good, all 2nd rounders. There are certainly more. However, history shows that successful NFL QBs are usually first-round picks. There are also plenty of Kellen Clemens’, Tavaris Jacksons, and John Becks that were also 2nd rounders.
I wouldn’t be opposed to taking a QB in the later rounds unless I’m convinced Bradford will translate to the NFL game particularly well. I want the next Matt Ryan or Jay Cutler. That’s not asking much, is it? ;) But, to get someone like that, we surely would need to spend a first round pick.
I’m intrigued by the idea of trading for Brohm. That could work. I know Brohm was regarded very well before he returned for another year and would have been drafted probably as the #1 QB had he come out that year. I wonder if he has the ‘big NFL arm’ though? I would love a passer who can throw the deep ball for a change.
by Misfit74 on Dec 1, 2008 5:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I cannot believe I'm saying this...
but Cu
It is what it is...
by kidder95 on Dec 1, 2008 8:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ooops...
we would be wise to revisit Cullen Harper… there… I said it :)
It is what it is...
by kidder95 on Dec 1, 2008 8:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not anti-Harper
The guy has some talent. He just had a disappointing season. He was far better last year. To me he’s about the same caliber of prospect as Charlie Whitehurst (if you remember him coming out of Clemson a few years back to San Diego). If we are talking 3rd round down Harper might be anywhere from a solid pick to an absolute steal.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Dec 2, 2008 9:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Pack would trade Brohm.
By no means is Rodgers injury-prone, but he’s not an iron-man like Favre and Brohm seems like he could be a great backup.
by SeaTownBlueDevil on Dec 2, 2008 4:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cassell
There was also the discussion of Matt Cassell somewhere but would require the release of Matt Hassellbeck.
Cassell + new LT vs Sam Bradford + Matt Hassellbeck
I’m just throwing things out there.
by Justise on Dec 1, 2008 6:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This would be my first choice
Although, I wouldn’t mind drafting an impact WR, since they clearly wasted a first round pick on Branch.
by Jo-Jo on Dec 1, 2008 7:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont want Cassel
If he’s not a product of the system and cast in NE, I’ll be surprised. He’s also not the young QB we should be looking for as a long-term replacement. Cassel is better served going to a team that needs a QB who can play right away. We don’t need that.
by Misfit74 on Dec 1, 2008 7:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's kinda the point
That is under the assumption that Hass bounces back. That is something that we just don’t know. What is next year going to look like if he doesn’t. I think it’s pretty obviouse that Wallace and Frye aren’t the answer to that question. So, by that rationale, you’d rather have them draft a youngster with no NFL experience over a guy who has low miles and NFL experience.
And even if Hass is ready to role next year, who’s to say that he hasn’t been the product of a system and a cast here in Seattle? How much of the playbook will stay when the Walrus leaves the team?
There are just too many question marks all around. Besides, Cassel isn’t going somewhere unless he knows he’ll be given the starting job for sure, and we can most likely rule that senario out, so it is just a pipe dream. However, I think it would be nice, if we were to not get Hass back (the way he used to be), to have someone with experience and success locked down, and use the 1st rounder on an O-lineman.
by Jo-Jo on Dec 1, 2008 10:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
We could just as easily be talking about Matt Gutierrez here if the Pats decided to start him instead of Cassel. That system turns below-average players into good players, and great players (Brady) into All-time greats.
by SeaTownBlueDevil on Dec 2, 2008 4:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I exactly understand this criticism
What precisely is NE’s system? What about their offensive scheme is radically different than any other team’s? (These aren’t rhetorical questions. I genuinely don’t understand this criticism of Cassel’s performance.)
I could see if NE was running June Jones’s offense, but what are they doing that would make anyone conclude that a Cassel’s skills won’t translate to other systems? It’s not like he’s putting up gaudy overall numbers, save a couple of monster games. NE’s strength of schedule is weak, and obviously it helps to have Randy Moss and Wes Welker on the field, but those factors aren’t really related to NE’s offensive scheme.
It’s probably worth mentioning that Cassel’s career arc used to be a lot more common. QB’s came into the league and sat for a few years before ever getting on the field. So when they got to play they were ready to perform fairly quickly. I think that’s what we’re seeing in Cassel; a guy who probably always had slightly above league average talent playing to type when given a chance.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Dec 2, 2008 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not going to happen
Hasselbeck has at least two good years left in him too, probably more, so your logic of not drafting a LT also applies to QB. The Seahawks won’t draft a QB with their first pick. They will either trade down or get a defensive lineman/WR/safety/linebacker.
by VBJohnson on Dec 1, 2008 7:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He was saying that
quarterback is a more pressing need because it takes longer to bring a QB along
by Right on Dec 1, 2008 7:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't sound right
A pressing need for a QB would be Hasselbeck retiring at the end of this season. Since that’s not going to happen, we are afforded the time to draft a QB with potential that’s moderately ready to transition. This would probably be better suited for the 2nd or 3rd round.
Gotta remember that Ruskell is a practical man. QB at 1st would be blasphemy at this point in time.
by myx on Dec 1, 2008 8:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you VB...
If they draft a QB with their first pick they’d be paid as much or more than hasselbeck essentially kicking hasselbeck out the door. If they draft a LT (Oher) he can play LG alongside Jones until he retires. Then we can get a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round to groom behind hasselbeck at a much more reasonable price. There’s no way we get a QB with a top 5 pick.
by JordonB on Dec 1, 2008 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no offense guys...
but if the best player available is a QB, and no one wants to trade up, we take a QB. New Regime, new QB… more money or no, Matt is going to get one more year, then it is all up for grabs.
I would much prefer a #1 QB that will be successful than throwing bad money at a 2nd or 3rd rounder.
It is what it is...
by kidder95 on Dec 1, 2008 8:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tubbs
I know this is kind of out of left field, but do you guys think there’s any chance we see him at training camp next year? he’s gotta be healthy by then, right?
by JordonB on Dec 1, 2008 9:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The condition of his knees are apprently not too good.
by redwolf75 on Dec 1, 2008 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
have you heard anything about his knees since he was cut?
by JordonB on Dec 1, 2008 11:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe I remember one of the beat writers mentioning
that his rehabilitation was not going so well, but I can’t seem to find the link. Tubbs is probably done for good. I hope I’m wrong
by redwolf75 on Dec 2, 2008 9:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
unless he's out there exercising pretty much every day...
…he’s really going to balloon out of game (or even practice) shape.
But one really has to wonder what he’s doing.
by djafrot on Dec 2, 2008 1:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Any super promising DT's available?
I love it when a defense can collapse the pocket up the middle instead of relying on speed around the edges and blitzes.
by EA on Dec 1, 2008 11:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Just a thought
If there are supposedly so many first-round QB’s in this draft, would we not be better off finding value in the later rounds… AND not taking as much of a risk?
Like someone said… drafting a QB in the top 5 would give us two very highly paid QB’s. We’ll definitely end up having to sacrifice at other positions because we won’t have as much salary cap space.
by djafrot on Dec 1, 2008 11:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
right now there aren't any
DTs worth a high pick. which is too bad, because if this was 1 year ago we damn well woulda taken Glenn Dorsey and him and Mebane would dominate for years.
I wanna trade down into value range for Duke Robinson (starts and plays at a high level at guard right away and has some OT potential in him) get a mid 2nd rounder in the trade down.
take the early 2+ early 4 and move back up into 22-32 and grab Maclin, Heyward-Bey, Harvin or Britt.
mid 2nd aqauired via trade : Patrick Chung
day 1 = Duke, Maclin, Chung
by puerto on Dec 2, 2008 2:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
As a Gator I would love to see us grab Harvin.
But I think the desperation at o-line and safety will keep that from happening.
Dick Dastardly and Muttley with sick laughter
by Wayward Llama on Dec 2, 2008 7:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't see any drafts where Oher slips past no.3 to the Bengals.
Good news for us though is that there are like 5 tackles taken by pick no. 17, (2 besides Oher in the top 7), so if Ruskell has his eye on anyone in particular, we’re good.
by LantermanC on Dec 2, 2008 8:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Curry
Anyone see a scenario where we draft Aaron Curry, LB and let Hill walk? I don’t like the idea of a 1st round LB, but I have seen one mock where we draft Curry.
I would love a WR in early rounds. I think we go OT or QB, though, in the 1st. Why has Heyward-Bey’s stock fallen so much?
by Misfit74 on Dec 2, 2008 3:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Davis?
What do you think of Nate Davis? I keep hearing a lot about him lately and he supposedly compares favourably to a certain other QB who came out of the MAC as a first round pick four years back.
by ender_dace on Dec 3, 2008 11:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Scouting quarterbacks will be a big project over the offseason
I will dedicate a week to each, so Davis should get his due.
by John Morgan on Dec 3, 2008 12:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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