Flagging the Flag Begging

by John Morgan on Dec 11, 2008 11:30 AM PST in Commentary Comment 20 comments

That's got to be bad for the wrist. I mean, once in a while, but so much? Every game, every possession, every pass - that's got to be bad for the wrist. And man is it an eyesore.

The NFL, obsessed with its image, fiercely protective of its credibility, has allowed one dirty habit to assume epidemic proportions: Flag begging. Wide receivers cry foul on almost every coverage. One might wonder if Terrell Owens believes it even possible to cover him without committing pass interference. It's unsightly and unsportsmanlike, but worse, sometimes it seemingly works. As ugly as flag begging is, when a wide receiver pantomimes penalty and the official, for whatever reason, then throws a penalty flag, it's not just ugly, it hurts the officiating crew's credibility. It hurts the NFL's credibility.

I don't believe officials are biased. They do make mistakes. Over a course of a season, every team will suffer its share. Over the course of a lifetime, every fan will experience the sickening feeling of having a game stolen from them. That's probability, sometimes things bunch up. A streak of bad calls against one team, in one game, isn't any more extraordinary or corrupt than a streak of incomplete passes by Matt Hasselbeck. It happens. Sometimes heads comes up six times straight. It happens.

But football players openly petitioning officials for penalty flags doesn't have to. Put an end to it NFL. Make it a fifteen yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct. Take it off the field. Give your officials a fighting chance at credibility.

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This is a great idea!

One of the main reasons I dislike high level soccer is the incentive for the players to constantly act hurt when they’re not. Don’t let this kind of on the field acting infect the NFL. I don’t know why this is the first place I’ve heard of an idea like this…

by Snuffleupagus on Dec 11, 2008 11:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Me wonders

If this post is any way a reaction to you watching game film from last weekend and getting tired of Randy Moss begging for the flag…

by Badical Turbo Radness on Dec 11, 2008 12:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Best example of this

The D-Jack “pushoff” in XL.

Dick Dastardly and Muttley with sick laughter

by Wayward Llama on Dec 11, 2008 12:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

While I agree with you on concept,

it would be difficult to bring about this change. Receivers who are blatantly tripped or manhandled have every right to be upset, and will likely show some form of complaint with having been interfered with. I am already a little unhappy with some of the excessive celebration penalties as the fan side of me enjoys watching the fun stuff that Steve Smith used to do. Also 15 yards is excessive. This should be more along the lines of Technical Foul calls in the NBA where guys are allowed to plead their case reasonably for a short duration, but are T-ed up for showing the officials up.

Can't wait for Ruskell to knock this one out of the park.

by abender20 on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I disagree with this

This should be more along the lines of Technical Foul calls in the NBA where guys are allowed to plead their case reasonably for a short duration, but are T-ed up for showing the officials up.

The NBA is the worst model for officiating I can think of, explicitly because of rules like this. Rules that allow for a huge amount of interpretation. The rules of a game should be cut and dry. The greatest games ever created, Chess and Go, are simple, equitable and allow for no sense of persecution from either side.

I also think that’s a big part of the excessive celebration penalty. How does one define “excessive”? Also, who cares—but that’s another matter. This rule would be simple: gesture or speak a protest for a call and be flagged. Finish the play, talk, pat asses, languidly walk to the huddle, whatever, but if you approach an official or make a gesture for a flag, you get flagged.

by John Morgan on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Cut and dry is wonderful in a vacuum, and I wholeheartedly agree that it would be lovely if possible.

However, officials don’t see everything, can’t see everything. As in the NBA, players aren’t arguing the current call as much as tipping off the officials to look for stuff for the next play. If we had a way of objectifying actions and measuring intentions (is the defender REALLY going for the ball, or did he turn his head and just slam his hip into the receiver), it would be feasible to and inexcusable to not flag for begging.

Everything is subjective. What makes a pass just uncatchable as opposed to catchable? Is the ref focusing on handfighting leading up to the ball arrival but is not paying enough attention to position, etc?

In a completely subjective game like Chess, there is no gray area, only black and white (literally, and figuratively). There is room for dialogue in the NFL, and as much as that may further warp objectivity, it may be a necessary evil.

Can't wait for Ruskell to knock this one out of the park.

by abender20 on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That would be my concern too

A lot of the dialogue between players and ref’s are about trying to highlight something illegal the opposing players are doing. It happens a lot in both the NBA and the NFL and it’s more about trying to get a ref to see penalties going forward more than what happened on the last play.

by Nate Dogg on Dec 11, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I prefer players not point out penalties to officials

There’s a massive conflict of interest and I’m sure no official in any major sport would admit to listening to one word of what a player tells them.

by John Morgan on Dec 11, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not against the idea, but it sounds problematic

if it’s “cut and dried”… how does that work? After the play’s over, the receiver isn’t allowed to raise any of his arms? He can’t look at the official?

It’s going to be a judgement call one way or the other.

In my opinion all of that whining to the officials doesn’t help them, anyhow. The reason we get bogus PI calls is because the ref’s give the benefit of the doubt to the league’s more dangerous recievers. There’ll be contact on a play, the ref will be watching and will say “enh, Moss is pretty good”… WHOOSH there goes the flag.

by djafrot on Dec 11, 2008 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

High School

This is handled in High School with a simple rule (or was when I played). Only the two captains could speak to any ref. ever.

If you felt like something was going on that the refs should be made aware of, you tell the captain. The captain can respectfully approach a ref at some point and say “number 64 is holding everytime they run right.” Keep it short.

It’s a pretty simple rule for refs to officiate. If any other player says anything to them, it’s a flag.

by Snuffleupagus on Dec 11, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I really like that suggestion

And think it would be a great compromise.

The quality of NFL officiating has jumped out to me the past few seasons. So much so that it’s starting to take enjoyment away from all the games I watch. But I’m always hesitant to talk about it because I don’t want to sound like “that bitter ’Hawks fan” who never recovered from XL.

IMO, the NFL has really accelerated down the NBA path.- the flag begging, star players getting their own sets of rules, etc. I feel that different teams get different interpretations of calls based on the “style” they play with. i.e., physical teams get away with a lot more holding, illegal contact, stuff like that.

I don’t blame the refs for all of it. I realize any time there’s a human element involved, there are going to be missed/blown calls. And NFL refs are under some strain, because every year there’s a “tweak” to some rule, or they’re issued some mid-season directive to emphasize certain calls.

But, I think the NFL needs to make a big shake-up to the way it handles officiating. Sit down and streamline/simplify the rulebook. Make a switch to full-time refs with year-round training. And a merit-based review system that not only rewards the good ones, but purges out out the suspect ones on a yearly basis.

by jteckmann on Dec 11, 2008 3:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That'd be an excellent way to handle it

I think thats by and large how basketball teams handle it and with each side of the ball having a captain in football theres no reason why it couldn’t be applied here.

by Nate Dogg on Dec 11, 2008 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Players should have zero input into how a game is called.

Is kicking out of bounds subjective?

Should a cornerback or wide receiver have input into how pass interference is interpreted?

Of course not, because that means the more prominent or more persuasive player plays by a different, favorable set of rules.

by John Morgan on Dec 11, 2008 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

I’ve got no problem with WR’s showing frustration after a play, because its too much to tell them how they can react immediately after the play. However, if any of that is specifically directed towards the Ref, that should be a 5 or 10 yard penalty. Basically, anything more than a “Come on!” is penalty worthy.

by SeaTownBlueDevil on Dec 11, 2008 1:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And just for the sake of argument,

and not to be a jerk, NFL officiating is wildly subjective as well. Holding calls are nebulous at best, and the QB protection rules are seriously flawed. That said, I am all for black and white (especially on my cookies), and would love the game to be called consistently. I’ve reffed youth basketball, and I understand how difficult it is to separate the borderline stuff out.

Can't wait for Ruskell to knock this one out of the park.

by abender20 on Dec 11, 2008 12:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And holding and quarterback protection calls are the worst and most criticized penalties in the NFL.

That some rules in the NFL are subjective does not mean all rules in the NFL are subjective. See: line of scrimmage. Two forward passes. Kicking out of bounds.

by John Morgan on Dec 11, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not trying to be too pissy here and I realize I am...

I think I see players talking to officials and see tampering and you see it as part of the decision making process. As someone who has refereed—I haven’t—you might be right. Perhaps player ref interaction is essential and an official couldn’t be as aware of the game without it. To me, it seems unfair.

Maybe we can compromise on this: Players can talk to referees but cannot make the “flag” motion.

by John Morgan on Dec 11, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs