Quick Cap: Seahawks 13 - Jets 3
by John Morgan on Dec 21, 2008 4:20 PM PST
in Game Recap
78 comments
Courtesy Brian Burke of Advanced NFL Stats:
This is a work in progress. Before next season, I'll present an annotated win probability chart and use it tell the story of the game. But I wanted to put this up as a teaser and maybe run a beta next week.
Huge credit goes out to Mike Holmgren. Huge.
A team revolves around its offensive line. Its relative importance is debatable, but whatever your opinion, theory or preferred offensive philosophy, play starts with the offensive line and plays are run through the offensive line. You may not need top talent, but execution is fundamental.
If Seattle foundered, struggled to move the ball or bled turnovers, no one would have blamed Holmgren. But, you know what, he would have taken the blame anyway.
He didn't have to. Seattle's offensive line played with confidence and competence. They played like someone believed in them. And instead of running his preferred schemes, playing it by his book, a coach notorious for his inflexibility, bent to his team's talent; Mike Holmgren helped Seattle's talent, clearly not his hand picked talent, or even the right talent for his scheme, Holmgren helped his talent win.
You've been an exceptional coach, Mike Holmgren, and you proved it today.
Seattle's defense won this game. Brandon Mebane did his thing in the middle. Darryl Tapp reminded D'Brickashaw Ferguson of the good old days. Josh Wilson continued his stellar sophomore campaign, finally converting on a corner blitz and recording two picks. And Guitar Man got involved, which always means something good.
A good, fun win, but you don't want to take too, too much from this game. Seattle won and won well. It's offense has looked head and shoulders better in almost every game Seneca Wallace has started. Wallace really played well today. I don't think he has a future as a starter, but he's clearly one of the best backups in the NFL. I hope his performance with this personnel gives fans some hope that Seattle's offense has its broken part and underachievers, but it's not talent poor or fundamentally flawed.
Game Ball: Maurice Morris. It sucks he won't be back. He powered an offense against a top ten ranked rush defense, recording seven first downs, and tallied only a handful of unsuccessful rushes before garbage time. He's also an excellent receiver, something that's been lost because Wallace is weak throwing short. Morris has little wear on him, and complements the complete style of Julius Jones and bruising inside abilities of TJ Duckett. That's not likely to happen. Rushers have egos, and most want more carries than's good for them or the offense. Jones is clearly unhappy with his playing time. Morris could start somewhere. Still, hell of a way to go out. You saved 2007, and Seahawks fans will forever thank you for that.
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I'm gonna miss Holmgren
Fun game and good win. Josh Wilson is awesome!
by MFAN on Dec 21, 2008 4:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I am dumbfounded...
what do we really need be perhaps a do over? Do we really need a top pick… if so, we might as well take a QB, and let him sit a year or two… man, it is fun to watch this team grow… this team is young and fun.
Not that it matters to anyone, but Williams gave a hell of an effort, and overcame some mistakes. I would hope that he enjoys these two weeks with great flair.
Thank you Holmgren… wow… to have a Seattle team that always (well, barring ’98) finished strong is fun. You are a true teacher of the game.
Good luck in SF.
It is what it is...
by kidder95 on Dec 21, 2008 4:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I am still amazed by one thing
How in hell did an OL made up of five backups produces this protection and this running game? Mo almost never got caught in the backfield, which usually happens five times a game.
Maybe not having the regulars helped get Holmgren out of his shell.
by djafrot on Dec 21, 2008 5:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering the same thing.
It’s mind bottling.
by LantermanC on Dec 21, 2008 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't seem to do that much to help the Jets' OL
We seemed to get some pressure, though of course good coverage helped.
by djafrot on Dec 21, 2008 5:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would take the lines newfound pass-pro skills with a grain of salt...
Jets fans have lamented the teams’ adamant refusal to send out anything more than a four-man rush at a time all season. The blitz-crazed Rams confused and shamed this unit only last week.
by Fearless Frog on Dec 21, 2008 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Great win
Maybe we won’t get a top-five pick, but hey, that just means we’ll saved cap space. Besides, we can still draft a beast like Mays at a 6-8 spot.
For the last several seasons it’s felt like the pre-Christmas games have been extra-fun, win or lose. Today’s was no exception.
by katal on Dec 21, 2008 5:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Doug and John are sold on Mays, especially in the early 1st.
by redwolf75 on Dec 21, 2008 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mays is a linebacker playing out of position.
At best, he’ll be the next Roy Williams. At worst, he’ll be the next Michael Boulware.
Every day I hear about Seattle sports' failures. Every night I fall asleep to the sound of my own tears.
by Benne on Dec 21, 2008 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
False
Define "out of position". He’s the fastest player on USC’s team, so he can play safety in the NFL. He’s an All American at the position. You could not create a better safety on paper than Taylor Mays.
I could not think of two worse players to compare to Taylor Mays.
Roy Williams ran a 4.53 forty, and Michael Boulware ran a 4.55. Taylor Mays runs a sub 4.4.
Roy Williams is a safety whose strength is against the run, Michael Boulware was a linebacker who has to transition to safety because he was too small. Taylor Mays is a safety whose strength is playing center field.
What you should be thinking is a bigger, faster Sean Taylor. He has no ceiling, there simply aren’t players who have his size and speed combination.
At the 5-7 range, he’s likely the pick, as he fills a need and will probably be the best player available.
by ACassel on Dec 21, 2008 10:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to respectfully disagree.
Mays has all the desired measurables of a freak athlete, but he really hasn’t been a world-beater in coverage. Granted, he is fast enough to recover from mistakes and quick enough to go across the field to lay a good hit, but even those don’t have great form. I think William Moore is a better prospect who will transition better in the NFL, who would also be a great fit with us.
by Fearless Frog on Dec 21, 2008 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This goes for scotthawk's post below too
Taylor Mays is great in coverage: This season USC has allowed just 9 completions of more than 20 yards, and just 2 of more than 30. None longer than 40. Basically, Southern Cal NEVER gets beat deep. Taylor Mays’ primary role in the USC defense is to play center field and not allow the deep ball, which he has done fantastically.
"How many times have teams gone deep on us? He’s done exactly what we wanted. There’s a lot that goes on in his position that you don’t see that he deserves credit for. If you think about the last two seasons or the last three seasons, how many times somebody’s taken the ball, thrown it over our heads down the middle of the field, you can’t remember because it hasn’t happened."
-Pete Carroll
by ACassel on Dec 21, 2008 11:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to factor in competition
No one attacks USC deep because no one has the ability to
You may gain some yards on the ground, but eventually Lofa will end up biting you in the ass.
by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 22, 2008 7:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention
their D-line provides constant pressure, making it hard for receivers to even get downfield in time.
by SeaTownBlueDevil on Dec 22, 2008 10:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2002 Miami Hurricanes
Had as much talent on the defensive side of the ball as you will ever see, including one of the all time great college defensive lines. They allowed more deep balls that season than USC did this season.
by ACassel on Dec 22, 2008 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There are a lot of players you could put deep and tell them not to get beat deep
and they’d do a good job at it if it was their only assignment. Thats only part of a safeties job. Can he man up on tight ends and slot recievers? Can he come up in run support and how well does he read run/pass? Can he blitz effectively? Can he make plays on the ball side line to sideline in deep coverage? I haven’t watched him so I honestly don’t know.
If he’s going to go in the top ten he has to be Ed Reed or Sean Taylor or Troy Polamolu or LaRon Landry. So far his production is far behind those players, each of them has had more picks in a single collegiate season than Mays has had in his career. Right now it’s hard to see Mays as anything other than a forty time.
by Nate Dogg on Dec 22, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to have one of those 4 safetys, or Bob Sanders as well.
It would transform our defense from a sometimes awesome to a perennially dominating if we replaced Russel with Polamalu (better D-coordinator as well).
by LantermanC on Dec 23, 2008 6:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would rather have Anthony Bethea, but
you are right that a great safety and a real D-Coordinator would completely transform our D. Really, we simply have too much talent everywhere on that side to be this bad statistically.
by Fearless Frog on Dec 23, 2008 7:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How many more?
That doesn’t seem real significant. It’s one example, it doesn’t include any numbers, and it can be explained by many things. What really matter is what Mays himself has done. I, myself, haven’t seen him do much and it would seem most scouts agree. I don’t think I’ve done enough research to have a confident opinion, but it’s worth noting much of Mays fame is tied up in his measurables. Running fast in a straight line is not a particularly valuable skill for a free safety. What I’ve seen of Mays, his agility and change of direction leave something to be desired, and given his build, are only likely to get worse.
by John Morgan on Dec 22, 2008 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No one?
That might be the first time anyone has ever implied that the Pac-10 can’t throw the ball.
Here’s the most staggering counterexample:
Willie Tuitama’s longest passes against his other opponents went 23, 27, 43, 52, 37, 48, 56, 43, 37, 26, 41 and 71. Clearly he can make a long play through the air. His longest pass against USC went for 14.
by ACassel on Dec 22, 2008 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting point.
I like him more now, though the great D-line and Rey Maluaga and Cushings certainly help, as well as the fact that the Pac 10 sucks and colleges run more than they pass.
If he drops a bit I wouldn’t mind trading up to get him (like up to the 25th overall pick…), but a guy with his type of workouts never drops.
by LantermanC on Dec 22, 2008 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sad to see Holmgren go.
Fun to see the game played in the swirling snow (that rhyme wasn’t on purpose!). And glad to Seahawks win on my birthday. It’s depressing that this season couldn’t have been a better one for Holmgren though.
by Coach Owens on Dec 21, 2008 5:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Good bye Holmgren!
Feels like the end of an era… It is sad that this was such a dissapointing season. Key injuries and some down right sh*tty defensive play really hurt our chances this year. To John Morgan, this is my first season as a member of this blog and I gotta say I am very impressed by your stat taking as well as your take on the games. After every game this year I went straight to this board to see what you had to write about it. To all of the Cardinals fans that harass me year after year that I go to the games(I am a transplanted Seahawk fan to AZ) YOU WISH that the Tweety birds could carry the mantle of NFC West champs with as much success and dignity as our Hawks have done year after year. Finally, thank you Coach Holmgren for all of the fantastic memories you gave us fans. We now have a winning tradition that we can be proud of! Week 17 and the Hawks will beat the Cards and as always I will be there to cheer’em on!!! Go Seahawks 2009/10!!!
by AZ Hawk on Dec 21, 2008 6:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Seattle will ever have a better coach
It’d be hard to equal Holmgren’s greatness on and off the field. I’m sad to see him go, glad he went out the way he did, and ready for the new era. I don’t think today could have gone any better.
by Nate Dogg on Dec 21, 2008 6:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Brian, I have a .gif request if you don't mind
Wilson celebrating after the pick, tossing the snow in the air like a little kid. I’m hoping thats what I take away from 2008, that memory.
by Nate Dogg on Dec 21, 2008 6:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
My lasting memory of this game will be Holmgren...
Being surrounded by his players on the sidelines in the last seconds, going out to embrace his former apprentice Favre, then getting a final ovation from the fans. Yeah, that got me a little emotional. Thank you, Mike, for putting Seattle on the football map.
I was also fairly impressed with our patchwork O-line. Mo Morris had good running lanes, and Seneca actually had time in the pocket. Kyle Williams held his own, with only a couple big mistakes.
Every day I hear about Seattle sports' failures. Every night I fall asleep to the sound of my own tears.
by Benne on Dec 21, 2008 7:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That was awesome
Probably my favorite moment of the season.
by MFAN on Dec 21, 2008 7:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Whee!!!
Seattle Seahawks’ Josh Wilson tosses snow into the air and toward fans after intercepting a New York Jets pass in the second half of an NFL football game Sunday, Dec. 21, 2008, in Seattle. The Seahawks won 13-3. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)
by Doug Farrar on Dec 21, 2008 8:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Snowballs!
How much of the snowball attack did you guys get to see on the tv? I was on the 40 and didnt participate but it was fricken hilarious. The Jets huddle, the fan who ran onto the field, the seagals and the Jets heading to the locker room all got pelted.
Bringin' the outside heat.
by FizzleDrip on Dec 21, 2008 7:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
And before anyone calls me out, it was all in good nature and the players were having fun with us.
by Robert on Dec 21, 2008 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just disappointed you didn't pack something blunt or sharp into that snowball.
by BrianL on Dec 21, 2008 8:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because I really wanted to see Adams see some action at safety.
Yeah…
by BrianL on Dec 21, 2008 8:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe this week?
Holmgren wanted to win today too badly to mix it up. Although I did see Herring out there.
by Nate Dogg on Dec 21, 2008 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a random question/statement
We’ve given Bruce DeHaven a lot of crap this season, but the Hawks special teams DVOA is 10th in the NFL, John Ryan has really developed into a solid punter and the coverage units have done well. Should we actually be giving DeHaven some props?
by MFAN on Dec 21, 2008 9:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
perhaps, yes.
I still see opposing teams get a little too much on returns. And I’m really not sold on Forsett returning punts… will be very happy to see Burly back there next year.
But it seems like a few “outside” players – Ryan, Courtney Taylor – have been decent acquisitions to special teams.
by djafrot on Dec 21, 2008 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Our return coverage is still somewhere near the worst in the NFL in terms of avg yards allowed...
And when we unnecessarily ditch Mare, it’s another fiasco waiting to happen with devastating consequences. Like John’s mentioned before, DeHaven’s only job was to construct a good blocking unit due to us having an excellent stable of returners, yet by all indications he’s done an inexcusably poor job.
by Fearless Frog on Dec 21, 2008 10:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Another random question
Was that Will Herring looking like an f’ing hammer all day long? I’m sure I’m wrong, but the guy jumped out at me.
It is what it is...
by kidder95 on Dec 21, 2008 10:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
hey played well
I think
You may gain some yards on the ground, but eventually Lofa will end up biting you in the ass.
by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 22, 2008 7:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Except for right in the begninning when he got run over by Thomas Jones.
It's great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Dec 22, 2008 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey how bout that Courtney Taylor catch?
The diving one, in coverage, near the goal line?
That was clutch.
2/3 of the world is covered by water. The rest is covered by Marcus Trufant.
by Chickadee on Dec 21, 2008 10:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That catch
And branchs 2 yd gain… sweetness. Great to see #83 on the field again (him & pistol are my 2 favorite hawks, and my branch jersey is autographed by pistol; kinda wierd). Carlson getting off the line and catching the corner TD was a thing of beauty as well.
by vanrijn on Dec 23, 2008 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey guys! Look out I only have one more game to play "pile on" in!
It's great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Dec 21, 2008 10:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
We've seen Russell make tackles with his head and his ass.
Apparently the hands just don’t seem to be working.
by SeaTownBlueDevil on Dec 22, 2008 10:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell is he even doing??
I think he’s just showing off those mad hops.
by MFAN on Dec 21, 2008 11:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actuallly the more I look at it the more I'm impressed
He’s got some decent height on both jumps.
by MFAN on Dec 21, 2008 11:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Brandon Mebane
completely made Alan Faneca his personal bitch the entire game, which was exciting to watch.
by Fearless Frog on Dec 21, 2008 10:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Kris Jenkins..
How was he so invisible today? Couldn’t possibly have been Vallos, Womack and Wrotto? could it? anyone who watches tape care to share and let me know what the plan was against him?
I put that performance on Mike Solari.
Also, Mebane manhandled two probowl starters on the inside today.
by puerto on Dec 21, 2008 11:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Is it just me or is John Carlson a talented player?
by Robert on Dec 22, 2008 12:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
It's just you
he’s soooooooooo slow
by Nate Dogg on Dec 22, 2008 12:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't need to be a speedster.
He needs to be able to make the tough catches, which he has been awesome at.
It's great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Dec 22, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's amazing that he's picked up such a complex offense so quickly
Especially since the WCO is supposed to be hardest on its tight ends. The sky’s the limit for this kid.
by djafrot on Dec 22, 2008 1:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Imagine if we'd had him instead of Pollard in GB last year.
Might have been different. And, if Kearney had told someone he was playing with one arm.
by lemonverbena on Dec 22, 2008 8:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hope everyone saw this
The fans were throwing snowballs at the Jets as they walked off the field, and DE Shaun Ellis decided to retaliate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI9C0n63F68&/
Pretty funny, actually
by UW Alex on Dec 22, 2008 1:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He was fined $10,000 for that antic this morning.
God, I hate the NFL sometimes.
by Fearless Frog on Dec 23, 2008 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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