Seahawks 2nd Round Pick: John Carlson

by John Morgan on Apr 26, 2008 4:07 PM PDT Comment 96 comments

Poured into the blue, indeed.

John Carlson

Here's my earlier scouting report. I don't think Carlson will set anyone's heart on fire, but he's a very solid tight end with almost no downside. Day one contributor, I don't think this is the best value here, but needless to say I'm very high on Carlson.

. . .

Skills are broken down from a ++ to --. ++ are complete skills, pro ready. -- are glaring weaknesses. The kind of faults that can fell an otherwise top talent.

Route Running: Very fluid route runner in a demanding system. Crisp cuts, clean lines and excellent field awareness.

Conditioning: Maintains high level of play into 4th quarter.

Hands: Snatches the ball away from his body and quickly secures it. Consistent receiver who can make some hard catches.

Release: Gets off the line quickly and fights off the press effectively. Works his way through traffic and adjusts route for defenders.

Overall Athleticism: Smooth, no hitches in his run even when changing direction. Can lose his feet from under him.

Agility: Maintains speed into and out of cuts. Knows how to add a little speed when entering the soft spot in a zone or when shedding a defender.

Zone Awareness: Adjusts routes to zone coverage, consistently finds openings.

Blocking: Surprised? I was. A tenacious and spirited blocker when he engages, Carlson too often misses his assignment, losing position or being run around. Has the foundation of an excellent blocker, but exits college more of a support blocker.

Overall Speed: Speed tops out quickly. Doesn't look significantly faster after 10 yards than he does after 5.

RAC: Brings the fight to the defender, but isn't bruising. Lacks the agility to be much of a force in the open field in the NFL. Will not run away from NFL defenders.

Boxing Out Defenders: This could be the product of late throws, but I watched Carlson allow way too many defenders to make a play for the ball from behind. Needs to improve his ability to use his body position to remove the defender from the play.

n/a

Summary: Carlson is a good, well-rounded tight end. He's a good blocker and steady force underneath. Many of his skills are pro ready, but an inability to run away from or box out defenders might limit his deep ability. The later may also limit his viability as a red zone target.

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Comments

why not?

hopefully he can help us out?

who did you guys want in the 2nd? Laws?

Let's go.

by J Hens on Apr 26, 2008 4:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

excellent

If we get Laws we can call it a draft.

by Will Kier on Apr 26, 2008 4:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I like Carlson

He’s the probably the most pro-ready TE in the draft who can both pass and block, but trading that much to get him makes little sense to me.

by OlSalty on Apr 26, 2008 4:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

He is the most pro-ready

It seems that is the way Ruskell is drafting. Perhaps trying to get one more for the Walrus before he rides into the sunset.

by marinator on Apr 26, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

what all did we trade?

i didn’t hear the details, but i think i caught a 2nd and a 3rd? both this years?

Let's go.

by J Hens on Apr 26, 2008 4:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yup

by ningwers on Apr 26, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

by Strang on Apr 26, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

like I've been saying, we probably gave up a bit too much

but Carlson is good and he’s the guy they wanted.

Jackson and Carlson = very very good day 1 for the Hawks!

FREE JEREMY REED!!

by MFAN on Apr 26, 2008 4:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

a pro-ready TE is nice

i mean, it’s not like we’ve ever had one before haha.

steve young was talking about that@ pick 25, how important a good TE is to the system

Let's go.

by J Hens on Apr 26, 2008 4:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Now that I think about it

The trade makes a little more sense. New Orleans was likely to take Carlson with their pick if the Shockey trade never materialized.

by OlSalty on Apr 26, 2008 4:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

That's a good point actually

I hadn’t thought of that

by Strang on Apr 26, 2008 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea

definitely,

Let's go.

by J Hens on Apr 26, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hadn't considered that.

Good point.

by BrianL on Apr 26, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

great point

FREE JEREMY REED!!

by MFAN on Apr 26, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

from nfldraftcountdown on carlson

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/te/johncarlson.html

’’Was also a superb basketball player coming out of high school and even earned a monogram with the Irish basketball team in 2003..Played behind Anthony Fasano, a future 2nd round pick of the Dallas Cowboys, early in his career…Played in a pro style offense in college…Voted a team captain as a senior…Brings a nice blend of physical tools and intangibles to the table…Will not be confused for Antonio Gates any time soon but he is a great all-around tight end who should be a NFL starter.’‘

i’ve heard the basketball skills mentioned with TE alot actually, and the ability to block out defenders to go up and get the ball. an athletic playmaker in a spot we haven’t had one should be pretty nice actually.

Let's go.

by J Hens on Apr 26, 2008 4:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah watch out mentioning basketball around here

i got raked over the coals awhile back for noticing the same thing about several really talented nfl tight ends

by clamslayer on Apr 26, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

thanks for the heads up.

still, all the wrestling comparison’s with Laws.. why not ?

Let's go.

by J Hens on Apr 26, 2008 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

When?

It translates perfectly

Coach Owens has no bones

by Scruffy Lefty on Apr 26, 2008 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

not so much my point

and perfectly? maybe in terms of specific positional characteristics, but what i’m saying is there are sport-to-sport characteristics that can help from one to another

Let's go.

by J Hens on Apr 26, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I deleted the thread because seeing it kept pissing me off

I had written a diary sometime back about tight ends, I think it was mostly about D. Keller but I mentioned that several of the premier TEs in the league played basketball only or split time when in college and John & ASmugBoyd blew me up over it

by clamslayer on Apr 26, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't ragging on you.

Just the general idea that playing basketball makes you a good tight end. It’s silly, therefore I make fun of it. Naturally, some of the skills of a basketball player translate, it’s just exceeding the realm of cliche.

by John Morgan on Apr 26, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I pointed out in the thread I thought it had to do with the height and athleticism

and how those athletes that met the ideal physical parameters for nfl TEs were more heavily recruited into basketball, and that it was surprising how many top nfl TEs had bball experience.

It’s correlation not causation. Basketball prowess of course does not translate into football skills.

by clamslayer on Apr 26, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The cliche part is true

Ever since Antonio Gates. But a lot of things you do as a power forward does translate well to playing b-ball. Especially the body build of a lot of PF

Coach Owens has no bones

by Scruffy Lefty on Apr 26, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ugh been drinking to much

this you do as a power forward does translate to playing TE. (rebounding, using your body to create space etc…)

Coach Owens has no bones

by Scruffy Lefty on Apr 26, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's a lot to give up.

But Carlson doesn’t fall any farther. This pick smacks of Lofa Tatupu. He was Ruskell’s pick, doesn’t please the peanut gallery, but you can understand. We all saw what Pollard was able to do on his withered bones. Calrson is MUCH faster and more athletic than Pollard. A better route runner (entering the league), a very sure hander receiver, and, really, it’s almost impossible to know what he would have done on a better offense. No way a tight end is going to play well on the 116th ranked offense, being double covered every play, with a a bunch of nobodys and rooks passing him the ball.

by John Morgan on Apr 26, 2008 4:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

It’s not the ideal way to get him, but he wasn’t going to fall to us @ 55, I’m fairly certain the Saints would’ve picked him after the Shockey business fell through. So if Ruskell decided Carlson was the guy he wanted, there was no choice but to trade up.

by OlSalty on Apr 26, 2008 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I agree completely.

I’d love to package Morris and a 5th rounder for a 3rd rounder. Not sure if the value is there though.

Just think if we could get an DT, OL, S, or WR in the third it would be ideal.

by ASUBoyd on Apr 26, 2008 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea

That wouldn’t be bad, but still, relying on J.Jones seems kind of risky. I almost like the idea of Morris being there, he does know the system, and he’s been solid. I mean, unless we do go for another RB later on.

Let's go.

by J Hens on Apr 26, 2008 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like MM on 3rd downs for catching passes, pass pro and that draw play

I don’t think the other couple backs are really specialized in that role

by clamslayer on Apr 26, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jones is a much better pass blocker than Morris.

Morris just doesn’t fit what Holmgren wants to do. I doubt he’ll be with the team when the season starts.

by John Morgan on Apr 26, 2008 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last season kinda shows how little faith they had in Morris

Which, as you documented quite well, is kinda sad, but there it is.

by Strang on Apr 26, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess MM just looked really good to me compared to SA's debauchery

by clamslayer on Apr 26, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

in pass pro that is

by clamslayer on Apr 26, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alexander would literally take plays off in pass pro.

Inexcusable.

by John Morgan on Apr 26, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You'll have to forgive my ignorance

but how does Jones perform as a pass catcher in the backfield?

by BrianL on Apr 26, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

hes definitely capable.

has put up solid numbers every season catching out of the backfield

by ASUBoyd on Apr 26, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Capable sounds good to me.

Vast improvement over SA’s “completely inept.”

by BrianL on Apr 26, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Far more capable than Alexander and Morris

by OlSalty on Apr 26, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lets put it this way, he's not Brian Westbrook, but compared to Alexander...

He’s Brian Westbrook.

by John Morgan on Apr 26, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Awesome.

by BrianL on Apr 26, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Word.

23 catches for 203 yards last year. 8.8 avg. half of his catches went for FD.

Remember, that is in a non-WCO. He could definitely double those numbers in our offense based on playing time and how Holmgren decides to use him.

by ASUBoyd on Apr 26, 2008 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I might be over estimating his value

but I think a 3rd rounder would be perfect for what we need this season.

by ASUBoyd on Apr 26, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

well he obviously prioritized this position somewhat

there are def. areas we could have grabbed a good player in the 3rd round, but if Carlson is more of a sure thing, I’m all for it

Let's go.

by J Hens on Apr 26, 2008 4:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Unless another trade comes up, we know where we are picking next.

Who are we targeting in the 4th etc.? Or at least positions?

RB, WR, DT, OL, S

Let's go.

by J Hens on Apr 26, 2008 4:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Brohm just said he had "a lot of contact with Seattle. Talked to them a lot."

by ASUBoyd on Apr 26, 2008 4:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I just noted that in the other thread.

Interesting… hard to justify trading up when no one in the next ~10 picks are likely to take him.

by clamslayer on Apr 26, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

interesting

but I just don’t see how we get him. We could get back into the 2nd…but we’d have to give A LOT up, although securing our future at QB might be worth it.

FREE JEREMY REED!!

by MFAN on Apr 26, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs