Assessing Bobby Engram's Value

by John Morgan on May 6, 2008 12:31 PM PDT Comment 11 comments

Clare Farnsworth has substantiated what Frank Hughes originally reported, Bobby Engram is unhappy with his contract. Instead of worrying about his motivations, I thought I’d look into his impact on Seattle’s passing offense. Here’s my method, simple enough. In 2006, Engram contributed in 8 contests, including two playoff games, and missed 9 contests. From that 9, I removed all snaps helmed by Seneca Wallace leaving 4 ½ games. I also scratched week 15 as it was Engram’s first game back. The question is, how well did Seattle do in net yards per pass attempt in those 8 contests compared to their opponent’s typical NY/PA versus how well did they do in those 4 ½ contests in NY/PA attempt compared to their opponent’s typical NY/PA? Pretty simple, well let’s see.

With Bobby Engram

NY/PA: 5.88

Expected NY/PA: 5.89

Percentage: 100%

Without Bobby Engram

NY/PA: 6.41

Expected NY/PA: 6.16

Percentage: 104%

So the Seahawks passing attack actually improved slightly without Engram. Why is that? Well, it’s not an improvement enough to herald church bells, but it might be simply that Holmgren’s been squeezing value out of the slot before Engram ever signed. In 1999, Mike Pritchard averaged 14.4 yards per catch on 26 receptions. In his time in Green Bay, Holmgren found life in Derrick Mayes, Bill Schroeder and Don Beebe. Not to sound like a broken record, but it’s important not to credit the player for the system. There’s a reason Holmgren has consistently produced top passing attacks with but a handful of name wide receivers.

I like Bobby Engram. He does what is asked of him and does it well. I find it a touch disingenuous when athletes talk about money equaling respect, but were Engram a top receiver, I could understand his beef. As is, he’s a systems player, albeit a fine one, that’s 35, coming off a career high in receptions and locked into a contract that probably isn’t too far from his actual value. I want to have your back here Bobby, but I think $1.7 million is just going to have to do.

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question

John, you don’t seem overly optimistic about Engram in 2008 (which I understand), plus with Burleson struggling a bit and Branch being out for a while who do you think is gonna step up at WR for the Hawks?

I only ask because you don’t seem to worried about the Hawks at WR.

FREE JEREMY REED!!

by MFAN on May 6, 2008 1:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Some good news, however..

Holmgren did an interview yesterday and said he expects Branch to be available and play week 1.

by ASUBoyd on May 6, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That would be tremendous news if it pans out

I’m highly skeptical, though.

by BrianL on May 6, 2008 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's great news!

even if he’s not ready by week 1, it sounds like he’s making good progress.

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by MFAN on May 6, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, there were a ton of reports about Rivers coming back very fast

So I was hoping we would hear something about Branch. He said “We think we are going to have him for the start of the regular season, but we’re not sure.”

He did say he was most worried about WRs and the guys coming off surgery like Walt, Tubbs, and everyone else. He also said he is not sure how he is going to utilize all the running backs at this point.

by ASUBoyd on May 6, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I vote Holmgren goes with

a Weaver/Beer truck backfield a couple of times.

by BrianL on May 6, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am a little worried.

I think uncertainty makes almost anyone worry, but my rational side believes that Seattle can get enough from what they have to be very good. Specifically, I think Courtney Taylor will contribute. I think he’s the most pro ready of the practice squad bunch. Jordan Kent is a complete mystery and I really don’t know anything about Logan Payne, either. I hold out hope that Branch will contribute towards the end of the season. I think Seattle will once again get a lot of production out of non-WR receivers. I think Carlson could step in and be a top 10 producer in TE DPAR. I think Julius Jones is huge upgrade over Shaun Alexander receiving. In summation, I think Seattle has enough talent at WR, coupled with an undemanding system, talent wise at least, the addition of Carlson, the purging of Alexander, and a top pass blocking line, to once again field an above average passing offense.

by John Morgan on May 6, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

good points

the upgrades from Pollard to Carlson/Putzier and Alexander to Jones should really help the passing game.

I agree on Taylor. I could see him potentially starting at some point this year.

FREE JEREMY REED!!

by MFAN on May 6, 2008 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A lot of people seem very high on Logan Payne as a possible Engram-clone..

However, he has never had a SS smash his helmet into his gut while trying to make a catch in the NFL, so it is a little early for that proclamation.

I am definitely more concerned about the WR situation.

by ASUBoyd on May 6, 2008 1:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I wonder, John

When we discuss Bobby’s value from last season, and going forward as WR in his mid-thirties, should we consider that there were two Bobby’s that played? There was the Slot version that we’ve seen for years, and the Starter version that came in when both Deion Branch and D.J. Hackett was hurt. I have a sneaking suspicion that Bobby was more effective in the slot and with the other guys taking a lot of attention away from him. Now in 2008 Bobby may just go in as the starter again, with Hackett gone and Branch hurt (and doubtful to be 100% at any point this year). If Bobby is better at #3, maybe one of the team’s higher-ups will also realize that, and perhaps get Taylor or Obo in as the starter besides Nate.

by J.L. White on May 6, 2008 9:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the break down.

I agree that on-field, Bobby’s probably paid what he’s worth, and I definitely wouldn’t want to see the team invest in an extension for a 35 year old guy.

But I’m wondering if off-field concerns should trump here, and it’s worth it to give Bobby about a $2M roster bonus this year – mainly a reward for past performance, bumps his pay up this year, and no cap consequences for ‘09. (The team should be able to afford that – I’ve seen estimates that they’re sitting on about $11M cap room) Then both sides can debate the future when they cross that bridge in FA.

I’d just hate to see something disrupt the goodwill that’s been growing in the locker room. The team hasn’t had a problem re-visiting contracts or asking for restructures when it benefis them (i.e., all the D-guys that stepped up to help for Lofa’s extension). So keeping up that warm & fuzzy atmosphere has gotta be a two-way street. IMO, this isn’t a case like D-Jack – where the player was aloof, dogging it in practice. Engram’ always been one of the hard-working, mentor guys. The team even refusing to negotiate with a respected leader may rub some guys the wrong way. And given all the variables surrounding Bobby – how thngs have changes since the day he signed the original deal and now – I don’t think it sets some dangerous precedent, or will open the flood gates for other guys asking for a raise.

by jteckmann on May 7, 2008 12:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs