Free Agent of Interest: Albert Haynesworth
by John Morgan on Jan 29, 2009 1:23 PM PST
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PrintName: Albert Haynesworth
Birthdate: June 17, 1981.
Height/Weight: 6'6", 320
Position: DT
My interest: Skip the stats and measurables, Haynesworth is an established, dominant defensive force. The argument for Haynesworth is simple: Sign him and add an apex defender at a position of need. Players of Hayneworth's ability do not enter free agency. He's only 27, playing a position that doesn't decline until the early thirties. Hayneworth would have a transformative effect on Seattle's defense. The argument against signing Haynesworth is murkier. He has some injury concerns, but nothing major. Haynesworth has the red ass and not in any charming way. He's explosively violent.
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Albert + Brandon = DEFENSIVE MURDER TEAM
’nuff said.
I’d do this in a heartbeat. How expensive can he be? We could line Larry, Curly and Moe behind him at LB and still be good.
oh, and while I'm at it... Clayton sez:
The Titans were considering offering 12 million per season. Ouch.
Besides stomping on Andre Gurode's face,
what other character concerns has he had? He probably has many, I’m just not aware of many.
What kind of price do you think he would cost? Something along Julian Peterson’s contract? And would that be feasible for us to do, or would we essentially be forced to trade down from the 4th pick?
Yeah, I highly doubt Ruskell will sign him based off of that
by aerozeppelin on Jan 29, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
Hard to say actually.
We know he doesn’t like off the field issues, but I’m not sure about his preference twoards on-the-field issues. If you tweak it, you can just chalk it up to ‘competitive spirit’ and ‘just wanting to win’.
Though of the top of my head, I can’t name any guys on our team that seem to get a lot of dumb penalties (BRuss excluded except he doesn’t actually ever get penalized). Though Bernard, Locklear, and… someone else have had some more serious legal issues (Tatupu’s issue is not serious enough).
Has anyone ever been penalized for
an out of bounds hit that didn’t make contact. I mean, if a guy is clearly out of bounds, but the defender dives at him but misses, he should still be penalized in my mind. It’s still a dangerous action, just because he sucked too much to make contact shouldn’t get him out of the penalty. Then again, if he twists his body in midair to avoid contact, then there maybe would be no penalty? Too much judgement call, not enough objectivity.
I was unaware there was a charming way to have the red ass.
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!! I DRINK IT UP!!
Charming? Probably not. Hilarious? Certainly!
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!! I DRINK IT UP!!
Ja, bitte!
I will smash your face into a jelly.
by Phil Hatzenbuehler on Jan 29, 2009 2:08 PM PST reply actions
Cap
Does going to an uncapped year give us any advantage? If we can sign him to a deal that has a cap hit we can fit into this year’s cap, and then blow open the bank after this year, having Allen’s money could help. I could also be totally misunderstanding the implications of not having a cap after this year.
I worry a bit about Haynesworth
as he was a total non-factor up until having two huge contract years.
There’s a chance he could revert to mediocre sloth again after getting paid.
Wow, he's only 27?
He’s been an established beast for so long… But in any case, Sando brought up a great point. Haynesworth is the soul of that defense. If he hits FA, that means the Titans didn’t feel that he’d produce after a fat contract. I f not, you can bet your ass Tennessee won’t let him go.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
I'm inclined to think that only applies to good players that are replaceable.
Like Cortland Finnegan for example. Haynesworth makes that D tick. They won’t let him go unless they know something we don’t.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jan 29, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
Why is this FAI less detailed than the others?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
Sure, but in that case you could say the same for TJ.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jan 29, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
TJ is not nearly the dominant player that Haynesworth is
and a defensive tackles contributions are much more difficult to measure than a WR.
He didn't say dominant, he said established.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jan 30, 2009 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
I posted Houshmandzadeh's stats and the fact that he didn't attend the combine because
I was attempting to illustrate that he’s probably undervalued because of his modest start. I think if Houshmandzadeh was producing at a similar level, but was a first round pick with an extensive college profile, he’d be a mega-dollar free agent.
by John Morgan on Jan 30, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, I see now.
Thanks for shedding light on that, I never realized that aspect of Housh’s pricetag.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jan 30, 2009 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
The post could have just been the the title alone.
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!! I DRINK IT UP!!
Not much to discuss
This is about three things:
1. Does AH ever see the light of free agent day? (If so, why?)
2. Does Ruskell look to make a Haynesworth level splash this off-season? (I actually don’t think the face-stepping incident would turn Ruskell away for certain.)
3. Why would AH come here when he would have his pick of suitors (a la Reggie White)?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Well, I'll give you reasons for 3.
Money talks, so anybody can sign anywhere. Football isn’t like baseball and basketball because no football player except for Manning and maybe LT gets that much money in endorsements (or at least it doesn’t seem like it). In baseball and basketball, You can take $5 million dollars less over the course of a 5 year contract because you will get much more than that being a Yankee or a Knick, or a Celtic.
Oh, also,
He would want to come here because our division is weak, and he would get a chance at the playoffs every year.
Interesting point...
though the Diehlman saga showed me that, at least for some guys, NFL free agency is a bit like transferring in college. Lots of guys transfer to schools closer to home (or familiar environments). I think in the NFL you get something like that, where lots of guys stay in the same division or they follow specific coaches from one place to another.
In other words the road from Nashville to Seattle is a long one, and it’d better be littered with wads of cash to get a guy like Haynesworth to travel it. For a guy who played at Tennessee, the road from Nashville to Atlanta or Philly might be just a little shorter.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I know this might seem lazy
but adding age next to the birthday or height/weight would be pretty useful. Instantly knowing whether a player is 27 or 32 is just as important as their other physical stats.
Get out the slide rule and do some math.
It’s good for ya.
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!! I DRINK IT UP!!
but....there's numbers!
two of them! and then you have to subtract something from them. it’s crazy, I tell you.
Probably a mute point
Look, I want the team to win as much as the next guy, but I also want players that I can feel good about cheering for. What Haynesworth did was almost unforgivable. Anyone else would have done prison time for felony assault. I would have a real hard time liking him on our team.
That aside, while BJ Raji is not close to Haynesworth in size or talent, if we’re stuck with the #4 pick and can’t trade down, which is what most people who are doing the most talking seem to think, Raji might be the best player available, and even with #4 money, would be considerably cheaper than Haynesworth. Assuming Bernard is gone, and assuming Raji starts ahead of Red Bryant, that would leave Bryant and Terril to sub. Raji would almost certainly be an upgrade, and could be a beast. He manhandled the best O-lineman in Mobile, not just in the game but in one-on-one drills and team drills all week. Head and shoulders the best DT in this draft. We can pick up solid OT and WR in round 2 and 3, because those positions are deep with talent, but not DT.
I think Seattle is much more likely to spend free-agent money on Housh (WR), Bart Scott (OLB), Jason Brown (OC) or re-signing Leroy Hill than dropping $12M on Haynesworth.
Moot* point
Also, I kind of find it hard to judge. When you play a sport like basketball, and someone is elbowing you all day or grabbing your hand and no foul is called, you get pissed off. Perhaps pissed off enough to get in a fist fight? I can certainly see that happening to me.
Now imagine it’s football instead where there is infinitely more contact, and the guy who’s ‘elbowing’ you is 300+ pounds and can bench 500 pounds. In the heat of the moment anyone can lose their cool. I don’t blame a guy for something like that.
Now if he had said ’I’m going to kick Andre’s ass on Sunday, I’m going to physically harm him illegally’ and then he went ahead and did that, then I’d say yes, that raises a character concern because in a rational moment without any heat of the moment emotions clouding his judgment, he made a premeditated decision to harm another person.
Everyone gets pissed off playing sports though. And I agree with your post about Raji. If Raji is even 60% of the price of Haynesworth, you have to take Haynesworth, because Haynesworth is guaranteed to be pretty damn good, Raji is a risk.
As for Housh, I think Housh is great, but will he transform our offense into an elite offense? Yeah probably/possibly. Will Haynesworth transform our defense into an elite defense? As long as we sign or draft a decent or even slightly below average safety, then almost definitely in my mind.
I think that's an argument
to defend against your “generic” personal foul penalties like hitting a guy late, while out of bounds, or too hard. It’s worth pointing out that Haynesworth’s manifestation of rage is fairly unique.
Raji is actually bigger than Haynesworth
Or heavier at least, he’s 344 and haynesworth is 5 inches taller than him and 24 pounds lighter.
Raji is a big boy!!
He is the single most disruptive defensive force...
…in football today. This guy is the closest thing you’ll see to Joe Greene, the updated version. I became convinced of this when I wrote about his performance against the Vikings this season:
We saw just how dangerous Haynesworth is, and how much his opponents respect his formidable skills, on Minnesota’s final two drives of the day. With 3:55 left in the game and the Vikings at their own 10, right defensive tackle Tony Brown shot through and gave Gus Frerotte a huge hit just as he released the ball. This led to a Nick Harper interception, and Frerotte was out of the game. I wondered how Brown got to Frerotte so easily until I replayed the action and discovered that the Vikings were triple-teaming Haynesworth with Hutchinson, Birk, and right guard Anthony Herrera.
If you wanted to make a compelling argument that you are the best defensive tackle in the game, you could start with this line: “I was triple-teamed by Steve Hutchinson and two other guys.” Try and find someone else who can say that about themselves. Harper returned the interception to the Minnesota 6, and rookie sensation Chris Johnson scored on the next play. Now, the Vikings had to try and erase a 13-point deficit with 3:32 left in the game, and Tarvaris Jackson facing the Tennessee defense. Not the most attractive of options.
He is the one free agent signing that could put me 100 percent back on the rickety Ruskell bandwagon. This isnt just a mauler — he’s a potential game-changer on every single defensive snap for his team. You get about as many Albert Haynesworths as you get Steve Hutchinsons.
Just seems like such a pipe dream
maybe that’s just from years of never getting a top free agent—or I should say THE top free agent—in his prime to play for Seattle. But even beyond that, I just don’t see how we could put together a package attractive enough—and superior to other potential suitors’ packages—to get him here.
I am trying to avoid developing a taste for some Albert Haynesworth only to be disappointed when Seattle isn’t even part of the discussion if/when he actually hits the market. Even a smart, low cost/high upside signing like Shaun Cody would then be terribly unsatisfying.
The probability of Albert Haynesworth ending up in Seattle can’t even be 10%.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I remember
I remember when you wrote that originally, Mr. Farrar. It wormed it’s way into my mind, and it comes up every time someone says “Albert Haynesworth is a free agent of interest.”
chance of haynesworth ending up in seattle is probably 4%
Because every team would be better with him on it. Just like if Asomugha hit free agency . almost every nfl team has cap space. Sure we have a poor chance at getting him because we probably have 31 competitors. Still…we can dream.
Add me
Add me to the chorus of people who’d love to see Haynesworth in a Seahawks uniform but doubts it will actually happen. The Seahawks might have the cap space, but there are other teams with more. Seattle could be a Superbowl contender next year but they enter the season with alot of question marks; there are definitely quite a few teams that seem like better bets for a guy looking for a ring. He doesn’t seem to have any ties to the area or any of the Seahawks other players or coaches. At least it’s safe to say that Paul Allen is still rich. Overall, some hope but the odds don’t seem good.
I would love to have this guy,
but the logic seems exactly the opposite of the platoon the LBs post.
Now, why does it make sense to get plenty of first line talent on the Dline (paying up the ass for it btw), so platooning isn’t necessary; but settle for only two LBs who can do the full job and platoon the third position because you don’t have a guy talented enough do the whole job?
One reason is that it's safe to say that Haynesworth would have a bigger impact on our defense than Hill would.
Also consider we have all-pro linebackers at two of the three spots without Hill, and will lose Bernard to FA, most likely. If I had to choose between Hill and Haynesworth it’s no contest.
The gap in talent between superior DT and a "good" DT...
is like the difference between Haynesworth and Haloti Ngata. It’s enormous, and that’s no knock on Ngata who is a good, solid DT. There are less than a handful of guys in the league, who, in their primes, are practically impossible to block without extra, extra attention. Without thinking hard I’d put Haynesworth, Kevin Williams, and Tommy Harris (of two years ago) in that category. Marcus Tubbs had the potential to enter that category (sigh). The dropoff to the next tier of guys is substantial (e.g., Ngata, Mebane, Dockett, Sean Rodgers). I’m not even quite convinced that the gap between elite QBs (e.g., P. Manning and Brady) and the next tier (Hass, Roethlisberger, McNabb, Brees—all when healthy) is as wide.
The gap between elite LBs and the next tier doesn’t even approach the DT gap… and Leroy Hill is not even in the elite LB group (yet). He’s in the 2nd tier (with the likes of Carlos Dansby), where the dropoff to the the next tier isn’t very high.
Put it this way, if Seattle had Haynesworth, Mebane, and Bernard in their rotation. We probably wouldn’t be having a serious conversation about letting Haynesworth hit the open market, and platooning to get a reasonable approximation of his production on the cheap. Houston has done little at this point to suggest that they aren’t going to open the vault to avoid letting Haynesworth sniff the market.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I think you're underrating Ngata there
I’d take him over Haynesworth, depending on the system, and I’d certainly take him over Tommie Harris.
I'd also put Ngata pretty high up, just after Haynesworth.
Same wtih Jamaal Anderson (I think his name is) of the Chargers.
The Charger guy
is Jamal Williams. Jamaal Anderson plays for the Falcons.
Williams is good.
I probably should have chosen different adjectives. My tendency is to understate. “Good, solid player” has been applied to guys like Brian Russell so often the words have reached the point of damning with faint praise. That’s not my intent with guys like Ngata, Rogers, or Williams. Those guys are 4 out of 5 stars. But the distance between that fourth and fifth star is substantial.
For pure disruption, Haynesworth is the closest thing we’ve seen to Reggie White in Philly. Tommie Harris has peaked at that kind of disruption, but he hasn’t been able to sustain it. So I’ll back off Harris, but that goes to show the kind of rare talent we’re talking about with Haynesworth.
Those guys don’t get to FA.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Jan 30, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
I’d actually put Ngata and Rogers in a tier just below Haynesworth. Ngata has ungodly short-area quickness for a man his size (go back and check out his sack of Roethlisberger in the AFC Championship game, and he’ll also force pressure as a 3-4 end. Rogers is impossible to single-block as a 3-4 nose. When the Browns bring a fourth to the line (usually Kamerion Wimbley), the offensive strategy changes to “double-team Rogers to one side, and run the other way.”
Bernard is done and I'm pretty sure he's a goner.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jan 30, 2009 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
Oh God please make this happen Ruskell.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
why hasn't Haynsworth played an entire season since his rookie year?
Does he get injured every year? Seems odd to me.
ITS ALL ABOUT THE $$$$
http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2009/01/30/titans_dt_haynesworth_give_him_a_boatloa
At least Albert is being honest in that regards!
On the surface I’m 100% in favor of lobbing a fat wad of cash at AH. He and Bang Bang would be freaking dominant.
There are some concerns though. First and foremost he hasn;t played all 16 games since his rookie year. Second: Will he be a guy that gets his cash and then gets lazy, never to acheive that high level of pay.
Third: Are we forgetting about Red Bryant when we talk DT?
Beer, its not just for breakfast anymore.
I don't know if we can infer that Albert might consider coming here, but it sounds good.
I like that he spoke about Allen’s yacht, but that doesn’t tell us that ‘contact has been made’. I take it as just a question to get Haynes. to comment on Seattle, without it being his idea. I wonder how many of the yacht’s permanent crew of 60 would be the type of ‘people’ that could make Albert ‘happy’. Hmm. Give him the grand tour, Mr. Allen. And deliver a dump-truck of cash.
Bryant seems like terrific insurance if Haynesworth gets injured,
which seems pretty likely given his injury history.
by SeaTownBlueDevil on Jan 31, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
I don't want him
I still don’t think he should be in the league after the face stomp
I'm willing to forgive it as its just one incident.
There’s so much dirty play between D-linemen and O-linemen that emotions are bound to overflow. I’d rather have a guy who puts everything he’s got on the field and occasionally stomps on a guy’s face than a guy who doesn’t try hard (kinda like LoJack at some points last year).
by SeaTownBlueDevil on Feb 2, 2009 5:07 AM PST up reply actions
It's Andre Gurode of the Cowboys.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 2, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
Let me repeat: of the Cowboys.
If we signed Haynesworth, I’d impore him to do that again when we play Dallas next season, or maybe on Romo.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 2, 2009 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
For whatever reason,
I’ve bought the Romo hype, and I like him. He seems like a great person, and maybe not so much in 2008, but in 2007 he has some amazing plays.
Romo is trash.
Easily the most overrated, arguably one of the worst.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 2, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
I'd put him top 5 most overrated.
Number 1 certainly goes to Worthlessberger. Matt Cassel is somewhere up there too. I definitely wouldn’t say he’s one of the worst though.
by SeaTownBlueDevil on Feb 2, 2009 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
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