For the Love of God, Do Not Hire Rod Marinelli as Seahawks Defensive Coordinator
Rod Marinelli proved the good soldier to the bitter end. I haven't seen someone ride a bomb with such aplomb since Major Kong. So doing, Marinelli has avoided quarantine. Put his name on the short list for a six figure coordinator job without even a week to reflect on his historic failure.
Marinelli went from this:
To this:
In part because his stiff upper lip, but mostly because his partner in crime, Matt Millen, was once diagnosed with this:
...before finding room for the other 63. Marinelli is Hilary, spinning shame into gold one strained, implacable smile at a time. Nothing a future employer likes like solidarity and martyrdom while working under extreme incompetence. Ask the kissass ineffectual barricaded in his corner office, in your office building, belittling your ideas between the back nine with the boss. They could write a manual on rationalization, self blame and an ability to woo important opinion.
Is Marinelli the Teflon Don or the Gangster's wife? Millen's idea of roster construction was: if you stacked crap high enough you could fit a Lions helmet on top. And public perception of Marinelli is: he was asked to make the Madonna out of manure or, more appropriately, Brooks out of Boss Bailey. Marinelli's the victim here, right?
Except there's a hitch in this entire argument: Boss Bailey isn't that bad and neither was the defense Marinelli inherited. It was young: Eight players who started ten or more games in 2005 were 25 to 28. It was, if not talented, purportedly talented: Seven players who started ten or more games in 2005 were selected in the first three rounds of the NFL Draft. Those young, talented players didn't disappear from the league after leaving Detroit. Shaun Rogers became a top nose tackle in Cleveland. James Hall, now 31, just recorded 6.5 sacks with the hapless Rams. Bailey signed a five year deal with Denver, but was placed on injured reserve after week seven with a knee injury. Andre Goodman signed with Miami, started all of 2008, recorded five picks and played right corner for the Dolphin's 12th ranked pass defense. Dre' Bly was traded to Denver and started 16 games for the Broncos horrawful pass defense. He has seven picks over two seasons and is considered a good if overrated corner despite the superfund site he calls "work". RW McQuarters signed with the Giants and played in 16 games for their Super Bowl champion 2007 team. He's far from good, but as a nickelback, the Giants were good against his presumed assignment, slot receivers (-21.3% DVOA). Terrence Holt started a season for the below average pass defense of the 2007 Arizona Cardinals before failing to find a home on the Panthers, Bears and Saints.
That's not a top collection of talent and few succeeded after seceding from Detroit, but, then, would you hire a Lion? It's talent, mostly starting caliber, and all better than their counterpart in Detroit.
In their first season under Marinelli, the Lions defense declined. A 17th ranked team hidden by a hard schedule, sagged to 23rd (by DVOA) in 2006. Marinelli failed to turn first round pick Ernie Sims and second round pick Daniel Bullocks into quality players. The Snake Charmer, Sims, was selected 9th overall and despite being a one man tackling machine for Detroit, recorded almost no impact tackles. Sims has in three seasons, fewer sacks, interceptions, passes defensed, touchdowns and tackles for a loss than Lofa Tatupu had his rookie season.
The second season saw more costly talent fail to improve a below average unit. Second round picks defensive end Ikaika Alama-Francis and free safety Gerald Alexander have combined for 19 starts over two seasons. 16 of which came from Alexander replacing an injured Bullocks in 2007. When Bullocks returned in 2008, Alexander joined Alama-Francis as talent unfit to start for the worst defense in modern history.
In his third season, Marinell's John Waters-like masterpiece debuted. It was simply divine. His poor eye for talent, inability to develop talent, and unwavering commitment to recreate the great Tampa defense he had some subordinate, unquantifiable role in creating led to Detroit shipping out its best defensive player, Shaun Rogers, signing man cover corner Leigh Bodden to play zone and investing in another fullback sized linebacker, Jordon Dizon. Dizon held until almost August before being a non-factor, non-starter for a nominal NFL defense.
We've done this one before. Marinelli acts classy behind a mike. Once upon a time he barked orders at an insanely talented defensive line. Maybe Tim Ruskell will give him a chance to do that again. He certainly has a hell of a résumé as a defensive line coach. It's not that I'm sure he can't be a good defensive coordinator, it's only that I have no evidence that he can. His time in Detroit was a failure. He shipped out good talent, hand selected busts and railroaded a Tampa 2 into the Motor City with Pinto-like results. He would no doubt attempt the same to the similarly incongruous Seahawks roster. I've defended Tim Ruskell for what I considered good process with sometimes bad results. Hiring Marinelli to run Seattle's defense would not only be bad process, it would almost certainly produce franchise crippling results.
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Actually
Marinelli is a very good coach, and would do a lot to improve Seattle’s defense. Please don’t let the 0-16 situation in Detroit cloud your perception. The 0-16 Lions played a helluva lot harder week in and out than the Cowboys, Jets, or even your Seahawks. Detroit didn’t have any talent, and used 5 different QBs throughout the year because of injuries. Marinelli is a very good coach who conducted himself with class and professionalism throughout a very difficult situation.
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by BigBlueShoe on Jan 6, 2009 4:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
marinelli
I did take note of his professionalism and class in of few interviews throughout the season and I respect that.
However, I have been questioning the idea of Marinelli being added to the Seahawks because of the losing culture and terrible team his was a part of in Detroit. I don’t know much about him as a coach other than he couldn’t win. That’s kind of a big deal. ;)
by Misfit74 on Jan 6, 2009 8:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"The 0-16 Lions played a helluva lot harder week in and out than the Cowboys, Jets, or even your Seahawks."
Yeah, um— I’m gonna have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there.
by lemonverbena on Jan 6, 2009 8:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, you can disagree
You’re wrong. But go ahead and disagree all you want.
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by BigBlueShoe on Jan 7, 2009 5:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I find it amusing that you are making a judgement about the Seahawks level of effort.
I really doubt you’re in any position to make such a call.
by redwolf75 on Jan 7, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Impressively trollish response.
Kudos.
by John Morgan on Jan 7, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How exactly do you know that the Lions played harder than those teams?
by MFAN on Jan 7, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Seahawks problems were not in any way associated with effort.
Beyond that, if Marinelli inspired hard work is so valuable why didn’t it translate into a single win? Or a better than worst of the DVOA era defense. And what does Dan Orlovsky have to do with Seattle bringing in Marinelli as a d coordinator?
by Nate Dogg on Jan 6, 2009 8:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
...Because they didn't have any talent?
I’m not sure why Marinelli is being thrown under the bus for Millen’s numerous franchise-crippling moves. I’m also fairly certain the Rogers-Bodden trade wasn’t his call.
by Fearless Frog on Jan 6, 2009 9:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But he had a hand in asking Bodden to do something he couldn't do
I understand the guy wasn’t given a fair shake with Millen as GM, but the idea that he’ll come in here and push the Seahawks to play harder and that thats somehow valuable enough to make him our defensive coordinator is dumb.
by Nate Dogg on Jan 6, 2009 9:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh. If I'm following this train of thought correctly...
HC has a defensive philosophy. GM trades away their best defensive player for a mediocre CB who doesn’t fit said philosophy. HC , making the most of it, attempts to mold CB to fit his philosophy. CB understandably sucks and coach is blamed.
by Fearless Frog on Jan 6, 2009 10:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Attempts to mold CB to fit his philosophy
Thats what I don’t like. Bodden would be a great precursor to what would happen with Wilson and Jennings were Marinelli hired on.
by Nate Dogg on Jan 6, 2009 11:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wilson might thrive...
in the cover 2. Playing a short zone with his eyes towards the QB? I might drool.
Jennings would have no chance. And it doesn’t really jive with Trufant’s current skill-set, although he probably could hack it.
We have plenty of problems with the scheme, CB’s are probably not the biggest.
by cashless on Jan 7, 2009 1:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My understanding is...
That by hiring Marinelli as their head coach, the Lions took a stance that they’d support whatever he envisioned for the offense/defense. However, one of the most incompetent GMs in history brings in a load of players who don’t match with anything. I apologize as I’m really not trying to sound like a tool, but are you insinuating that Marinelli should have completely changed the way he wanted to run things to fit the player?
by Fearless Frog on Jan 7, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who knows if Marinelli wanted Bodden in return.
But he wanted Rogers gone. That was pretty well publicized that he felt Rogers was a slacker and didn’t want those types around he team.
But I do think it’s important that the HC be able to adapt somewhat to the personnel they are given, or at least be able to persuade the GM to give them talent that fits their scheme.
Millen was incompetent, but I haven’t read anything that suggests he was a control freak – in fact I’ve read the opposite, that he deferred many decisions to his coaches & scouts. And that to me is even more damning about Marinelli,
I just think Marinelli is evidence of the Peter Principle in action. IMO, he’s a good positional coach, but over his head in any bigger role. I wouldn’t be opposed to him coming here to coach DL, but anything else and I’d be worried.
by jteckmann on Jan 7, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I agree,
but good job making a bold prediction. Nothing says you aren’t sure of yourself like a prediction with the words ‘I think’ ‘he may be the worst’ etc.
“Hiring Marinelli to run Seattle’s defense would not only be bad process, it would almost certainly produce franchise crippling results.”
by LantermanC on Jan 6, 2009 5:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Another thing to Consider
Even if he was the defensive coordinator in title, he certainly wouldn’t be on an island running the defense. Jim Mora is going to have a lot to say about the defense. If fact Marinelli would probably be working with d-line a lot even if he was the coordinator. Mora would be handling most of the oversight, I would believe.
What I would be most worried about, would be him trying to bring his son and law with him.
by SA77 on Jan 6, 2009 5:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind him bringing the law with him.
I know someone who fought the law, and the law won.
by LantermanC on Jan 6, 2009 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm most worried about him forcing Seattle into a Tampa 2
though I’m starting to wonder if that’s not fait accompli.
by John Morgan on Jan 6, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That isn't what Mora ran in Atlanta or San Francisco, was it?
I just spent some time trying to find an article that more clearly defined his previous defenses, but no luck.
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Jan 6, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To the best of my knowledge, Mora's never been a big Tampa-2 guy
His D in Atlanta was a lot of cover-1 & cover-3. And he used a more traditional FS/SS split, bringing the SS up in the box a lot more to help against the run. There was a lot of variation between man & zone coverages.
I don’t remember much about his San Fran D’s … only stories about how he’d line Julian Peterson up anywhere on the field (even SS in a few packages)
I think Mora’s main focus is bringing pressure, but I don’t think he’s married to any particular base scheme to do it. He was supposedlyvery creative and willing to try a lot of different looks.
by jteckmann on Jan 7, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that is good to hear
This season’s defense was so incredibly predictable. Seriously, there were times before the snap when I’d be sitting there and the words “OH SHIT” would come out of my mouth before the play even started. The Isaac Bruce play in overtime was the biggest example.
by Jo-Jo on Jan 7, 2009 6:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that was really annoying.
I could tell when and where every blitz was coming from, even Hill’s at Miami.
by Fearless Frog on Jan 7, 2009 9:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was literaly screaming;
“NO, DON’T F—-ING DO THAT” about two seconds before the 9’ers snapped that ball. I’m no genius, but it’s that obvious to me, I can’t imagine what it looks like the DC’s in the booths upstairs, or QB’s at the line of scrimmage. I would have to think that they would be laughing about it.
by Jo-Jo on Jan 8, 2009 8:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You really think Ruskell isn't trying to do that already?
Personally, I think our D would be a disaster in a Tampa 2, but if we’re inevitably moving in that direction, might as well bring someone who has experience with one like Marinelli.
by Fearless Frog on Jan 6, 2009 9:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If the 'Hawks move to cover 2 defense
it will destroy all the work done to aquire talent on the defensive side of the ball that Ruskell has done over the past few years. This personnel ground is the antithisis of a Tampa 2, and if they switch schemes, it will undo this team for years. It will prove that the FO and the sidelines aren’t on the same page and it will be dooms day.
If this is the direction that Ruskell want to go, then why has he spent the better part of 4 years bringing in the kind of defensive talent he has? This would lead me to believe that they are going to go through a complete retooling, and we might have to stock the bomb shelter for a long haul.
by Jo-Jo on Jan 7, 2009 7:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On a somewhat related note,
If Jags gets fired by BC but doesn’t land an NFL head coaching position, he’d be a prime candidate to become Offensive Coordinator.
by ACassel on Jan 6, 2009 6:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I would be ecstatic if we got him as our D-line coach,
and optimistic if he was our DC as long as his focus was the D-line and Mora had a strong hand in running the overall defense.
You can’t forget the reason why we landed Solari. We got him because he was promoted from o-line coach to OC in KC, and ran their offense into the ground. KC fired him, and now we have one of the best o-line coaches in the game.
My concerns about Marinelli would have nothing to do with what happend in Detroit, only the fact that he’s never been a DC. But I do think his fiery approach and willingness to get in players faces, could be the perfect counterbalance to Mora’s “player’s coach” reputation.
by Mind of no mind on Jan 6, 2009 7:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100% wholeheartedly with this.
I also would like to say it’s extremely unfair to marginalize his reputation as a defensive line coach by discarding it with a statement like “he barked orders at an insanely talented defensive line”. You could say that about just any coach in charge of a successful group.
by Fearless Frog on Jan 6, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who are all these defensive linemen he's coached up?
by Nate Dogg on Jan 6, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Warren Sapp, Simeon Rice
He also made a scrub like Chuck Darby into a very competent situational DT for us during our Super Bowl season.
by Fearless Frog on Jan 6, 2009 10:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
John already mentioned this in the fanpost about Marinelli
but Rice was in Arizona for 5 years before signing on with Tampa. His highest sack total, 16.5, was with the Cardinals. Warren Sapp did not require a ton of coaching up to be successful, and competent situation DT is not exactlt a resume builder.
by Nate Dogg on Jan 6, 2009 10:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's interesting to go back and look at the talent he was given in Tampa
Sapp, 12th overall pick
Rice, 3rd overall pick
McFarland, 15th overall pick
Dewayne White, 2nd round pick
Marcus Jones, 22nd overall pick
Regan Upshaw, 12th overall pick
Eric Curry, 6th overall (but only for a year and after he was clearly a bust)
The guys that stand out as having significantly improved or played beyond expectations are Chidi Ahanotu, Brad Culpepper and I guess Darby because he’s made a career for himself in the NFL after being undrafted. What exactly has Marinelli done to deserve his reputation? The more I look into him the more I dislike him.
by Nate Dogg on Jan 6, 2009 11:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally...
I like that he got as much as he did; the Seahawks could put up a similar list of D-line picks with the exception that nearly all of them were busts…
by Azimeir on Jan 6, 2009 11:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Marinelli was the D-line coach in Tampa Bay from 1996-2005 and assistant head coach from 2002-2005. During that time the Buccaneers got valid contributions from Warren Sapp, Chidi Ahanotu, Brad Culpepper, Regan Upshaw, Marcus Jones, Anthony “Booger” McFarland, Steve White, Chatric Darby, Simeom Rice, Greg Spires, Ellis Wyms, Dewayne White, and Chris Hovan. The majority of those guys started their careers in Tampa Bay and the notable exception, Rice, may have had his number 1 year in Arizona, but his 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7 were in his first five years in Tampa under Marinelli. Whether its the ability to recognize, develop, or utilize talent, he’s earned the right to be called a damn good Defensive Line Coach. Unless one were to subscribe to the theory that it was luck for 10 years.
by Azimeir on Jan 6, 2009 11:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know if this has been posted here before or not....
But Warren Sapp recently said that Marinelli had more to do with his success than Kiffin.
I’ll link it below, but this part of the quote;
(he’s talking about Monte Kiffin in the first part here)
Warren Sapp: Oh yeah, I’ve seen him in the middle of a game drawing up a zone dog (blitz) in the middle of a ball game. I looked at Brooks and said, ‘Hey, you see your coordinator up there giving away the defense?’ It’s about him. It’s always been about him. I’ll bark him out of the building. I’ve heard all the stories. I’ll give you an unsung hero …
Cris Collinsworth: Wait a minute. You gotta go back …
Warren Sapp: You want to go back to Kiff?
Cris Collinsworth: You’re doggin’ your guy? That is your guy.
Warren Sapp: My guy is Marinelli.
Cris Collinsworth: Really?
Warren Sapp: My guy is Marinelli. I’ll make it that simple for you.
by Mind of no mind on Jan 7, 2009 12:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sapp is a punk
But good find. The one area I would give him my attention would be his talking about the d line. He’s rude (anyone else hear about his slamming one of the dancing guys into a wall for telling sapp to show up on time, since he was 2 hours late?), full of himself, and annoying; he also was one of the best in the game at his position and if he credits Marinelli for some of that success that’s pretty impressive.
by vanrijn on Jan 8, 2009 12:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It is when that competent situational DT was undrafted and considered not to have a future in the NFL
And his success was purely because of smarts and technique taught by none other than Rod Marinelli. Also, Sapp publicly attributes his success to Marinelli.
by Fearless Frog on Jan 7, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK... the question begged is...
I know, I know… I don’t want to commit a “fallacy of authority” or whatever it’s called, but if Marinelli is so freakin’ terrible why are we even bothering to look at him?
Let’s see… maybe this will turn out to be Ruskell’s ego speaking, insisting we retool the defense into a cover-2?
by djafrot on Jan 7, 2009 12:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Here's a question:
If we are interviewing for a Defensive Coordinator, why the f*ck has there been no announcement about Marshall being fired? Is there some sort of procedural bubkis of which I’m not aware? I would hope that if Marshall were being replaced that someone would’ve taken him aside at some point; I don’t really want to root for one of those teams that treats their people like shit.
by Azimeir on Jan 7, 2009 12:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
That can get somewhat tricky...
Marshall is still under contract I think. Depending on the specifics of his deal he could be reassigned within the organization if they still have to pay him. It happens all the time.
Though it may be damaging to his ego, it’s quite possible that staying in Seattle in some other capacity (at the same pay) could be best for everyone involved. The players and the (presumably) new DC would get some continuity. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that the line for Marshall’s services is probably pretty short. Whatever value he has is probably highest in Seattle. So, maybe they’re trying to work something out.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Jan 7, 2009 4:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sando posted on his blog at ESPN.com
That some of the current coaches, including Marshall, Board, and Gilbertson were privately told by the team that they are free to look for other jobs.
That fits the team’s M.O. – they’re not going to publicly fire a guy. Instead they’ll give them a chance to save face, land on their feet somewhere else, and make it seem that the parting is mutual.
by jteckmann on Jan 7, 2009 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Marinelli
is hired as DC, he won’t run the defense. Mora is going to run the defense even to the extent of calling all the plays, so the weaknesses Marinelli may have displayed as a DC will be far less relevant than they were when he ran a defense in the past.
Of greater concern is who the Seahawks hire as OC. He will be running the offense, apparently.
by VBJohnson on Jan 7, 2009 8:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Being the DC, I'm sure he'll have a say concerning personnel though.
And he did nothing in Detroit to say that he’s an asset when it comes to choosing defensive players. Granted, much of that was Millen’s fault, but that still tells us nothing of Marinelli’s abilities.
by SeaTownBlueDevil on Jan 7, 2009 11:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As John has said
it is very difficult to tell the performance of the coaches. Presumably, though, since Mora is going to be highly involved and in charge of running the defense, it follows that whatever weaknesses Marinelli has will less prominent and perhaps even absent altogether when there is someone who is assigning him duties based upon his strengths and weaknesses.
Being a head coach tends to bring out the weaknesses in a person because the head coach must do many things well in order to succeed. Marinelli wouldn’t have that problem here.
by VBJohnson on Jan 7, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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