In defense of Tim Ruskell
In an attempt to figure out why, exactly, 90% of Hawk Nation wants this guy's head, I decided to look back over his now 5 year reign in Seattle as the GM, from 2005-2009 (I believe he was present in 2004 but not yet GM.) I really don't understand why he takes so much heat from Seattle fans, but figuring that every anti-Ruskell Hawk fan couldn't just be insane, I wanted to piece together a real argument. So...here it is.
I guess the first barometer of a GM's overall success is the team's overall success, so...
05: 13-3 Regular Season, 2-1 Postseason
06: 9-7 Regular Season, 1-1 Postseason
07: 10-6 Regular Season, 1-1 Postseason
08: 4-12 Regular Season
09: 2-4 Regular Season
Overall: 38-32 Regular Season, 4-3 Postseason
Now obviously, things are dropping off so I understand, somewhat, the frustration with Ruskell's moves making us worse over time, but it's very difficult for any team to sustain success over many years, with the nature of the NFL, and we had a streak of 5 straight postseason appearances and 4 straight division titles.
I also see the argument that Holmgren or Bob Ferguson built the super bowl team, which hung over into division winning teams for two years, and has finally fallen apart. Yet I can't help but look over the drafts since 2005...
2005: Chris Spencer, Lofa Tatupu, David Greene, Leroy Hill, Ray Willis, Jeb Huckeba, Tony Jackson, Cornelius Wortham, Doug Nienhaus
Two studs, a capable starter, and someone who might be something in Willis
2006: Kelly Jennings, Darryl Tapp, Rob Sims, David Kirtman, Ryan Plackemeier, Ben Obomanu
Kirtman was a terrible pick from the getgo, and Plack didn't work out, but the first three guys are all contributors, and Obomanu has gone above and beyond what I expect from a 7th round pick.
2007: Josh Wilson, Brandon Mebane, Baraka Atkins, Mansfield Wrotto, Will Herring, Courtney Taylor, Jordan Kent, Steve Vallos
Alright, I fell out of my chair at the Wilson pick...but his corner play has been pretty good for the most part and his return skills are top notch. Mebane is a monster. Atkins...who knows, I like Wrotto, Herring has done good things when he's gotten on the field, Taylor and Kent are admittedly just preseason warriors but it's not totally their fault we've stocked up on WRs recently, and Vallos isn't my favorite guy but he's started games for us.
2008: Lawrence Jackson, John Carlson, Red Bryant, Owen Schmitt, Tyler Schmitt, Justin Forsett, Brandon Coutu
Jackson is a solid starter, Carlson is a beast, Bryant and Schmitt are two guys who really haven't done much yet but I still like them, Tyler I don't know what's going on with him, Forsett was a great steal for us, and Coutu did nothing but good things for us and we were just afraid to pick the youngster over the veteran.
It's folly to judge the 09 draft class at this point in time, but Curry has been playing fairly well, we'll know a lot about Unger this year if the line keeps getting injured, Butler looks like a great #3 or #4 wideout, and Nick Reed is Nick Reed.
That's 4 studs and 14 reasonable picks in 4 drafts, with no egregious busts other than Kirtman who was a 2nd day pick anyway. Were there better players at most of those picks? Sure, but by that logic there are a lot of GMs out there who need to get fired. Now, don't get me wrong, I'd rather have Elvis Dumervil than Darryl Tapp when it comes to undersized pass rushing DEs that went in the 06 draft. Maybe we could have gotten a similar talent to Chris Spencer in a later round and used the 05 first rounder on Roddy White. But on the whole, are these drafts that bad?
If we don't go offensively heavy in the next draft(s), I'll agree Ruskell's mind isn't right, and right about now we sure could use a blue chip offensive linemen. Yet, I can't help but look at the projects at OL we've drafted recently (Unger, Willis, Sims, Wrotto, Vallos), and feel that Tim was at least considering the issue and simply spending lower picks on multiple players to try and hit on a couple of them, so I think the notion that he ignored the position entirely is untrue.
Then you look at the free agent signings, and players Ruskell brought in through methods that were not the draft. Julian Peterson, Nate Burleson, T.J. Houshmanzadeh (too early to judge but I like what I see so far), Colin Cole (same), Bryce Fisher, Cory Redding (same), Deon Grant, Olindo Mare, Jon Ryan...it's a pretty solid group of pickups. Now, I'm not the biggest Julius Jones fan, but I don't think he's the reason we lose games, so I'm not going to say he was a screwup. I will say giving Shaun Alexander that big contract was the wrong call, if ultimately pretty harmless, and the Hutchinson thing was a total fiasco, and Brian Russell apparently had a shelf-life of one season before turning into a complete turd...but I see more positive than negative all around here.
But here's the major reason why I'm not ready to abandon Ruskell: His emphasis on character. I firmly believe what got us to the super bowl in 2005, a year after a 9-7, one-and-done year, was a refocusing on work ethic and character. Ruskell allowed this to happen by cutting players like Anthony Simmons, Koren Robinson, and Chike Okefor, who may have been good players but seemed to underachieve for us and may have been of questionable character. This, to me, changed everything about this team, and Ruskell was the man behind it. Fast forward to 2007, Stevens is coming off an excellent postseason, but he did one stupid thing in the offseason and we realized this guy just doesn't get it. So getting busted with drugs or whatever it was did what dropping 3-4 passes in a super bowl couldn't, and he was gone.
So, could any Ruskell hater explain to me why we shouldn't give him the opportunity to attack a 2010 draft that will have options at quarterback and offensive tackle for us and see what he does?
A place to bury strangers.
3 recs |
92 comments
Comments
"but the first three guys are all contributors"
Yes, but Kelly Jennings is hovering dangerously close to bust status already. He looked promising in limited playing time in 06, was masked by a fantastic pass-rush and a heavily overachieving secondary in 07, and has looked disgustingly bad ever since then.
But here’s the major reason why I’m not ready to abandon Ruskell: His emphasis on character.
I think this is pretty overrated. Ruskell’s character emphasis doesn’t really bother me but I certainly don’t think he’s ever going to build a contending team because they’re all nice people.
I’m probably in the minority of the people who would like to see Ruskell canned the moment this 7-9 season ends. But I do realize he’s probably in a good relationship with Mora and the coaching staff and his contract will likely be extended, and if/when the team continues to struggle in the next several seasons, he’ll get dumped when the coaching staff and front office goes ka-boom.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 31, 2009 10:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's too early.
Being too hasty can lead to greater problems, change in philosophy taking even more time, etc. Give the transition a little time and see.
If we have a good off season fixing the OLine, I think a lot of our problems will be solved. I also think the way he’s gone “focus mode” on certain areas of the team bode well, it is pretty obvious our OLine needs to be fixed.
So yeah, not in favor of letting him go now, but after NEXT year if there isn’t a substantial improvement and direction that is obviously good, then yeah, time to make a change.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Oct 31, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is absolutely no reason our offensive line should have ever gotten to this point in the first place.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 31, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No team can sustain losing 3 players at one position on the offensive line
by Nate Dogg on Oct 31, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How dare you force reality onto Fearless.
by BrianL on Oct 31, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reality bites.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Oct 31, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Horseshit.
I pity the person or people that thought Walter Jones and Mike Wahle were going to be playing for a significant amount of time this season.
Ruskell dropped the ball on the o-line this season and it’s coming back to bite us, just like the WRs last season when Hackett was let go, Bobby was ancient, and Branch injury prone.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 31, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Wahle was cut as soon as it was clear he wasn't going to be able to contribute going forward.
As for Jones, really? Do you really think Ruskell could have gotten away with cutting him or putting him on the IR before the season started?
Be less reactionary and more rational.
by BrianL on Oct 31, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Hackett continued to have injury problems after leaving and Bobby had a freak injury in preseason no one saw coming.
Perhaps Branch should have been PUP’d, but no one saw the injuries to Burleson, Payne, and Obomanu coming within two weeks of each other either.
by BrianL on Oct 31, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
pshaw
Broken collarbones and torn ACLs happen as a result of poor conditioning and overabundance of character.
"Its not that I can't read and write, its just that I don't like to read and write."
-Charlie
by ninjasocks on Oct 31, 2009 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if you don't count Walt, Damion McIntosh\Kyle Williams is no worse than other teams third string LT.
by Nate Dogg on Oct 31, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should have All-Pros filling out our third-string depth dammit.
by BrianL on Oct 31, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frye wasn't horrible as a 3rd-string LT
The problem is that we need All-Pro 4th-string LTs.
"Its not that I can't read and write, its just that I don't like to read and write."
-Charlie
by ninjasocks on Oct 31, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it wrong that I am missing the FF that irrationally thinks Aaron Curry sucks?
Broncos 12 Bengals 7: The story of the 2009 Seattle Seahawks.
by SSreporters on Oct 31, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think all of his Curry hate is irrational.
His LT hate is. Kyle Williams was semi-adequate last year. You can’t expect 3 LTs to go down.
by LantermanC on Oct 31, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Aaron Curry sucks.
I think he will not be significantly better than any of the other OLBs drafted in the first day due to the nature of his position and certainly not to the point where you can justify his draft position. That could just be me pissed at drafting another defensive player when the offense was clearly going to be, well, in the sorry state it is now, but the stats of all the rookie LBs seem to back up these points fairly clearly.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 31, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The justifications for the Curry selection have been presented to you countless times.
We are not having this tired and pointless debate again, so this subthread ends here.
by BrianL on Oct 31, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hackett got hurt again last year.
Branch had the one injury before last year, so calling him injury prone is a label I wouldn’t agree with.
And really, no GM could have foreseen a season where the Seahawks would be down to their 7th to 9th best WR’s.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Nov 1, 2009 8:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh but haven't you heard?
Staying healthy is a skill!!!! Thus TR must be drafting crappy players!!!
by MontanaHawk05 on Oct 31, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but how many starting OL on our team last year finished on IR? Was it 4 or 5?
Not to add that players like Rob Sims have been injury prone for quite some time. Ruskell had fair warning in advance.
Ruskell’s MO when it comes to the OL is obvious. In drafts, Ruskell goes Defense early and goes Defense often. He spends later round picks on OL.
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/seahawks/2009/02/11/the_comprehensi.html
by PattyB on Oct 31, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tim Tebow or bust!
Or maybe Kelly Jennings will suffice.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 31, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seattle should have seen this coming and draft 5000 OLs.
Broncos 12 Bengals 7: The story of the 2009 Seattle Seahawks.
by SSreporters on Oct 31, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he should've known Sims, Walt, Locklear, Spencer, Frye, and Williams were all going to get hurt.
Shame on him for not having 8 capable backups on the O-Line.
by BrettJMiller on Nov 1, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Holding offensive line issues aside for a moment...
How could the 31st overall pick in the 2006 draft be considered a “BUST”? Look how many busts there were in the first round of the 2006 draft. Given the financial obligation we have to Jennings, I would never consider him a bust. A shitty pick and a shitty player yes, but never a bust.
by PattyB on Oct 31, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would you consider a bust then?
The financial obligation doesn’t bother me, the fact that we could’ve drafted a decent player bothered me. Actually I don’t mind so much that Jennings busted, since 1 in 4 years isn’t horrible, I mind that he thought he was worth a first rounder in the first place. Too small, not fast enough, no ball skills.
by LantermanC on Oct 31, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charles Rogers, Mike Williams are busts.
I would consider anyone that completely falls out of the league before he is a FA is a bust.
Jennings is not a great pick. But is still in the League and still contributes.
NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!
by Scruffy Lefty on Nov 1, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure why they fell out of the league. Perhaps because of attitude,
maybe it was better financially to cut them than to keep them. Right now Kelly Jennings is looking like Kelly Herndon. An almost automatic first down every time you throw to the WR he’s covering.
by LantermanC on Nov 1, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed.
He’s not a bust, simply undersized and mediocre. He’ll be in the league long after he’s left Seattle.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
They forgot El-ahrairah, for what use had they for tricks and cunning, living in the enemy's warren and paying his price?
by Wayward Llama on Nov 2, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jennings ran a 4.4 40-yard dash.
He’s not “not fast enough”
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Nov 1, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fine, not capable of doing anything when sticking on a guy.
Except that one awesome play he almost made today.
Also, 40 yard speed is not as important as ability to change direction or run 10 yards.
by LantermanC on Nov 1, 2009 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Jennings problem is any derivative of speed.
He can stay with the receiver fine, but it all goes downhill from there.
by redwolf75 on Nov 1, 2009 10:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps not a bust in the most severe sense of the word like a Courtney Brown or such.
But I find it extremely disappointing that for a first-round pick, Kelly Jennings is not really a useful contributor on the field. I don’t think there are many people who’d disagree with burying him as far as possible on the depth chart.
Though I suppose you can argue that he wasn’t ever a first-round talent in the first place
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 31, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ruskell's character concerns have nothing to do with players being "nice people"
They are all about ensuring that players work hard, fulfill their potential, work well as a team and show up on Sundays ready to play. No player in the modern NFL is going to succeed on talent alone. They need to put in their work in weight room and studying the playbook. They need to work within a unit and embrace the concept of “team”. They have to have enough inner strength to bounce back from a blown play or a lost game and enough sense not to go out boozing the night (or morning) before a game.
Without character you get talented players that underachieve and make their teams worse.
"Its not that I can't read and write, its just that I don't like to read and write."
-Charlie
by ninjasocks on Oct 31, 2009 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or you get players that have underachieved thus far
and then put in the work and achieve beyond what you would expect for a guy who’s been doing everything right thus far in his career.
by LantermanC on Oct 31, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the FA acquistions
While it seems to be very popular, I think its short-sighted and simplistic to evaluate a GM’s performance by looking at the draft only. Its also troublesome to compare the 1st-round picks taken in the top of the draft to picks in the bottom of the round.
In order to avoid going into the draft with gaping holes, Timmah tries to address any outstanding weaknesses in the FA market. Typically, he signs underrated veterans that will contribute but won’t dazzle. Then, in the draft, he’s able to stick to his draft board and sign the BPA.
Ruskell’s taken a largely conservative approach to building the team that doesn’t produce as many home runs but also doesn’t produce as many strikeouts.
"Its not that I can't read and write, its just that I don't like to read and write."
-Charlie
by ninjasocks on Oct 31, 2009 6:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think another elephant in the room people ignore is the signing of Colin Cole.
I can’t fathom what the purpose of that was because most know that size does not necessarily equal stoutness vs. the run, and nothing about Cole’s performance has proved that wrong so far. It looks like another Brian Russell move.
"Mayhap a hidden door lurks nigh. Let us search the environs."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 31, 2009 11:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Elephant in the room, pun intended?
by LantermanC on Oct 31, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually agree with you there.
I did not agree with the signing of Cole, and the amount that was thrown at him, but what do you think Tim Ruskell should have done? Thrown a record contract at Albert Haynesworth?
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Nov 1, 2009 8:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think 90% of fans want Tim Ruskell gone
If this thread is an indication, I’d guess its 90% the other direction. But seriously, even on less intellectual/more reactionary sites that discuss this, I’d say its at best 50/50.
Whether or not you want Ruskell back isn’t completely about his performance. Its partly political. For example, I lean slightly in favor of not extending Ruskell despite his good traits because I’ve long felt his values are out of sync with my own. Of what I consider the “core” pieces of a good football team (in order of importance)- QB, OL, DL, and Secondary, Ruskell has shown an interest in fortifying the latter two but has been fairly uncommitted to the first two. Parts of the team I think should not be emphasized- namely LB and RB, have been two areas where Ruskell has splurged, particularly at LB ($128 million in contracts for starting 3, while Hawthorne and Herring ride the bench). At RB, he had the Shaun deal, and then gave two decent contracts to Jones/Duckett when Shaun bombed out.
To me, building a team is first about building an offense that can score with anyone and control the game. You do that with a (healthy) franchise QB and an OL that wins at the line of scrimmage every snap and keeps that QB healthy while paving the way for some anonymous 3rd round future star RB.
His hesitancy to replace Hasselbeck even though its obvious Hasselbeck does not have much time left, seems to indicate a fear. Ruskell was part of a front office that picked Matt Schaub, but he also picked Dilfer, Greene, and traded for Frye. To be fair- maybe Ruskell simply hasn’t seen anything he’s loved (Sanchez, etc). But when you consider that the last time he committed more than a 3rd round pick to a QB was for Trent Dilfer, it makes him seem gun-shy.
Regarding OL. Ruskell’s had some shitty luck. You simply can’t hold him accountable for the injuries the last two years. But even before that, it was a failing line. Look up the FO stats for OL since 2006. You’ll see Seattle in the bottom 5 pretty much every year since in both metrics (ASR & ALY). Injuries sabotaged the OL- but they also helped cover up the fact that it was at best mediocre and likely less. I don’t think Ruskell is a complete retard with the OL- I think he knows how to evaluate the talent. I just wish he had invested a bit more and aimed higher than “serviceable.” Because I consider the OL to be a vital component to a competitive team, its an area where a front office should strive for excellence- the same way that you wouldn’t want to settle for a serviceable QB if you had serious aspirations for a championship.
Ruskell has pissed me off a few times (I won’t get into that), so that probably creates some bias: I’d be a little happy about seeing him leave. But he’s definitely a smart guy and if he re-prioritizes a bit, I could easily see myself becoming a future supporter of his. So while I’m leaning against him, it wouldn’t ruin my life if he was extended. He’s got some issues, but he’s not a bad GM.
by kearly on Nov 1, 2009 1:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I do not want Ruskell fired.
I still have complete faith in him.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Nov 1, 2009 7:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Eww, your sig
:|
Sorry, Jake Locker is the future.
by the777joker777 on Nov 1, 2009 9:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jake Locker probably isn't going to declare this year and who knows if Seattle is going to wait to select a QB.
by BrianL on Nov 1, 2009 9:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough, but
Sam Bradford is still a spread QB with mediocre measurements. If he goes in the first round at all I facepalm.
by the777joker777 on Nov 1, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LMAO.
Sam Bradford, a “spread” QB?
That’s an ignorant statement.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Nov 3, 2009 10:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've heard the spread claim for all the Big 12 QBs (McCoy Zac Robinson, Graham Harrell).
I’m not sure about the mediocre measurements part since there’s not much to measure on a QB besides height, and perhaps 40 speed?
You cant’ measure pocket awareness (hard to tell with his 2008 o-line), recognition, risky throws, locking in one receiver a-la Delhomme style, accuracy, and touch, or at least not very well. If Bradford truly falls to the 8th or so pick, I think we’d be insane not to take a chance on him (if Berry, Gerald McCoy, or Suh are available, I retract my statement).
by LantermanC on Nov 4, 2009 8:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be everyone's dream
But it’s just not going to happen.
by aerozeppelin on Nov 1, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Over at the Dawg Pound, they seem to think it is 50/50 at the absolute best that he stays.
So that means he’ll possibly be out there. I don’t know if he would be available when we draft or not, but he would certainly merit serious consideration if he is…
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Nov 1, 2009 11:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Locker rules
I would cry purple tears of happiness if the Seahawks managed to pull Locker out of the draft next year.
One thing I was thinking about is that the Hawks seemingly could draft only OT and QBs the whole draft and really still be fine. There are some positions of want, but we have youth and depth at most spots now. Right?
by crnchber on Nov 2, 2009 11:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ruskell deserves criticism
One cannot criticize a former GM for leaving the cupboard bear when in fact the cupboard was not. Nor is the cupboard bare today.
- The issue is not “is there talent on the Seattle team directly attributed to Ruskell”.
- The issue is not “Ruskell added value to teams that went to the playoffs 4 straight years”
- The issue is not “he is a class guy and has good things for the Seattle organization”
The issue is the direction, vision, leadership, decision, focus, prioritization, and approach to them:
Direction: Tampa 2 defense with hybrid West Coast offense
Vision: To become Tampa Bay West
Leadership: Allowed Holmgren to hang on, causing conflict in leadership and player/scheme development
Decision: To hire a coach within when it was not necessary and more qualified candidates existed
Focus: The myopic development of defense with a total disregard for top quality talent on offense
Prioritization: To take defense at the expense of offense in drafts where offensive talent equaled or trumped defensive talent
Approach: Injured, aged, expensive FA at the expense of the development of younger players with potential
Pick a path and follow it Mr. Ruskell. The criticism you are reciving is justly earned. Your team, for all the talent on paper is getting blown out. Your hand picked defense and leadership is failing. In the real world, this gets people fired.
It is what it is...
by kidder95 on Nov 2, 2009 1:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the proactive approach to asking for Ruskell's head.
I ROCK out with my HAWK out, therefore I am....
by durteehawk on Nov 2, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, not my intention
When I put a program together for the bank, I have to provide the business purpose, the business value add, the approach, the leadership, and the team to get it done. I must show clear milestones on how we, as a team, will reach our goals.
My point is simply that the Ruskell/Holmgren player debate is tired and unworthy of comment. That the truer value in Ruskell being criticized is that he has shown to be to easily swayed in the matters of tough leadership, and staying the course.
Picking players is one thing, and he is fine at that. Picking players, defining a focus, and then waffling is a whole other matter. And for this, he is justly criticized.
And, in my work example: if I do not deliver the goods. Or I deliver and the product fails, I have only one place to look: The mirror.
Criticism is a just component of a job that is paid for by selling a product. All I’ve done is criticize. I’ll leave to the powers that be to decide the future.
It is what it is...
by kidder95 on Nov 2, 2009 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One note, however.
I’m not sure if your evaluation metric or rubric is correct.
First, you assume he COULD have gotten rid of Holmgren. Very analytical of you, but I’m not sure the fans would be okay with that…
You also assume he wants to create “Tampa Bay West” in the image of another team. However, I’m not sure his goal was that specific. I think he wanted to start with “similar to…” as a beginning and work out organically from there once he got “his people” in place. Calling for his head in year one of having his people in place is far too quickly. You aren’t allowing anything organic to develop. Coaching staffs working together and developing something unique and new takes time. This staff has been together less than a year, and there was NO WAY Ruskell could (or should, for that matter) have pushed Holmgren out earlier.
This is a team that had holes. Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but ALL teams go through that, particularly in transition. This decade’s powerhouses— Indy, NE and Pittsburgh were weak sisters in either much of the 90’s, or 80’s, or both. If it was as easy as hire a couple new guys, draft and sign a couple new guys and you win 10-12 games, there would be a hell of a lot more 10-12 game win teams from time to time.
“Families are always rising and falling in America.” So are teams. To expect to always win or to immediately win is completely unreasonable. To put a bottom line on organic development is likely poundfoolish and pennywise.
If if if if if… football is a game of ifs. If Big Walt is healthy the last couple years. If Locklear was healthy the last couple years. If Spencer was just a little better. If Hutch didn’t totally manipulate a situation screwing the team. If Sims never went down for injuries. Those are the ifs we’re used to hearing. But how about this—
If big Walt and Locklear both went down in the 2005 season, would you be so upset at Ruskell today? I think because we got so close and we could taste it, we seem to think it is a birthright to get there. Please, don’t tell me we’re turning into Yankee/NE/BoSox fans! We must appreciate the fact that Ruskell is working hard to rebuild this team, and a couple things haven’t turned out as we as we would have hoped.
As far as some of your evaluations, safe to say I disagree completely.
Vision: To become Tampa Bay West
-(addressed above.)
Leadership: Allowed Holmgren to hang on, causing conflict in leadership and player/scheme development
-(addressed above)
Decision: To hire a coach within when it was not necessary and more qualified candidates existed
-It was necessary if you felt he was the guy he wanted, otherwise we likely would have lost Mora to someone else. Not sure more qualified candidates existed, or if they did, wanted to come to Seattle. We got a guy that has had NFL success, had the possibility of learning from past mistakes, and what’s more, really WANTED to be in Seattle. Looks like a home run to me.
Focus: The myopic development of defense with a total disregard for top quality talent on offense
-Oversimplification. He did get some top quality talent, while also allowing more experienced top quality offense players to try to resume their careers injury free. Didn’t work. But he didn’t completely disregard the O, and to say he does is a disservice to Carlson, to Housh, to every offensive lineman drafted or signed (whether it worked out or not) in the past few years.
Prioritization: To take defense at the expense of offense in drafts where offensive talent equaled or trumped defensive talent
-Says who? A) Were we more talented offensively or defensively? If offensively, shouldn’t we focus on improving the D? B) Even if all things were equal, did the offensive talent absolutely trump the defensive talent drafted?
You don’t get to have it all. Decisions have to be made. Did/have his decisions always worked out? No. But that’s the way it is for most teams. Things don’t always work out.
Approach: Injured, aged, expensive FA at the expense of the development of younger players with potential
-Another opinion piece. I think he tried to blend the two together.
Honestly, I think you are a complete pessimist, but despite your desire to be a pragmatist, you aren’t. You create a cold hard analytical environment of 20/20 hindsight vision and say, “See, he was wrong here!” I think he’s done pretty well transitioning us, and if we don’t lose our shit and get rid of him, we’ll see significant benefits in future years.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Nov 2, 2009 4:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I do not disagree on my pessimistic ways
I can tell you that true business is based on a bottom line.
Bottom line is that in 5 years:
- The defense has not improved
- The offense has regressed
- The talent pool has not increased, nor decreased
- The team has regressed as a whole
I am all for Ruskell staying. But as you pointed out, Ruskell’s approach of organic growth with some fuzzy logic as to the direction of the team would be well replaced with firm concepts.
There is a fine line between pessimism, objectiveness, and optimism. It generally depends on the individuals view of the context. And with that, we can agree to disagree.
Thanks much for you comments!
It is what it is...
by kidder95 on Nov 2, 2009 6:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wow, starting to look like BILLT is posting comments here
your comments are way too long to read. I understand you want to make a point to argue with Kidder95 but come on. Geeez already.
I ROCK out with my HAWK out, therefore I am....
by durteehawk on Nov 3, 2009 8:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm.
Not sure if you are trying to be funny or what. I didn’t find it so. But I will try to cut down a little to appease you.
Can you use proper punctuation and spelling in return, along with coherent thought?
Just sayin’.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Nov 3, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
for a guy who is not a mod you sure are bossy.
You just like pissing people off don’t you. Seriously, what gives with the shit talkin? You are lucky this is the internet, because I usually kick the shit out of someone for talking as much shit as you do.
I ROCK out with my HAWK out, therefore I am....
by durteehawk on Nov 3, 2009 9:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
Who insulted who here?
Anyway, my bad. Didn’t mean to write responses that don’t suit your fancy.
I’d much rather have a beer and a dialogue with you than a fight, but again, to each his own. Everyone resolves conflicts differently.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Nov 3, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mods may delete this, but I want to put it out there regardless...
I don’t believe I have ever bashed anyone, you including, and if I have or even appear to you to have, I apologize sincerely.
But in regard to your complaint that grammar and spelling don’t matter, I for one care, and I’m sure others do as well.
It goes beyond me caring, or being “anal” or however it is phrased.
When you use poor grammar, punctuation and spelling, it reduces the power of your words and makes your thought look less significant than it might be. You don’t have to have everything completely correct to draw the reader in, but paying attention to spelling and grammar shows a level of attentiveness to your thought and voice, and it makes a stronger impact for your words.
When I try to remind someone of grammar or spelling, I don’t do it because I’m on a high horse, I do it because I want each and every individual to have their voice be heard. I’ve taught English at the high school level, and through that experience I know not everyone has the level of attentiveness to grammar that I do, but I also know that everyone wants their voice to be heard.
A good way to make yourself be heard is to have a thoughtful well presented voice. It shows you are attentive about not only your voice, but the attention of your audience. You essentially invite them in. And it IS a matter of attentiveness. Kind of like that quote about "Are you listening, or just waiting for your turn to talk."
Another reason to raise the bar in regard to grammar and spelling is because a re-reading for errors may also allow you to reduce the reflexive and aggressive nature of your words. If you are angry and you type, you may not regret it, but you might put something out there that will negatively affect others impression of you, hence again, reducing the power of your voice. I even edited this compared to when I first wrote it, to make sure it didn’t come out too harshly— even if my intent wasn’t for it to be harsh.
Bottom line, I’m really not trying to be a dick, or rile you up, or anything else. I hope you take that to heart. Since you’ve started posting here, I’ve seen you go what I would think is "a little too far" multiple times with aggressive comments, either toward the Hawks/Management, or toward other posters.
And perhaps that’s "your thing" to be ultra aggressive. But it’s too bad, because it likely will eventually fall on deaf ears. I mean, seriously, you threatened to kick my ass because you don’t like the way I write. How does that solve anything, particularly when my intentions are not bad in the first place?!?
In the long term, does that make me see your words as significant and thought out or brash. And maybe that’s your desire (and it is certainly your right) to distance yourself from me. But what if, while doing that, you alienate yourself from other reader/posters as well. Then the power of your voice is again dampened.
I was seriously about the beer, Durtee. I would much rather have a beer and talk Hawks and even disagree with you, than to fight you about it. Fighting solves little. Communication and bonds of brotherhood, however, have far greater potential.
We’re in this together, my brother. Seriously. We’re fans of a disappointing franchise mired in a troubled time of great potential for both success and failure, a team from a city that lost its only pro level champions in the last couple years, and a decade ago saw 3, maybe 4 HoF baseball players on the same team at the same time and yet still couldn’t even get to the World Series.
We’re lords of loss, survivors of sorrow
Still we have dreams of winning tomorrow.
Go Hawks!
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Nov 3, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
If you think that constitutes "shit talk" you must get in a lot of fights.
by thebyron on Nov 3, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Christ, lighten up.
I see nothing wrong at all with whiskey’s post.
by redwolf75 on Nov 3, 2009 11:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. Seriously.
Chill out dude, before you get banned. No need for all that.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
They forgot El-ahrairah, for what use had they for tricks and cunning, living in the enemy's warren and paying his price?
by Wayward Llama on Nov 4, 2009 3:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You guys missed his deleted post.
And some deleted comments in this thread as well.
by LantermanC on Nov 4, 2009 8:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw them...
I had it up and put that long “grammar post” either here or in that one, but by the time I commented it was gone. It was pretty intense… did he get banned?
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Nov 4, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt he's a dick in real life, but he
seems to be new to this “internet thing.”
by redwolf75 on Nov 4, 2009 3:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's aiight.
He did get banned, but Durtee sent me an email and apologized off the public scope.
I’m putting it in public that we had a productive dialogue through email about what happened and what his general tone on comments has been, and I think he should be given a chance to be unbanned.
Everyone makes mistakes, and it’s tough to learn from them, or even be willing to try. It’s a pretty classy thing to reach out to me privately to personally apologize, and I give Durtee kudos for that.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Nov 4, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks,
I had to bite the bullet and apologize to John too. I just went a little crazy.
I ROCK out with my HAWK out, therefore I am....
by durteehawk on Nov 5, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome back.
Glad to see you got a second chance.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Nov 5, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you sir
good to be back. There aren’t any other blogs about the Hawks I follow other than FG and DKSB.
I ROCK out with my HAWK out, therefore I am....
by durteehawk on Nov 6, 2009 6:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good Lord.... I wish I had some butter to go on this popcorn.
From “Let’s step outside” to “kissy poo” in one sub-thread? You guys didn’t even give it enough time to let the vegas odds get out on your death match.
Great entertainment value.
In all seriousness… it’s good to see the mature approach to reconciliation.
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
by iverson2169 on Nov 6, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ee gads
it was just a little tiff.
It wasn’t even a fight, we just stood in the middle of the ring clinching.
At least nobody had ate any earios…
I ROCK out with my HAWK out, therefore I am....
by durteehawk on Nov 9, 2009 7:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was the "I usually kick the shit out of" reference....
but I dont even think it got to clinching….
This was more like one of those cool pre-fight weigh-ins where Larry Holmes comes flying over a table with spectacular irrelevance.
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
by iverson2169 on Nov 9, 2009 5:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
I ROCK out with my HAWK out, therefore I am....
by durteehawk on Nov 10, 2009 6:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
From whiskey's last post, maybe he isn't a bad guy.
But, between your comment and whiskey’s response, I couldn’t help but recall this old theory.
by Mind of no mind on Nov 4, 2009 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This probably matters to just me, but "Plack didn't work"
I think he was great, he was scapegoated after one bad game (that is my recollection) and our new punter is way worse than Plack.
Bring Plack Back! (He’s a FA too)
by GarethLewin on Nov 2, 2009 3:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Plack got cut because he tore his pec
and you don’t keep a roster spot open for a punter. He was great at pinning the ball but his distance left something to be desired.
"Its not that I can't read and write, its just that I don't like to read and write."
-Charlie
by ninjasocks on Nov 2, 2009 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I remembered him playing past the injury and then sucking for one game
Something like this http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3578168
But maybe there are other details I forgot, did it turn out he was still injured?
by GarethLewin on Nov 2, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think his recovery wasn't 100% at that point
"Its not that I can't read and write, its just that I don't like to read and write."
-Charlie
by ninjasocks on Nov 2, 2009 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fudge was terrrible
at punting percentages. The only thing he was good for was a big boot. No accuracy and a fat ass. John Ryan is just fine.
I ROCK out with my HAWK out, therefore I am....
by durteehawk on Nov 2, 2009 3:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He was much better at putting it inside the 20, perhaps the most important thing a punter can do.
It isn’t really arguable.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Nov 2, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A friendly reminder to those calling for Ruskell's head.
Things can change quickly. (0:21)
by thebyron on Nov 3, 2009 1:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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