It's "Suh" Like Supremacy Game Thread
He is Rob Rang's number one overall prospect. He could move Big Bane back to where he established himself as one of the best young defensive tackles in football, simultaneously displacing Colin Cole. He is built like a true three-tech, rather than a 3-4 end/4-3 tackle hybrid, and has the kind of size, athleticism and explosion to be an Albert Haynesworth type force.
Ndamukong Suh plays tonight, but it's on ESPN, so I won't see it. The true test of a great defensive tackle is his supremacy, so to speak. It doesn't show in the individual stats. It's about dominating matchups. It's an ability to beat and punish any single blocker. It's an ability to whoop ass on the occasional double team. And it's one thing Brandon Mebane does not have, an ability to get past that blocker or double team and close and explode into the ball carrier. To take that threat and make it a crisis.
If you're around and have time to watch the game, I am interested in opinions on Suh. I want to like him, but I haven't seen enough to know. Longtime readers know: Seattle getting a great defensive tackle is a bit of an obsession of mine. My interest piqued when I saw Nebraska is leading all D1 teams in scoring defense. That could be a sign Suh is stepping into his talent and becoming an elite prospect.
This is a thread to talk Suh or just the game.
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121 comments
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Comments
Hey John, does your ISP give you ESPN360.com?
Because some do and it streams most of these college games online.
by aerozeppelin on Oct 8, 2009 5:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the idea
but I’ve tried. No dice.
by John Morgan on Oct 8, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sent you an email...
Check it if you want to be able to watch the game….
by StonerHawks on Oct 8, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His name sounds totally badass
His game is going to be great in Seahawk blue (green?).
Seattle is cursed. For life.
by SSreporters on Oct 8, 2009 6:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ooh some terrible weather tonight in Missouri
Seattle is cursed. For life.
by SSreporters on Oct 8, 2009 6:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Suh with a nice chase of the Missouri QB and he forces the throw away
That was some quick pass rushing.
Seattle is cursed. For life.
by SSreporters on Oct 8, 2009 6:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ndamukong Suh vs. Gerald McCoy?
I’ve watched them both play and both are tremendous athletes and players, and both are impressive at getting into the backfield. Interestingly enough, both are listed as 6037 but Suh is about 7-10 lbs heavier. Am I speculating correctly that Suh gets the nod over McCoy as a three-tech in your analysis because he’s about 10lbs heavier and appears to be stronger?
by scratchandsniff on Oct 8, 2009 6:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They are listed at 6037?
That’s interesting.
And Suh just got some good pressure again on 3rd down and Missou punted away.
Seattle is cursed. For life.
by SSreporters on Oct 8, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty good
He got a sack, forced a fumble, and hobbled (at least) the qb. That’s, suh, pretty good. Oh, I’m sorry about that last bit.
by jeager on Oct 8, 2009 6:29 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Goodness me
thinking about an O-Line of Suh\Mebane with Lojack\Tapp\Redding seeing time at the ends just gave me heart palpitations.
by Bildo on Oct 8, 2009 6:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Having a servicable O-line would be nice too
by aerozeppelin on Oct 8, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be serviceable if it could stay healthy.
I think with the first 2 picks, we need to get 2 of the 4 of QB, DT, and S or OT assuming good value is there at the picks.
If Ruskell is satisfied with a Campbell-type I guess I’d be fine with it since it would just mean we go a different direction in the draft.
by LantermanC on Oct 8, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To put it lightly, I would say it would be an egregious error to pass on a QB in this draft
with the excuse that we’re okay because we have Jason Campbell.
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 8, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Say Denver craps it up, and we never get healthy,
what’s better, Campbell (and I guess cutting Hasselbeck and maybe Kerney as well), Suh, and Berry?
Or Bradford, Suh/Berry, and getting a DT, S, or OL in free agency?
I’m actually guessing we can get a OL in round 2, Charles Brown or Sam Young-type.
by LantermanC on Oct 8, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Campbell was pretty awful last week.
I’m leaning towards QB in the draft unless maybe Philly wanted to part with Kolb.
by thebyron on Oct 9, 2009 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good God.
Just the thought of Jason Campbell as the Hawks starting QB makes me dry heave.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Oct 9, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not too high on him either.
But if Ruskell truly wants to build a dominant defense, I think Berry and Suh would be the way to go. Drafting a QB is essential, but it would suck to draft one and have him be an Alex Smith. At least we know Campbell is kind of competent? Just give him the Ben Roethlisberger/Tom Brady first year treatment.
by LantermanC on Oct 9, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be only slightly more receptive to Campbell if our defense showed any flashes of being dominant.
Right now, I’m not even sure if it will be in the top half of the NFL by season’s end considering the performance so far.
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 9, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we still had Holmgren I wouldn’t be completely against getting Campbell, I think Holmgren could turn him into another Hasselbeck. Mora on the other hand I don’t think has what it takes to mold anybody into anything.
He’s not a bad QB, he just needs good coaching.
by Kevin M Smith on Oct 9, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to disagree
But then again, I’m in the best player available camp. I think our biggest needs are LT and QB. Great franchises don’t draft for need though. Maybe that’s overblown, but I think especially for 1st round picks, you can’t pass up elite talent for need.
If both players grade out the same, let’s go for need. Guys like Suh and Berry aren’t there every draft, and the QB class next year could be the deepest in a while, so maybe we get a great guy in round 2.
Most stuff I’ve read had possibly 6 guys rated higher than Sanchez/Stafford, but who knows where they’ll go.
I think Suh sounds more like Sapp than Carriker – so i wouldn’t question the pick if the Hawks went that way.
by PerryCollective on Oct 9, 2009 9:27 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
John, I take it then....
That you subscribe to the notion that a team should fix it’s most glaring weaknesses regardless of how much they have invested into the position already?
If so, I would agree, but it scares me to death. If a Mebane, Suh, Tatupu, Curry, Hill “middle” can’t get it done…I really have no idea what would.
I can’t help but cringe when I think of the litany of bodies they have tried on the front-4, and wonder how Ruskell ever got his reputation as being a defensive-talent-evaluation-guru-guy. Does it seems as though Ruskell has possibly had the right pieces, in all the right positions, at various times…. but hasn’t been able to find the mix that all worked together at the same time?
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
by iverson2169 on Oct 8, 2009 7:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We wouldn't be the first team that took several tries before getting it right
Ruskell seems determined to build a dominant defense and will keep adding to it until it happens (or he gets fired.)
by Mr Fish on Oct 8, 2009 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can tell you one thing that our situation validates....
Johns premise that investing in LB’s do not make a dominant defense. Whether it’s coincidence or not remains to be seen… but it sure the heck holds up here doesn’t it?
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
by iverson2169 on Oct 8, 2009 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tried and true.
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 8, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially in a 4-3
In a 3-4 I think they can since they are your primary pass rushers.
by Brendan Scolari on Oct 9, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like contract-year Fat Albert
or paid Fat Albert?
""I wanted to be a quarterback, but I got hungry."
-LG Rob Sims
by ninjasocks on Oct 8, 2009 7:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Watched the first half today.
Holy. Shit. He’s officially on my “watch” list for college prospects.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 8, 2009 9:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Along with Sam Bradford, I'm guesssing.
by russak on Oct 8, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would take Jake Locker over...
Sam Bradford in a New York minute.
It would take longer for him to hit his peak. But that peak would be 8 miles high.
by Hawkdawg on Oct 8, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh god.
What’s with this Jake Locker lovefest all of a sudden?
The guy is not ready for the pro’s. He has the ability, but there are still quite a bit of kinks that he needs to work out. I bleed purple and gold as much as I bleed Seahawk colors, and I love Jake Locker, but I wouldn’t take Locker over Bradford.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 8, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Bradford doesn't?
Shotgun heavy no-huddle thing, surrounded by pro-talent most of his collegiate career, was injured as soon as he faced a fierce pass-rush without the nation’s best offensive line, his replacement threw for 6 TDs in the very next game, etc…
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 8, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that I read somewhere that ..
..less than 60% of Bradford’s snaps were shotgun formation. But even if it were higher, so what? He has the ability to take snaps from right under center. His footwork pro ready. His pocket presence and ability, I don’t believe is matched by any other college quarterback.
I hate that people bring up the shotgun formation as if it’s indicative of a quarterback’s talent and/or skills without really taking a deeper look at the player.
The only holdover from last year’s who is playing this eyar O-line is Trent Williams. That doesn’t mean that Bradford can’t play at the pro level.
Making it sound as if getting hurt is a knock against him. Jake Locker’s gotten hurt before, too.
The ability and performance of his replacement is not reflective of Bradford’s ability.
Bradford has worked out more kinks than Jake Locker has.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 8, 2009 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My only real question
Is how well Bradford can make pre-snap reads. Most of the time, the adjustments are relayed to him by the coach.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 8, 2009 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whats the percentage of snaps Peyton takes from shotgun?
Didn’t Brady work almost exclusively out of the shotgun in 07? Seems like a weird thing to worry about with Bradford.
by Nate Dogg on Oct 8, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"His pocket presence and ability, I don’t believe is matched by any other college quarterback."
I wouldn’t be surprised if many other college QBs looked as if they possessed great pocket presence behind Oklahoma’s old line.
Making it sound as if getting hurt is a knock against him. Jake Locker’s gotten hurt before, too.
No, what I mean is that he got hurt one of the rare times he’s been continually harassed by a pass-rush.
The ability and performance of his replacement is not reflective of Bradford’s ability
Perhaps, but it doesn’t look too good for a pro-prospect when your replacement comes in and does a marvelous job as well.
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 9, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Facing a continual pass rush would increase the likelihood of injury for ANY quarterback, so what exactly is your point?
I am not trying to start an argument, I’m really asking. I ask because, to me, getting hurt facing a pass rush does not suggest that Bradford’s ability cannot translate to the pro’s. His injury was virtually identical to the one that Rocky Bernard gave to Alex Smith a few years ago. Bradford’s really lucky that it wasn’t any severe. The only instance that an injury would force me to raise questions is of the severity of the injury, and whether it would affect his play.
Tell me how it does not look good for a pro prospect when their replacement does well? As I already stated, it’s not reflective of Bradford’s ability. Did it ever occur to you that his replacement could also beTHAT good? Consider all the replacements at QB that USC have had throughout the years.
I would actually be surprised if most other quarterbacks actually had Bradford’s pocket presence AND pocket ability. To commit so little mistakes like he has is phenomenal. He knows where to go with the ball. His ability to anticipate his receivers in both zone and man coverage is elite. He makes his O-line and receivers better. Even in the few times when he was getting harrassed by a pass rush, he rarely made costly mistakes.
Now, on for the subject of Landry Jones throwing 6 TD’s the very next game, you neglected to mention that it was against Idaho State, a Big Sky football team. Many quarterbacks playing for an elite FBS team would have a field day against them. I’m sure the scouts kept that in mind, and probably won’t let that knock their opinion of Bradford.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 9, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two examples:
Steve Young replaces Joe Montana, does about as well.
Olandis Gary and some fullback replace Terrell Davis, get over 1000 yards.
If the backup does just as well as the starter, it does indicate that surrounding parts or the system is the reason for success, moreso than the actual player. Sure the guy behind Bradford could be a top 10 pick as well, but the chances are more likely that Oklahoma just has a really good offensive line and skill position players.
by LantermanC on Oct 10, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probability is not necessarily reflective of reality.
I am quite confident in saying that it’s not the “system” if Oklahoma even has one. They ran their offense completely differently when Adrian Peterson was the focal point of their offense.
They recruit elite talent on an annual basis, so a proposal that the surrounding parts is a bigger reason for the team’s success is more likely. However, it does not necessarily mean that the player’s individual success is directly because of that reason. Let’s keep in mind that Oklahoma lost 2 of their best O-lineman in the draft, and the only returning starter on the O-line is Trent Williams, who is not playing on the right side anymore, not to mention that Iglesias also went into the draft last year. They lost a lot of the O-line talent and skill position impact players from last year, and yet, Bradford is still succeeding.
During his remaining years, Steve Young didn’t always play with the same players that Joe Montana did.
I am still not convinced that Landry Jones’s success in the Idaho State game did anything to negatively impact Bradford’s draft stock, or suggest that Bradford’s ability cannot translate to the pro’s.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 10, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that I know Bradford is going to be good
I’m certainly no draft expert, but most of these seem like things people say when they over-analyze a prospect and get nit picky:
Shotgun heavy no-huddle thing
Lots of college QB’s, maybe even most, go out of shotgun most of the time. And as others said lots of pro QB’s do quite a bit as well. Regardless, this isn’t really a knock on him so much as it means it might take some time for him to learn the footwork.
surrounded by pro-talent most of his collegiate career
So is McCoy, or Tebow. Sanchez and Stafford were too. While I think you have to adjust for the level of his teammates, this doesn’t address the skills of Bradford. Being on a team with lots of good players doesn’t mean it’s any more likely that Bradford isn’t good.
was injured as soon as he faced a fierce pass-rush without the nation’s best offensive line
Maybe, but maybe that was just a fluke. This could be a fair gripe, but at this point I don’t think we really know.
his replacement threw for 6 TDs in the very next game,
This could mean he’s a system player, or maybe his backup is really good too.
These could all be legitimate, but to me when people aren’t criticizing the actual skills of the player (doesn’t go through progressions quickly, isn’t very accurate, doesn’t have good arm strength, etc.) and instead can only criticize him by saying his teammates were really good, that’s a sign that the player in question is probably pretty good himself.
by Brendan Scolari on Oct 9, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mean to disregard your post by nitpicking this, but:
Sanchez and Stafford were too.
I’d disagree. Stafford didn’t have much except for Knowshon Moreno and he wasn’t going around being a game-breaker who broke off long runs all the time, and perhaps Mohammed Massaquoi but I still don’t think he was a first-day talent. Sanchez had, uh, Patrick Turner I guess.
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 9, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not great WR's
But they had great talent around them. Georgia was #1 in the preseason rankings and while they proved to not deserve that, they were still a very good team. I’d argue they are similiar to Oklahoma, who are Bradford’s great WR’s?
And Sanchez probably had as much talent around him as nearly anyone in college football. He has a phenomenal USC line and a great group of RB’s. And Patrick Turner, Damian Williams, and Ronald Johnson was a good group of receivers, even if they don’t have huge names. I
by Brendan Scolari on Oct 9, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
USC's line didn't appear to be that great, or at least in my view.
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 9, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stafford played behind a pretty damn good O-line in college, too.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 9, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Georgia line were you watching?
His offensive line wasn’t good his final year because of injuries and their replacements being juco transfers. In any case, they certainly weren’t within sniffing distance of Oklahoma’s dominance.
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 9, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I paid attention to all 3 of Stafford's years.
They didn’t always have injuries like they did last year.
But you cannot deny Stafford didn’t have very good pass protection. It sounds like because you think they weren’t elite, that they didn’t have a good O-line.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 9, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Several draft 'gurus' have put Locker as a top 5 QB prospect.
I don’t know if he’s higher than Bradford, but Bradford has had a great line 2 or 3 good RBs and good WRs. Locker, until this year, has essentially had nothing, and has almost single-handedly beat Ohio State (at least for one half) in his redshirt freshman year. His throwing has looked solid, though I’ll admit sometimes I can’t tell if he’s making some late reads, or if his WRs just aren’t open. Hard to tell when they’re not on the screen. Also, his line sucks, and his center may be the worst snapper I’ve ever seen.
by LantermanC on Oct 8, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget that ridiculously bad left guard who seems to give up a pressure on every snap.
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 9, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Jake Locker hype is a bit ridiculous.
1. Bradford
2. Berry
3. Suh
4. Locker
5. Gerald McCoy
7. Mays
9. Colt McCoy
23. Trent WIlliams
24. Charles Brown
10. Okung (Next Walt?)
11. Clausen (Wouldn’t mind drafting him)
by LantermanC on Oct 8, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn you, Kiper. Stop hyping Locker so much so we could get him later in first round.
by russak on Oct 8, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
McShay had him 7 overall a few weeks ago,
and the number 1 QB overall I believe.
by LantermanC on Oct 8, 2009 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even ahead of Clausen.
I guess they’re seeing alot of the same potential that we do.
by russak on Oct 8, 2009 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually hope he does.
I want Bradford to drop. Tim Ruskell excels at taking home prospects who were surefire elite talent at their positions one year, but saw their stock drop the following year.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 8, 2009 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why does it skip from 9 to 23 and 24?
by Brendan Scolari on Oct 9, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bunch of players Seahawks probably wouldn't be interested in?
LBs, DEs.
I just cherry-picked players I had my eye on.
by LantermanC on Oct 9, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
I got confused because it goes back to 10 and 11 after that.
by Brendan Scolari on Oct 9, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is the earth's atmosphere less than 8 miles high?
And hence ‘out of this world’? Or did you just pick a random length of distance?
by LantermanC on Oct 8, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough to say.
It decreases gradually as altitude increases, although 3/4 of the atmosphere is within 6.8 miles. The Kármán Line, the internationally recognized boundary with outer space, is 62 miles/100 km.
by thebyron on Oct 9, 2009 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For a lot of things like that
You draw the cutoff at about 90% of the integral of the density.
""I wanted to be a quarterback, but I got hungry."
-LG Rob Sims
by ninjasocks on Oct 9, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know where that line would be, but in this case it's based on aeronautics.
More info, for those interested.
by thebyron on Oct 9, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a Byrd's tune
that I like.
Bradford is simply not half the athlete Locker is. He doesn’t have the same arm strength. He runs an offense that simply does not translate to the pros, so his “polish” advantage over Locker for the pros is not as big as it appears.
We’ll see. If Locker contineus to play as he has, and teams have the choice near the top of the draft next year, I bet Locker comes off first. He has Elway-type arm strength and mobility, he’s plenty intelligent and works his ass off with A+ character and family background. He’s not as far along as Bradford in some areas, but like I said, his peak is higher.
He is also the kind of guy,however, who would turn down a top five draft position to return for his senior year, as Bradford did last year.
by Hawkdawg on Oct 9, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Bradford could stay another year if he wanted.
by LantermanC on Oct 9, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just out of curiosity..
How do you know that Locker would stay for another year?
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 9, 2009 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't need to watch Bradford.
I already know all that I need to know about him.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 8, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suh was a beast
Unfortunately, unless we really suck this season, I mean the rest of it, and wind up with a top 3 pick, I doubt he’ll fall to us. Hard to imagine Suh doesn’t go top 3. And with the money of a top 3 pick, combined with what we’re already paying the linebackers, how could we afford him? Kerney or Hill would have to go.
by diehard82 on Oct 8, 2009 10:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Top 3 = Rebuild
I’m sure Kerney will be one of the first to go. He’s aging, expensive, and not looking too good right now.
by aerozeppelin on Oct 8, 2009 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So would Walt, I imagine.
Although I’m not too sure how I’d feel about a DT in the top 3, especially considering the QB talent that could be up there and Hasselbeck’s injuries and age being a dire issue.
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 8, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can buy a quality QB but a quality DT? Almost never.
Elite DTs go almost exclusively in the top of the draft. Top QBs mostly go at the top of the draft but the drop-off in quality to the next tier (which you can get in later rounds) is not so severe as with DTs.
Almost nobody falls out of love with elite DTs and gets rid of them, certainly not when they’re in their primes. But good-to-elite QBs hit the market with reasonable frequency. Brett Favre was traded, Mark Brunnell was traded, Hass was traded, Matt Schaub was traded, and more recently Jay Cutler was traded. All before or during their primes. And that’s not even getting into the FA market. Hell, if I thought this team could contend for something beyond a first-round loss I’d stump for signing Jeff Garcia off the street right now. You don’t see that kind of movement among good-to-elite DTs. Albert Haynesworth’s deal was notable not just because of its size but because top DTs almost never get to the market.
If two elite prospects—a QB and a DT—are close in talent I’d almost always pick the DT. Your success in projecting college DTs to the NFL is probably much higher, and thus you’re more likely to get immediate production. The QB, if you guess right with the projections, should have a longer stay at or near his peak.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Oct 9, 2009 5:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to nitpick, but Favre was certainly past his prime.
by thebyron on Oct 9, 2009 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He got traded from Atlanta to Green Bay
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Oct 9, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting discussion. DTs, QBs, and LTs are probably the hardest to find when it comes to elite.
LBs and RBs (due to over the hill, or two RBs one system situations?) are probably the easiest?
by LantermanC on Oct 9, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is, you can win with an elite D and a less-than-elite QB
… anyway, that seems to be the formula Ruskell is following. If so, he should probably stick with the plan rather than changing course midstream.
by Mr Fish on Oct 9, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Top QBs mostly go at the top of the draft but the drop-off in quality to the next tier (which you can get in later rounds) is not so severe as with DTs."
What? I’d disagree with this statement, especially looking at the last several drafts.
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 9, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen many QBs traded in their prime
And Denver was skewered for doing it and I still believe they will suffer badly for the trade fast start this year or not. Mangini looked great his first year with the Jets and he’s coaching the Browns now.
Kris Jenkins, Albert Haynesworth, Shaun Rogers, and Marcus Stroud are all playing for different teams than they started with.
To say that QBs shift teams more than DTs is not true as near as I can tell.
by ASeahawkfan on Oct 9, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
DT’s seem to shift more to me, certainly more than elite QB’s.
by Brendan Scolari on Oct 9, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed.
And I don’t really see how 2 potentially dominant DTs are going to get us into the ranks of the elite. Jacksonville never really got anywhere with John Henderson and Marcus Stroud when they were both kicking ass. I don’t even think they ever even had an elite defense when either (and Rashean Mathis for good measure) were at the height of their powers..
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 9, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it depends on the situation.
Each team had different pieces to the puzzle that they needed to solve. Some succeeded, others didn’t.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 9, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suh, Berry, Locker are my three favorite prospects.
But is anyone else warming up to Taylor Mays? I know he’s not top 5 pick, but I’d take him at around 11 if Berry was already gone (assuming no other good safeties were available in the next 50 picks).
by LantermanC on Oct 8, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we can hold off on S if we cant get Berry with the early pick we should go after Morgan Burnett in the second round.
Get our future QB with the early round pick. Clausen, Bradford, Locker would love to get any one of these guys.
by russak on Oct 8, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suh and McCoy are generally in the top 8 in projections.
Reminds me a bit of Dorsey and Sedrick Ellis. Did either of those guys pan out, or is it too early to tell?
by LantermanC on Oct 8, 2009 10:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dorsey looks like a bum. There still might be some hope for Ellis though.
Neither look like they could be all-pros one day but either could still be solid players.
by David89 on Oct 8, 2009 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ellis looked good his rookie season before injury.
Apparently, Dorsey is overmatched in the system or something.
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 9, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah he hasn't done much
I thought he’d be really good…
by Brendan Scolari on Oct 9, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish we'd trade for him and stick him beside Mebane.
He’s useless in their 3-4. Too small for their DL, but would be disruptive next to Mebane.
by redwolf75 on Oct 9, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who would you guys rather have (assuming it the opportunity)?
Bradford in 2010.
or
Locker in 2011.
Strangely enough, I don’t want to see Locker as a Seahawk. It can be a rough business asking a local kid to be a franchise QB for his hometown team. You would think the fans would cut him some extra slack but it is often the opposite. Just ask Jake Plummer, Brady Quinn or Charlie Frye. I hope that Locker is drafted by a non-NFC West team, hopefully one with a good OL and good defense. In the 90’s the Jags were kind of my 2nd team because Brunell was there, and before that it was the Oilers with Moon.
Not only that, but I don’t think I can stand to wait til 2011 for a QB. And Bradford, should we be lucky enough to have a shot at him, is hyper-accurate. Accuracy is a minor issue for Locker, and in a WCO, accuracy is very important.
The argument for Locker, besides being Kingshit and all… is that he possesses a really rare combination of skills and in some ways is the perfect QB for the Seahawks situation. Without significantly improving the OL, the Seahawks will need their next franchise QB to be a guy in the Big Ben mold: a big, tough, yet elusive passer who can take hits and make tough throws. Basically a guy who can still manage even with a crappy OL. Locker has been fairly good this year despite an OL that has been dominated most games, even against Idaho. The WCO tends to love mobile QB’s, another area where Locker excels. What’s most encouraging is that Locker is learning this year to use his legs at appropriate times in the game and not whenever he feels like it. The Vince Youngs, the Michael Vicks, were not taught this restraint in college and it haunted them in the pros. In the right system, strategically using his fast legs could serve Locker well in the NFL. Steve Young was devastating with his arm but drove a stake through your heart with his numerous 3rd down converting scrambles.
I think of Locker as being a bigger, better, less mistake prone Jake Plummer, or perhaps a poor man’s John Elway. He’s mobile, he’s gutty, he has a good arm, but he’s still unpolished. Normally I roll my eyes when I hear cliches like this, but in Locker’s case its true: he’s one of the rare college QB’s that truly takes the game into his hands. Anyone who has watched the Huskies the last 3 years knows that Locker carries that team on his back. He’s not just an impressive piece of horseflesh that Scouts tend to over-rate; he’s got great intangibles, humility, and leadership. On that note, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more talented QB (especially on a team as bad as UW) with less of an ego.
I sound like Locker’s mother saying so many nice things about him, but at the end of the day, I don’t think he is quite accurate enough to be a true NFL franchise QB. Not yet anyway. He should most definitely stay 1 more year with Sarkisian and see how far his development goes. Without developing further, I think he’d be an “ok” NFL QB, but he does have monster potential, certainly.
by kearly on Oct 9, 2009 1:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm all about "best talent available"
With the money you spend in the first round you almost have to draft that way and reorient the rest of the roster.
Locker is quite talented, and has enough starts under his belt that you have an idea of how he might project. This year is important for him though. I don’t know what his efficiency looks like—I think it’s in the low 100s—but I don’t think it’s very good. He hasn’t played with much talent or very QB friendly offenses. This year will be big for him because he’s in a more QB friendly system than in the past, and at least on paper he has more talent.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Oct 9, 2009 5:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is Bradford so high on everyone's list?
My layman eyes show me a more rounded, stronger QB in McCoy.
Or is it that we just won’t have a high-enough pick for him?
by Anticitizen_One on Oct 9, 2009 2:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not much of a Bradford fan, but I don't see why anyone would think Colt McCoy is better.
"I wish the Seahawks were back in the AFCW so we didn’t have to face Willis and Gore twice a year."
by Fearless Frog on Oct 9, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
70% completion percentage, led the team in rushing.
Worse (though this year is debatable) supporting cast.
by LantermanC on Oct 9, 2009 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suh was an absolute beast
Keep in mind that Missouri’s offensive line is largely the same unit as last year that jumped on this same Nebraska d-line and rendered it irrelevant.
Blaine Gabbert is going to be a very good QB. He had his “Sanchez in New Orleans” moment last night though. He saw pressure when there wasn’t any. He locked on to receivers and telegraphed his passes. Almost all of that was about Suh. And, that was the case even without the pick that basically won the game.
I HATE to give it up to a Husker, but damn. He’s a baaaadddd man. He’s going in the top five as long as he stays healthy. Playmaking tackles with the size to reorient the pocket just don’t come along very often.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Oct 9, 2009 5:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
few off topic things, some on topic
The talk about cap concerns and signing Suh is a non issue. If Ruskell and Co. are really high on a defense changing DT(which could be Suh or somebody else) they could make room. Cutting Jones and Kerney would free up around 18 million I believe? That’s a huge chunk towards a signing bonus. There’s always restructuring to. It’s looking less and less like Denver will be giving us a pick in the top 10 and I’m sure we will pull a Seahawks circa 2003 and find a way to pull eek out 6-8 wins towards the end of the year and draft right in the middle.
Is Berry projected to be like an Ed Reed type safety?
All this Locker talk is weird. People seem to be completely sold on his passing skills after 4 games this year.
by Hancock.Brett on Oct 9, 2009 9:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
works for me
Make it happen Timmy!
by Hancock.Brett on Oct 9, 2009 10:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wishful thinking
I hope Hass can stay healthy and play well for 2-3 more years so we don’t need to draft a franchise QB just yet. Wishful thinking though. Same wishful thinking has resulted in paying Walt big bucks to sit on the sideline. At some point we have to do as Green Bay and St. Louis and go with the future guy, even if the vet “might” be able to play, and indeed goes off and plays elsewhere. Every team rebuilds to a certain extent every year through the draft. We’re not going to solve all our issues in one draft though. And to dcrockett17’s point we have to draft best player available, particularly in round 1. Not doing so dooms you to mediocrity for years to come. If Suh falls to us, I think we must take him and find a way to make it work. Even if it means dismantling the team this year, I’d be in favor of trading some very expensive guys to teams with playoff aspirations in return for draft picks. If we’re going to rebuild, let’s do it right. Branch, Kerney, Hill, Wallace, Spencer, Redding, Sims and Cole should all be considered prior to the end of this season, when injuries on other teams with playoff’s looming might incent them to trade away a draft pick for that one key guy who can give them a chance to win this year. Spencer, Sims and Redding are approaching FA anyway. Cole could be replaced through a deep draft with respect to D-line talent, and short-term by Bryant. We’re deep at DE and I doubt Kerney would be missed to the extent that it costs us a W. I wouldn’t trade Hass until we have the future QB in hand, and there’s been no indication that Teel’s that guy. Giving Teel some playing time might help flesh that out. Hill is a great talent, but can we afford three very expensive LB’s while trying to rebuild the rest of the team? I’d choose to keep Lofa as the QB of the D, and Curry who has much more upside.
Regarding Mays, if he fell to our second 1st round pick, I’d be in favor of taking him. No earlier than pick 10. You can’t teach the physical skills he has, but good coaching can teach recognition and reaction, the two biggest knocks I hear about his game. At the same time, I think we can find very good safety talent in rounds 2-3.
Regarding Locker, I think he’ll stay another year at UW, and I think he’ll go on to a solid NFL career. Odds are, not with the Hawks. The one thing about his game that continues to bother me is despite his good (not great) size, his release point doesn’t seem high and I see a lot of passes getting batted down at the line.
If we are lucky enough to have Suh fall to us early in the 1st, I’d be in favor of using the second pick on OT, even if it’s a guy who will backup Locklear and Willis his rookie year, then OG (Mike Johnson-Alabama) in the 2nd. I know, so many other needs to fill, but we can’t do it all in one draft and I believe in starting with the lines. Like we did with Peterson when it became clear Curry might be arriving, we might have to trade Cole, Bryant or Mebane to make room for Suh. If we can get additional 2nd and/or 3rd round picks, then address Safety. I think safety is higher priority than CB because with Wilson and Tru healthy, we’re pretty good. Among the projected starters, I think FS is the greatest need. With Jones impressing me thus far this year, and Forsett pitching in, a RB in the 3rd or 4th round would be preferable to using a 1st round pick and fishing for O-line in the 3rd or 4th. Enough already.
by diehard82 on Oct 9, 2009 11:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
6" 3", 225?
I’d say that at LEAST “good” size. HIs QB skills have advanced at a fightening rate since Sarkisian got ahold of him. And you can’t teach that body or that competitiveness. Let’s see whether that continues.
I remain convinced that if he had had anything LIKE the athletes around him that Bradford as had, let alone a decent coach before this year, he’d be all-World by now.
by Hawkdawg on Oct 9, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suh looked great
Unfortunately though I think you guys would have to be really bad this year to get him (I see him being a top 5 pick or so) and I’m pretty sure you don’t want that.
I checked out that Seattle Draft Blog recently, Rob Staton seemed pretty down on Berry. He said he wasn’t a top 5 pick and didn’t look as quick as expected IIRC, I’d be curious to get anyone’s thoughts on that.
And you don’t get ESPN John? That must be rough. I mean they’re annoying but still, they have like a monopoly on sports….
by Brendan Scolari on Oct 9, 2009 1:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And Staton seemd to be pretty high on Berry going into the season
""I wanted to be a quarterback, but I got hungry."
-LG Rob Sims
by ninjasocks on Oct 9, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take a dominant DT if Suh was that guy
but I think all we’re really missing on defense is a dominant DE and a great safety. Our ends are not getting much pressure and certainly aren’t guys that require constant double teams. And we don’t have a safety that can shut down enough plays that make it past the line and I think every defense needs that.
by ASeahawkfan on Oct 9, 2009 2:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Suh could be available
I remember reading Duke Robinson would never fall out of the first round this time last year. Let’s not crap on our hopes with negative speculation.
by John Morgan on Oct 9, 2009 2:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Mock drafts don't seem to hold up all that well over the course of a season
Last year, Oher and Monroe seemed to be consensus top-5 picks while no one had heard of Jason Smith. No one expected Curry to go at 4 or Jackson at 3, going into the combine.
""I wanted to be a quarterback, but I got hungry."
-LG Rob Sims
by ninjasocks on Oct 9, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's very true
Here’s Todd McShay’s first mock draft for 2009. This is his top 10:
Fili Moala, Michael Johnson, Matt Stafford, Al Woods, Sen’Derrick Marks, Andre Smith, Tim Tebow, Michael Oher, Rey Mauluga, and Knowshon Moreno.
Only two of his projected top 10 guys actually went in the top 10, and some of the names there (Fili Moala #1 overall!!) look pretty remarkable in hindsight.
by Brendan Scolari on Oct 9, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the same thing. :-)
He’s a senior DT for LSU. I guess McShay thought he would declare early but obviously that didn’t happen. I haven’t heard much about him so I’m guessing he’s not considered an elite talent anymore either.
by Brendan Scolari on Oct 9, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you keeping your eye on DEs as well?
I know everyone is watching Berry and Mays as far as Safeties go. But who are the top DEs out there?
by ASeahawkfan on Oct 9, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not even watching DE's this year.
I’m pretty happy with the current group.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 9, 2009 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Kerney is done
We don’t have a single double digit sack DE on this roster and you’re happy? That seems odd.
Kerney is 33 next year right? We need pressure from the edge rush. No way we get pressure up the middle if someone doesn’t dominate the edge. Kerney is not the long-term answer. Lo-Jack is better, but still not a dominant edge rusher. Tapp is solid, but not a dominant edge rusher. Who do we have to dominate the edge and force the double team?
I’m more comfortable with our DTs. If we had a dominating edge rush, I think our DTs would look even better. That’s my feeling at least. If we were using a zone blitz system, I’d be alot more comfortable with the talent. But as I’ve stated over and over again, can’t run a Tampa 2 with front four pressure without a dominant pass rusher or two on the line, preferably one DT and one DE. I feel Mebane can be that DT, but at the moment he is getting most of the extra attention to slow him down.
by ASeahawkfan on Oct 10, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
because of the lack of a dominant edge rusher.
Forgot to add that part.
by ASeahawkfan on Oct 10, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also remembered reading that Michael Oher was a lock for the top 5.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 9, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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