Seahawks Humiliated on the Road; Deliver Signature Loss of the 2009 Season
If ever a time for finger pointing and easy answers existed, it is now. I could attack the character, play and talent of about any Seahawk and score. We don't know exactly how Seattle failed, but we all certainly saw someone in blue fail and that, that guy, is the problem. Panic loves a demagogue and I've the rich pipes to shout orders at the assembling mob. To Renton!
The coaches! We can be sure they're dumb.
The line! Sucked like an Oreck.
Matt Hasselbeck! Boy that guy's done!
The Seattle Seahawks were 4-12 last season. They are now 5-8. They should win against Tampa, and since we're talking "shoulds", they should finish the season 6-10. That is a reasonable step forward for the 2008 Seattle Seahawks. The 2008 Seattle Seahawks were one of the five worst teams in football. The 2009 Seattle Seahawks are one of the ten worst teams in football. And when a bad team, with a suspect line, conservative playbook and aged quarterback gets behind early on the road, it has no answer. It is not one player's fault, but a complete team failure.
That Julius Jones! What a jobber.
And Housh! An overpaid primadonna!
I hope that is sufficient aperitif for everyone's hunger for blame.
Here are some sure to be unpopular observations.
Josh Wilson ran down the field and tipped away a deep pass. That was an exciting display of man cover for the kid and a small, small-small step towards realizing his potential. Wilson might settle at nickel and he is already a fine situational defensive back, but there's room for Pistol to develop into a Antoine Winfield type corner.
Deon Butler can own the short pattern. He's smooth into and out of his cuts and the rare receiver capable of quick acceleration and long-stride speed. Butler must be embraced as a receiver rather than a forty time. From the time he was drafted, Seattle has mismanaged his talent: Wasting time and development, not to mention risking injury, auditioning him as a returner; Sending him streaking up the sideline without a quarterback that could target him; seeing him as a deep receiver because of one attribute and missing his true profile as an underneath burner.
The defense kept its pride even after being handed its ass. Seattle forced two big turnovers that quickly dissolved into nothing, but were clean, meaningful turnovers. Seahawks fans are done thinking this is an elite unit, and with ample reason, but it is young, it is mostly cheap and it is worth picking apart and finding value within. Whether Seattle needs a complete rebuild or not is mootable. I see young talent growing within an otherwise crumbling team.
The team is crumbling. Today a pillar broke off and landed on the Seahawks coaching staff. I like Gus Bradley, Greg Knapp and Dan Quinn. I think all three have a future in this league, but probably not together. I can't see Jim Mora escaping such an embarrassing loss. It was always unlikely Mora would stay. New general managers want their guy. I will not look back at Mora and feel contempt, but he has not earned much respect in his short time here. Fiery is fine. I see desperation. The look of a man that thinks he can yell his way out of failure.
This loss hurt through the first half and settled in the second. Now I don't feel it all. A better team, at home, that matches strength against many of Seattle's weaknesses, playing from well ahead from the first quarter on...
And it won't matter a damn in a month. The Seahawks live beyond the players, coaches and fans. Suck as today sucks, and this sucks, Seattle will rise again. And someday, that good coverage down field by Wilson, the rollicking tiny power presence of Justin Forsett, that force of nature hitting by Aaron Curry, will matter again. Just not today. Or soon. Or even next year, probably.
Game ball: Brandon Mebane was stuck behind Chuck Darby not too long ago. Back then, I was sure to point out Darby's missteps and Mebane's potential. He finally got his shot when Darby was lost to injury and has been nothing but special ever since. He is, accounting for position, Seattle's best pass rusher. He is clearly Seattle's best run stuffer.
Mebane is the rare defensive lineman that bunches double teams and brutalizes them if the quarterback double-clutches. He sticks-out when he's in and even more when he's out. A dozen players on the current roster would be lucky to make the next winning team, but make one Brandon Mebane. Kid was playing for a good team, he would be bashing backs and sacking quarterbacks towards his second Pro Bowl.
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Probably to early to ask, but are there any potential head coaches that you like?
Obviously it depends on the GM, but is there anyone you have your eye on?
SEA!
Not my question but I have been mulling this over and tweo names come to mind
Cowher or Dungy.
by mrcoffee1969 on Dec 14, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
Well, yeah.
Anyone besides the obvious? (Also please not that useless Gruden)
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 14, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
I think Deon Butler is also deserving for game ball.
Maybe I’ll just give him game ball on offense
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
Butler really impressed me too
I want to gush about him, but its still so early. Courtney Taylor had a similar limited but impressive debut in 2007, and we saw how that turned out. : (
I found few positives in this game
Mainly the defense not giving up during the 3rd quarter. The offense didn’t do anything. Hasselbeck gave them 7 points.
Maybe this is just Seahawk Addicts but I’m sick of the line getting full blame for Hass’ shortcomings. When someone is done they are done. Hasselbeck has served us well but he’s a shell of his former self. The stats look pretty but when you peel the onion back he was a bunch of suck.
We’re looking at a massive rebuild on offense.
ME! BANE!
#31 just made a great break on the ball.
I don’t think it was really so much Matt’s fault as it was #31 making a great read and breaking on the ball. That’s certainly what it looked like when I saw the replay
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
It was a five yard pass that hung and hung and hung
Hasselbeck is 34, once had a league average at best arm, and is nursing a sore throwing shoulder. There’s not too many throws he can make right now, but Seattle has no one else to start.
You still can't discredit #31 for the read and making the break on the ball. He was about 8 yards away when he made his initial burst for the ball
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
8 yards away from the receiver*
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
The Houston D had clearly been coached to ignore anything deeper than 10 yards
The Cushing play they highlighted, where he just let Carlson run past him and sat on the short route, was evidence enough of that.
That was Bernard Pollard. Possibly the best steal we have gotten in terms of a guy on the street that noone was taking after KC cut him.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Dec 13, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
I lobbied for Seattle to take a look at him when cut by KC.
But noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. He may be better than Grant for heaven’s sakes.
This.
is there anything close to concensus on whether or not spencer is telegraphing the snap?
it’d certainly explain why we seem to have a lot of plays where someone blitzes in so fast nobody can even get to them
Yeah, I don't know
it’s a theory that has run through my mind, not Spencer, but the general inability of Seattle to disrupt the defense’s timing. I think Seattle is getting a lot of instant pressure because it is behind and has no deep pass. Teams are stacking the box and why not?
I agree with you
but at the same time, for whatever combination of reasons, Hass was taking some vicious hits today. I think on two occasions, he was nailed only 2 seconds off the snap. I really hope that is addressed by the time Seattle starts its next franchise QB.
Hass Shortcomings
Maybe this is just Seahawk Addicts but I’m sick of the line getting full blame for Hass’ shortcomings. When someone is done they are done. Hasselbeck has served us well but he’s a shell of his former self. The stats look pretty but when you peel the onion back he was a bunch of suck.
It’s Offical! I am putting in my endorsement for J. Campbell
not just Seahawk Addicts
almost all reactionary fans first answer to the “problem” is to build a dominate offensive line. You can’t even present the argument that 2/5 of the 2005 offensive line were older free agents when they were signed. I like the stat somewhre in this thread of the same offensive line now producing one of Hass’ best years.
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 13, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
The line was blamed for Alexander's decline and now it's being blamed for Hasselbeck's decline.
This line isn’t good, but Matt’s inability to throw a five pass without hanging the ball is magnifying their problems.
Truth is, Hasselbeck was never an elite QB
He was a good QB who had a couple of good seasons in a system that played to his strengths.
Problem is, Holmgren’s WCO put too exacting demands on the rest of the team, and the high level of play couldn’t be sustained.
didn't catch the game
but I dislike hearing that Curry’s cultivating a dirty reputation. booo.
This quickly? They're probably still doing tests on him.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
Danny O'Neill's twitter:
“Seahawks LB Aaron Curry suffered a right hip pointer. X-rays found no fracture.”
Well that was fast
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
Well to be fair, that late hit WAS unnecessary
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
oh I'm not disputing the messengers of said news
disliking the actions
That makes two of us.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
FO's keep chopping wood award seems contrived as hell, but
Aaron Curry tweeting last night about the spartans of thermopylae then getting carried out on a stretcher today seems like some kind of manifestation of fate
I hope Bradley recognizes
The blitz works with Babs and that Freeman is ripe for 7 INTs nex week.
ME! BANE!
John
Realistically speaking, we going to see Hass next year? He was just utterly awful.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
Hopefully his retirement press conference.
Otherwise we see him tutor Brady Quinn in Cleveland.
ME! BANE!
Could we even move him?
Would there be any takers for an injury-prone 35 year old with no arm strength to speak of?
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
Yeah, something probably
He is a quarterback and he has proven capable at points in his career. Like a lot of Seahawks fans, someone out there thinks this isn’t his fault and that he could be respectable for a year or two.
I'll take it.
Otherwise we’ll watch him struggle behind a barely average line with no offensive playmakers. That sounds like a fun year for Hawks fans.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
Aside from the overall sentiment,
this,
I see desperation. The look of a man that thinks he can yell his way out of failure.
is exactly what I feel about Mora as well, and there is no future in that.
I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.
4th quarter against the Vikings
He was walking along the player benches trying to rally the troops. Maybe the guys were just gassed, but most either ignored him or glared back. He didn’t look like a man with much respect.
Caption
The Bush in the photo is George Herbert Walker Bush. George Walker (“W”) Bush is the more recent president.
by jeager on Dec 13, 2009 2:35 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Innocent question
Just wondering what the appeal with Mora was from the beginning. I mean, I understand he was brought in a year early and coach-in-waiting and whatever…..but I’ve just never been able to wrap my head around what he brings to the table. From a distance, it seems like all that fiery disposition crap would kind of wear on the players a little—was that not his undoing in Atlanta (along with Vick)?
Agree on the Butler point, as well.
So what’s the offseason gonna look like? Clean house with Kerney, Hass, Jones, Branch others (Housh)?
I think the appeal was that his staff looked sound
and Mora an acceptable public face. And I am sure Seattle is clearing out of plenty of contracts this offseason. I do not think it will cut Housh, but Housh might want out.
why so much disdain .....
For Housh? It’s not his fault? Hell, do you want to see Forsett or Butler cut because they can’t get the ball or more carries?
I have no disdain for Housh
but he’s an older player that thought he signed with a contender. I think he will want out.
How would we get rid of him?
Wouldn’t that mean humongous dead money on the cap?
Can he restructure his contract and then be traded?
With an elite QB how many points do the hawks score today?
14 or 17? Hass isn’t what he used to be but the offensive line can’t get enough blame in my mind.
Hawks have one of the 10 worst o lines in football and one of the 10 worst pass rushes.
I’m not really sure what people want, it’s frustrating, but this is a team that has the talent of a 5-7 win team.
by Badmotostinkfinger on Dec 13, 2009 2:38 PM PST reply actions
If we magically traded Hasselbeck for Manning
I think Seattle would have won, perhaps with ease. I am not saying Seattle has a great line, it doesn’t, and bottom ten is probably accurate, but Hasselbeck puts a huge burden on this offense.
I doubt we win with Eli.
Oh wait you mean Peyton?
Yeah after all of these years his QB brain is incredibly strong and opposing defenses are routinely his bitch. He makes no-name receivers like Austin Collie look like stars.
Imagine what he could do with Housh, Burly, Butler, and Carlson?
ME! BANE!
It's not black and white, of course
but Manning is white, so to speak. Most teams could expect a sea change by going from their quarterback to Peyton Manning. Hasselbeck isn’t the worst quarterback in football, but he’s a lesser starter, and injured as he is, he is among the worst starting quarterbacks in football.
Hmm...
I agree that Hasselbeck puts a burden on the offense, but today, I don’t think that even Manning could have pulled out a victory for the Seahawks. Matt was hit on almost half of his passes, most of them within 3 to 4 seconds. On one play, he was hit as he was completing a 1-step drop just as he was getting rid of the ball. Even Manning has been made to look mortal when he can’t get pass protection, either. Combine that with 3 failed exchanges between the center and the QB, and the amount of penalties, it would likely have been a very ugly game for Manning.
Couple that with the way that Houston’s offense was playing against Seattle’s defense. I think Manning would have had a very frustrating day. Likely a loss to me even with Manning on the roster.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
Manning does a better job of getting rid of the ball.
Or noticing when the blitz is coming so he audibles.
ME! BANE!
He also keeps teams from blitzing, something Hasselbeck does not
Want to stop the blitz? Burn the blitz. Hasselbeck can’t.
This game did not come down to not stopping the blitz.
I disagree that Manning keeps teams from blitzing. I’ve seen numerous times throughout his career that teams have not only blitzed against him, but successfully so.
I do agree that Manning discourages it based on his ability and intelligence alone, and that Manning does a better job of , not just recognizing the blitz but also in getting rid of the ball, but if he’s getting hit and put on his back on half of his passes, something is wrong, and it’s not necessarily the quarterback that’s shouldering the majority of the blame. Especially considering that this was against a team that before today, had very little success generating a consistent pass rush throughout the year. (Their adjusted sack rate was 5.4%, 28th in the league.)
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
What I mean in my subject line is that this game did not come down to having a QB that can't burn the blitz.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
For instance, by completing passes and avoiding long down and distance.
Beating the blitz and discouraging teams from using it. Making quicker reads and throwing down field. Moving in the pocket instead of running into pressure.
I'm not crazy in thinking that Matt has been holding on to the ball way too long lately, am I?
I just don’t remember him ever double clutching and loafing around in the pocket as much as he seems to be doing this season.
You're not
But I think it is worth noting that a factor that adds to a perception such as that is that the rush is getting to Hasselbeck sooner than usual.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
His arm is failing him
he needs receivers to be more open than ever. Holmgren’s timing system hid that somewhat, and Knapp isn’t as tight. Hasselbeck could throw to a spot and that helped a ton because he wasn’t finding a man and threading the needle. He was throwing to a spot that the receiver new and could run to.
A lot of that is theoretical as much as it is practical. It works a lot, but a lot of times, that's also not the case.
I have seen with my own eyes that the very same quarterback that we’re discussing, Manning, get hit on half of his passes. And struggle.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think the disagreement is
could Manning struggle, it’s, would Manning struggle if he was in Hasselbeck’s place. I don’t think he would.
I think he would.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
Other than the fact that Manning's been hit on half of his passes in some of his games?
I’ve seen it.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
I'd like to say that I'm not trying to be a Hasselbeck-defender. I think he is part of the problem
But Manning is also my favorite player. Even I think he would have struggled today were he in Hasselbeck’s place.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
It's a defensible opinion
I am spent pointing fingers. Seattle has a lot of problems, and on any given play, one weakness is exposing another.
And we can't resolve that
because like you said, it’s hypothetical. But I don’t think Manning plays with a better line or with better skill position players.
No we can't, but I happen to think that Manning does indeed play with a better line.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
Is it a law
If you are a fan of Hasselbeck you must defend him no matter what ?
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 13, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Manning is my favorite football player.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
Eli ?
j/k
Peyton would not be under this much duress IMO.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 13, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
Who on the Hawks are better then Clark and Wayne.
And I know i asked the hypothetical, but we’re really comparing Matt to arguably the Greatest QB of his generation? Rogers, Rivers, McNabb and Eli don;t win that game.
by Badmotostinkfinger on Dec 13, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
No one is better than Wayne
but Housh is better than Clark. And Seattle’s overall skill position players are comparable.
I would take Seattle's running backs
and Carlson is still what he was last season, if not better. There’s talent on this roster, but there’s talent on every roster.
I'm not certain of anything
But was comparing like WR 2 WR and TE 2 TE, but I’d still take Clark over Housh.
by Badmotostinkfinger on Dec 13, 2009 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
A Pro Bowl #1 WR and a Pro Bowl TE, big upgrade
by Badmotostinkfinger on Dec 13, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
I really hope you are kidding me John
they are Pro Bowlers with Indy’s Line and Matt hasselbeck as Qb
Seattle was well behind with no deep threat
Houston pinned their ears back and attacked. It’s not like Hasselbeck was going to beat them over top.
Of course not
But if you’re able to get to a quarterback on half of his passes, do you stop?
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
Of course not
but the point I think John is trying to make is that if someone else were behind center, they wouldn’t be getting to the QB on half of their passes.
The only Qb i can see "Controlling" their own pressure
would be Vick. How do you control the pressure when you have a man in your face with one step? How does a player with legs of a 35 year old avoid young players with Mario Williams type speed?
By throwing quickly
3 seconds is all a QB should really need in the pocket. If he wants to get rid of it quickly, he can do it in 1 second. If a QB knows the blitz is coming, he should get rid of it quickly. If a QB can throw deep (before the WR is open, when he’s on a go route) he can absolutely burn a defense that is blitzing because there will only be the one DB covering him. This forces the defense to be careful when they blitz, or not blitz at all. Matt can’t do that anymore.
Bad analogy
John, if you want to use the vacuum analogy, at least use a vacuum worthy of the verb “suck”. How about “they suck like a Bosch shop vac”? Or, “they suck like a Tri-Star”?
Always start and end your day with a smile, and just for today, do something for someone else and don't tell anyone about it.
You'll have to ask my wife about vacuum quality
I use it sometimes and fix it when it doesn’t work, but I only know the name Oreck from the commercials.
dyson is by far the best vacuum ever, according to my wife
who actually loves vacuuming for some reason. lucky me.
Our Oreck is a beast.
We’ve never had a problem with it, and if it ever does get clogged, it’s easy to taker apart and clean.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 14, 2009 4:03 AM PST up reply actions
well, I'm glad at least that rock bottom isn't worst in the NFL
yes, faint praise, but there are worse things than a 4-12 or 5-11 season being the catalyst for a rebuild.
4-12 AND 5-11
next year probably won’t be that much better win wise, but it’ll be heading uphill
Is it me or is Hasselbeck not throwing the ball away anymore?
He either takes the sack or checks down.
ME! BANE!
Not you that is the truth.
I don’t want him to get hurt but I am always happy when he goes to the sidelines now rather see Seneca even though he’s sucked a lot this season.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 13, 2009 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
It's sad because beating blitzes used to be something he was really good at.
Does learning a new playbook near the end of your career have anything to do with that?
I think he knows the playbook
but I think the looser playbook exposes his arm strength. It is worth noting that Knapp has never worked with a quarterback like Hasselbeck. We used to talk about that like it was a good thing.
Knapp offenses have always had a QB with some mobility
Even without the arm strength (Garcia) or the QB ability (Vick).
I won’t count Oakland because it’s Oakland.
Point remains it has been there.
ME! BANE!
I really dont understand how it's his own doing?
When people say that about Rogers or Rothlisberger i get it, but Matt doesn’t hold the ball like they do, but they all have 3 things in common, bad o lines.
by Badmotostinkfinger on Dec 13, 2009 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
Not audibling when it's an obvious blitz
Or throwing the ball away instead of forcing something that isn’t there (which often leads to a 2 yard loss on a dump off).
That is something the QB can control.
ME! BANE!
That's been surprising.
I don’t remember him being this unaware of the blitz; maybe memory is playing tricks on me but didn’t he audible his way out of those a lot more in past years?
It seems to me that everyone is debating Hass vs. O-line,
Both of them can be bad, it doesn’t have to be and isn’t an either-or
I'd lean Hass in the QB v. OL debate
Compare the stats from this year to Matt’s most productive year: 2007-
2009 adjusted sack rate: 6.9%
2007 adjusted sack rate: 7.1%
Run blocking was almost identical as well.
The OL is almost a carbon copy of 2007’s statistically, and Hasselbeck put up huge numbers back then, with arguably inferior WR and RB talent. Clearly, Hasselbeck’s 2009 decline should not be put on the OL, but on his own shoulders.
I think it's both
But an elite QB would be much better than this, some people still believe Matt is elite he’s no where close.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 13, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
It's self serving for some to defend Matt
some are in denial, some are rationalizing and I think most would rather blame faceless bunch of kids than the best quarterback in franchise history.
It's like when Alexsander was at the end.
People just couldn’t see it.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 13, 2009 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
Both are at fault. But where’s the running game and who’s your #1 WR? The Lions are better at WR and RB, and hell, QB for that matter.
by Badmotostinkfinger on Dec 13, 2009 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
The Seahawks are better than the Seahawks? ;-)
Amazing how so many of those ex-Seahawks hopped to the Lions.
ME! BANE!
I hope they sack the coaching staff and play out the string like a team that is rebuilding
start Teel just to see.
He has that damning fault a lot of big armed passers do
No telling where the next throw will be. He looks awesome for a pass and then hopeless for a pass. That kind of crap doesn’t play in the NFL.
I'd rather Seattle invest massive resources into the position
and roll the dice. Or, if a rookie salary cap is imminent, I would rather Seattle trade one its picks for a 2011 pick and select two quarterbacks.
Whoever
I would rather Seattle just pick up a few random players and run them through, but Hasselbeck could finish his contract if the team wanted.
I'd pay money out of my pocket
Not to see Hass take the snaps.
That said I could probably only pony up about $100 for that cause so it won’t change anything.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 13, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
If the rookie salary structure was dramatically changed
I would have no problem with a rebuilding team drafting two quarterbacks and letting them compete for a spot.
Good point.
I think the only way we see Teel or Obo and Butler getting a lot of reps is if Mora and his staff are let go. Same for the defense with Bryant and Curry not playing on 3rd downs.
SEA!
You can blame some of this on Matt
He’s getting old, his arm is toast, and he’s about as fast as my arthritic gramma. But even Peyton needs a couple of seconds to set up and get rid of the ball.
I agree with you, but most fans won’t see it. I think it’s going to be a boo bath….
Fearless Frog is my hero
FIRE KNAPP!
What do you want from him?
You guys want him to throw downfield more but he cant with the time he is receiving, correct? He has to check down
He's had time to throw downfield.
The problem is that he appears to be physically incapable of throwing downfield. He double clutches a lot and even his short routes are floating.
Do you have any clips from the game yesterday?
Because i dont remember very many plays where he could. Matt is not a rookie, and will not just loft one 30 yards deep with 1.2 secconds of time in the pocket for the sake of throwing a deep pass. Trust me i think Matt is no where near the top 3 tiers of Qb’s in this league, but is not as bad as the rift he is taking.
I have the game stored on my computer at home, but I don't have a way to cut clips and share them with you.
All I can say is that this is a problem that has been on display for a while. Matt has had time to throw and he’s missing open receivers, floating passes, and holding on to the ball too long. I’m not saying the O-line play is great, but Matt’s inability to throw the ball with adequate strength and zip is making them look worse than they really are.
Pick and bitch, bitch and pick
The game was poorly planned, poorly managed, and poorly executed. I saw no workable recovery plan, and the players seemed to be playing with no emotion whatsoever (with the exception of Curry and Hass). Now Mora’s going to get up on the podium and say that the players need to execute the plays, which is true. It is also the coaches responsibility to plan, manage, and recover. The lions’ share of this debacle goes to the coaches.
Fearless Frog is my hero
FIRE KNAPP!
John have you seen any improvements on defense
From last year to this year under Bradley?
It’s a vague question but an example would be “Are they defending 3rd and 12 better than Marshall’s D did?”.
ME! BANE!
The coaching is better but the talent worse
Peterson is gone and he was, we can be sure now, an irreplaceable pass rush presence. Mebane was better at one. Tru was healthy. Etc.
Seattle is blitzing smarter, but the blitz designs are still stupid
the Tampa 2 elements and quarters coverage is awful, but I think that’s on Mora. In fact, if we assume Mora still has a lot to say about the secondary, it’s been run poorly since he joined Seattle.
Curry's was that he could be a pass-rusher if he was allowed to.
I kid, he has been way down there on things I have been worried about
what about our protection schemes?
We keep Carlson in to single block Mario Williams? How do you not key in on the best pass rusher on the opposing team? I don’t get how our o-line is so confused by stunts and twists, or blitz delays. It seems like we are very vulnerable to inside pressure from a delayed blitz. Every time Matt drops back, I cringe.
by quickhandsandfeet on Dec 13, 2009 4:08 PM PST reply actions
Because they had other guys who are able to rush the passer, notably, their linebacking trio of Barwin, Ryans, and Cushing.
Especially Ryans. The Seahawks had to compensate against other capable defensive players. Also, Okoye and Cody had a lot to do with leaving Carlson out there to defend Williams on that play.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
Was it just me or did Hill get home the time he was sent on a blitz?
That was something I was looking forward to seeing more of this year
Since I know you all love Furness
He said the only reason we haven’t hired Holmgren is because he is in Mexico
Well, to be fair, that's not exactly what Furness said
He said the only reason they aren’t interviewing Holmgren right now is that he’s out of the country.
But Hugh Millen sure looked like he wanted to punch him during that postgame show.
Well seeing as they have the Seahawks, Mariners, and Sounders over at 710
I’d imagine the vast majority of it.
I don't mind Millen when he is on kjr but then you have to listen to the other guys.
Millen seems so frustrated with them most of the time
Millen's often blinded by his loyalty to Mora and Hasselbeck
but he does have at least some football smarts, while idiots like Furness have none.
Is there any hope of seeing more...
Red Bryant, Mike Teel, Cameron Morrah, Derek Walker, etc. now?
We'd have to see some injuries or the coaching staff would have to fired.
If Red is healthy he might get some action, but I don’t think the other guys will play.
SEA!
I really want Suh
He’s a true 3-tech which would allow us to move Mebane back to the one. However, there’s no chance he’ll be there and I’m skeptical about trading up.
I’ve started to see Gerald McCoy slipping in mocks and he very well could be available. He’s not the dominant force that Suh is but he’s a prototype 3-tech and a top talent.
would we trade up in the 1st to get McCoy?
Might be interesting. If we finish with 6 wins(likely) that would put us likely out of reach of McCoy.
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 13, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
No that's what I'm saying
I wouldn’t trade up for either of them but it might be that we wouldn’t have to with McCoy. 3-tech’s not in huge demand and he’s not the presence that Suh is. He could slip to us.
by Hawkhammer19 on Dec 13, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
I missed where you said "skeptical about trading up"
reading comprehension is not my strong suit today, its the blinding Seahawks rage.
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 13, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
I love Suh, and I remember Suh when he was more talent than production
but the further this teams sinks, the less I could justify trading up to get Suh or anyone else. Yes, Seattle needs building blocks, but anyone can bust, and first overall busts are crippling. And I hate to fly in the face of the Suh love, but if you watch more tape on the guy, he takes a ton of plays off. He could bust like anyone else.
i don't agree with trading up 99% of the time
Just thought it was interesting food for though since we do have two first rounders. New GM new philosophy though.
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 13, 2009 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
I think this draft could be loaded enough that Seattle could get two elite talents
as things often do, the Suh hype has gotten out of hand.
it rivals the Sanchez hype of last year
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 13, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
I'm curious what you think McCoy
I don’t see Suh being available but I could see McCoy being there.
by Hawkhammer19 on Dec 13, 2009 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
I do not have an informed opinion of McCoy
The draft coverage might not be as deep as year’s past. My January is busy enough that I am renting a room to concentrate. It may bleed into February, and that’s when I cram tape. So, maybe after the Ides of March I will have a better chance to answer questions.
I've had plenty of opportunities to watch McCoy these past two years. Other than the Huskies, I've watched Oklahoma more than any other team in the country.
And I’d say that McCoy generates more production and factors into the effects of a game from game to game, especially when the better offenses are involved. Suh seems to be… streaky.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
That's my take as well
McCoy is not dominant in any one respect but he’s very active and productive. To me that sounds like the type of high value player that could slip in the draft.
by Hawkhammer19 on Dec 13, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, exactly.
But I have to be fair to Suh. When he’s on, he’s ON.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure about two great picks
Seattle’s first pick should be a winner. Almost every mock I’ve seen has Joe Haden still on the board, and some still have Bradford. I think very likely, that first pick will net a falling star, although it may not be a position of urgent need.
The Denver pick is a lot tougher. Very few mocks have Charles Brown or CJ Spiller lasting that long. Both of the top safeties are usually gone by then too. The crop of guys I typically see lasting that long are almost all 2nd round prospects. I’d feel a lot better about that Denver pick if it was just a bit higher- in just about every 2010 mock I’ve seen, the talent pool dries up really fast in the early 20s.
Without a 3rd round pick this year.
I really would not be surprised to see Seattle use one of its first round picks to trade down and acquire more picks.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
Yep.
Whether or not we do have a lot of needs, I’m sure with the turnover in the FO there’s going to be a lot of turnover on the roster as well. I can certainly see us stockpiling picks.
And why not? If the talent of the latter half of the first is comparable to the middle, it’s worth it to me.
I agree.
With this in mind, it makes me start wondering about which prospects to keep an eye out for. (I’ve only been paying attention to prospects, who, at this point are more likely to go in the top half of the first round).
Who else besides me likes Earl Thomas?
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
Speaking of 3-techs.
I’ve liked the look of Jared Odrick from Penn State. He should be available in the late first or early second and a great pass rusher. What’s more, he could conceivably convert to 5-tech which would allow us to experiment with 3-4 if we miss out on Carlos Dunlap.
by Hawkhammer19 on Dec 13, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Haven't watched him.
If he’s a Paea-like player, I’d be very interested learning more about him. Too bad the college season is pretty much over except for the Bowl games.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 5:01 PM PST up reply actions
It will be interesting to see how Bruce Campbell and Charles Brown perform in the combine.
I think they’re our potential LT options with our top pick.
by Hawkhammer19 on Dec 13, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
Charles Brown I like.
I have a hard time seeing him slip past a team like the Browns or the Lions.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 5:11 PM PST up reply actions
Both of those teams are looking at top 5 picks
Brown isn’t worthy of that kind of money.
by Hawkhammer19 on Dec 13, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
I was talking about top of the 2nd round.
If Brown fell past the 1st round, I have trouble seeing him fall past the early 2nd round.
At this point, though, because of the depth of the QB and Safety positions this year, I see him going really late in 1st, as early as Indianapolis, because none of the teams like the Patriots, Chargers, Cardinals, Saints, Ravens, etc., who are likely to make the playoffs have a need to upgrade at tackle. (Although.. there’s always the Packers, who might be the wild card for Brown as they really do need to make some serious upgrades on their line).
But if Green Bay and Indianapolis were to pass… I have a hard time seeing him slip past teams like the Browns or the Lions in the early 2nd round.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
Oh gotcha.
Well I think if he performs well in the combine he could even warrant a top 15 pick which makes us an eligible candidate. I’d be thrilled if we could get him with our Denver pick. I think the Packers will take a long look at him. They too run a zone blocking scheme which Brown looks like a good fit for.
by Hawkhammer19 on Dec 13, 2009 5:45 PM PST up reply actions
Given his athleticism, he could be a good fit.
I just like him because he makes it very difficult for DE’s to get a sack off of him, though, in the game against Oregon, he had a lot of trouble with their speed.
But, for as athletic as he is, he needs some size. He’s 285. That’s actually why I have him going late in the 1st round.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
Went over to Walterfootball.com
And on their Dec. 11th update, guess who they had as the Seahawks’ pick? Well, maybe it’s not so much of a stretch for Brown to go in the top 15.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
I see us trading one of our 1st rounders next year
For what exactly I don’t know but I feel like we have a lot of leverage above other teams in next year’s draft.
If Denver misses the playoffs the leverage gets even greater because we have two top 16 picks to play with.
ME! BANE!
Denver is 8-5
with 2 of its 3 games againnt Oakland and KC. Den goes 10-6 , makes playoffs
I'd argue that he's pretty close to Suh. But you're right, he has slipped in the mocks.
I’d love to have McCoy on the roster
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 4:43 PM PST up reply actions
Does a new GM lick his chops at 2 first rounders?
Or cringe at the contract thoughts next years CBA is still up in the air?
With a rookie salary restructure likely on its way
I would think that two firsts would be extra appealing since a #8 pick (~$40 million) and a #25 (~$15 million) pick would have combined salaries significantly lower than a #1. Suh could potentially be the last rookie to get a $70 million deal, and as great as Suh is, it has the potential to look like an albatross deal in a few years.
That said, I think Suh will be so coveted that two firsts probably won’t be enough. He deserves the hype, don’t get me wrong, but I think there will be some serious Suh mania near draft day.
Very well said. I see that I'm not the only one who thinks the Seahawks will be picking somewhere around #8.
Looks like they could be tied with several teams with identical records by the end of the season. Does anyone know the tie-breakers for playoff teams, but what are the tie-breakers for draft position for teams with identical records?
On Suh, I think he got robbed yesterday.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
Seeing these questions
Any chance we have another All Questions Answered thread in the future?
ME! BANE!
Sure, if there's interest
I always try to answer questions when they’re asked. There’s something arrogant about an AQA thread.
I'd like it
I like to mull things over and always think of my inquiries and comments long after the related thread has past haha.
by Hawkhammer19 on Dec 13, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions
Me too.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
Moras post game comments really concern me
Why throw the Oline under the bus without blaming Hass at all. Ugh.
still frightens me
I almost miss Holmgren’s subtle criticism of everyone even on there best days.
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 13, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
I wasn't born when Chuck Knox was coaching.
But looking at the tape he was the man who put the Seahawks on the map for the 80s.
I don’t miss Holmgren the playcaller and I don’t miss the GM.
ME! BANE!
I miss Holmgren's leadership and aplomb in the face of adversity.
Mora seems like someone I wouldn’t want managing a Jack in the Box during the lunch rush.
That's the truth.
I work in retail and black friday was a mess with the all the managers have no leadership skills.
SEA!
he reminds me way to much of my current boss(with more experience)
Constantly putting me into bad situations then unfairly criticizing me when things go wrong(Mare situation). I have skills but without quality leadership they are being wasted.
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 13, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
Well the O-line did struggle and Lock is looking bad at left tackle.
He didn’t mention anyone by name, so he didn’t throw any player in particular under the bus, which I guess is good. It’s probably going to end up being an empty threat, the only move that would potentially help is putting Mcintosh and LT and Lock at RT, but there really isn’t anything to gain by doing that.
SEA!
Well he did say that the o-line would be his focus during the next two days
and that they’d use the remaining three games to evaluate the rest of the team. So Hasselbeck isn’t necessarily off the hook.
Interesting that Field Gulls pooh-poohed the idea that Ruskell was going to get pushed out before the end of the season
but now you seem ready to axe Mora and bring on an interim coach.
New management
If Seattle is on the verge of collapse then they probably aren’t the solution.
ME! BANE!
I am not for it, per se
But without Ruskell, and with the team losing, often ugly, it makes sense that Seattle might make the switch.
It's also fair to Mora. If the team is planning to move on without him.
He’s in a tough place, not sure if he even has a job and the players know this.
SEA!
Hmm...
…odds that Mora gets dumped BEFORE the season ends? That he leaves prematurely?
Who else on staff could presumably take over for the rest of the season?
I don't think he'll get dumped, but I see reasons it would make sense.
Quinn, Bradley, Solari and Rollins could all be candidates for the interim. Quinn makes the most sense since he’s already the assistant head coach.
SEA!
true
but he singled out the o-line, he could have just as easily said we are looking at the QB play specifically.
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 13, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
Mora says he doesn't know why Spencer is still wearing the cast.
Thats a good road to go down. (sarcasm)
whats worse, a center with a broken hand that snaps with his wrong hand?
Or coaches who know this and don’t do anything about and then blame said center?
Spencer snapped with his left
for much of 2007. I am not sure what is wrong right now. I think the coaching staff must think he’s ok to snap.
I saw more problems with Matt holding onto the snap than I did with Spencer actually snapping the ball today.
I think you mentioned something along those lines in the game thread.
I think Mora is stumbling into a no win argument
Either Spencer can snap and something else was wrong, or he can’t snap, and why the hell was he playing.
Yeah, 3 times.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
Carl
I hope we get Bradford like your sig says what do you think our chances are of landing him ?
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 13, 2009 5:26 PM PST up reply actions
At this point, if I'm reading the league standings correctly, the Seahawks are slated to have the #8 pick in the draft.
So I’d say pretty good, especially if Locker declares.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
Well... The Redskins could complicate matters.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
I just hope if he's there at #8
if we end up picking there that we take him.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 13, 2009 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
Most mocks that I've seen, have him going between #6 - #10 throughout the season.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
I watched some of that game
And he does look good if we can’t get Brafford maybe JC as a free agent is not the worst thing.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 13, 2009 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
I haven't been convinced by John's articles trying to sell us on Campbell
My point was that Washington might decide to stay with him after investing so much to develop him. That would take them out of the QB derby in the draft.
Oh good!
I don’t want anyone else gunning for him.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
hes sticking with what he knows
and what got him run out of Atlanta.
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 13, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks all for a great first FieldGulls experience
buuut I have to go to my new mother-in-laws birthday dinner
My sympathy.
I think I will move on to the night thread and see if I can like football again. I’ve taken a shine to the Eagles.
good pick
I know you like Desean but McNabb has been one of my favorite non Seahawks for years. I always like a player that doesn’t seem phased by idiotic fans booing him for no reason.
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 13, 2009 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
Then you'll find it easy to root for Philly players for years to come.
Because in my experience, the majority of Philly fans are… well.. idiots.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 13, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
sounds good
I love me some Andy Reid as well. Any coach that could make James Thrash and Todd Pinkston an effective WR tandem……
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 13, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
I've liked the Eagles ever since Reid and McNabb got together.
Pretty offense to watch. Nice WR corps.
Some thoughts from an amateur;
Matt IS too old. Which is sad considering that his mentor is still playing lights out, however it is quite doubtful that even Favre could perform behind that pathetic excuse of an offensive line. That O-line outside of Unger and maybe Willis is more than welcome to seek employment elsewhere next season if any other team would have them. They will not be missed.
Sene-suck would not be missed either next year.
I think you keep Matt on as the aged mentor (from the bench) for Teel or whomever the (please Mike Holmgren) new GM and coach (please not Mora) draft with the (Bradford) 1st, 1st round pick next year.
Defense? I think will be fine if the offense can stay on the damned field however we need……something in that secondary.
Coaching staff? Why in God’s name did the Seahawks hire Greg Knapp? Wasn’t he a coach with the Raiders during their multi-year suck-fest until this year?
Response
Greg Knapp can’t do much with a quarterback that can’t pass further than five yards without floating the ball. There’s no offensive scheme out there designed to work with that.
Keeping Matt to be a mentor to whoever we draft is only reasonable if Matt coughs up a ton of salary and is willing to be buried on the depth chart.
If Mike Holmgren is the new GM you can probably forget about the Seahawks finding a new QB.
The problems with the O-Line are exacerbated by Matthew not being able to throw the ball, which in turn forces him to hang on for too long, which in turn results in sacks, which is then blamed on the O-Line.
Last week
Matt sure seemed to have enough arm strength to connect on a game winning catch 32-yards down the field, did he not? Amazing what happens when someone has more than 2 secs to throw.
He also had a number of passes that badly missed his receivers.
Off the top of my head there was a wide-open look to Nate Burleson early on that he floated over him.
This isn't an O-Line vs. Matt thing.
Both are playing poorly.
Who leads the league in completion percentage of apsses over 20 yards?
im just curious if you know because i do not
Neither are very good
The o-line is worse IMO
The line has played better since Locklear, Spencer, and Sims returned from injury.
Things were bad when Vallos and Williams were starting next to eachother, but the overall play has improved. You’ve also got to consider that some of the sacks Matt has endured is a product of holding onto the ball too long.
The line isn’t great, but it’s not as bad as it’s made out to be. Part of the problem is that they’re working in front of a quarterback that’s having a hard time throwing the ball with zip and strength, and that’s going to make the line look worse than it really is.
If Matt can’t throw a medium-shallow pass anymore, the defense has no reason to do anything but stack the box and rush the passer.
If the line is playing better
Then what do you call yesterday? i just dont understand Brian, Im sorry. I just dont see what your seeing. They showed the Stats yesterday during the game and matt was hurried on half of his 36 passes, including 3 sacks. Locklear is not a LT, but is our best LT on this team, that is saying alot, ALOT to what this line has. Every Elite qb in this league, Even Manning has one Pro Bowl caliber player on its line. Jeff Saturday is better than any 2 OL on our team
I think the ZBS
has alot to do with it IMO, I just dont feel its a great fit for this team. It worked in Den with their personel, in ATL with that personel, and In SF with their personel. I just dont see it working with the type of Lineman we have nor the type of QB we have.
Yesterday was a mixture of poor line play and poor quarterback play.
One effects the other.
If the line plays better, Matt’s declining skills are somewhat masked. If Matt plays better, the offensive line’s issues are masked.
32 yards is not a long pass
this isn’t backyard football.
by John Morgan on Dec 14, 2009 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
It is not a short pass either
Brian said Greg Knapp’s offense can’t operate with a QB that can’t throw longer than 5 yards, well I think this shows that Matt can throw down field on occasion.
It was a nice pass, but it was a 20-25 yard touch pass down the sidline.
I wouldn’t call that throwing the ball downfield.
SEA!
It was hyperbole
A single pass of 25 or 30 yards says little about a quarterback’s arm strength. I am sure many of us could muster a 30 yard pass, but couldn’t throw a five yard out to a covered receiver.
Yikes.
Mike Salk is ripping apart Jim Mora for throwing Spencer under the bus.
This is incredibly discouraging to see from Mora.
The more he does this, the less I’d like to see him back next year.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 14, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions

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