One word: Leadership

by Joshua Kasparek on Dec 14, 2009 7:58 AM PST

No, I'm not talking Mora, nor coaches at all. This offensive line consists of 5 guys in five cubicles executing five single jobs instead of moving together and in rhythm and with purpose. Sean Locklear said Brain farts mental mistakes I say it's that no one on that line is taking command and getting everyone to follow their lead. Lofa leads and facilitated the defenses that lead this team to the playoffs in 2006 and 2007. The line has never had anyone to truly point to that leads that line outside the coaches barking at them. When is it that we stop looking at all the excuses and look at the leadership from players. Leadership isn't a flashy stat or a big slash run or a catch. It is the key reason teams that are good stay good.

Leadership, without it, you can draft all you want, you can sign anyone you want, but without those guys that set a tone and command attention and trust of their teammates this team won't win any divisions or playoffs and won't even dream of superbowl games.

The "I lead by example" argument is a common praise we heaped on Walter. Well, your example is done, so what is this team left with?

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A coaching staff that fails to motivate

by whatever means: reward, fear, etc.

Our Hawks simply give up early in games and rarely fight to the end (the 49ers game was the outlier this year. Detroit doesn’t count lol.)

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 14, 2009 8:22 AM PST reply actions

One word: Talent.

Trying to build a team through unquantifiable intangibles is a fool’s errand. Want to see how well that works? Look no further than the Seattle Mariners under the Bavasi regime.

We don’t need to bring in players who’s job is to bloody the waters or give motivational speeches in the locker room. We need to bring in players that are talented at the game of football. That’s the reason good teams stay good.

by BrianL on Dec 14, 2009 8:31 AM PST reply actions 1 recs

And as for Jones, it wasn't his leadership that made the team good

it was his freakish ability to move all of that mass on his frame at a relatively insane speed, which made him perhaps the greatest tackle ever to play the game.

by BrianL on Dec 14, 2009 8:32 AM PST up reply actions

I didn't see a line that was out played, I saw Five guys doing five jobs.

I saw guys so focus on their jobs alone that no timing and Continuity were continuously non-existent.

Talent is what spencer has. Physical talent. Rob Sims benches 450 Sean locklear has shown inconsistent flashes. Talent has to be mental. too. Leadship is also a talent.

Robbie Tobeck did not posses any dominating physical gifts. He was an overachiever. The simple talent argument would say Spencer is automatically better than him. We all know that isn’t true.

by Joshua Kasparek on Dec 14, 2009 8:46 AM PST up reply actions

You know who's considered to be a smart, solid leader?

Steve Vallos. The media heaped praise on him claiming he’d make the line better because he possesses the intangibles Spencer doesn’t. Take a look at the Thanksgiving game last season to see how well that worked out.

by BrianL on Dec 14, 2009 8:53 AM PST up reply actions

And frankly I'm not sure Tobeck was significantly better than Spencer is now.

by BrianL on Dec 14, 2009 8:54 AM PST up reply actions

If you can find me an article that says that, I'll concede the point. I never read that

by Joshua Kasparek on Dec 14, 2009 8:59 AM PST up reply actions

Thing is I just don't know.

Tobeck was praised by the media for his gritty field general skills, not so much his athletic ability. Spencer is praised for his athletic ability that’s often overshadowed by the media thinking he’s as dumb as a lobotomized hippo. I really don’t know how to compare them, but I just don’t think the difference between those players is as great as it’s often portrayed.

by BrianL on Dec 14, 2009 9:03 AM PST up reply actions

Tobeck was a lot better then Spencer

because he had Hutch and Jones to the left of him.

by B.B.Finnegan on Dec 14, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions

We've all noted how much Spencer is unfairly criticized

and yesterday is of course no different. But I will say, I expect him to be a leader in the absense of Walt. Don’t know if he has been, or not. You might expect the team and the beat writers might be quick to publicize that, if there was anything to mention, his leadership through the adversity.

Regardless of how Steve Vallos might have been characterized in the media in the past, I think this leadership question is a very relevant and legitimate point. The tackles at their most optimum will be average for their respective positions, but this line is not lacking in talent.

It’s fair to say that the line has deferred to Walt, and now there is a vaccuum there. Training camps have been full of reports of the linemen just doing what Walt does. There’s a vaccuum. This game and fallout figures to be a really good catalyst. Don’t like Mora’s composure, but this is a good catalyst. This is all vague, but I can see a compelling case for there being no leadership, there. Coaches howl about accountability. And so the axe is dropping. We may be able to learn a good measure about these five guys (presuming they remain the starters) for this last stretch of the season.

by jacobstevens on Dec 14, 2009 7:09 PM PST up reply actions

Physical strength is one aspect of OL play.

There are many others that affect how a single lineman, or a unit perform. Agility, reaction time, discipline/experience, knowledge of blocking schemes, blitz pickup are other important components. Just because a guy benches 450 doesn’t mean he’ll be an effective blocker.

As to leadership, I don’t think it is as important on the OL as being in sync with the guy(s) next to you.

by waldo rojas on Dec 14, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions

And being in sync with the guys next to you took a hit this season with the early injuries to Lock, Sims, and Spencer.

by BrianL on Dec 14, 2009 9:30 AM PST up reply actions

Yes

There’s no point drafting or picking up someone to be a leader without looking at skillset. That’s why we got Brian Russell.

Some people grow into leaders, some don’t. Sometimes you can pick up leaders, especially older veterans, from other teams but it’s risky. Drafting for leadership doesn’t work, there’s barely any way to tell how the rook’s skillset will work out in the NFL, let alone his personality.

by Thomas Beekers on Dec 14, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions

One word: TALENT.

That, and not leadership, is what the Seahawks need in abundance, and lack at this point in time.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 14, 2009 12:20 PM PST reply actions

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2009/12/14/1199829/one-word-leadership#27120507

by BrianL on Dec 14, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions

To be fair Brian

You didn’t put the word “talent” in caps, two completely different arguments :)

by ciarannh on Dec 14, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions

Sorry... I read your response last night.

Today, while staring at that Fanpost headline, I just couldn’t NOT come in and say the same thing.

We park our cars in the same garage my friend.

Also, in all due fairness, this is a point that deserves redundancy. Talent trumps.
You can’t take a jackass to the derby, you can’t make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 14, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions

I'm just giving you a hard time.

by BrianL on Dec 14, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions

No Prob.

Honestly, in a thread like this, “One Word: Talent” needs to be reposted about every 10-12 comments anyway, just so it finally sinks in.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 14, 2009 2:04 PM PST up reply actions

Looking for a one word answer is foolish

We need talent AND leadership — and a few other things too.

For example:

Aggressiveness.

Luck.

I’m sure there’s lot’s more, but I’m too lazy to list them all.

by Mr Fish on Dec 14, 2009 5:53 PM PST up reply actions

I know this...

but his post headline lead to this sentence construction.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 14, 2009 10:23 PM PST up reply actions

One word: Kitten mittens!

by thebyron on Dec 15, 2009 8:36 AM PST up reply actions

You guys make a great point, generally speaking

But this is not the result of lack of talent. There is talent on that line. The ceiling is a bit low for the tackles, but there is talent.

If you’re battling against the idea that talent isn’t paramount and that a character-driven focus to personnel on a macro scale ought to be the answer to the woes, then your points are a good response. Here, it suggests the problems are from a lack of talent.

by jacobstevens on Dec 14, 2009 7:13 PM PST up reply actions

This.

Going out your way to acquire players with great character is how we ended up with Brian Russell. Or how the Bavasi-led Mariners ended up with Jose Vidro, or Scott Spiezio, or Richie Sexson, or I could go on.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Dec 14, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions