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Carlos Dunlap Careens off Big Timmay's Draft Board

Sours Grapes Treatment

Carlos Dunlap was arrested Tuesday morning for driving under the Artest. He is a potential top ten pick with the size, scouting profile and upside of a great defensive end. What Dunlap lacks is elite production. Dunlap has 17.5 sacks and 24 tackles for a loss in two seasons starting. Good but not elite production, further downgraded by the Gators dominance. Florida is 25-1 over the past two seasons, and Dunlap plays most snaps ears-pinned-back, protecting a big lead. He had a sack against Florida State and Troy, two teams that rank 48 and 53 nationally in sacks allowed. He had three sacks against Mississippi State. The Bulldogs have allowed 1.67 sacks per game, which sounds mediocre at first, but bad when you consider they average 22 pass attempts a game. Mississippi State allows a sack on 7.5% of pass attempts.

Fire Timmay Treatment

Dunlap might bulk up a bit and transition to 3-4 end in the pros. He is listed at 6'6", 290. Dunlap has a good mix of stoutness and playmaking ability against the run, and the height, frame and athleticism required to push the pile, set the edge and keep blockers at bay. Seattle has four linebackers contesting for three spots, and another linebacker, Will Herring, that deserves snaps. Brandon Mebane has proven capable of commanding double teams. His first two seasons, he was bulked up and immovable, yet still agile enough to disrupt. If Seattle re-signed Cory Redding and encouraged Lawrence Jackson to grow into his frame, the pieces are in place to build a 3-4.

That, like drafting Dunlap, only happens if Ruskell is not re-signed. Some teams struggle with the transition to a 3-4, but others, like Green Bay and Denver, have thrived. The key is having the right personnel.

Mebane could be the starting nose tackle. He would rotate with Colin Cole and Red Bryant. Jackson and Redding could play end, with Bryant and Vance Walker in the mix. Nick Reed and Darryl Tapp would be situational pass rushers, and both might benefit from moving off the line. David Hawthorne and Lofa Tatupu would play inside, and Leroy Hill and Aaron Curry on the outside, or Curry inside and Hawthorne outside. The roles could be dynamic. Seattle could move Curry inside on passing downs and sub in Tapp at rush linebacker.

The Seahawks need to improve their pass rush. The team has many good pass rushers, but only two that can consistently work off the line: Patrick Kerney and Tapp. It wants to create pressure without committing additional pass rushers. All teams do. One solution is to add an elite pass rushing lineman. Another is to switch the scheme. Tapp might not benefit as much as Elvis Dumervil, but the two share size and skill sets, and Dumervil has changed from pass rushing specialist, but liability against the run, to pass rush demon--damn the run. Tapp has bulked up to better defend the run. It's worked, but at what cost? He has never looked slower or less disruptive off the edge. Reed is playing his way out of the league. Tackles spring out of their stance and chuck him like so much seventh-round garbage.

This is all food for thought. Seattle doesn't need to draft Dunlap to transition to a 3-4, but his recent arrest is an opportunity to discuss alternative paths for Seattle's young defense. Tim Ruskell does not deserve to be fired, but the move still might be in the best interest of the Seahawks. He has made some shrewd moves in his time and added talent, but like Mike Holmgren, his execution might be masking a flawed plan. Holmgren disliked trick plays, was adverse to the shotgun, and taught a twenty-year old version of the West Coast. It worked when it was perfect, crafted by the master himself, but was resource intense and fragile. I assume Ruskell is building something like to a Tampa 2. He has concerted resources into linebackers and pass rushers. Gus Bradley taught a Tampa 2 in college and broke into the NFL under Monte Kiffin.

But when was the last time a Tampa 2 defense dominated? And can a Tampa 2 succeed without a Simeon Rice, Jared Allen or Dwight Freeney? The two great Tampa 2 teams of the past are both below average defensively this season: Chicago and Tampa. I do not believe a 3-4 is intrinsically better than a 4-3, but, perhaps by accident, Ruskell has assembled a roster that fits a 3-4 in some ways better than it fits a 4-3. In the past, Seattle's best players, like Kerney and Tatupu, were 4-3 players playing in a 4-3 scheme. It could maybe make a 3-4, but was not going to. We're in flux. Ruskell has not been fired, nor re-signed. Suddenly, anything is possible. Even Seattle drafting Carlos Dunlap.

Star-divide

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No thanks on the miscreant.....

For some reason my defensive front thought process is a contradiction. I dislike (for no reason I can pinpoint) the idea of a 3-4, but I love the idea of having 4 linebackers on the field.
Add in the fact that we would have, on most snaps, Tatupu, Hill, Curry and Hawthorne as those 4 linebackers, and it becomes intriguing.
That’s a lot of athleticism.

by skwid206 on Dec 2, 2009 3:55 PM PST up reply actions  

But would we really be playing Tatupu, Hill, Curry and Hawthorne.

Figuring that Tapp would probably be switched to LB?

abender20 hates freedom.

by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 2, 2009 4:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm out of it.

This should be a reply.

abender20 hates freedom.

by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 2, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions  

FUCK!

*shouldn’t

abender20 hates freedom.

by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 2, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Hell yeah

As Steve Raible has said we need to get both Hawthorne and Tatupu on the field at the same time next year and a 3-4 is probably the only reasonable way. We could put Curry and Hill outside as well. But I like using both a 4-3 and a 3-4 in our defensive scheme like Arizona’s but I still like the 4-3 and Carlos Dunlap would be good in either schemes.

by Seahawksfan23 on Dec 2, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting to see you starting to make the shift.

You know my thoughts already through prior conversation, our personnel is very close to 3-4 ready, and likely well suited for it…

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 2, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm guessing...

John read the news about Ron Artest drinking Hennesy at halftime when he was with the Bulls.

by skwid206 on Dec 2, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I laughed.

Not as hard as I did when I read that

“…Hasselbeck dropped his deflector shields and threw himself bodily down the 49ers exhaust shaft and towards the team’s reactor core. He was stopped short by Patrick Willis’ superlaser elbow smash.”

But I still laughed.

by DJ C-Raig on Dec 2, 2009 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say Green Bay has thrived.

They just seem to be finally figuring it out.

abender20 hates freedom.

by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 2, 2009 4:14 PM PST reply actions  

Lofa and Schmidtt will look after young Dunlap. What could possibly go wrong?

Nonetheless, it seems as though we are one player away from an exciting 3-4 defensive scheme. Why not?

All The Way, AIRBORNE!!!

by Airborne Hawk Guy on Dec 2, 2009 4:47 PM PST reply actions  

I forgot about Tapp.

Although John pointed out that the roles could be dynamic. Also, you can never have too many interchangeable parts. Especially in a long NFL season.

by skwid206 on Dec 2, 2009 4:47 PM PST reply actions  

I'm not sure how much where you line has to do with it

If you look at the top ten defenses in the NFL right now in terms of yards per game, 5 play a 4-3 and 5 play a 3-4. I’m certain that personnel and play-calling come far before the ratio of linebackers to linemen you have on the field for your base defense. In any event, Seattle is tied for 10th in the league in sacks, so perhaps pass rush shouldn’t be a #1 priority as of this moment, Maybe the best way to improve Seattle’s defense right now is to build an offense that can sustain drives, put points on the board and force the opposition to play from behind.

by Kevaru on Dec 2, 2009 4:59 PM PST reply actions  

It's different if you look at adjusted DVOA.

I posted what it was at the halfway mark on the 3-4 thread a while back, most of the top teams being 3-4, but of course correlation != causation.

by LantermanC on Dec 2, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the play of our secondary would beg to differ *cough*Kelly Jennings*cough*

Seattle is tied for 10th in the league in sacks, so perhaps pass rush shouldn’t be a #1 priority as of this moment

But that’s off-topic

by rex92 on Dec 3, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I like the idea of a 3-4

And we’re in transition anyway, why not go full bore?

I have a question on it though. It seems like the successful 3-4’s all have playmaking to elite Safeties (Strong or Free), is it the scheme that makes the safety or visa versa? Or just coincidence?

by DJ C-Raig on Dec 2, 2009 5:49 PM PST reply actions  

I think a 3-4 is intrinsically better than the 4-3

More confusion from a basic 4 man rush, more men on the field better suited to defending a pass, more speed on the field and the ability to create some extreme mismatches and confusion in 5 and 6 man blitzes. I think it’s much better suited to todays NFL.

by Nate Dogg on Dec 2, 2009 6:09 PM PST reply actions  

So, we were trying to run a Tampa 2 with Jim Johnson personnel last year

And now we’re trying to run a Tampa 2 with 3-4 personnel? Kudos to Ruskell for a clear defensive vision.

I liked the 4-3 because the 3-4 trend made their players less sought after, but if we can just drop Mebane into NT and plug in our LB corps then maybe it’s worth it.

by Will Kier on Dec 2, 2009 7:00 PM PST reply actions  

What Seattle is doing right now is kind of Jim Johnson-like and I like it. (Insomuch that it uses zone blitzes and not that Seattle blitzes with the same frequency)

I think Seattle is already fielding a true-talent, top-ten defense. Now, I’m alone in this assertion, but nevertheless my point is that I am not advocating an overhaul, only broaching that if Ruskell is in fact not re-signed, Seattle may hop the wagon and go 3-4.

by John Morgan on Dec 2, 2009 7:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I still like the 4-3, I should note

I like that as the 3-4 gets dominant 4-3 resources are cheaper and it’s presumably more effective as fewer teams see it.

And I would imagine it’d end up being easier for everyone if we swap one or two of the LBers in a trade for a DE.

But periodic 3-4 looks would be interesting if the talent is that capable.

by Will Kier on Dec 3, 2009 1:26 AM PST up reply actions  

I always thought the 3-4 DE was more of an easily replaceable cog,

which is possibly why NE traded away Seymour (or because Belichick new they couldn’t win and the Raiders’ offer was too good to pass up). What are your feeling on Terrence Cody? I know he’s supposedly a ‘liability’ on passing downs, but the man makes Andre Smith look like Andre 3000 from Outkast (exaggeration).

When I think of 3-4, I think of Haloti Ngata, or Vince Wilfork, or J Kennedy on SD, those big 350 pound guys. The DEs on a 3-4 don’t get too many sacks anyways. If Mebane were to play the NT, what weight do you think he’d play at?

by LantermanC on Dec 2, 2009 7:37 PM PST reply actions  

Wilfork is listed at 325 and I think that's close to accurate.

Wilfork was 6’1 2/8"-323 at the 2004 NFL Combine. Chris Hovan is about the same size.

Being good at nose tackle is not about sheer mass but the ability to out-torque two blockers. Obviously no man is as strong as two offensive linemen, but good run pluggers twist and slip blocks. They influence blockers to create a pass-rush lane or close a hole, etc. I think Mebane has proven he can do that. I figure he’d play at 320-335. As bulky or slightly bulkier than last season.

by John Morgan on Dec 2, 2009 7:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Dunlop isn't very explosive off the line

I have watched him in 5-6 games this year and last year, and unless my eyes are just going bad – he’s not very quick. I know he’s listed at 290 lbs, so he’s not supposed to be as quick as a 260 – 270 lb end, but he sure doesn’t look like he has very much “fast twitch” in him. I know it’s not a fair comparison at all, but Curry has tons of fast twitch explosion and uses it with devastating power for his size – unlike Dunlop, and there are bigger ends in the NFL with more explosion. I may not be seeing things that well, but quickness and first step explosion are a combination of fast twitch muscle fiber and flat out desire, and every time I see Dunlop push and lean rather than explode and rip, well…I just assumed that’s why he hasn’t gotten a lot more sacks. Quickness and desire are pretty important traits for an “elite” pass rusher, and I’m not convinced that those traits describe Dunlop, at least not from what I’ve seen.

I like Jason Pierre-Paul’s athleticism better than Dunlop’s. He’s the same height (although lighter) and quicker and he uses that to get around tackles or spin back inside. He’s also very raw and looks lost at times, but I like his quickness with the size/speed. If he came out this year he would be interesting in the 2nd round (I wouldn’t touch him in the 1st).

by scratchandsniff on Dec 2, 2009 7:58 PM PST reply actions  

Great write-up

Your feelings expressed regarding Ruskell and Holmgren in the 2nd to last paragraph perfectly mirror my own.

As far as changing to 3-4, I think Seattle has the DL to make the switch, but I’m not sure about LB. 3-4’s require large LBs because they are less protected by the DL in front of them than in a 4-3. Seattle’s LB crew is fairly undersized, except for Curry. In particular, I’d see Tatupu having a hard time adjusting to 3-4.

Its still worth thinking about though, especially if a new GM is brought in.

by kearly on Dec 2, 2009 8:27 PM PST reply actions  

Funny how I thought the exact opposite.

Here’s a copy and paste from my old post.

_x_____x3-4__4-3
I LM H 2.67 2.79
I LM W 317.75 308.11
E LM H 3.46 4.08
E LM W 298.75 273.47
I LB H 1.67 0.79
I LB W 242.54 240.26
E LB H 3.13 1.89
E LB W 258.54 240.11

LM H 3.19 3.43
LM W 305.08 290.79
LB H 2.40 1.53
LB W 250.54 240.16

I stands for Interior.
E stands for Exterior.
LM stands for Lineman.
LB stands for Linebacker.
Height is measured in inches above 6 feet.
So 3-4 lineman are on average a quarter of an inch shorter but 15 pounds heavier.
3-4 linebackers almost an inch taller and 10 pounds on average heavier, but if you look at ILB vs. ELB, they’re both an inch taller, but almost all the weight is in the ELB which is almost 20 lbs heavier.

So ILBs are the same no matter what, so I would think that Lofa or Hawthorne would fit. However I would cut Leroy Hill and his supposedly cap friendly contract and play Curry and Tapp as the OLB.
Surprisingly, the average Lineman weight is just 305 for a 3-4.
Mebane 325, Redding 290, LoJack 290, that equals 301 average. Though I wonder if there is a correlation between adjusted DVOA ranking and line weight. Perhaps the light lines that are bad at D are dragging down the average.

by LantermanC on Dec 2, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Good point

Lofa had some trouble shedding blockers in particular this season

by rex92 on Dec 3, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

3 - 4 defenses are for pussies. Real men use the 5 - 4 Oklahoma

Tapp and LoJack on the ends. Mebane, Bryant and Redding in the middle. Hill and Curry at OLB with Lofa and Heater at ILB.

Profit.

by Bildo on Dec 3, 2009 10:15 AM PST reply actions  

Heh

Given how much better our LBs are than our Safeties, I’d be totally fine with a 4 – 6.

by Bildo on Dec 3, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Didn't read this til now

Fantastic treatment. I like 4-3 better but I am convinced, I would actually rather move to the 3-4, for the next era, with what we have.

by jacobstevens on Dec 3, 2009 4:52 PM PST reply actions  

Another Great Write Up...

Now HERE’S a question…

How do think Seattle would approach the draft differently if we were talking 3-4 instead of 4-3?

My personal guess is that in a 3-4, we might be looking at a DE, QB, (best avail.) type draft, whereas a the current 4-3 might be a DT, QB, DE type draft. I see both DE and DT as needs in our current setup, whereas a move to a 3-4 would eliminate the immediate need for the interior D-lineman.

Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.

by iverson2169 on Dec 3, 2009 7:18 PM PST reply actions  

I think part of the beauty of it

or at least part of the draw to me, is how near seamless a transition it would appear to be, talent-wise, that the draft would be approached the same way, which is offense-centric, IMO. Nose tackle is probably the biggest question mark, but I think we’d like our chances of that working out, if we made the switch, wouldn’t we? The rest of the pieces feel nearly confirmed, that they would work.

by jacobstevens on Dec 4, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions  

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