Seattle Seahawks Fucking Embarrass Themselves: Seahawks 7 - Bucs 24
by John Morgan on Dec 20, 2009 3:54 PM PST
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PrintEvery so often, a time comes for rapid, comprehensive and radical action. The Seattle Seahawks are in crisis. The dam has bust, the fire station ablaze and the leadership is a bunch of dirtbags. We're about to burn to death or drown trying.
Jim Lawrence Mora officially tips the scales against Tim Ruskell. He is among the most incompetent leaders I have ever studied. He is considered like Caligula, fair like Stalin, confident like Marat and smart like a donut. This week, in order, he swapped his right guard and center after shaming and questioning the toughness of said center: Chris Spencer; He revealed that other teams perceive the Seahawks as soft and tacitly expressed his agreement; Voiced his thinking that for Seattle to be better, it needs more "dirtbags"; Led those dirtbags, through alternating three-man rushes and six-man blitzes, to its nadir as a modern franchise.
I am sick of fans having a better plan for this franchise than Tod Leiweke. Seahawks fans deserve better than this.
1. Respectfully fire Jim Mora.
2. Promote Dan Quinn.
3. If you cannot match the Mariners find; at least match the Mariners method: Find a General Manager that is as modern, considered, hard working, open and analytical as Jack Zduriencik.
Now.
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Fire Mora and cut Hasselbeck
Actually blow it up. I don’t even want half of our offensive players on here.
Bruce DeHaven must go.
I'd like someone, ANYONE to
tell me one good reason that Teel should not start next week. We’re going to lose anyway, why not see if there might still be a competent QB on this God-forsaken crappy assed team. I almost said “That does it, we’re Detroit.”
But Detroit put up more of a fight against Arizona than Seattle did.
Mora – Fired.
Knapp can take his non-blocking zone BS with his useless ass out the door.
Hasslebeck, GTFO!
Matthew USED TO BE a pro QB. Now? He’s f**king pathetic. AT BEST.
by mrcoffee1969 on Dec 20, 2009 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
On tonight's Jim Mora Show with Paul Silvi, Mora answered a question about playing Teel
His answer was that the only way they’d play Teel is if both Matt and Seneca are injured. He equated playing Teel to “throwing in the towel” and he swore that he would never do that. Instead, he will use every snap as an opportunity to work on perfecting the things they need to do in order to improve.
Throwing in the towel on what?
The season?! It’s over! The only thing we have left now is to see where the talent is on this team for the future. This is why if for no other reason he should be gone.
Also a die-hard Hawks fan.
by Hopefulmsfan on Dec 20, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions
Mora doesn't think you build toward the future by not playing to win
He knows the season is lost, but in his usual corny style (which kinda reminds me of Chuck Knox), he’d probably say the future begins today.
He equated playing Teel to "throwing in the towel"
Proving beyond the shadow of a doubt that Jim Mora is a blithering idiot.
What? No SOUL?
by mrcoffee1969 on Dec 21, 2009 7:19 AM PST up reply actions
I've lost all confidence in Mora
And I shall not be going on his mountaineering expedition. (Monty Python reference)
Cut him we should have traded him 4years ago
Since the 2005 season I have been screaming LINE!!! apparently I have no power to change things but everyone I know has said Hasslebeck is Seattle’s “best player” and I have said he’s a chump, with the game understanding and common sence of a 2nd year qb (see sunday’s game for clear examples). Hopefully Mora can get something for him this season… but I think he has expired and his playing ability is truly visable so I believe we’ll be apying him regardless if we play him or not next year.
As far as Mora goes, you do not shoot the guy who inherits the other guys mess until you give them a honest chance and still do not see progress. Mora has had to deal with a lot this season especially with injuries and trying to get a bunch of banged up spoiled players to get with his program. I think seeing Hasslebeck, James, and Jones go away in the off season would tell the rest that Mora wants to win, especially if he takes that room and gets some vetran line depth.
If you are looking for heads to drop …. who the hell is in charge of conditioning in Seattle?!?!?!?! I’m guessing the players wives and friends becasue the physical condition seems similar to most of the people posting to this page. 2 years of having an injury curse?…. Thats not a curse that’s coaching, staffing and player issues. If these guys want to make it in the NFL they have to work at it and get in shape for it… if Seattle is going to turn it around they need players to show up 365 days not just for 21 weeks. I hope Mora sees this and just opens the team up…. if you want to start prove it to him… the rest of them should have pink slips attached to their lockers because there are other players that would like to play and are willing to work at it . Seattle doesn’t need to be listed as another team that people go to when they want to get a free pay check.
FUCK MATT
I cannot stand watching him 4 turnovers today way to win one for the Buc’s matty.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 20, 2009 4:03 PM PST reply actions
its official
Full rebuild in progress
by bankingonit on Dec 20, 2009 4:04 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Rebuild won't start
until this team has a captain.
John, forget Curry
I think you should address how badly Hasselbeck has played and how much Seattle needs to replace him.
Bruce DeHaven must go.
It's either obvious or people are in belligerent denial and won't be swayed.
by John Morgan on Dec 20, 2009 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
People that think
Matt is still good need to be flogged.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 20, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
Seriously
I live in S. Carolina and Delhomme still has his defenders, chief among them the Panthers’ owner.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Delhomme has positive history there
Mora has none here…I hope this comment rings true
Huh.
here in Columbia, I think people are too busy fellating their Steelers memorabilia to care about the Panthers. Seriously….I’ve been here six months and have seen exactly ONE dude with a Panthers hat on.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 20, 2009 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
Then maybe I need to be flogged
Matt may be hurt, but his sudden inability to make good decisions is not the normal thing that happens to players as they age. Something else is going on here. We’ve seen this from him before, the first year he started in Seattle. I remember him looking the same way in Husky stadium. In fact I remember booing him myself there. He got benched for Dilfer and when he returned he was a different player.
Could perhaps this be Matt not getting the new offense, which I’m sure is what was happening before? Last time he found out he didn’t know the offense as well as he thought, maybe the same is true now. Trouble is, he doesn’t have Holmgren and Zorn to help him. Maybe the offense isn’t instinctive to him now, and the old offense was. This just doesn’t look like the same player any more. It looks like Hasselbeck, the early years.
Maybe he’s washed up, but I can’t help but wonder if he wouldn’t be playing better if Zorn was still here.
He'd be better if
Hutch was here too, but you have to adapt do you see Peyton Manning looking around for Tony Dungy or winning games and not worrying about it ?
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 20, 2009 9:50 PM PST up reply actions
The decision making is gone because he has no confidence in his arm
He can’t go downfield with any accuracy and he can’t zip balls into tight spots. He doesn’t have an NFL caliber arm and that leads to a lot of dump offs and some questionable decisions when he’s forced into long down and distance.
Keep in mind
that Matt’s decision making was always suspect. He made lots of bone head decisions early on with Holmgren, had them slowly beaten out of him, and people forgot about them. I think he wants to win so badly and is trying so hard to win that he’s back to making some of those mistakes again. The twirly bird special is gone, but he’s still been throwing into some triple coverages, or that “fumble” where he was trying to toss the ball to Forsett to make the first down.
Heh.
But we did see the “whirly – aborted – toss – to – fumble”
My dad is one of those people
that blames it entirely on the line. Couldn’t convince him otherwise.
It’s easy to differ blame if everyone shows signs of suck.
Hard to argue that the team would not
suck less if the blocking scheme played to the strengths of the personell. I blame Greg Friggin’ Knapp for this.
What? No SOUL?
by mrcoffee1969 on Dec 21, 2009 7:24 AM PST up reply actions
Absolutely sure.
It was a much discussed story in Holmgren’s final season that Mike Solari was going to install a ZBS to replace Holmgren’s demanding power blocking scheme.
I will respect your knowledge and defer...
If thats the case, I missed that.
I believe ZBS is good and can work, but blocking scheme is only part of a play, and I’m not high on Knapp’s plays.
This is a passing league.
No offensive coordinator’s playbook is going to work if they don’t have a serviceable quarterback.
I think this is the big question on Knapp.
Does he realize that he has a QB who can no longer be effective? I don’t blame him for not switching to Wallace or Teel now, but if we go into next season with the exact same QB situation, then I’ll start blaming the coaches when the offense stalls under Hasselbeck.
by Mind of no mind on Dec 22, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure we'll ever know what Knapp thinks of Matt
Mora has said that Matt is the starter and neither backup will see time unless he gets hurt. Wouldn’t want to throw in the towel.
Not replace. Supplement.
To be honest, I never saw it on the field. I very well could have missed it altogether, my eye isn’t that trained. But I can see it, and I can see “hat on hat” blocking. But anyway, wasn’t fully replaced, last year. And Solari and DeBord weren’t ZBS guys like Mudd and Gibbs. Solari was just well, well versed in blocking philosophies period and had apparently been familiar enough with it.
Nonetheless, it only speaks worse of the transition, that more time and reps were allegedly given it before this training camp. And no, I don’t blame Knapp. I don’t like cut blocking, but I find the scheme to be pretty effective. All in all, there was a lot of transition to overcome. But that’s clearly not the problem, here.
by jacobstevens on Dec 21, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
Depends how fast I can drive and how quickly I can secure guns.
by John Morgan on Dec 20, 2009 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Heh. I would love to see him fired.
I’m just predicting that’s what management will be thinking.
The "why now"
was what I was responding to. I assume the “why” is that Seattle is getting crushed by the visiting Bucs.
Well, they've expressed support thus far.
This team sucked before the Bucs game. I just didn’t think they would change their mind after one game.
It's not one game
It’s getting blown out by the Bucs. Seattle is now one of the five worst teams in football, and playing like, possibly, the worst.
I agree -- I'm totally on board with you, you don't have to convince me.
I sincerely hope management is too. But my prediction is that they are not.
This is a horrible team. It did not need to be this bad.
I cannot believe a single player has any respect for Mora. Unless they plan on gutting the whole team, think changes need to start at the top. This coaching staff sucks.
by Trojan Knight on Dec 20, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
Mora has exhibited an utter lack of ability to lead this team.
Raising his voice, calling out players, shuffling lines is not leadership.
by Trojan Knight on Dec 20, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
I can't remember exactly what was said
but during the Broadcast they shared Rob Sims’ reaction to Mora calling the line out. Sims did not seem pleased.
Mora is probably dumb enough to believe that because he called out
Olindo Mare was the reason for Mare have a great year. He was trying the same psychology on the line. He doesn’t know how to run a team.
Probably not very good.
Ownership has expressed confidence in Mora.
How the hell have the Mariners and the Seahawks swapped fortunes with eachother?
The Mariners had one of the most incompetent ownership groups in all baseball headed up by one of sports biggest idiots in Chuck Armstrong.
There are people in the Seahawks organization who need to be humbled and quickly.
Thank You for that, Jack Z!!!
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Easier to do in baseball than football.
by Aaron Campeau on Dec 20, 2009 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
Because of nerdy advanced stats?
I’m assuming you mean it’s easier for different reasons. I would think it’d be easier in football, as drafted players are more “pro ready”, as opposed to baseball players that generally spend years in the minors.
My “nerdy stats” comment refers to Jack Z doing essentially what LL/USSM endorses.
by AtomicGarden on Dec 20, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions
But not impossible. The Dolphins climbed out of their 1-15 hole pretty fast
But I agree, the odds are slim. Football is far more difficult to quantify.
Management is doing what good leadership should do
Not become the story and support the troops. If you make a change you don’t make it rashly and in front of cameras.
This ceases to be true when someone is categorically incompetent.
Swift and deliberate action must be done.
I agree
I’m just saying we shouldn’t see Management’s pre-game statements of support as concerning. If they are going to make a decision they should make it without hints and leaks and undermining….I.e. not what Mora is doing. Decide and act deliberately
Absolutely as it should
I like what used to be the low front office drama of the seahawks vs. say the Redskins and Cowboys.
Could be PR talk though.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 20, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Am I the only one old enough to remember Mondale saying he was 1000% behind Eagleton?
Not really a sports memory, but strictnine’s comment brought it to mind.
Maybe the sports execs who offer similar meaningless votes of confidence all came of age during the years Mondale was running for President, and they all absorbed the idea that this is how “serious men” conduct their business?
Mora's a defensive coach
what the hell is preventing him from telling Bradley to stop?
We know Mora is an idiot
But Bradley has to realize the 3 man rush is not working.
Bruce DeHaven must go.
Well, you saw his secondary.
Do you really think he’s that great of a defensive coach?
At times Kelly Jennings has been our best DB
Trufant seems handicapped and Wilson has looked like what Wilson should look like with his toolset
Last year Trufant was healthy and off a probowl year.
And we had the worst secondary in the league.
Sorry I was confusing Mora and Bradley in the comments above
I thought you were referring to Bradley this year.
Could be worse
Could be about to lose to Jamarcus and friends.
At least your other pick will increase in value.
Yeah but we were hoping the Broncos would go 0-16
AND it would also be nice that the pick would be #1
Wow, another INT. I need a week off from football.
I don’t even want to open my Green Hasselbeck jersey on Christmas.
SEA!
^ This.
I wore my #8 proudly today.
I no longer consider him an asset to the team, but I will always be fond of what he has done for the Seahawks. I will never hate him.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 20, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
Pretty sure it's easy to be " Great "
With to HOF linemen on your blindside and SA in his prime.
Matt totally overrated.
Idiot.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 20, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
I agree.
Hutch and Alexander totally carried his ass in 07.
by Mind of no mind on Dec 20, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
We threw the hell out of the ball that season
SA was already done that was Matty’s last glimpse of being decent.
It’s going to be 2010 not 2007 if you were thinking Matt’s going to not suck for some reason in the future.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 20, 2009 5:57 PM PST up reply actions
Does is it time for this statement?
Cut Hasslebeck, sign J. Campbell
Yeah, fuck the dude who decided not to slide with four defenders in his grill and lateral it to any blue shape he sees behind him.
by Anticitizen_One on Dec 20, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
That was my favorite of his
Five turnovers today.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 20, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
Why the hostility?
He’s old and battered. He was our best QB ever. Do we have to be so vicious?
Right now, for this current Hasselbeck
This is justifiable.
Otherwise agreed.
Bruce DeHaven must go.
Is it Matt's fault for sucking or the team's fault for playing hi through the suck
Maybe we say it sucks to watch his poor play, but not demean him like he’s a worthless human being. Reserve that for Mora who pretty clearly deserves to be treated like a dirtbag
just wanted to add
Hass has been a stand-up player over the years and someone I think teammates respect as a leader. He doesn’t blame other people, he fights through injuries, etc.
Definitely a man.
I don’t think most people get how hard it is just breathing with broken ribs.
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 22, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
I love matt
Best QB we’ve ever had.
But this is unbelievably bad. No one should tail off like this.
Bruce DeHaven must go.
I agree but its not like he's willfully tanking or bitching and talking shit
His body or mind just is not the same as it used to be for football
Exactly
I have zero hatred for the man, but he playing some ugly football. I think he needs to be put down.
He's always going to be one of my favorite Seahawks ever
but it’s time to move on.
Travis get your gun time to take
Yeller behind the shed.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 20, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
I think the worst thing the Hawks should have done but never did
was get a good developmental QB to work behind Matt that could have allowed a smoother transition a year ago when Matt was beat up. then they could have transitioned Hass to a backup “counselor” to the young guy or at least made a divorce more tolerable. Unless they really thought Wallace was the future which would have been stupid.
David Greene
haha, Ok, i’m probably the only one who thought that was funny
by B.B.Finnegan on Dec 20, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
I have never liked Eagle scout Matt as a person
But in between church time he did find a few great years in a Seahawk uniform. Also, what a nice little defense we got out there. Yeah!
Emerald City Funk Machine
by blackvanilla on Dec 20, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
Don't care for Matt
as a person anymore than I care for Rankin he’s just another guy that rode a great line and running back into an overrated career.
Thanks Matt and goodbye don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 20, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
No team could have been as good as the 2005 Seahawks were without a very god quarterback.
Things are not black and white.
by John Morgan on Dec 20, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
absolutely. all we need is a new God Quarterback.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Tim Tebow
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 20, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry, he's the God Quarterback we need.
(not really)
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 21, 2009 3:29 AM PST up reply actions
You are a fine leader, John
Emerald City Funk Machine
by blackvanilla on Dec 20, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe Shaun benefited from a great qb and great line?
by somepnoy9189 on Dec 20, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
BTW
I didn’t subscribe to FG back in the day, but what is the general take on shaun in 05 and after?
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 23, 2009 12:36 AM PST up reply actions
I hold no ill will towards Matt
but he is not a starting caliber QB as things stand. This organization needs to find his replacement now.
I'd start Seneca one week
Teel the next.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 20, 2009 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
What drawback could there be to starting Seneca next week and Teel the next week
A) Matt, if he stays our QB next year, can only benefit from more rest and pain relief, he’s old and battered.
B) If Seneca or Teel can show SOMETHING they might be worth keeping.
Might as well give them a shot to prove they should be on the roster next year.
Heck, i’d support starting Teel both weeks. We’ve seen what Seneca can do already.
I think that was Strictnine's point.
Seneca is bad and has near 0 chance to improve. Teel maybe has a shot.
Highest QB rating on the Seahawks ?
Seneca.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 21, 2009 1:16 AM PST up reply actions
Your kidding me right?
Seneca is clearly a terrible QB. He makes the most fundamental mistakes. At least Hass knows how to throw a ball away. Seneca’s issues are clearly in his head, and he’s been in the league long enough that there’s no real hope that those will correct themselves. Teel, however, I would like to see. Even if it’s in 3rd or 4th quarter trash time. Just give him some experience so we can see how he does.
Let Seneca work with the first team
And not run him out for some stupid wildcat play. He had a better record last year than Matt also I think right now he’s a better QB but probably not good enough to be our starter.
That said it costs nothing to look at him Matt is garbage.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 21, 2009 2:28 AM PST up reply actions
I will seriously do something rash if I ever see Seneca
on the field again, except as a receiver.
Start Teel, nothing at all to lose. Nothing. This season is done. I’m sure Seneca is a nice guy, but he doesnt belong behind center
I've figured it out!
Seneca doesn’t throw the ball out of bounds and rushes for a -5 loss out of bounds because he’s aware of QB rating. It all makes sense now, because that would add a 0 for 10 to his passing stats.
Seneca started
3 wins for us last year Matt started one maybe that’s a stat you care about.
Seneca manages the game better than Matt, is more mobile and has a better deep arm I see no reason for him not to play.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 21, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
Wins are even worse than QB rating
because they include defense, special teams, and RB fumbles etc. as well, whereas QB rating is limited to the QB which on its own skews TDs without regard to holding on the ball too long, fumbling the ball, strength of the defense played against, etc.
Perhaps if it were 4 years ago, but from the many starts Seneca has had over the years, I think he has proven that he is not an NFL starter, and perhaps not even an NFL backup. A wildcat trick play option, but he’s nothing more than a game manager (plus I think his legs are overrated, though it may just be because you need your head to tell you where to go for your legs to work properly).
I wouldn't go that far.
I think he’s very good for a backup QB. I think he’s a terrible option as a starting QB though.
That was last year
This year Seneca has regressed so badly he’d blow any game for us…he already blew the Chicago game.
FIRE JIM MORA NOW!
by SSreporters on Dec 21, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
Sensational
That running TD to make it 38-10 was vital.
FIRE JIM MORA NOW!
by SSreporters on Dec 21, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
Seneca did enough for us to win
That was on Mare remember ?
We had the lead but Cutler hit Hester for a game winner our DB’s tackled each other.
If Matty had played it would have been a 30 point loss.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 21, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
We had 5-6 trips to the red zone
Didn’t get a touchdown.
Seneca did enough for us to win and did as much to lose in the form of an INT that cost us 3 points and the inexcusable 1 yard pass on 4th and 2.
FIRE JIM MORA NOW!
I've seen too much of Seneca already, thanks.
Teel, sure. Seneca, no. If we want to lose five yards and a down when he runs out of bounds then let’s just have Matt kneel instead.
Brian Russell laughs from his apartment he hasn't finished unpacking in, in God knows what town
by Anticitizen_One on Dec 20, 2009 4:16 PM PST reply actions
Brian Russell has his feet up sitting in his luxury home
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Yeah, so if I were you John
I’d completely avoid looking at tape this week.
Nah
He should look at tapes so we can really see how bad we have fallen. And if there is any light at the end of the tunnel.
Anybody want to go get drunk with me and dirt bag Mora's house?
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
just kidding really
the guy deserves firing, but not harassment at home. I will hurl metaphorical dirt bags without restraint.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Next home game a bunch of fans should go to game dressed as dirtbags
If Mora is still here
I hope Bucs fans don't think that this means their team is turning around.
Much more of an indictment of the Seahawks I think.
Well, they should definitely enjoy it.
I just hate giving false hope.
its just like us beating the Rams
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Rams will draft Suh
And he will dominate Seattle and the rest of the NFL for years to come. 89 sacks a game.
Bruce DeHaven must go.
TD RAIDERS!
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
20-19
35 seconds left!
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 20, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions
Oh wait they're 8-6, right?
They can still miss the playoffs even with a 9-7 record.
Bruce DeHaven must go.
And, it's over.
20-19. Muahahahahaha
Fuck you, Broncos.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
I think I just found myself the new leader in the "Defend Matt" leaderboard
I dare say there is no quarterback in the league, including Manning, who could step in right now and change things. Line may have had OK day, but what about his receivers? There were dropped balls, and we don’t know if they were running correct/accurate routes. Branch blows and Housh has given up.
Bruce DeHaven must go.
Surprise surprise.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 20, 2009 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
And to justify the checkdowns (not sure it's the same guy)
Checking Down is the result of poor play calling down feild, and poor line play, not Matt Sucking. 3 screens in a row, when down by 14? Thats not Matt thats KNAPP, we are continuously out coached. Look at all of the catches that our WR have to make, they are in coverage, thats what results in interceptions, when was the 1 time this season you saw a blown coverage by the defense against us?
Bruce DeHaven must go.
Yikes.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 20, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
Theres truth in this
I dont think Matt is good enough anymore to overcome shitty playcalling, shitty line play, shitty receiver play, shitty DB play… want more? Shitty special teams.
Branch does blow and Housh has given up.
Matt isnt great. We do need a new starting QB. But whatever anger you feel should be shared. He isnt sucking all on his own.
How long until the presser begins?
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
I saw butler stop his feet. because the ball was dead. How much proof do you need?
by Joshua Kasparek on Dec 20, 2009 4:29 PM PST reply actions
I'd like the Redskins to win too
For draft position. I do NOT want to draft in the top 5 in the last draft with no rookie salary slots.
Even when this team has been bad I've never seen them quit.
Last year sucked, but the team played hard for the Walrus. This is the worst I’ve felt about the team since….probably since I’ve been a fan.
SEA!
Game ball goes to ME! BANE!
Screw it I know he’s trying out there and succeeding. I love Mebane and can’t get enough of him.
ME! BANE!
Bruce DeHaven must go.
I just wish they continued doing what was working
RUNNING THE DAMN BALL
by somepnoy9189 on Dec 20, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
So will Mora fire knapp to scapegoat him?
and try to save his own job?
It would be pathetic, and I sort of expect it at this point.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
If Mora isnt gone at the end of this season, I will be shocked
You can tell he and the players are not playing the same game.
A good HC would have gone to the OC and said lets stick with the gameplan
it seems to be working. Instead he sat there and pouted
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.
I was getting pretty aggravated that the Seahawks abandoned the run the minute they first fell behind.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 20, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions
Not at all. The first quarter run offense was working.
Knapp abandons the run like a total coward. Mora demands his O linemen to be tough dirtbags and then lets his OC abandon the run after one quarter. This is the Gang that Can’t Shoot Straight.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
I was laughing at Tampa Bay's DT's actually being unable to match up against Unger.
No wonder the run game actually worked.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 20, 2009 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
I noticed some good push from Unger, etc. too.
Fortunately for the Bucs, they have their QB of the future and can land the best DT in the draft if they want. At worst they end up w/ McCoy to plug into the middle of that line. Wilkerson and White have been decent DEs. At a stud DT and they could vastly improve.
This.
OK, I have to vent here.
I work late nights. Typically I get home on Sunday morning at about 8 in the morning and head straight to bed, attempt to squeeze in 4 or 5 hours of sleep and wake up in time for the afternoon games so that I can at least follow the Seahawks games in real time, despite the fact that they never televise the games out here.
This is how the Seahawks reward my sacrifice: by laying an egg against the worst the league.
I don’t profess to have 1% the football knowledge that John has, but I’ve read enough here from people who know more about the game and the team than I do. This team is shaming its fans.
How are they shaming us? They shame us by coming in woefully unprepared for every game, falling behind by two touchdowns or more in at least five games that I can recall off the top of my head. They shame us by trotting out a quarterback with a fork so big sticking out of his back Paul Bunyan could eat a salad with it. They shame us with boneheaded playcalling on both sides of the ball. They shame us with a head coach who, if you asked me, probably lost the locker room in Week 3 when he accused Mare of singlehandedly losing the game.
It would be disrespectful to the fans of this team – you know, the people who provide the revenue for this team to write its paychecks – for the ownership not to fire the entire coaching staff, release every player not pulling their weight (that includes Hasselbeck and Walt), and start from scratch. I can sit through, or at least zone out for, a season filled with growing pains. What I won’t tolerate is yet another season of a team that’s been held together with spit and bubble gum for the last two years falling apart.
We deserve better.
by Hmph on Dec 20, 2009 4:46 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
It's so hard for me to see us winning any of our next to games
Packers are just going to throw the ball all over us
And
Chris Johnson is going to get his 2000th yard over us
5-11
approx. 9th pick in the 2010 draft.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
UPDATE:
If the season ended today, Seattle would pick 7th. The first tie breaker is strength of schedule, something Seattle has a big lead in. The only teams that have weaker SOS are teams not competing directly with Seattle for draft position, so when it comes to tie scenarios, the Seahawks will pick first of the tied teams in round 1.
If Seattle finishes 5-11, meaning the don’t win another game this season, they would draft no worse than 7th. If they lose out and the Redskins win 1 game or more, they will pick 6th. They could also leapfrog Cleveland or KC if those teams win out and Seattle loses out. Absolute best case scenario, the Seahawks pick 4th, but more likely they’ll pick 6th or 7th (assuming they lose out).
i know its the holidays
But I absolutely hate keith olbermann.
by bankingonit on Dec 20, 2009 5:02 PM PST via mobile reply actions
As do I
But it has more to do with his politics.
by mrcoffee1969 on Dec 20, 2009 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
Live press conference
Sounds pretty dejected
http://www.950kjr.com/mediaplayer/?station=KJR-AM&action=listenlive&channel_title=
I turned it on and he was immediately bashing the secondary and saying it's god awful
which, isn’t exactly wrong but it’s like complaining your feet hurt while you are drowning. There’s bigger problems that we have to deal with than our secondary.
Well, he can do no wrong after all.
Which is why he’ll still be on the field for the last snap of the season.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 20, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
And the post game guys are going to cry over Holmgren
“I feel like the guys in charge aren’t listening to the fans!”
Shut Up, Bill Wixey
the fans shouldn’t have a role in picking Mike Holmgren.
mora is going to cry
I’m going to cry
by bankingonit on Dec 20, 2009 5:08 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Where are you listening to the post Game???
by somepnoy9189 on Dec 20, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
Mora as head coach was supposed to be a feel good story too
Local coach comes home, leads team to Super Bowl, Alaska rejoices
by B.B.Finnegan on Dec 20, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions
Well
710 Seattle is just garbage, and that link above is just commercials. I have no idea where to find it.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 20, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
Not quite.
Shaun thought he was still elite in 06 and 07. Anyone who is turning on Matt is doing so simply because they don’t like it when their players play poorly. Hopefully most people will remember what he’s done for this team and understand that Peyton Manning would have trouble succeeding in this offense.
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 20, 2009 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
Peyton Manning
should not be in the same breathe with Hasselbeck ever even more so right now.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 20, 2009 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
I get your point
but they’re both starting quarterbacks in the NFL.
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 20, 2009 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
Greg Knapp's offense
isn’t proven in the NFL. Mike Vick had his best passing seasons before he was under Greg Knapp and only did well because Knapp’s offense is subjected to completely breaking down when not executed well which played to Vick’s ability to improvise.
This isn’t a testament to how good Matt is, but how poorly the offense is run.
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 20, 2009 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
Touche
I’ll go ahead and concede that point, given that I really don’t know anything about how that offense was run compared to the Falcons’ and ours.
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 20, 2009 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
I keep thinking that our O line might look just fine with Manning at QB
Hass has become downright skittish and erratic.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Matt definitely fears for his life every time drops back.
It’s been like that ever since Thanksgiving last year. Given how solid Matt was in 07, it really makes me think that you just might see some happy feet from any quarterback with our 08, early 09 line.
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 20, 2009 9:31 PM PST up reply actions
This statement bothers me.
Mind backing it up?
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 21, 2009 12:18 AM PST up reply actions
Quarterbacks are more than able to blow up a blitz by themselves
by audibling into a different play (simply going into the shotgun would help greatly) and making quick throws. Peyton does both of those things really well. For some odd reason, Matt isn’t doing the former and seems incapable of doing the latter.
And lets not forget that the offensive line isn't bad
They’re giving Matt a reasonable amount of time to get rid of the ball. They blow assignments on blitzs up the middle more than most teams, I think, but are an otherwise average line.
As am I.
Yeah, I’m sure Manning would have a terrible time throwing to TJ Houshmanzedah, Deion Branch, and John Carlson.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 21, 2009 3:33 AM PST up reply actions
TJ just said "Thinking this team doesn't have good players and that's why we're losing, they sittin' behind a desk and they know nothing."
by Joshua Kasparek on Dec 20, 2009 5:17 PM PST reply actions
I agree wholeheartedly
If the team added a franchise QB and a coaching staff that fit the talent, this is a 8-8 team at least.
So how is that much different than right now?
Ignoring the coaching, they don’t have a franchise QB and are 5-9.
In case I misunderstood your question- you were implying that 5-9 is not far from 8-8?
If that was your point, I’d argue the Seahawks are FAR from being a .500 team right now. 3 of their 5 wins came against the Rams and the Lions.
And I think 8-8 would be at worst their record with a Matt Ryan type QB and a DC that properly used the defense. The only problem is that franchise QB’s are ridiculously hard to obtain and drafting them is generally the riskiest move a GM can make.
wow.
well said John. This team is regressing every week. Whatever ‘system’ Jim is trying to install – it isn’t working. There are no excuses left. No measure or words appear to be productive. It’s time to start over.
Something I posted in part 2 of today's game thread that I want to repeat here in the postgame thread
“If they [the players] did quit, they’re gambling that the new GM will blame Mora and not them
But if what Leiweke suggested is true and the Seahawks are staying with Mora, a lot of players might have played themselves out of a job. Mora’s not going to keep anyone who didn’t make an effort today.”
Actually, even if there is a new head coach next year, he won’t want the quitters on his team either. If a coach wants to know who’s a quitter and who’s not, the tape of this game should answer all such questions.
So if any of the players deliberately mailed it in as a way to get back at Mora, all they did was hurt themselves.
Mora is exactly like my boss
He blames me(the only IT person cause he fired my boss) when the developers(which he used to be one of) write shitty code that doesn’t work on the live servers. He makes personal comments, yells a ton, and in general nobody respects him. I don’t want to work for someone like that.
I had to look that one up
but it sounds about right(even though I’m still a little confused). The favorite term I heard to describe him was “Seagull Manager”.
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 20, 2009 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
It means someone basically gets promoted BECAUSE they are an asshole
Say you’re a manager and one of your employees is a total pain in the ass. There are two ways to get rid of him (or her). Fire him, or promote him. A boss with balls fires them, but a sackless boss promotes them to get them out of their hair and make them someone else’s problem. This can then repeat and repeat, and sometimes you have real nimrods reaching some of the highest places in their company.
A spinoff of this is the Dilbert Effect
where incompetent people are promoted to middle manager positions so their damage to the company can be limited.
Anyone else at the game?
and notice that right before they announced the starting lineups – Branch was first t be announced, but about 5-6 defensive players came out right when they annouced Branch’s name. It was odd and a massive show of disrespect to Branch, and an obvious display of complete lack of focus for the game in front of them.
Perhaps I’m making something out of nothing, but it just didn’t seem like anyone on the Hawks really gave a shit – before the game even started.
Hopefully soon
I like the people we’ve chosen to bring in.
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 20, 2009 7:20 PM PST up reply actions
Hey, what?
I haven’t seen anything about this
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 21, 2009 3:35 AM PST up reply actions
Probably the most embarrassing loss I've been to
There was virtually nothing to take away in a positive way from that game. From Captain Checkdown remaining Captain Checkdown, to the play calling becoming even more predictable (hint: screen plays won’t work when the other team knows they’re coming), to the worst zone defense in the history of anything, to continued awesome special teams coached by the great Bruce DeHaven.
Time to overreact. Blow it all the hell up.
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Dec 20, 2009 7:04 PM PST reply actions
Run game looked okay.
Well, it did in the first half before we stopped running the ball.
by AtomicGarden on Dec 20, 2009 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
lousy game
Lousy game all around. Hopefully, the Ownership group will step us and make us competitive soon.
Josh Normand
I am just fucking befuddled,
The only thing that kept me from going completely berserker today, was the Blazers quality dubya over the Heat on the road..
May the FORCE be with us..
Ooooh here we go
Anyone else wonder, Why did Mora and Ruskel need to completely trash Holmgren’s offense and reinstall this bullshit offense? Hass has even said, and its pretty fucking obvious, this offense is much more simple. This is NOT a west coast offense MORA, our Seahawks are running pop warner right now. Wide receivers are running the most retarded routes, Hass is looking all over the field and doesn’t have any quick slant or out routes to throw to anymore. You took a ProBowl QB and totaly made him look like Jamarcus Russell.
FUCK this great Zone blocking system, pay attention and take notes, your offensive linemen dont get it.
Seahawk Addicts is like comedy relief for me.
FIRE JIM MORA NOW!
Why do you still go there?
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Dec 20, 2009 10:37 PM PST up reply actions
I agree, I always wonder why people are so fascinated/curious about 'dumb' comments.
I usually just ignore them. I don’t mind that they’re there, but I see no point in drawing any attention to them unless it has an effect on something.
It's too bad
it used to be a decent site. Then it got overrun by TNT and ESPN trolls.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 21, 2009 3:36 AM PST up reply actions
This is one valid criticism of Knapp.
I like his offense. I like his playcalling even more. But the biggest deficiency of his offense is not providing a more effective hot route system.
The answer to that isn’t quick slant & out routes…funny how that’s the proposed solution to a problem described as pop warner. It’s not a simple thing. But the design is focused on creating mismatches, and then using play action to capitalize on the adjustments to the mismatches. The goal of that design and the goal of maintaining a hot route lifeline, are rather disjoint. The consequence is that, given this line, this QB, this running game, you’re crippled. There’s very little recourse.
It’s not the core issue with the offense, by any stretch of the imagination. But it’s a valid criticism.
by jacobstevens on Dec 21, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
Jim Mora Urban Dictionary
Jim mora
(Verb) To take a talented and winning core of players and coach them into a miserable season.
It’s bad enough that Jim Mora jim mora’d the Seahawks defensive backs, but now he’s going to be our head coach!
Took my son to the game
His first ever, he is 14 months old. I am so happy he is too young to understand what he was seeing, if he was old enough I would have had to live my life with a son that supports (insert name of team that is not the seahawks).
the game was shameful, and hard to watch. The fans wanted to support the team, and until the early in the 4th there was still a lot of vocal support, typical of the fans I have come to love at Qwest.
I feel that we have hit a bottom. It can’t get worse than this. The team feels worse than last year, even if we won more games, and I can only hope the up that has to come comes in the near future and we don’t get stuck like the Lions or Raiders are stuck in a bog of suck.
I will still go to the last game of the year, partially because I want to see Chris Johnson (and yes, Vince Young) in person, but mainly because being a fan means supporting your team when they suck. I will still renew and my season tickets next year, and still give this organization a lot of money, I will still drive down from Vancouver 8 times a year.
But please, make me feel my effort is worth it. Players, Coaches, fucking Gatorade mouth squirters, make me feel that my effort is mirrored by you.
Hopefully my son grows up a Seahawks fan.
Every time the ball was snapped to Hass he looked scared
seriously.
His throws looked more live heaves, he didn’t have the same body language that I saw him have against the Lams, he didn’t look the same person that I saw last year.
It's much more Matt than it is the scheme.
Knapp’s playbook would look great if there was any kind of possibility Matt could complete a single 35 yard pass.
15 yard pass.
He’s ball starts getting weak past 12 yards.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 20, 2009 9:52 PM PST up reply actions
It's a problem that every time Matt throws a 12 yard pass
I think “we’re going deeeep!”
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 20, 2009 9:56 PM PST up reply actions
lol yes then I watch
Manning or any other strong armed QB and think wow players can throw a ball 20 + yards and it doesn’t have to be on Madden.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Dec 21, 2009 1:18 AM PST up reply actions
Headline of O'Neil's newest story:
“Don’t blame Hasselbeck for Sunday’s Defeat.”
Ugh.
I also see he's pinning the blame for Matt's interceptions squarely on Branch's shoulders
and excusing Matt’s performance because the team lacks a “big play threat.”
People are going to point fingers at everyone but the popular quarterback.
I don't have any numbers, but the pass offense this year feels worse than it was last year.
If that’s the case, it’s hard to pin it on the receivers because there is no way you can argue that this year’s group of WRs can possibly be worse than last year’s.
Of course, Branch is hardly blameless
The final verdict should wait for the tape analysis, but I think Branch is a prime candidate for the “quitter” list.
Hasselbeck didn’t play well, but at least he’s no quitter.
Matt made some very bad decisions today and even though Branch may share some of the blame for the interceptions
Matt isn’t blameless.
I gotcha.
I can already see Branch taking the entire brunt of the blame moving forward, though.
Something I would love to do is sit down with a non-Seahawks football fan and have them watch some of Matt’s recent games. I’d love to hear some outsider perspective of what they feel is wrong with the offense.
Millen will be the absolute last one to blame Hasselbeck or Mora for anything
I admire his loyalty to his friends, but it ruins him as an analyst.
I did this with my dad today. He doesn't follow the Hawks at all nor NFL really, but knew through 3 quarters that Hasselbeck was solely to blame.
Branch did slip on the pick to Tanard Jackson, sure. But Hass threw a load of awful balls.
All due respect to your Dad
but when you say he doesn’t follow the NFL it undermines his value as a witness. Does he have any credentials as a football expert?
I’d like to hear from an NFL analyst with no record of bias for or against the Seahawks — or any of the NFL’s popular, “Pro Bowl” players (you know, the ones who do all the commercials).
It always bugs me that they even bother to ask Lou Holtz who he thinks is going to win the
Notre Dame game, because he picks them every time! What’s the point in being an analyst if you can’t be objective.
Of course this isn’t just for sports, I was reading an article in the WSJ the other day about some guy who was fired/resigned for giving a ‘sell order’ on a stock because the ratings companies have to be buddy buddy with large corporations. Turns out he was the right and the stock tanked big time, but over 80% of analyst opinions are buy/hold because of the relationship they have with the companies. Sort of like the media and the team, why would you bash Hasselbeck if you knew you probably had to interview him for the next few years? If we draft his ‘heir apparent’, I think it will be safer for them to say, Hasselbeck is going downhill, but for now, it doesn’t seem like we have a replacement lined up.
I guess my sentence was poorly constructed
I didn’t mean I wanted to hear from the players who do the commercials. I wanted to hear from someone who isn’t biased in favor of a player just because he’s seen those commercials.
I'm not really curious about an unbiased NFL analysts opinion because I think most would agree Matt isn't very good anymore.
I want to know if there’s a disconnect between Seahawks fans and non-Seahawks NFL fans.
Take Primetime's word
Pretty much everyone who is anyone outside Seattle knows this. Just pay attention and try not to discredit them simply for being national media. Sometimes the truth is that obvious.
I don't know
Falling down is a cardinal sin for a receiver but he was double covered, Hasselbeck never should have thrown that ball regardless of Branch falling. And the other pick Branch was way overthrown.
Well if these are Matt's last two games, and I think they are...
I hope he tears shit up instead of metaphorically limping his way out the door. I will always have nothing but fond memories of the best QB the Seahawks’ franchise has ever had.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
Unfortunately, I disagree.
Because I want him gone, not retained because the “oline came together” or some other nonsense.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.
by Wayward Llama on Dec 21, 2009 3:39 AM PST up reply actions
The Apathy
When they were at their best the 03-07 Seahawks were a technical masterpiece. They were like the old white-haired long-bearded master in an awesomely bad kung-fu movie. What they lacked in high flying kicks and power punches, they made up for with a quick finger flick to the toe that rendered their opponents ineffective.
When Mora replaced Holmgren, I figured that the offense would no longer look like it was on preformed rails. I expected the lack of precision would be made up for by some physical superiority. I don’t see it. I would not expect a Mora team to beat a Holmgren team in a game of chess. But I did not expect for a Holmgren team to look like they could beat the stuffing out of a Mora team in a game of Simpson’s pot helmet charge.
I cheer for Iowa in college. They run like, six plays. Their plan for victory is that for sixty minutes, they will win the individual matchups and eventually wear their opponents down to a point where fancy x’s and o’s are meaningless. I thought the Seahawks would look like a pro version of that.
I’m not calling the players soft or criticizing their effort. They are professionals. They don’t seem to be playing for these coaches. If Mora thinks Seattle has a soft reputation, maybe his preparation is the problem. Those Holmgren teams may have had a soft reputation, but they weren’t pushed around by the Falcons.
I Honestly Did
That and the first three quarters of the Ravens comeback debacle are the two games I missed since we got NFL Ticket back in aught three. I saw maybe five plays of that Atlanta game. Neither team played much defense right?
by Michael Scott on Dec 21, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Not sure I cared
There was nothing to play for and they took the offensive starters out…
FIRE JIM MORA NOW!
by SSreporters on Dec 21, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
That was a great performance
If by ‘great performance’ you mean ‘complete abortion’.
I’d suggest a new coach and system but this team’s depth on both sides of the ball is probably its biggest problem.
I humbly suggest the new GM load up on 2nd-4th round draft picks (maybe even trade the inevitable top 10 pick down for extra picks in the late 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounds) and stockpile all the talent they can everywhere they can.
Disagree.
I think this team has a whole lot of “maybe’s” and not a lot of “sure things”. Tapp, Wilson, Jackson, Hawthorne, Sims, Spencer, Locklear, Willis, Butler, Schmitt, Forsett, Teel, Ryan… all players that are probably good enough to keep but not “for sure”.
I’d argue that, rather than bring in a host more “maybe’s” – which usually are the result of 3rd/4th rounders – we keep those big top three picks and bring in some serious talent. This team desperately needs a starting calibre QB, an LT, and a significant pass-rushing force on the DL, three things that could probably be obtained with those first three picks.
If not, there is free agency as well.
Being in the 1st-15th pick overall range is dangerous.
It’s the top first round picks we need to avoid. Aaron Curry was hailed as being the safest pick of the draft for how talented he was and now is on the verge of being a bust. This would be fine (for the most part) if not for the financial hit a franchise takes for a top 10 draft pick. Sure talent for the price is assured in the 2nd-4th round. Part of the reason why teams like Detroit and Oakland stay bad from year to year is because they get stuck paying ridiculous prices for over-hyped players who haven’t even touched an NFL field.
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 20, 2009 11:57 PM PST up reply actions
OK, kidding right?
Curry’s “on the verge of being a bust”. AFTER FOURTEEN GAMES? Huh, I guess every single draft pick that doesn’t become top ten at his position within a season is a bust.
There is nothing “sure” about talent in the 2nd-4th rounds, no matter what the cost. If the player doesn’t turn out, they take up a roster spot, they take up coaching time, and yes, they cost money.
The reason Detroit and Oakland stay bad is because they’re SHITTY DRAFTERS. Indy got a high pick in Peyton Manning, and then one the next in Edgerrin James, did that make them shitty? Er, no. Your logic is ridiculous, man.
Never said he was a bust.
It is not uncommon for first-round pick linebackers to make the pro bowl their rookie season and Aaron hasn’t even come close. This is by no means a standard, but I think it’s safe to say that a fair number of us expected something close to this. If he has another season similar to this one, I think calling him a bust wouldn’t be too inaccurate.
Saying nothing is sure about 2nd-4th rounds should speak volumes to the security of the 1st round. What often happens when players are hyped SO much is that they are paid for their potential rather than the security they provide.
As far as being shitty drafters go, yeah, those franchises typically aren’t good, but the nature of the draft is one of great uncertainty; everything is a calculated risk that can easily go one way or the other. It is very plausible that, even though you made the right choice at the time, your man simply didn’t turn out to be the player you had hoped him to be. If this happens several years in a row in the first round, it can easily turn in to lots of money spent towards little production. Ask Chris Spencer, Lawrence Jackson, etc. (Also, let’s not point out an obviously successful draft pick and say that all top picks turn out to be arguably the greatest quarterback ever. One outstanding instance COULD easily be the exception to the rule.)
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 21, 2009 3:22 AM PST up reply actions
That's not common at all.
Don’t pass statements off like that as facts.
Depends on your definition of uncommon.
1 LB every other year maybe?
As for statements that are passed off as fact, it seems like a judgment call to me. Lots of comments are like that.
Fear’s comment below
All of Curry’s problems this year stem from inexperience.
Seems like it’s made as fact, but it’s certainly a judgment call. Is he over pursuing because of inexperience or is it because his instincts are wrong and he’s not good at sniffing out plays? Hard to tell.
Just my thoughts.
True enough, nice catch.
Everything I’ve seen of his problems have stemmed from inexperience. How about that? To elaborate, when I specifically watch him during a game, I frequently see him doing things like running straight into a blocker. There’s no reason for this, he’s just taking himself out of the play. There’s no physical problem there, that’s mental. Or he’ll bite on a play, thinking run instead of pass. He hasn’t shown an inability to follow people, he isn’t being run around or blocked out of plays. Rather, he’s just taking himself out of plays with poor decisions. That’s what I’ve seen. And
I know you weren’t arguing with me per se, but I figured I should back up what I said with some evidence.
My bad.
I have a bad habit of doing that. I guess I’d back that up by saying that it’s easier for a rookie linebacker to make plays in spite of having a general lack of experience in relation to other positions. In my opinion, that part of the game is more easily transferred from college to the NFL.
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 21, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
It's possible
but I’d argue that it heavily depends on schemes and the players around him. If a LB has a great DL in front of him, he can make lots of flashy sacks that make him look good because the DL is opening up caverns for him to run through. That still requires some athletic ability, but it doesn’t require a very smart player to run through a big hole. Or there’s players like Patrick Willis who get oodles and oodles of tackles on a bad team because they are playing a position that is perfect for getting tackles on players that have already busted a play open. Now, Willis has improved and is a pretty good player. But his rookie year he had lots of tackles simply because he was a ILB and his team sucked. Once again, it still requires some athletic ability but it doesn’t require too much smarts to go after the ball carrier who just ran over your DL or DBs.
Curry hasn't played as many snaps as many of the players on this list, as
he’s often come out on passing downs and missed time due to injury or ineffectiveness. Regarless, his numbers stack up pretty well with the other rookie LBs. They’re not the best, but certainly not bad and nowhere near how I’d expect a player suspected of ‘busting’ playing.
This.
All of Curry's problems this year stem from inexperience.
He’s just making dumb mistakes. He’s a rookie. I’m not worried in the slightest. Now if he’s still making these mistakes 4 years from now, he’s a bust. But he’s showing too much talent to be even remotely called a bust.
Also: Detroit drafted a WR in the first round for 4 years in a row. WR. And I mean high first rounds too. Millen was terrible. Oakland sucks because Al Davis is insane. But your right, the contracts sure as hell don’t help.
Yes, but Curry is arguably playing poorer this year than many rookie LBs drafted after him
…who also could make the same “inexperience” and “learning NFL” and “hitting the wall” excuses. While it might make sense from a “doing the best thing for the team to win” point of view, removing Curry from 3rd down duties is a yellow flag. Curry has the size, speed, power, etc. to be great, and I think he will be a starter in this league for a long time, but it is not a sure thing he will be a multi-year pro-bowler, which is what most fans are expecting from a 1st round pick. There is a decent chance things will start to “click” for him as he gains experience and the game slows down, but there is a chance they won’t as well. The build up for Curry (e.g. “best LB talent of the decade”), and his contract made people expect a Patrick Willis-like pro-bowl, feared by opponents, dominating season right out of the gate.
Prior to Sunday’s game (where Curry was injured) — Curry’s stats are good considering he is in for 66% of the plays of most of the others:
Player…………………Total Tackles……..Solo Tackles………AST……PD…..SACK……FF…INT
Aaron Curry……………..60……………………….53……………….7………6……….2………..2…..0
Clay Matthews………….40……………………….29……………….11……..6………8………..1…..0
Brian Orakpo……………45……………………….33……………….12……..2………11……….1…..0
Brian Cushing…………..112……………………..70……………….42……..9………2.5………2…..3
James Laurinaitis………104…………………….91………………..13……..3……….1………..1….2
Rey Maualuga…………..55………………………33………………..22……..2……….1………..4….0
Given the state of the team, and the 20/20 of hindsight, it now looks as if Crabtree, Freeman, Oher or other more ‘risky’ talents/positions might have been a wiser choice for our #4 pick, as linebackers seem to be a commodity in the league. Curry was the favorite for defensive ROY going into the season, and he is now far behind Orakpo, Cushing, Matthews, etc. Perhaps it is the scheme, and he is being used wrong, and should be rushing the passer more, but he looks lost in coverage, confused, and often is out of position, out of his gap, taking bad angles, and biting on fakes. Hopefully with a full training camp under his belt, and a good work ethic (e.g. lots of film study), he will come into his own next year.
I specifically said he's playing poorly
and never once said he was going to be a future pro bowler (though I believe he has a very good shot at it down the road). I simply said he needs to be given more time before we can call him a bust in response to this:
Aaron Curry was hailed as being the safest pick of the draft for how talented he was and now is on the verge of being a bust..
Personally I'd rather trade up
The Hawks have good depth most places, but simply lack franchise cornerstones.
How'd the interior line play today?
Most curious about the Unger / Spencer swap.
I didn’t watch the game, nor do I plan to. I can’t justify that many hours to watch what obviously was very bad football.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
They played well from what I saw
I made it a point to focus on the interior line play as I was watching, but inevitably my eyes would drift away every few plays. Their double-team blocks were pretty forceful, and they got downfield off of those blocks pretty well.
I think I watched them on about 20% of the offensive plays. If those plays were indicative of the entire game (and may very well not be), they did well. Not dominant, but clearly above average.
by Michael Scott on Dec 21, 2009 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
Trying to figure out if Unger is going to stick at center
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
Based on the sample size
The interior line was better with the switch. Unger does everything that we could hope a rookie center would do, and the guards, especially Spencer seemed to play with more power.
I don’t want to overstate how they played. It was not earth-moving, but it was good, especially considering they just switched.
by Michael Scott on Dec 21, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
Also - the sample being Tampa Bay
Yeah… not really a fearsome pass rush the likes of which humanity has never seen.
Unger looked bad on a number of plays early on
but I have to admit I mentally checked out a few minutes into the second half so I can’t say much beyond that.
I only stayed with it until the second break, it was really hard to watch.
Mora seemed detached (understandable), half-heartedly trotting out cliches with a weird fake smile on his face. I didn’t envy him or Silvi, I’m sure that was the last thing either wanted to do that night.
by waldo rojas on Dec 21, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
I missed this last night, but it seems like Mora took a shot at Ruskell
for not signing a backup longsnapper. Link.
Has there ever been a team that had two longsnappers on the active roster? Does that make any sense? Most teams would just have a guy already on the roster work on being an emergency backup. It didn’t seem like the Hawks were prepared for Hauser going down, which seems more like the fault of the coaching staff than the ex-GM.
At any rate, another example of Mora using the podium to shift blame around.
Mora's on fire?
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Dec 21, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think he is very good at his job, but setting him on fire him seems excessive.
by waldo rojas on Dec 21, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
You all failed at math, didn't you? ;-)
FIRE JIM MORA NOW!
by SSreporters on Dec 21, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
So where do the Hawks go from here?
QB – restructure matt’s last year; start him in 2010; replace with drafted QB when necessary.
DT – restructure Cole, bench him; draft/sign above average DT; move Mebane back to 3-tech
LB – trade/cut Leroy hill, replace with Hawthorne (too much money in LBs)
S – cut Grant, draft above average safety; fire secondary coach, change back to man coverage scheme, re-sign Lucas on the cheap
WR – resign Burly, trade Housh to contender while he’s worth something, cut Branch, draft high potential guy in 3rd/4th round
DE – cut or restructure Kerney, start Tapp, give Jackson one more year
OL – move Locklear to RT, let Willis walk, draft OT in 1st/2nd round
RB – cut Jones, draft/sign feature back to complement Forsett
Thoughts?
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
my thoughts
Agree with everything besides WR and RB.
WR – woudln’t trade Housh. If we drafted a WR in the first two rounds I’d likely let Burly walk and cut Branch.
RB – if we don’t draft a RB to replace Jones I’d keep him.
by Hancock.Brett on Dec 21, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Cut Cole. Don't bother giving him another year.
FIRE JIM MORA NOW!
by SSreporters on Dec 21, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
I think he's got value off the bench on obvious rushing downs (if there's such a thing)
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Dec 21, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
I have some thoughts
QB – I never want to see Hasselbeck play again.
DT – Why is Colin Cole going to take less money?
LB – Hill is signed to a team friendly contract. I’m ok with trading him for something of equal or near equal value but cutting him would serve no purpose.
S – Why are you cutting Grant? Why fire the secondary coach, is he underacheiving? Firing the secondary coach isn’t going to change the schemes.
WR – Why do you want to bring back Burly? He’s lacksadasical in his approach and has done nothing but underacheive since coming here.
DE- You want to jettison a first round pick whos shown improvement after his third year when he’s still cheap?
RB – What purpose does cutting Jones serve?
Oh, I guess I didn't read Andron's plan fully.
I agree, keep Lojack and Jones. Don’t cut Grant unless there’s another option in place.
Cole will take less money because he’ll be cut and no team would sign him?
Depth?
I agree, I’d rather just cut him, but if you want a 4th DT to be big and fat, might as well keep him since no one likes to eat guaranteed money. Especially if you don’t think you will compete next year anyways.
There's no long-term committment to Cole.
The way I understood his contract, it was $6M guanteed, but $2.5 of that was his 1st year salary and $1M was a roster bonus. That leaves a $2.5M bonus to prorate. Given that his salary next year is scheduled to be $3.25, cutting him even after one year would clear over $1M of space ($3.25M – $2M remaining bonus) It’s a Mike Wahle-esque contract: pays him well if he stays a starter, but easy to shed if he doesn’t work out.
in retrospect, that’s one of the few things I liked about Ruskell. He may have tossed out FA money like candy, but at least the deals were structured in a way to be flexible.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
Agreed about the Ruskell structuring contracts.
As for cutting him, sure it’s $2.5 M of loss, but what would we have to replace him? Just give Bryant more PT (which I still do not understand why we’re not doing)? He’s supposedly injury prone. It depends on who we draft though. If we get a DT in the first two rounds, I’d so go ahead and cut him without a second thought.
Totally agree.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Dec 21, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
I think he's got value as a rushing down DT
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Dec 21, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
No he doesn't.
Cole gets blown back on so many rushing plays.
FIRE JIM MORA NOW!
by SSreporters on Dec 21, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
It seems there's a rookie safety named Jairus Byrd from Oregon
who’s playing well. How did we miss him?
Your list looks fine to me, I’m not sure if I’d necessarily draft an OT in the first two rounds since I don’t like to pigeon-hole my plans.
What would be fun though is to draft two OTs in the first two rounds, to see if fans would blame Hasselbeck instead of the o-line. Downside would be another bad year, upside would be Jake Locker?
Yeah, but we were looking at safeties hard (we as in FG)
and he’s from Oregon. It seems like it would have been on the discussion board for some of us (FG, not Seahawks).
Nice, I must've forgot.
It’s weird how much time we can spend analyzing guys for the draft and have a few slip through the crack anyways.
Oh my bad, I thought they moved him to 1-tech
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
Having been one of Mora's longer-lasting supporters
I’m pretty exasperated, too. He can still redeem himself. Not completely, this year. Can redeem himself, but there’s no defending of him.
This is the coach that wanted the Huskies job
Wonder how that would’ve turned out….
Throwing college players under the bus would’ve been intriguing to watch.
FIRE JIM MORA NOW!
another two cents
First thing, accept the fact that the Seahawks are in full re-build mode. Like many fans, I was completely mistaken about this year’s prospects. Holding on to Kearney, Hass, W. Jones – one last push for the big show. I misplaced my confidence in Ruskell and Mora, and Mora should follow Ruskell out the door. He has had more than enough opportunity to succeed, with far fewer excuses than last year.
Anyway, on to speculative details:
QB: John has suggested with supporting detail the notion of bringing Jason Campbell here. Perhaps Zorn can come along in his old capacity as QB coach, as he will likely be looking for friendlier environs. Anyway, Hass should be done. Even if Seattle has the opportunity to draft the best QB in the class next year, the risk is too high, especially of the fundamentals are not in place – i.e. an offensive line. Therefore, a relatively cheap QB early in his career might be a better way to go.
RB: Don’t waste a high draft pick (4th and higher) on an RB, again, for the same reason. McFadden has wicked skills but is not the answer alone. Someone like Chester Taylor might be a bargain to complement Forsett. Depending on the financials, J Jones can go, cut or traded, or he can stay and compete for playing time.
Draft position: Seattle should be picking in the 6 or 7 spot it appears, and if Denver doesn’t make the playoffs, somewhere in the teens or 20s in the first round. They will also have a high 2nd and 4th round pick (they traded away their 3rd). With those top 4 picks, I would suggest some combination of the following:
1) Eric Berry, if at all possible. I see him ranked in the top 5, so may not be available, but given the re-build underway, he would be an immediate impact player in the secondary next year, and for many years to come. Seattle might have a chance at Berry, because if the Raiders pick before (or even after ) Seattle, sure is God made little girls he will take Taylor Mays. Davis loves the physical freaks, and Mays qualifies.
2) the best OT/DE/DT available
3) the best OT/DE/DT/CB available
4) the best OG/DE/DT/CB available.
The Seahawks have some flexibility at the LB and WR position, and this assumes they address the QB and RB position in free agency. They also may be able to shore up the offensive and defensive lines in FA, but I don’t know any big-time talent that will be on the market.
The good thing about this position is that the Seahawks can take a little longer view of things, as opposed to thinking they were playing for the SB this year, like many of us thought. Signing TJ was part of that impulse – more of a quick-fix than fundamentally building the roster, with the idea that it was more important to win now than in the coming years.
The new GM will have more flexibility, more time to bring about a winning franchise. I sure hope he starts with a new HC.
Your plan is sound
I’m just not a fan of signing Jason Campbell. I’d much rather draft a top tier QB and take on the risk of being a bust. You know what you’re getting in Campbell, and the ceiling doesn’t seem very high.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
I'd say the Raiders are already set at S.
This Mays-good 40-time/Al Davis stuff is all media-created crap. He has Branch, Mitchell (2nd rounder last year I think), and Huff (previous 1st rounder). That team needs other things besides S and even if Al is insane, he’s got to know he has enough in the secondary if they got rid of Gibril Wilson, even if he was expensive.
This.
Al's insanity is also largely focused on the offense.
He’s convinced he can re-create the SB team he had in the 90’s with the deep throw. That’s why he got Russel and Bay. Not sure what he thinks he needs now, but I get the feeling it’ll be something on the offense in the 1st round.
How did all of our good players start sucking at the same time?
I’ve been thinking about what has happened to the team and as I go down the list player by player I start to wonder how so many of them have just become bad this year.
The biggest example obviously is Matt. Wow, he has really cratered this year, especially in the last month. But how do you explain Seneca? He was once an adequate backup to a good starter. Now he’s not a viable backup to an atroicous starter.
Branch: big knock on him was that he’s injury prone. But when he was on the field he was fiery and made some big plays. Now he’s just terrible in every facet of the game.
Lofa: 3 straight probowls to start his career, followed by a season where he forgot how to tackle, little to no improvement this year and now out with an injury.
Trufant: was one of the better corners in the NFC a couple years ago. Now he’s among the worst.
Leroy Hill. Was supposed to be on the cusp of a probowl. The silent member of the best lb corp in the league. And a hell of a pass rusher. What does he have, 1 sack?
Kerney: Cratered.
Tapp: little to no development after promising signs
Lo Jack: little to no development after promising signs
Locklear: was a good offensive lineman. Now a bad one (maybe he’s just playing out of position though).
One obvious answer is the coach and his staff. But looking a little deeper at the grim lack of talent, the Seahawks are shaping up to be the worst team in the NFL in 2010. I am not optimistic that a single above mentioned player will ever be in a probowl discussion again.
I know, that's the depressing part.
Half of it I attribute to age – Hass, Walt, Kerney, etc were all nearing the end, and the team rolled the dice thinking the window was still open and tried to squeeze every last drop.
The other half I attribute to Ruskell’s conservative draft philosophy. Players like Tapp, Jackson, Hill, Wilson, etc were picked to have specific roles. The idea being they could be solid contributors quickly. Low ceiling but high floor. When they’re asked to complement an established core, their strengths shine through. but when the core crumbles and they have to carry the load, they don’t have the well-rounded game or elite physical skills to be cornerstone players themselves.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
I think with Tapp's recent performances he's a goner
But hopefully we can rape Denver again and get Dumervil.
FIRE JIM MORA NOW!
Unless we switch to a 3-4
Hey! Does anyone think that could work?
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
Tough to put the heater on the bench.
Plus, whether it’s a good fit or not, we might want to start building towards it. Off the top of my head, I can’t remember the last team with a 4-3 scheme to win the big one. The Rams maybe?
by DrunkAmerican on Dec 21, 2009 9:02 PM PST up reply actions
Also Colts in '07
Bucs in ’03, Ravens in ’02, Rams, Broncos before that, Packers before that, etc ….
Sorry, my post was just a lame attempt at humor – riffing on the 3-4 discussion that always seems to pop up. Personally, I have no preference for one over the other. I don’t think there’s anything inherently better in one front vs. the other. IMO, it’s all about having a plan, sticking to it, and doing a good job of identifying players that fit whatever scheme you try and run. If anything, I’d say the 4-3 is better at this point because lots of teams are trying to copy the 3-4 because of the Pats & Steelers success, so it means good 4-3 players may be undervalued.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
I agree.
If anything, I’d say the 4-3 is better at this point because lots of teams are trying to copy the 3-4 because of the Pats & Steelers success, so it means good 4-3 players may be undervalued.
That’s the primary reason why I’d prefer not to go to a 3-4. Not because one is better than the other, but simply because there’s probably more talent to be found for the 4-3 that fits it. But really, it’s about getting the players the scheme needs to work and sticking with it.
Seriously
Took my girlfriend to the game…Seahawks didn’t even seem like they were trying. Pathetic. I have never seen the Seahawks so incompetent. I love the Seahawks…but I feel like they quit on me (and everyone else) last Sunday.
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