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Around SBN: Africa Cup Of Nations Semifinal: Black Stars Ripe For Upset?

Mike Holmgren is the Man in Cleveland

Well, Cleveland is where I expected the Big Show to land, so I see this as less news than confirmation. I wish Mike Holmgren nothing but success. He failed as a general manager his first go round, but was, perhaps, overwhelmed with coaching and running the franchise. I think that's unlikely though. I think it is much more likely that Holmgren has an eye for offensive talent, no eye for defensive talent, a maddening sense of loyalty that blinds his judgment, and the kind of pride and self confidence to lead a franchise towards ruin if things break badly.

But that will wait. Today, Holmgren inherits a deceptively talented Browns offense and defense and should benefit immensely from the halo effect of a rising franchise. If you're out there boys and girls, remember to buy low, and take credit for the inevitable revival. Fans seem categorically opposed to rating the individual moves of an executive, and when Cleveland rebounds from a terrible season, Holmgren will surely be credited for...whatever.

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First play run next season

Fullback draw with (Cleveland Browns Fullback).

Seriously though I wish Holmgren the best.

FIRE JIM MORA NOW!

by SSreporters on Dec 21, 2009 5:18 PM PST reply actions  

Lol

Well said, amigo
And I wish Mike the best

by rex92 on Dec 22, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Good luck.

And, if you need a veteran QB to help Brady Quinn prepare and mature, we have one available for cheap— it’ll only cost you a 7th rounder, or even a simple plate of nachos.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 21, 2009 5:28 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Best of luck Mike

We all chipped in on a house warming gift and got you a Matt Hasselbeck. Enjoy!

by Nate Dogg on Dec 21, 2009 5:33 PM PST reply actions  

eric decosta

My pick still, unless someone throws their hat in.

by yeshneel7 on Dec 21, 2009 5:42 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Cardinals are only good because of Whisenhunt

and a lot of failure resulting in high draft picks. I’m skeptical of getting anybody from the cardinals. Too bad we didn’t just go after Whisenhunt last year.

by B.B.Finnegan on Dec 21, 2009 5:56 PM PST reply actions  

Good luck Holmgren

If you’re successful, you can get back at the Steelers every year. I will cheer for this.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Dec 21, 2009 6:25 PM PST reply actions  

I think one of the most interesting things to watch

Will be if he installs his classic WCO, and just how well it fares against those 3-4’s. He’s moving into a division with 2 tough ones. Seeing as how LeBeau developed the zone blitz mainly to disrupt short timing-based pass attacks like the WCO … this should be a battle royale of old-school philosophies.

"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg

by jteckmann on Dec 21, 2009 11:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I would assume he'll install his offense.

He’s Mike “Big Show” Holmgren. He sure isn’t instituting a spread.

So yes, it will be pretty interesting to watch it go against good teams in Cincy and Pitt, especially the 3-4 in Pitt.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Dec 22, 2009 12:54 AM PST up reply actions  

He's not HC yet.

Obviously, I assume he’ll bring in an offensive staff from his tree, but maybe it will be somebody who brings some new wrinkles.

I’m curious to see just how flexible he can be and how he fills out the organization (after all, most of his Seattle assistants are old/retired – he’s going to have to find new blood eventually) I’m just glad it’s an experiment I can watch unfold from afar, and not in our own FO.

"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg

by jteckmann on Dec 22, 2009 8:17 AM PST up reply actions  

I completely agree with you

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Dec 22, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Heh, already diminishing Holmgren's success before it happens?

I think he’ll have his hands full. Unlike his turn in Seattle, he doesn’t have a young, promising backup on a former team to trade for. If he somehow transforms one of Anderson or Quinn into a legitimate franchise QB, or finds one through other means, that would be pretty impressive. And without accomplishing that, I think he’ll fail. Without Hasselbeck or Favre, would he have succeeded in Green Bay or Seattle? I don’t think he would have.

I wish him luck in Cleveland. He’ll need it. Godspeed Big Show.

by kearly on Dec 21, 2009 7:18 PM PST reply actions  

Heh, already embellishing his success before it happens?

If Quinn turns out to be what he is supposed to be it’ll be because Holmgren transforms him?

by Nate Dogg on Dec 21, 2009 7:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Quinn is pretty terrible, and well into his NFL career.

Its perhaps not too late to save him, but he’s essentially Cleveland’s Alex Smith. And I don’t think Holmgren will.

by kearly on Dec 22, 2009 12:26 AM PST up reply actions  

I think Quinn will be fine. Certainly adequate in a short-passing game style offense.

There hopefully will be little doubt CLE passes on one of (our) top QBs in the first round. After all, Holmgren can install a coach and system that fits Quinn and have yet another ‘fixed QB’ under his name.

This.

by Misfit74 on Dec 22, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm just saying that in the event Holmgren does fix Quinn

It shouldn’t be considered a slam dunk or a “it would have happened anyway” type of thing. Quinn is on the ropes of his career as a serious franchise QB prospect and looks very unlikely to turn things around at this point without a serious intervention of some kind. Holmgren has twice before fixed high draft pick QB’s who initially struggled (Favre, Young), but I’m skeptical he’d be able to do it with Quinn. If he does, it will be a challenge and shouldn’t be discounted.

by kearly on Dec 22, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions  

How is a GM going to fix Quinn?

He helped Favre and Young because he was the coach. I really don’t think, as the GM, he’s going to be in the practice huddle helping the players with their mechanics.

by B.B.Finnegan on Dec 23, 2009 7:52 AM PST up reply actions  

I guess I'm working under a dubious assumption

that Holmgren would at least mentor or advise his QB’s, even if he’s not a HC. GM’s do almost nothing during the season, so its not unthinkable. But it is an assumption, on my part.

by kearly on Dec 23, 2009 8:40 PM PST up reply actions  

It shouldn't be discounted but it shouldn't automatically be credited to Holmgren either.

And I agree with what B.B. said, Holmgren isn’t the coach. Thats one of the big reasons I didn’t want him as a GM, what would Hasselbeck have become if Holmgren was just the guy that traded for him and not the guy that coached him as well?

by Nate Dogg on Dec 23, 2009 8:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Yup, 3rd season in the league

He’s looked awful and the stats look just as bad. To put it in perspective, he’s been substantially worse than Hasselbeck and Hasselbeck is having a brutal year. At least he’s not the catastrophe that Anderson has been though (only Jamarcus Russell has been worse in DYAR/Attempt).

by kearly on Dec 22, 2009 11:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe Will Lewis

Director of Pro Personnel. He came to the FO with Holmy. Honestly, I have no idea if that’d be a big loss, if Lewis is good at his job, or what the “Director of Pro Personnel” even does.

Other than that, I think most of the FO staff that Holmgren had here have already been raided – they’re all now in SanFran, TEN and GB. .

"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg

by jteckmann on Dec 21, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Good Luck Mike,

and good riddance to the Holmgren for GM Media Circus. Holmgren embarrassed himself and soiled his legacy a bit by cavorting with Softy on KJR over recent weeks. I am so glad that pathetic public campaign for fan support is finally over.

I wanted Mike back, but mostly for irrational sentimental reasons. He was a Great coach, but now he is an inexperienced rookie President who may or may not be a good fit for that job.

One of the best arguments I’ve heard lately for not bringing back Holmgren to Seattle was this: good GMs don’t move to a new team alone; they bring their people with them. Holmgren brought his guys from Green Bay in 1998 and Ruskell brought his guys in 2004. Who does Holmgren have to bring with him now? His cohort is getting pretty old. The young rising stars of NFL personnel operations are younger guys who have never worked with Holmgren and have their loyalties with others.

I’m not sure why the Seahawks need a President, but I think we all agree they need to straighten out their personnel operation. We need a GM who comes with young smart scouts guys in tow. Guys that have been scouting every day of the past four years, not guys who have spent their time riding a motorcycle around the desert and debating whether to work or retire.

"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank

by Stevo's on Dec 22, 2009 9:39 AM PST reply actions  

Going on a radio show doesn't tarnish any legacy he's built for himself.

I’m not sure this is what happened, but if talking to Seattle leveraged his situation (offer) with CLE to better his position, I say more power to him i.e.: so what? At his age I’m glad he’s getting an opportunity with a team and it’s not ours. I much prefer a hungry candidate who hasn’t yet begun to establish a ‘legacy’ or maybe even a name for himself at the GM level. GMs have to be hard-working and driven. Holmgren at this stage of his life can just coast on his reputation and delegate if he wants to. I’ll be silently rooting for his success in CLE to some degree, unless he starts plundering our good players (all 3 of them). ;)

This.

by Misfit74 on Dec 22, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions  

The only person that ever tarnished his Seattle legacy on a radio show was Josh Brown.

From fan favorite to mockery.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 22, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

He was on his way to one, without a doubt.

before he left for a shitty team in a state where the taxes basically neutralized the gain in salary that was the difference between the contracts…

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 22, 2009 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I mostly agree with you

but I also heard the last interview he did on KJR on Friday afternoon when he said the Seahawks “had never called him.” Then within 24 hours the story came out that the Seahawks had offered him total control of football ops with a salary commensurate to Parcells’. Pu-leeze, that entire negotiation did not happen in the space of a few hours. Obviously, Holmgren’s agent had been in contact and working with the Seahawks, and Holmgren was playing us. It just left a bad taste in my mouth.

"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank

by Stevo's on Dec 22, 2009 10:57 AM PST reply actions  

damn reply button.

"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank

by Stevo's on Dec 22, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Holmgren's one of those guys who makes you like him

even when he’s lying through his teeth.

His “kind old grampa” public persona doesn’t jibe with other stories we’ve heard about his volcanic temper and colossal ego. But he usually got away with it. His remarks never received the kind of cynical scrutiny that Mora’s have.

by Mr Fish on Dec 22, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

He Favre'd us.

Allen really went out on a limb by keeping him in ’05 (a time when he was close to wearing out his welcome here). Then the SB run happened and all was forgiven. But how did Holmy repay Allen? He immediately went into his “burnout” mode. Took his extended va-cay every offseason, then came back grumbling about the moves that took place and started taking his shots at Ruskell. He starting playing the retirement card, and really put the team in a bind. There were legitimate questions about whether he would be back after the ’06 & ’07 seasons. Then he got in a huff because the FO started putting together a contingency plan for the retirement drama he had created.

He was adamant about taking his year off, then acted shocked that the team didn’t keep his seat warm for him and decided to move in a different direction. He goes on the radio and creates a rush deadline for getting a deal done, all while his agent is probably on the phone leveraging Cleveland for more money.

But no one in the Seattle media would dare call him out on any of it. They fell for it all hook, line and sinker and are up in arms because Allen didn’t toss him the keys to the franchise, no questions asked.

"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg

by jteckmann on Dec 23, 2009 1:12 AM PST reply actions  

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