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Around SBN: NFL Week One: Previews and Predictions for all 15 games

Seahawks General Manager Tim Ruskell Expected to Resign

Danny O'Neil is reporting that Tim Ruskell is expected to announce his resignation Thursday morning.

This line struck me:

Ruskell sought a resolution to his future, seeking an extension or some type of answer in recent months.

This might be Ruskell's attempt to control his own exit, but I assume he did not willingly resign with five games left in the season.

Losing Ruskell does not bother me much. If it was my decision to make, I would consider doing the same thing. I do not think Ruskell deserves to be fired, and Ruskell is not being fired. He's made some shrewd moves and I hope whoever takes over builds the offense this defense needs to shine.

In business, one must be ruthless. Whether Ruskell could build an offense or not, it was never known to be his strength. Hiring an offensive specialist, just as Ruskell was hired as a defensive specialist, is a practical, considered maneuver.

Rehiring Mike Holmgren because of regrets and familiarity is not. I am not against rehiring Holmgren if he can prove he's the best candidate, but let him prove he's the best candidate. Reflexively rehiring Holmgren without considering all candidates is bad business.

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Maybe this is best for the team now

But I’ll never forget being at the NFC title game with Matthew on the stage.

Thanks for the memories, Tim. You helped build the greatest moment of my adult sports fan life. I wish nothing but the best for you.

by Garces on Dec 3, 2009 12:15 AM PST reply actions  

Well then

I really hope he was let go for the right reasons and not the wrong ones.

And I really hope we don’t end up with a Bavasi. GMs can single handidly make or destroy franchises, and a Bavasi type could destroy any chance of us contending in the next 6 years. That is what scares me the most.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 12:15 AM PST reply actions  

This makes me think...

Would it be beneficial to get a GM with an awareness of the statistical analysis at FO, or is scouting above and beyond any need for stats in the NFL at this point? Basically, would a GM like that give us any kind of edge?

Chad Brown for the Ring of Honor!

by Big Seahawk Loser on Dec 3, 2009 11:00 AM PST up reply actions  

I think they would

Not as much as in baseball though, because football is harder to quantify in stats since it’s such a fluid process on the field.

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 3, 2009 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

that would signal a new philosophy

I would imagine a GM that was well versed in that sort of thing would value positional value a lot more then others. We wouldn’t have drafted Aaron Curry at 4 is basically what I’m trying to say.

by Hancock.Brett on Dec 3, 2009 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

You can't say that without knowing the philosophy though, you're trying to fit what you

think is the philosophy with what you think we should have done.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by whiskey chainsaw on Dec 3, 2009 1:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know what to make of Ruskell's philosophy

We have a lot of money and draft picks invested in the LB and WR units, just a quick look at GMs around the league will tell you that isn’t a shared philosophy.

by Hancock.Brett on Dec 3, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Understood...

however you were speaking on the drafting of Curry, not the LB and WR cores.

A lot of people and philosophies would still lead to the conclusion that you draft Aaron Curry at 4th. You dismissed it as solely a Ruskell thing, which I don’t agree with is all.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by whiskey chainsaw on Dec 3, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Heck, how many LB's are

considered good enough to be chosen first overall over a QB, even though everyone knows he won’t be taken. The fact that he was even in the discussion (no matter how quickly dismissed from it) spoke volumes.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

It could go several directions.

It could mean that Curry was best LB prospect in a long time. It could mean that most ‘experts’ were way off in their assessment of him. Or it could mean that the draft in general was incredibly weak. Or it could mean something else.

Just because someone takes Josh Fields (relief pitcher) with the a mid to late first round pick, and other GMs don’t think it was a bad move, doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a bad move.

by LantermanC on Dec 3, 2009 2:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Eh Josh Fields =/= Curry.

I know what you are trying to say, and it’s a disagreement on the value of the position. Not going to get anywhere.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Being congizant of sabremetrics would be good

but simply recognizing the personnel maxims that they support is what’s important. And some guys get it, can see it with their eyes, without the numbers. Some guys hold to traditional maxims like you need to run and stop the run, etc. As long as we don’t get a guy who’s antiquated in philosophy, we should be fine in this regard.

But most guys know the importance of a QB. Most guys know running an RB into the ground can get him hurt. If our next guy knows winning teams run, and not running teams win, that will help. He’ll certainly know it’s a passing league, won’t he? He’ll certainly know the importance of pass rush.

It would help, but not make a huge difference. It’s not that hard to recognize the core football tenets advanced stats point to, and build upon them.

by jacobstevens on Dec 3, 2009 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

When we get our franchise QB in the 1st round next season with Denver's pick.

I hope people remember it was Ruskell that got us that pick. He could of easily taken a player that would of contributed this season and hell maybe played well enough to save his job, but Ruskell did what was best for the franchise and for that I thank him.

SEA!

by MFAN on Dec 3, 2009 12:20 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Awful early to predict that, no?

Who knows which pick will be used on which position at this point in time…

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 3, 2009 2:33 AM PST up reply actions  

I think that previous comment was in praise of Tim for getting that draft pick

which could be used on a QB. The point is that the Denver trade was awesome — no matter how well the Broncos finish this season — and should be remembered when some people harp on Ruskell’s mistakes.

by J.L. White on Dec 3, 2009 7:51 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

While I do in general love trading 2nd rounders for 1st rounders in the next year's draft

I would still posit that if Denver ends up going deep into the playoffs the trade was not “awesome” at all really. Trading the 37th overall pick for the 30th pick (or something similiar) a year later is not a very good deal, in the same way that trading $100 for $105 a year later is not really a good deal, the small difference in value would not be worth the extra year you have to wait.

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 3, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Your Carolina pick gave a much higher yield

but both were very good moves. It’s results-based analysis to say what you’re saying. Denver had very many substantial indicators that they would struggle this year. They defied the odds. It’s still not a move that is hurtful, it’s got a net positive guranteed into it.

We could pick a franchise player, or a bust, if it was top 5, or 32nd, so we can’t use the results to judge it. It was a good move, as was SF’s. Ours felt like it had more potential to have a far greater yield, but even then I recognized that SF’s was a slightly better pull-off, because you traded less to get the same lottery pick. It had moderately less chance of scoring big, but the same lottery pick. It ended up scoring bigger, and it cost less, quite a coup. But nothing to criticize about either move, they were great moves.

by jacobstevens on Dec 3, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Not that they are model organizations but

if Cleveland and Buffalo are both actively looking to bring in Holmgren as a President/GM, he is certainly a top-tier candidate. Don’t forget, Holmgren brought in a future Pro-Bowler at the QB position for little more than a third round pick. I’d be interested to see how Holmgren could handle a GM role when he doesn’t have head coaching duties to take up the majority of his time.

by Kevaru on Dec 3, 2009 12:38 AM PST reply actions  

Top tier candidate does not mean good candidate.

Some ownerships are notorious for grabbing big names for all the wrong reasons. Washington is a good example. I say this seperate from whether or not Holmgren would make a good GM; I honestly don’t know. I suspect he’d be average, good with offense and terrible at evaluating defense. But I don’t know.

Time to take a wait and see approach.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 12:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Holmgren knew all about Hass.

He likely doesn’t have a stud QB waiting in the wings this time because he hasn’t been observing any QBs as closely as he was observing Matt when he was with GB.

by thebyron on Dec 3, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions  

And don't forget

Holmgren also drafted Lamar King, K. Robinson and J. Stevens with 1st round picks. If Holmgren is hired as a GM with either team. It will be because of his reputation as a Head Coach.

by cthunder on Dec 3, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh fuck..

I have a baaaaa-aaad feeling about this upcoming offseason.

Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.

by Carl Shinyama on Dec 3, 2009 1:01 AM PST reply actions  

Not me,

I think it’s exciting. I thought last offseason was going to be big. We’ll have a lot to talk about in the spring.

It's Great to be a Florida Gator!

"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett

All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.

by Wayward Llama on Dec 3, 2009 3:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I feel "dreadcitement"

I’m a pessimist by nature. Though I believe going in a new direction was the smart decision, I have a bad feeling Ruskell’s successor will be a worse GM. This is also a particularly dicey QB class, and the Seahawks really can’t afford to wait any longer to address QB.

That said, wow, its going to be fun watching what happens. Especially if the team hires someone with an offense pedigree.

by kearly on Dec 3, 2009 3:33 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm with you on this one.

At least with Ruskell, we knew what to expect: average to good GM decisions, for the most part.

I really hope we don’t pick a stinker.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 9:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Hey, now we can once again draft a jackass or two

Also small-school players.

You would hope the Seahawks have someone in mind they’d like to hire, but perhaps they were just done with Ruskell.

And yes, I’m terrified we’ll see a return of Holmgrem the GM.

by Gihyou on Dec 3, 2009 1:39 AM PST reply actions  

Also, just to scare you a little bit John

but

We’ll always have Mebane.

isn’t necessarily true. We might get a terrible GM that decides Mebane isn’t worth it and decides to trade him for a fading big NT to convert us to a 3-4 in an attempt to make our defense good enough for a playoff run before Hass leaves us. Not remotely likely, but possible. Of course, it’s also possible a meteor strikes Qwest Field and all our players die during their next game, but it’s not going to happen (damn that’s a gruesome thought!).

I mostly trust our ownership group to make a reasoned decision, and choose a good GM. But in these kinds of situations, anything is possible. And that scares me a little.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 1:50 AM PST reply actions  

Okay, now you're just scaring me.

I’m not really looking forward to this offseason. I’m REALLY not looking forward to the Holmgrem rumors hitting critical mass.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Dec 3, 2009 7:59 AM PST up reply actions  

See!

Now why you have to go and ruin my day?

by cthunder on Dec 3, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Too bad

I was hoping he would stay longer, as I’m not really a Ruskell believer. He’s not terrible but much too conservative for my liking. Ah well. The Seahawks need to rebuild both sides of the ball (well moreso offense, but both need help), will they still be doing it out of the same schemes or is the coaching staff gone after this year too? I’d think they would stay except it seems weird to bring in a new GM and not let him pick his own guys/philosophy.

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 3, 2009 2:37 AM PST reply actions  

According to AM radio this morning,

it seems like ownership will be adamant about keeping Mora, but that was just speculation. Nothing concrete.

by LantermanC on Dec 3, 2009 7:53 AM PST up reply actions  

I hope so.

They’re implementing a new scheme – it’s far to early to judge, especially in light of all the injuries we’ve had on offense this year.

The one thing I don’t like about Mora is doesn’t seem able to keep his team motivated and “in it”. We go down a few scores, and it’s quite obvious that the team falls apart (the Lions game being the one exception).

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't think it's motivation that is the culprit

But rather, they’re just not that good.

Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.

by Carl Shinyama on Dec 3, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree with this assessment
Reflexively rehiring Holmgren without considering all candidates is bad business.

Although to hear John Clayton tell it (sorry, I couldn’t find the link to the King 5 sports video from last night), option three — hiring someone from outside the organization — would be bad. I know he feels that way because it will probably mean Mora would be gone within a year.

But the alternative is either Holmgren (like I said yesterday, preferred by many because of “The Devil you know …” factor) or someone who’s not a good GM.

Clayton forgot about option four (the correct option), which Mr. Morgan has mentioned in the above quote.

by bleeding oil on Dec 3, 2009 2:56 AM PST reply actions  

Paul Allen isn't an idiot...

He’s a VERY shrewd businessman. He’s not going to hire anyone because they give him a warm & fuzzy feeling.

by Kevin M Smith on Dec 3, 2009 9:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Completely agree.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 9:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Exactly what I was going to say

Thought I have to believe that Allen will be involved in the process.

Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.

by Carl Shinyama on Dec 3, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

"Whether Ruskell could build an offense or not, it was never known to be his strength."

And… whether Holmgren can build an offense or not, it was never known to be his strength.

Let’s be very careful about turning this team into the 2004 Seahawks. GM Holmgren’s defense could not win a playoff game.

"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank

by Stevo's on Dec 3, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

d'oh

Of course I meant “And whether Holmgren can build a DEFENSE or not, it was never known to be his strength.”

more coffee, please…

"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank

by Stevo's on Dec 3, 2009 10:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Fortunately, a lot of the defensive players are in place.

With the (hopefully) departure of Walt, Kerney, and Branch, a lot of cap space will be freed up to bring in younger, talented free agents.

It's Great to be a Florida Gator!

"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett

All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.

by Wayward Llama on Dec 3, 2009 10:28 AM PST up reply actions  

exactly

When Ruskell was hired, a lot of the offensive players were in place. The defense wasn’t. Ruskell came in and rebuilt the defense successfully.

Now, five years later, the offense has fallen into disrepair.

I hope we don’t repleat this all over again. Will we bring in a GM, like Holmy, to fix the offense?

 If Holmgren is brought in to rebuild the offense and struggles to find defensive players like he did back in 1998-2002, we won’t be any better off than we are now.

"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank

by Stevo's on Dec 3, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Tim Ruskell did not leave the Defense in good shape though.

He did well our SB year with his defensive additions but after that he failed to duplicate that effort. We have holes on Defense right now. That was suppose to be his specialty. Cole, Redding, Jackson, Jennings, B-Russell (gone now), questionable Curry pick, are glaring problems at the feet of Ruskell. We complain about how we don’t want a Bavasi to run our Organization next but we may have just gotten rid of him. His first 2 years were pretty good but the last 3 have been rough.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 3, 2009 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Cole can be easily replaced.

Redding, Jackson and Curry are not even close to glaring problems.

SEA!

by MFAN on Dec 3, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Probably true but I think its still early to judge this D

I agree Jennings was a mistake, and I’m not sure why Ruskell thought Cole was worth so much money.

But I like Cory Redding. I think he is the kind of player our D was missing and we could use more big strong high-motor tough guys like him. And I think LoJack can still become very good. I think guys like Tapp, Curry, Hill, can all excel if we plug in a couple more players around them. Maybe move to a 3-4 and allow Tapp and Curry to pass rush more, or maybe just get some good safeties and another DT. I think our defense has a lot of talented players that can be part of a winning team for a few years.

"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank

by Stevo's on Dec 3, 2009 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Those are a lot of pieces still to replace

The problem I have is that Ruskell has focused primarily on the Defense with his draft picks and FA signings but there are still wholes to fill. All the attention was spent on the Defense at the expense of the Offense yet the defense is still on pace to give up more points this year then last years 4-12 team. We do have a few nice pieces but they’re still big holes. And yes our Offense needs an overhaul because of Ruskells choices.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 3, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Offense doesn't need an overhaul

Our offense isn’t that bad.. No one can predict injuries. Last year it was 9 WR’s this year it’s 6 offensive linemen. Losing Jones really hurt and the O-Line is finally getting to play together. Another thing that hurt our offense and makes the line look so bad is A) J. Jones and B) Hasslebeck. Jones is a decent RB back but just doesn’t fit this system. Hasslebeck (huge supporter of Hasselbeck) is playing with busted ribs and a sore shoulder. Not to mention he has lost the zip and accuracy on his passes.

Sign a Veteran LT, possible cut Hasslebeck and sign Jason Campbell and still draft a QB for the future is the Hawks best bet.

by cthunder on Dec 3, 2009 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the offense needs an overhaul

A few pieces to keep. And not just to push guys out the door, our next QB won’t start right away. Or I don’t want him to. But the majority of positions need new blood.

by jacobstevens on Dec 3, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

QB change means Rebuilding.

" Losing Jones really hurt"

But then you blame Jones for the reason our Offense looks so bad…huge contradiction. The best thing that happened to our team is that Jones got hurt. It forced Seattle to use Forsett and now we may have found our RB of the future. That injury may have saved us from using a 1st Rd pick on a RB we may not need.

“Sign a Veteran LT, possible cut Hasslebeck and sign Jason Campbell and still draft a QB for the future is the Hawks best bet.”

Campbell is engineering an offense worse then ours this year and drafting a QB next year will officially signal that were rebuilding. 3 of our 4 starting WR ’s are over 30 and our OL still needs more attention. Our Offense is not fine.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 3, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah it is

If they add another player or two to it I think that could be a pretty good defense for awhile.

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 3, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Corners, and a safety

Even expecting an improvement from pass rush and not playing from behind, they could hold us back. Like when Allen was complaining about beating Locklear so bad but still not getting home because Hasselbeck was slinging it so soon.

by jacobstevens on Dec 3, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions  

That's not enough.

We’ve given up more points this year then last years team so far. Plus the complextion of the NFL has changed. The Big Teams now have Big Offenses. This is an Offense first league now. We need Holmgren to come in to rebuild our Offense. Defense doesn’t win Championships anymore. Offenses do, with just a little help from the defense from time to time (mainly Red-Zone D)..

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 3, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

More accurately

One-sided teams don’t win championships.

Cases in point – Seattle ’05, Chicago ’06, New England ’07, Arizona ’08

You need 1 extremely good side of the ball, and another really good side of the ball.

by timlin45 on Dec 3, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Chicago and New England were not one-sided teams.

Even Seattle was not one-sided.

Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.

by Carl Shinyama on Dec 3, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Au contraire

Seattle had a completely-dominant-in-every-aspect-of-the-game offense. The defense had to play maybe 20 minutes a game and they were still barely in the top half of league DVOA, mostly because of the run which they never had to defend. Take the Giants game that year as an example. They couldn’t step up and win that game for the life of them. They were serviceable, but they weren’t good.

The Patriots were behind for maybe 10 minutes all season and still fielded the league’s 21st ranked run defense while running a run stopping scheme.

Your mileage may vary but I would expect better performance from defenses playing with the kind of advantage afforded by unquestioned league #1 offenses.

by timlin45 on Dec 3, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I disagree.

Seattle had a pretty decent defense that year, allowing only 16.9 yards per game. The DVOA is a pretty solid statistical measure of the team’s defense, but like all stats, they don’t tell the whole story. For your information, the Seahawks actually averaged less than 30 minutes per game on time of possession in 2005.

To say that they never had to defend the run is to discredit their run defense. The allowed only 3.6 yards per carry.

If the defense wasn’t as good as it was, it’s quite possible, maybe even likely, that the Seahawks don’t make the Super Bowl that year. They made key stops, especially in the red zone that year. They had one of the best rushing defenses in the league and one of the better pass rushes. That opposing offenses gained yards is next to meaningless because the Seahawks’ defense did what defenses are supposed to do: Keep the other team from scoring.

The Seahawks were a very strong offensive team that was paired with a good defense. That does not make them one-sided. But I can understand how having a league-leading offense can distort the perception that the Seahawks were a one-sided team.

As for New England, pay closer attention to their stats. I wouldn’t hang my hat on just one statistical category, and say that New England’s defense wasn’t good, and that they were a one-sided team. If I were to use your strategy, I could use the fact that they had one of the best pass rushes in the league that year, and say that they had a great defense. Their defense was still able to shut down some of the better offenses in the league (Dallas and San Diego, for example). Hell, they allowed 4.9 yards per play thoughout the season; with or without a great offense, that’s damn hard to do. Only 5 teams did better than that.

They had a historically good offense that was paired with an above average defense. But in their case, I can understand how it can create the perception that they were especially a one-sided team.

Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.

by Carl Shinyama on Dec 3, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

16.9 yards per game!?

WOW that’s amazing!

I’m assuming you meant points? ;)

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Points, yes.

Sorry, huge brain fart.

Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.

by Carl Shinyama on Dec 3, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Last Years Super Bowl...

demonstrated that High Powered Offenses beat High Powered Defenses. You do need a defense that plays well in critical downs (Red Zone, Important 3rd Downs) but not a dominant 86 Bears like Defense. Arizona lit up Pitts Defense in the Super Bowl and it was Pitts Offense that outscored the Cards to win. And if the Cards had more time they would’ve scored on Pitt again.

Even the pressure of High Powered Offenses make opposing Offenses play differently which helps High Powered Offenses Defenses. For ex. NE vs. Saints. NE Offense felt the pressure to keep up with the Saints which forced NE to abandon the run prematurely when NE running game hadn’t been stopped by the Saints. The League has changed now.

Top teams

Saints
Colts
Vikes
Chargers
Cards
Packers

These teams all put big points on the board. I’m not saying you don’t need a good defense but what I’m saying is that good Defenses aren’t nearly enough to win in the New NFL. You have to be able to put 30+ every game to make it to the SB.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 3, 2009 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow
Arizona lit up Pitts Defense in the Super Bowl

They were held to 7 points for 3 quarters. If anything they lit them up in the 4th quarter.

ME! BANE!

by SSreporters on Dec 3, 2009 5:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not buying this.

Pittsburgh’s Offense did NOT outscore the Cards. Take away the pick-6 and the Cardinals scored more points. You also say that teams need to be able to put up 30+ to make the SB, yet those same Steelers made the big game but averaged 21.6 points (hardly a high-powered offense).

by thebyron on Dec 4, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Pick 6

Like I explained many times so far, that pick 6 was an example of situational defense in the Red Zone. That was a 14 point turn around. I think the age of dominating defenses are becoming dinosaurs because of the rise of High Powered Offenses. That in the New NFL, Red Zone D and critical situational D are what will neutralize these High Powered Offenses because you can’t look to hold them to 14 points anymore.

The Steelers had to put up 35 against the Chargers in the Divisional round and they beat the Ravens to get to the SB. The Ravens offense was not High Powered by any stretch.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 4, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions  

That still doesn't make Pittsburgh a high-powered offense.

For your argument to be bolstered by that game the Cards would have needed to win. You’d be better off looking at Arizona’s postseason run. The Steelers scored 20 or fewer in half of their games last year.

by thebyron on Dec 4, 2009 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Pitts Offense won.

It was Pitts offense that won the game. When the team needed to score to win the offense did it. This Steeler team is more a pass first shotgun formation team then when Bill was the coach. Pitt will be transforming they’re team into a High Powered Offense soon. That’s only a gut feeling though.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 4, 2009 10:58 PM PST up reply actions  

No. Pittsburgh's TEAM won.

The offense wouldn’t have had the chance for that final drive if the pick-6 hadn’t happened earlier.

Arizona was the high-powered offensive team. They had been held to 20 or fewer only 4 times all season and had scored 30 or more 7 times, plus three more times in the playoffs. They lost.

Pittsburgh was the dominant defense. As Brendan points out below, they were first in DVOA. They were also “one of the greatest defenses in regular season history.”

If you’re looking for evidence that offense trumps defense, you need to look elsewhere. Looking at last year’s Super Bowl doesn’t support your argument, and it completely ignores the 18 games each team played to get there.

by thebyron on Dec 5, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

"Defense doesn’t win Championships anymore."

The 2005 Steelers and 2007 Giants would like a word with you.

ME! BANE!

by SSreporters on Dec 3, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

That was 05 and 07'. Offenses are different monsters now.

The Blueprint to winning has changed. The Redskins have the top rated Defense this year and there record is 3-7. A few years ago they probably would be 6-4 or 5-5 with that defense. Those years are long gone. 2005 and 2007 is so 1986 compared where the NFL is now.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 3, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

What?

You are taking about 2-4 years ago. The NFL simply does not change that fast, it only has abberation years.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

Just because there’s more offense this year doesn’t mean you can say defense is losing importance. Hell, the Ravens and Steelers were maybe the two best teams last year and they also had the best defenses.

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 3, 2009 9:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Defense is still important

" I’m not saying you don’t need a good defense but what I’m saying is that good Defenses aren’t nearly enough to win in the New NFL."

This is what I said earlier. I think Dominating Defenses are becoming the thing of the past. I think against these High Powered Offenses Situational Defense becomes more important. (Red Zone and 3rd Downs)

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 3, 2009 11:35 PM PST up reply actions  

What are you basing that on?

Just last year a team with a dominant defense won the Superbowl.

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 4, 2009 12:05 AM PST up reply actions  

The team that won the SB won because of it's Offense

That game illustrates my point. It was Red Zone D that led to the Harrison TD at the end of the half. But the Steelers D had no answers for the Cards in the 4th. They couldn’t keep them out of the endzone when the game counted. Pitts Offense had to drive down the field to win that game on a great throw and catch by Roth and Holmes. The team with the better defense won, but that defense did not dominate.

My quote was " against High Powered Offenses Situationsal Defense becomes more important. (Red Zone and 3rd Downs)."

 The Harrison play was a huge Red Zone stop. That was my point.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 4, 2009 12:20 AM PST up reply actions  

I disagree

Their defense was historically good (1st in DVOA), their offense was mediocre (21st in DVOA). You’re ignoring that based on one quarter of football. The defense was the reason they were in the Superbowl. The Ravens were arguably the second best team and they had the second highest defensive DVOA.

Past red zone defense correlates less with future red zone defense than regular defensive efficiency does, the differences are mostly due to small sample size. And 3rd down defense is always really important for obvious reasons, but it too can be fluky.

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 4, 2009 12:38 AM PST up reply actions  

True but you missed my point.

My point wasn’t that dominating defenses couldn’t dominate mediocre offenses. That will continue.

My statement was that Dominating Defenses won’t dominate High Powered Offenses in the New NFL. The SB last year illustrated my point. You can look at the league now and see the top teams all put points on the board.

I do think the team with the best Defense amongst those High Powered Offenses will have the best chance of winning, but it won’t be in dominating fashion. Those team will have to continue to score points througout the game to continue to put pressure on the opposing teams Offenses to keep up.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 4, 2009 12:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Why would we expect a top defense to dominate a top offense?

When two top units play each other we should expect them to play pretty square, not that one would dominate the other. Top offenses don’t dominate top defenses. In other words, if the Giants awesome running game last year went against the Vikings run D, we should expect each to play below their usual levels, there’s nothing abnormal about that.

And yes, the top teams this year have very good offenses, this has been a year where no really good defenses have emerged. But last year the top 3 teams in DVOA were also the top 3 in defensive DVOA, so could I have said offense was losing importance in the NFL because of that one year? Of course not.

Honestly, I think it should be common sense. Preventing points is just as important as scoring points, that can’t really change in any sport like football. Of course teams will have to keep scoring, just like teams with good offenses will have to keep points off the board too. You don’t see many teams with poor defenses or offenses doing to well unless the other unit is that much better to make up for it

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 4, 2009 1:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Also Pitts Defense...

gave up 407 total yards offense versus the Cards. Not even close to dominating.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 4, 2009 12:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Right

I’m not saying they played well that game though, one game doesn’t really mean much when we’re talking about league wide trends.

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 4, 2009 1:16 AM PST up reply actions  

One game does mean much

The SB snapshot has carried over to this year. High Powered Offenses have figured out that if you spread these good defenses out they can be had. I think the trend started in College Football and is now carring over to the NFL. Even the 49ers are going to a spread Offense to open things up.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 4, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

If a game means that much then you have proven yourself wrong.

I’m curious as to why you believe that the super bowl supports your point. The winners of the super bowl were below league average. They were not a “High Powered Offense” by any stretch of the imagination. They had an offense that was pretty good, better that most even, but not anything approaching dominant. The defense…now the defense was dominant. However dominant units and “dominant” schemes are still vulnerable. They ran a zone blitzing scheme designed to disrupt protection schemes and get defenders into the backfield. Its a sound scheme with precisely the kind of talent needed to run it. However they were still vulnerable. They were flat overmatched at the corners, and Kurt Warner was tough enough to handle the unblocked hits, and savvy enough to exploit the talent mismatch.

As for your other point:
The spread is countered very well scheme-wise (assuming one has the proper talent) by a 33 stack. College coordinators have picked up on this and have adjusted their schemes and personnel groupings accordingly and the spread is suddenly losing its “unstoppable” status at the college level. It should be noted that talent still trumps scheme and any team with a significant talent advantage will overcome any scheme concerns.

All defensive schemes have weaknesses. All offensive schemes are defeatable. Winning is a function of talent, execution and adaptation.

Look at the Colts this year. They are the perfect model of talent matching scheme. Everyone in the stadium knows exactly what their game plan is going to be. They have practiced and perfected what they do. As a result their execution is truly amazing to watch. Their scheme isn’t superior to the rest of the league; their fit, talent and execution are.

Then look at the Saints. They have fantastic talent again, but they aren’t dominant talent wise in the same sense that the Colts are. The Saints have an incredible scheme advantage precisely because they change scheme constantly to attack weaknesses in the defense. One week they’re in a spread. The next week they’re running a conventional pro set. I forget what game it was, but I caught one of their drives and was amazed when I realized they were running a Run and Shoot. They must give defensive coordinators absolute conniption fits. But you will notice, that when they run schemes that vary, their personnel choices also vary.

Don Shula isn’t the winningest coach in NFL history because he ran superior magical schemes. He’s the winningest coach in NFL history because he knew how to design scheme to fit the talent he had on hand and maximize talent mismatches against his opponents.

by timlin45 on Dec 4, 2009 3:44 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Good Point

You do have to have the talent to match the Spread scheme. I totally agree with that and that is why the Saints can go 4 wide and even 5 wide. But they do not go conventional the whole game. They usually go Pro-Set when they have a lead and are trying to wind down clock. But they do manage mix in Pro Set a few times a game when the down and distance makes sense for them.

But looking at the SB and looking at the top teams fromt this year you will see that Big Offense rules the land. If we are going to stay ahead of the curve we have to go Offense. Teams will start drafting to fit this scheme and not tailor schemes to fit their personnel if they want to win in the New NFL.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 4, 2009 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

That won't work if there's no cap though

There won’t be any young guys hitting free agency, let alone talented ones. The draft will be even more important than it already is.

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 3, 2009 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Not necessarily

Small market teams may be outbid by larger market teams, similar to in baseball. You’re assuming a similar revenue structure to base contract offers.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Dec 3, 2009 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't understand what you're saying

There won’t be many talented players reaching free agency because in an uncapped year players have to have 6 accrued seasons to be unrestricted free agents.

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 3, 2009 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

My personal preference for our next GM

Is a brilliant scouting director or assistant GM with big ideas that we’ve never heard of. Remember when Jack Z was a last minute throw in for the final 4 Mariners’ GM candidates this time last year? Everyone was saying “who the fuck is this guy?” And a lot of people were not happy with him being included because he had the aura of a Howard Lincoln old school yes-man. Boy, we’re they wrong. Since he’s been hired, he’s been a wonderful GM who understands value as well as any GM in baseball.

That’s what I’m hoping for. I hope the Seahawks find their own Jack Zduriencik.

by kearly on Dec 3, 2009 3:40 AM PST reply actions  

I don't want the next guy to be a one-trick pony

For the record I also agree that TR does not deserve to be fired, but can also see TR saying he doesn’t care to be a lame duck. Just one of those things I suppose—perhaps for the best.

If the report turns out to be true, I want the next person to have balance between draft/scouting and pro personnel. That is, I want a guy that can put a team together that covers all the bases—without the obvious blind spots and built-in biases Ruskell displayed at times.

What I wonder now is, how safe is the coaching staff? I cannot imagine very safe.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Dec 3, 2009 4:40 AM PST reply actions  

I agree.

Defensive consultant\Head of Scouting. Something along those lines.

by Bildo on Dec 3, 2009 6:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Defensive consultant? LOL

First of all it’s not up to “them”, it’s the choice of Ruskell’s replacement.

Secondly put yourself in Ruskell’s shoes. You’re the president of your company. Your contract is very publicly not extended … same as a vote of no confidence. Nobody would ever take a huge demotion with less pay just to stick around, puh-leeze. Talk about a humiliating career killing move.

The Hawks need to start bringing in the very best they can get. Ruskell isn’t that. Neither is Holmgren.

by xteve on Dec 3, 2009 7:57 AM PST up reply actions  

I disagree.

It is up to ownership. If ownership wants to bring in someone but has the requirement that Ruskell has a big say into the input for drafting and defensive players, then that will limit the number of candidates who want the job, but someone will still want the job.

As for humiliating career ending move, CEOs of bad companies are rehired as VP-Finances or board members all the time. Your career is only worth what people think it’s worth and if no one else is hiring or willing to hire, then is it really a career killer? Not every move has to be lateral or upwards. Ideally it would be, but obviously things are rarely ideal.

by LantermanC on Dec 3, 2009 8:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Think of it this way, instead

You’re president at a company. You don’t do a stellar job. It’s obvious you’re going to be replaced. You resign. But the company approaches you and says “hey, we all know the last few years didn’t go so well. However, we do see that you have a real talent doing XYZ. We’d like to hire you on as the VP of XYZ. I know it’s not president, but this is a position in which you’ll excel, without responsibilities that you wouldn’t.”

Sheds a different light, doesn’t it? Ruskell won’t likely be hired as a GM again. That’s my opinion. He’d be smart to take a high level position in which he’d excel instead of vying for a position he likely won’t get, and even he did, he likely wouldn’t excel at.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

This is probably

the best way to look at it.

by Bildo on Dec 3, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions  

I bet Ruskell will get a GM job again

maybe not next year, maybe 2011, but he’ll be back. Its hard for me to imagine any top exec stepping down and taking a second-tier job right away. That seldom happens once a guy reaches the top. I won’t be surprised if Ruskell ends getting hired to rebuild Tampa, or Cleveland, or Buffalo.

"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank

by Stevo's on Dec 3, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Agree to disagree.

“You’re president at a company. You don’t do a stellar job. It’s obvious you’re going to be replaced. You resign. But the company approaches you and says "hey, we all know the last few years didn’t go so well. However, we do see that you have a real talent doing XYZ. We’d like to hire you on as the VP of XYZ. I know it’s not president, but this is a position in which you’ll excel, without responsibilities that you wouldn’t."

No … again, in this case the ‘company’ isn’t making this decision. The GM is. Bringing back Ruskell as a ‘defensive consultant’ or in any capacity at all whatsoever would be akin to saying “Welcome to the White House Mr. Obama. By the way, your Secretaries of Defense, Education, and Health & Human Services are all carryovers from the previous administration. Have fun working with them.”

The only GM I ever heard in any sport of taking a demotion to stay with the team after being removed from his post (and let’s be honest, that’s exactly what’s happening here) was former Mariners GM Woody Woodward. It’s what bad organizations do.

In any case I wouldn’t consider the job Ruskell’s done in any way deserving of further services to the organization. Overall he wasn’t terrible but he wasn’t great either. He was just … meh. Seattle can, and should do better.

by xteve on Dec 3, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Except in this case, there's no one that the President reports to.

The GM reports to the owner, who can fire him whenever he wishes. Ex) he can say Holmgren, you can stay as coach, but you’re not longer GM. Or he can say Zorn, you can be the head coach, but you can’t call the offensive plays. Or Kiffen, you can look like the coach, but you can’t actually do any coaching.

by LantermanC on Dec 3, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions  

lol @ Kiffin. Well done, sir.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Funny quote:

“The only GM I ever heard in any sport of taking a demotion to stay with the team after being removed from his post (and let’s be honest, that’s exactly what’s happening here) was former Mariners GM Woody Woodward. It’s what bad organizations do.”

Uhm, what about Holmgren?!?

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by whiskey chainsaw on Dec 3, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Fair point

But GM/coach is a little different than being just a GM.

He was already the coach, so it wasn’t as if just coaching duties was a demotion per se, he already had those responsibilities all along.

by xteve on Dec 3, 2009 1:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd get behind the Holmgren GM idea pretty quick

If he brought in Tim Ruskell to be his defensive talent consultant.

by kearly on Dec 3, 2009 5:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Keep an eye out for.....

Ruston Webster. Although I can’t clearly recall where I heard it, I believe Webster will be one of the guys considered for the post. He would allow for a more seamless transition without much uprooting of staff. I believe he was molded in TB and we pryed him away from them. I am just not sold on Holmgren as GM and I wouldn’t mind him coming in as a Bill Parcells type of guy, but I honestly believe he is not the right call for the GM position. Maybe we can get Scott McLoughan, Ted Thompson or Mike Reinfeldt back. I am pulling for cap guru Reinfeldt.

by Homeygc on Dec 3, 2009 6:12 AM PST reply actions  

How big of a rebuild are we looking at here?

I’m not against Timmy being let go but I’d rather he’d have stayed another year. Way back in March the FG banner on the side said “Previewing the biggest offseason of Tim Ruskell’s career”. Looks like he failed and won’t get another chance.

What I am against wholeheartedly is Holmgren coming back. His GM history is no more than average and I don’t think just bringing him back here is going to suddenly make us 12-4 next season.

Good luck elsewhere Timmay.

ME! BANE!

by SSreporters on Dec 3, 2009 7:30 AM PST reply actions  

Well said.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I suspect that..

A full rebuild is coming. We have too many good but not great players.

by michaelfox99 on Dec 3, 2009 8:41 AM PST reply actions  

Remember when Gillick resigned for the Mariners.

And we ended up with Bavasi?

I see this happening.

abender20 hates freedom.

by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 3, 2009 8:45 AM PST reply actions  

I don't think you understand how bad Bavasi was.

There is no comparison in the NFL that I can think of to compare Bavasi too. Maybe the Oakland situation..? But that’s still an owner and not a GM.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Matt Millen...maybe.

He was pretty god awful. Like Bavasi, he brought in guys that were a terrible fit for his team, drafted all wrong, and achieved nothing positive during his tenure. No horrible trades to his credit, but I think Millen might be the closest we can get.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 7:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Calvin Johnson?

The only silver lining, I guess

by rex92 on Dec 4, 2009 3:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Calvin was a great pick

But even with Calvin, the Lions went winless last season.

by Misfit74 on Dec 4, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I know how bad Bavasi was

I watched him tear everything down that Gillick built. I felt like I was watching that happen to the Seahawks the last 2 years. Questionable trades like Bavasi and not hitting big on 1st round picks stand out. The Bedard trade killed me. To watch Sherrill and Adam Jones go for a injury prone pitcher who had only 1 good season has Deion Branch for a 1st Rounder written all over it. Not to mention the JP for Redding trade too. Ruskell isn’t as bad as Bavasi but I think there misreads are similar.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 3, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Why not?

Both Bedard and Branch have been big band-aids with bloated contracts with both franchises.

Bavasi traded away our 2 young studs with the hopes of winning right away with Bedard, while Ruskell traded our 1st Rd Pick (possible young stud) for Branch with the hopes of winning again that year. The deals mirror each other.

Both GM’s thought each move would put each franchise over the top. But both moves turned out to be huge flops. Overpaid injury prone players.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 3, 2009 11:48 PM PST up reply actions  

This is results based analysis.

There was no way the Bedard trade could ever have been worth it. Bedard could have had a 25 win season and Adam Jones could have failed horribly at the MLB level. It didn’t matter, because at the time of the trade, knowing everything we knew about the deal, it was a horrible horrible deal. Our team was clearly not good. One pitcher, no matter how good, was not going to push us over any tops. Hell, we probably weren’t going to reach any tops to push over. It was a god awful move at the time.

Branch was a move that netted us a WR talent that would be better for the next few years than what we could get from a WR that we might draft. The guy had been extremely important in NE, and productive. Hass needed a WR. It was still widely believed we were still in contention for a SB (and we would make the playoffs several times after we got Branch). It was not a great trade or a terrible trade, but it as a mediocre one. A mediocre one that worked out poorly for us.

by Fear on Dec 4, 2009 1:40 AM PST up reply actions  

88-74

“Our team was clearly not good. One pitcher, no matter how good, was not going to push us over any tops”

That was the M’s record going into the season that promped the Bedard trade. I would not say that team in your words “was clearly not good”. The M’s finished 2nd in the division and only 6 games back of the Angels. The Seattle Brass thought that Bedard could make up that 6 game difference and put us over the top.

I thought it was a reach for a pitcher who never pitched 200 innings and only had 2 good seasons. But some would look at this pitcher as a pitcher that might be hitting his stride and be a longtime dominating Ace. That case can be made too.

I remember everyone saying the same thing about the Branch deal. This would put us over the top and bring us back to the SB. Yet Branch had only 1 real breakout season, but even in that season didn’t top over 1000 yds. I was happy to add Branch but not at the expense of a 1st Rd Pk. Our own D-Jack had 3 1000 yd seasons and Ruskell ushered him out.

Since signing with the Seahawks Branch in 4 years has put up about 2000 yds receiving and 13 tds. Basically Branch has avg about 500 yds per season with 3 Tds. That is not worth a 1st Pick and the bloated 13 mil signing bonus he got after signing with us. You can call that “A mediocre one that worked out poorly for us”, I would just call that a bad trade. That’s what bad trades usually are. Deals that don’t work out for us.

The funny thing about Bedard is that if he played up to his potential and became the true Ace of our staff Bavasi might not have been a laughing stock but a man that paid a price to get the ace that he wanted. Same thing for Ruskell, if Branch could’ve stayed healthy and contributed to our team, it might have been a job saver for Ruskell. But it didn’t work out that way and he was pushed out.

I could see both sides of both trades but unfortunately we ended up on the wrong side of each deal. I was not on board with either deal for the price both were asking. Either way, both deals are dripping with similarities and both GM’s have faced the same fate.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 4, 2009 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

The Mariners vastly overperformed and got lucky in 2007.

This was a team that played way above their run differential and was clearly not a competitive team. There were many people in the blogosphere who went to great pains to point that out. Erik Bedard was not going to make a 75 win true-talent team playoff contenders. If he stays healthy, he might net three or four additional wins.

Two years of an injury-prone Erik Bedard was not worth six years of Adam Jones (who was the top position player prospect in the organization), Kam Mickolio, Chris Tillman, and Tony Butler.

That was a terrible trade no matter how you look at it. Completely and utterly indefensible.

by BrianL on Dec 5, 2009 12:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't think you follow much baseball.

Bill Bavasi was a laughingstock in the baseball community. The comparison to Ruskell is absurd beyond belief.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Dec 3, 2009 8:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I know Baseball and I know Bavasi was a laughing stock

Ruskell was not Bavasi but had some Bavasi traits. Bavasi was a laughing stock, but when Seattle won 80+ games under his watch the year before signing Bedard, he was not looked at as the laughing stock and many picked the M’s to win the West that season(sound familiar to this year a little). That season became a huge disaster and then Bavasi was ridiculed to no end.

Ruskell came in added good pieces to an already good mix. Almost like a touch of salt to a finished pot of soup. The perfect accent. But when asked to make the soup from scratch, Ruskell took away to many important ingredients and then added a his own ingredients that didn’t blend well together. Some of the individual ingredients taste good, but didn’t all mix together well in his soup.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 3, 2009 11:58 PM PST up reply actions  

No.

Bavasi was still a laughing stock among every community that wasn’t the main stream idiot fan. People who knew the team knew we were going to fall hard because our team simply wasn’t good. The 80+ win season was a fluke and luck based and not repeatable. Mortgaging our future to try and somehow improve on it was beyond absurd.

by Fear on Dec 4, 2009 1:30 AM PST up reply actions  

So ESPN the Magazine believes in Idiot Fans then.

The 80+ win team improved on a season that improved on a season before that. I don’t see how that’s so flukey. We went from 74 to 88 wins after losing 99 in Bavasi’s first season. ESPN the Mag picked us to win the West after making the Bedard trade.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080330&content_id=2466501&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

There were many in the sports world that thought that deal would put us over the top. I don’t know what your sighting when saying it was a fluke. But this is all besides the point. A lot of people picked the Seahawks to win the West this year because of the Housh trade and a healty Hass. They were wrong again.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 4, 2009 11:27 PM PST up reply actions  

They were not a true-talent 88 win team.

They weren’t even a true-talent .500 team.

by BrianL on Dec 5, 2009 12:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Also Pravda is the last place you should ever go for serious baseball analysis.

If you really want to know baseball and get past the garbage posted by MLB.com, ESPN, and Foxsports writers, go read Fangraphs and USS Mariner

by BrianL on Dec 5, 2009 12:46 AM PST up reply actions  

The point wasn't if the M's were truly talented...

I was just stating that serious baseball analyst picked to M’s to go the playoffs after making the Bedard trade. That “Everyone” didn’t see the franchise or the GM as a laughing stock. Maybe the hardcore M’s fans but not the national media. People felt that King Felix, Bedard, Washburn, and Silva could be a good starting rotation. But this is besides the point. I just was pointing out that the Bedard trade was taken seriously but was a reach just like the Branch trade. I remember the media questioning if Branch was worth a #1 pick too. But also how the media felt that if the trade worked out it could put us over the top. Both trades ultimately failed and both GM’s are now gone.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 5, 2009 6:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Gillick left the Mariners just as they were about to collapse

In fact a lot of the offseason moves between the ‘03 and ’04 season were advised by Gillick. Gillick’s mantra was building a team with average, low/medium cost veterans. That offseason, the M’s signed Rich Aurilia, Scott Spiezio, Raul Ibanez, and Eddie Guardado to medium size deals.

I respect the hell out of Gillick, but everywhere he’s gone he’s brought good results borrowed against the future, and he always left teams just before a brutal collapse.

by kearly on Dec 3, 2009 5:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I should add that Bavasi was still a terrible GM

But I think even a good GM would have been left holding the bag post Gillick.

by kearly on Dec 3, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Pat Gillick is the Larry Brown of baseball GMs.

He takes over a team on the cusp of contention, pushes them over the top with a few savvy trade and FA signing, and then jumps ship before it sinks. He may be a one-dimensional GM (I don’t think he even knows what a minor-league system is), but few GMs are better at doing what he did at that one dimension.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Dec 3, 2009 8:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Jeff Fisher may be available after the season.

I’m just saying.

abender20 hates freedom.

by Scruffy Lefty on Dec 3, 2009 8:47 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

Not if they keep winning games

Actually, I don’t think he’ll be either way. It doesn’t seem to me like he’s really on the hot seat anymore, they’ll let him have at least another year to see what they can do with VY as full-time starter.

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 3, 2009 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

As much as I love Jeff Fisher

I love Jeff Fisher. I hope he stays. Bud Adams has showed a lot of patience and confidence in him before. I also think he’s staying.

by jacobstevens on Dec 3, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

I think fans are blaming Tim Ruskell for the Seahawks losing

That’s irrational. I find it particularly confusing that virtually everyone praised his handling of the 2009 offseason, but some of those same people are now celebrating his dismissal. What did Ruskell do to generate such animosity? Did he hurt Walter Jones or cause Hasselbeck to grow old?

The Deion Branch trade is the most commonly cited critique. I wonder why similar criticism isn’t directed at Bill Polian for trading a first round pick for Tony Ugoh. I challenge Ruskell bashers to name one more by Ruskell that was worse than that decision.

by John Morgan on Dec 3, 2009 10:09 AM PST reply actions  

I'm not even close to a Ruskell basher,

in fact I’d prefer he stay but I personally consider the way the Hutch contract was debacled to be equal to the Branch trade.

by Bildo on Dec 3, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

I think this move has more to do with Leweike wanting someone new than wanting Ruskell out

It was one-and-one-half seasons of injuries to the O line and QB that brought this team down, not Ruskell. Whether Mora and his staff can bring this team back up is the biggest question now.

I don’t think Ruskell deserves much blame, I think he was a better than average GM whose team was caught in some bad situations with injuries and the Hutch transaction, which was the NFLs fault. It doesn’t make much sense to place blame for this season until we see how Mora and co. teach their system to these now-healthy players, and how well the players respond. By game 16 we will have a much better picture of how good this year’s roster actually was.

I don’t think Leweike had many reasons to let Ruskell go, and he more likely has someone or something new in mind. It won’t be surprising if that turns out to be Holmgren.

"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank

by Stevo's on Dec 3, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

None of his positive contributions will ever outweigh Branch/Hutchinson

in the broader fan base’s mind.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 10:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Hutch

People are still very angry about Hutch, a lot of people vowed to never forgive Ruskell.

by Nate Dogg on Dec 3, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Ugoh was younger and cheaper than Branch

But I’d say his biggest mistakes were not addressing the key areas of the team and instead taking safe players in the draft. The Hawks have no QB to turn to for the next few years, no offensive tackles (okay, Locklear is decent), a few decent receivers, and a late round pick undersized running back. That’s a shameful offensive core, much worse than the Niners, who of course have had a joke of an offense for the last five years.

And the defense, for all of the high draft picks and hype, is 20th in DVOA. 25th against the pass. I’m not saying that Ruskell is terrible because he isn’t, and he made some very good non-first round picks, but the team he was responsible for is not very good and does not look likely to be very good for the next couple of seasons. All that considered, I think the criticism is understandable, even if it’s not all Ruskell’s fault. People in charge take the fall when the team fails.

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 3, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Colin Cole is the crux of the problem.

If he demanded half the double teams that Brandon Mebane did, our defense would be dramatically better.

The signing was a big mistake.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Amen!

Ever since I heard the idea of having Redding bulk back to 3-tech size and moving Me Bane! back to 0-tech its been my personal wish for Hawks D. Every defensive snap I watch I check if my dream line ( Reed, Bane, Redding, Tapp ) is in. Sadly I haven’t seen it in yet. I really want to see show that one would play out.

by timlin45 on Dec 3, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd rather Kerney play in Reed's spot

I honestly believe Kerney is under-performing because of the interior line.

Reed disappears in regular season play. I think they need to transition him to LB or something.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I prefer Reed only because Kerney is not long for this league

Kerney is a better player than Reed right now, but that’s not why I’m so interested in this line combo.

I’m excited for it because it has so much potential.

If we sign Redding to a longer term deal he’s got 3 or 4 years of prime DT play left in him.
If Reed can bulk up a little bit, he has fantastic burst and motor. He’s 20lbs and 1 more rush move from achieving “We better chip that guy or he’ll eat our RT for breakfast”.

by timlin45 on Dec 3, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Great points. I'm with ya :)

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

LB, special teams, yeah.

Reed is not a NFL DE. Either change it up or get rid of him. I’m really disappointed that he couldn’t keep up the great play in the regular season. I really, REALLY wish we hadn’t of cut Bennett.

It's Great to be a Florida Gator!

"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett

All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.

by Wayward Llama on Dec 4, 2009 4:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually he *IS* an NFL DE

Listed as such on the roster of an NFL team.

And I’m not ready to jump ship on him after one year of intermittently facing starting caliber tackles. He hasn’t shown up like he did in the preseason, but he hasn’t been exposed as a weakness against the running game like people were saying he was going to be either.

He already has the most important parts of the DE position nailed down – correct diagnosis, discipline, first step and relentless pursuit (all the announcers suddenly starting calling it “motor”…I hate announcers). All he’s missing is some strength. He’s going to have a full offseason where he doesn’t have to spend time in other areas of life. I expect him to come into camp next year bulked up and ready to make a play for a starting spot on the roster.

by timlin45 on Dec 4, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Willis is a good tackle, but he's more suited for a system like

Dallas’ than for ours. He’s a mauler. I’d also like to see if and how he could transition to guard.

It's Great to be a Florida Gator!

"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett

All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.

by Wayward Llama on Dec 4, 2009 4:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Totally agree

Ruskell, is STILL being blamed for the Hutchinson fiasco. Thanks to the poison pill you either sign Hutch and make him the Highest paid player at a guaraneeted 49mil contract for a guard and say goodbye to FA’s and the salary cap. Or you let him walk. I am sad we lost Hutch but I am so glad he didn’t cave in to pressure and totally screw us for years to come.

by cthunder on Dec 3, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Am I the only one who doesn't care about Hutch at all?

So he let a great guard go away. Who cares, that frees up a lot of cap space for some other guy (Julian Peterson). You can get a serviceable guard for cheap in the 2nd round any time.

by LantermanC on Dec 3, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions  

And by not caring I mean totally indifferent.

Sign him for a lot, great, don’t sign him, great. No difference in my mind.

by LantermanC on Dec 3, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Nope!

Like I said sorry we lost Hutch but Ruskell got it right

by cthunder on Dec 3, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

That poison pill was the definition of disingenous.

I’m more angry with the league and arbiter for letting such an obvious circumvention of the intended rules of free agency stand than I am with TR

by timlin45 on Dec 3, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

It makes me angry that in Ruskell's final press conference

he has to make a comment about it. Not angry at Ruskell, but angry at the idiots who blame it on him. They just can’t let it go, as if having Hutchinson would have made much of a difference. This team has had all these other issues, and they still fixate on a player who, THREE YEARS AGO, left because he obviously didn’t want to be here.

I have never seen a player’s ability falsely ballooned to such fantastic proportions as the people who have the Hutch fetish have done.

Hutchinson of Legend (Warning, not actual Hutchinson)

It's Great to be a Florida Gator!

"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett

All I want for Christmas is Joe Haden, Eric Berry, and Nandamukong Suh in Seahawks blue.

by Wayward Llama on Dec 4, 2009 4:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I really think it was how he handled the 09 Offseason.

Trading JP for Redding created a void to draft (demoted from 3rd Down) Aaron Curry (when most saw WR or OL as a problem) at #4 that was then compounded by signing Colin Cole.

I gave Ruskell a B- for the draft because he (in my opinion) might have whiffed again in the 1st Round. Personally I’m not huge on drafting LB’s in the top 10 especially when we really needed a playmaker or a LT for the future (I wasn’t high on any of the LT in this years draft either but WR was there for the taking). Ruskell really didn’t solve anything this offseason. The same problems we had last year we have this year. An aging Offense with a few good parts on Defense. We have watched this team decline under his watch and I think that’s why you hear so much frustration directed at him.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 3, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

The only wide receiver available was Crabtree

and Crabtree had a lot of red flags. I did not endorse drafting Curry, but he was much less likely to bust than Crabtree, Smith, Sanchez or Monroe. Other than Malcolm Jenkins, I am not sure who else Seattle could have taken.

by John Morgan on Dec 3, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

To be honest

At the time, I thought Crabtree’s red flags were a joke. Hearsay and rumors about his personality should not constitute a red flag in my book. Plus I found it hard to believe the rumors that he was a diva or a scoundrel, when you can tell very quickly off the field that he’s actually very meek and mild mannered, almost to a fault. My biggest knock against Crabtree was he was so meek I worried that he might not have the mental toughness required. That and you can tell as soon as he opens his mouth that he probably has an IQ well under 100. But I don’t think either of those things seriously worried me.

His injury was a non issue as well. He produced playing with the injury in his last college season, and had surgery to repair it. So really, I always considered it to be a positive rather than a red flag, since he produced even with the handicap and was going to get healthy.

Crabtree was still a risk of course, just because of position. WR is tied with QB for the riskiest (most likely to bust) position in the 1st round (with safety being the safest).

I liked Sanchez and would have made him the pick, but he definitely had red flags. Monroe had several red flags. Andre Smith was not a scheme fit and had weight issues. Whereas Curry had no red flags at all. If the #1 criteria was simply risk aversion, Curry was the best pick by a mile.

by kearly on Dec 3, 2009 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

When you are paying that kinda money to someone

he better not bust or your team is going to be set back quite a bit.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 7:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I think when drafting in the top 10

Positional value rises dramatically. The upside of a pro-bowl LB is much lower than a pro-bowl QB, WR, or OT. In terms of pure upside, how much more valuable is Peyton Manning, Larry Fitzgerald, or Walter Jones than Patrick Willis? Now, I don’t think there was a Manning or Jones in this draft (although it was a good OL class), but Crabtree had elite talent and played a cornerstone position. I was a believer in Sanchez as well if he was granted a soft landing (a Rivers/Rodgers career path) which Seattle could have offered.

Scarcity factors as well. You can find very good LB’s after the first round, but finding a franchise QB after the 1st round is extremely rare.

Need factors as well. Curry was a luxury pick for a team loaded at LB in the face of major needs and a scarce chance to acquire a top talent at one of them.

This is why top 10 LB’s are very rare and only 3 LB’s were drafted top 5 this decade.

When drafting in the top 10, you are in the zone for players that are almost impossible to acquire otherwise. Its very hard to find a Manning, Fitzgerald, or Jones outside of this zone. And while you may not find a LB as good as Curry, very good LBs can be found in the draft, sometimes much later.

by kearly on Dec 3, 2009 8:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Well said

I agree with everything. The only scenario where i think a LB is truly worth a top 5 pick is if he is an All-Pro type player or if he is an OLB for a 3-4 (because they are basically the same as 4-3 ends).

by Brendan Scolari on Dec 3, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I know all this.

And I was never on board with the Curry signing. But that doesn’t mean I don’t understand it. I respect it, because it didn’t hurt our franchise. And it may vastly improve our defense if Curry turns into the elite talent he is capable of being. But I was more on the Sanchez bandwagon because of positional value. I never liked Crabtree because I don’t value WR’s all that much anyway. I think they are much easier to find in the later rounds (after the first wave of 1st and 2nd round picks) then people realize. And I don’t think you need a Jerry Rice to win a championship. You do need a premier QB. But it’s all water under the bridge now because the pick was made.

by Fear on Dec 4, 2009 1:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Passing offense is the biggest contributor to regular season wins

A #1 WR is more valuable than a 4-3 OLB.

Curry won’t hurt the team on the field. But the opportunity cost is substantial, and he’s less likely to earn his paycheck than a #1 WR, left tackle, or QB prospect would.

by kearly on Dec 6, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

And yet being rather meek, he said you'll never find him wearing the same thing twice.

I felt the same way you did, though. But it was also a little bit the offense, and Curry was just safer. And had moderately more potential for his position than Crabtree at his. Not higher ceiling guy to guy, but higher ceiling within each position.

Crabtree’s position is more important, impactful and desirable. But we had these pass rush plans for Curry, as well, so that’s kinda negated. So, higher floor, most importantly, but also higher positional ceiling, and pending usage a nearly as important position (or even, with the 3-4 discussion, pending usage an even more important position) made me understand the Curry pick. My heart was on Sanchez first, Crabtree second, Monroe third and Curry fourth, but I could understand and support the reasoning.

I feel like we’ve talked about this before.

by jacobstevens on Dec 4, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Damn.

I didn’t want it to come to this. I wanted Ruskell to stay. I believe it would have been the best course for the team. It’s too early to change horses. But he’s moving on. I hope he does well where he goes next. Unless it’s within the conference, of course. But even in the division a part of me would want to see him succeed because I’d like my opinion corroborated.

by jacobstevens on Dec 3, 2009 10:14 AM PST reply actions  

2 more years

is what I would have liked to see for Ruskell to add a premiere DE and a new QB.

by Hancock.Brett on Dec 3, 2009 10:16 AM PST reply actions  

me too.

whats up brett its mosher.

by cro-mag! on Dec 3, 2009 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

hey dude!

long time, funny crossing paths here of all places.

by Hancock.Brett on Dec 3, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Thank God.

Todd just said they are going to not jump to GM conclusions and take some time to be extra thorough picking someone who fits.

by DJ C-Raig on Dec 3, 2009 10:25 AM PST reply actions  

its done now

I had to stream it through KJR.

by Hancock.Brett on Dec 3, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

It was, done now.

Todd also said “Who ever we hire; we aren’t going to join them, they are going to join us”. That’s good.

by DJ C-Raig on Dec 3, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

I think he has to say that.

I will be very surprised if Holmgren isn’t back in the building after an appropriate pause.

"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank

by Stevo's on Dec 3, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions  

agreed

He said all the right things but the stench of familiarity is to strong. If Holmgren comes back in a role above GM and hires somebody with a similar philosophy to his(offense that is) I think it could work. Holmgren as just a GM terrifies me.

by Hancock.Brett on Dec 3, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions  

The way the Seahawks handle these transitions gives me confidence in Leweike

The transition from Holmgren to Mora was handled well. This announcement of thanking Ruskell and letting him resign before actively seeking his replacement is a very classy move, and good for the organization. I now have a lot of trust in Todd Leweike.

I wish I had as much trust in Mora as coach… or Holmgren as GM… or Hasselbeck’s health… or home field advantage next Sunday…

"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank

by Stevo's on Dec 3, 2009 10:39 AM PST reply actions  

I'm confident in them, too.

Holmgren or someone else, I’m fairly certain we’ll get a good guy. I don’t think I’ll be disappointed in who we get. That says nothing about the results, but I’m sure we’ll get a good guy.

I just wish it was Ruskell, because I think he’s best suited to build on what he’s already built on.

by jacobstevens on Dec 3, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

How so?

“The transition from Holmgren to Mora was handled well. "

Really? I thought it was the most poorly handled coaching transition I’ve ever seen in over 30 years of watching pro sports … announcing Mora as the head coach right before the beginning of Holmgren’s farewell season, effectively undermining him in the locker room … then watching Mora’s secondary unit come in dead last vs. the pass …

“This announcement of thanking Ruskell and letting him resign before actively seeking his replacement is a very classy move”

Allowing him to “resign” after not tendering him a contract extension is classy? That makes absolutely no difference at all to prospective candidates. Ruskell was as good as fired once his contract wasn’t renewed. It may a slightly more dignified way to fire someone, but it’s still the same thing.

by xteve on Dec 3, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Handled about as well as any catch-22 can be handled...

Once a coach announces that he’s on the farewell tour there isn’t much that can be done. You can’t exactly blame TR for Holmgren’s lame duck status. At least TR got out in front of the story, which is about all you could do. Everyone knew that Mora was a coach-in-waiting so there was no secret to be kept.

I’ll agree with you that not renewing a guy is, in the sports world, tantamount to getting fired. That was ownership’s decision, and there’s no great way to do that. I’m a Knicks fan. I’ve seen that done a LOT, LOT worse. At least Ruskell got to go out on better terms than outright dismissal.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Dec 3, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

TR

“You can’t exactly blame TR for Holmgren’s lame duck status.”

TR is the guy who chose not to extend Holmgren or if you like chose to retain him during a lame duck year, who decided to bring in Mora, who decided to make the announcement that Mora would take over as head coach less than a month after Holmgren’s annoucement the following year would be his last. Of course I can blame him. Who else would be responsible?

I don’t buy it was a catch-22, at all. Teams fire & hire coaches every year, yet nobody ever decides to publicly name next year’s head coach while the current guy is still coaching. It’s just bad policy. As a Knicks fan you should be familiar with that too :)

by xteve on Dec 3, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Well I'm totally bummed

I had talked myself into being ok with this but now that its happened it pretty much sucks. The team has the opportunity to improve at GM but theres a whole lot more ways for them to end up worse off.

by Nate Dogg on Dec 3, 2009 10:56 AM PST reply actions  

I'm sure certain players will stay

There is no way any GM worth his salt can view the Mebanes of the world as expendable. I find some comfort in that.

by Hancock.Brett on Dec 3, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

I hope to God you're right.

Stranger (read: dumber) things have happened.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Agree with Stevo's point -- this move was much more about the prospect of Ruskell moving the team forward than what Ruskell did

You could make a case for keeping Ruskell or getting rid of him. I think Leweike considered the prospect of Ruskell continuing to shape the franchise in his own image and thought better of it.

I am less certain that Leweike has Holmgren in mind. The fact that he retained Webster as interim, and that he’s been announced as a candidate, makes that the (early) high probability play. After that, we don’t know. The market really hasn’t been set yet. We know Holmgren is out there. We know Shannahan is out there. We really don’t know much about who else just yet.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Dec 3, 2009 12:32 PM PST reply actions  

Is Shanahan qualified to be a GM?

I know very little about the guy other than he coached in Denver since like 1877.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Shanahan wasn't just the coach.

He was the sole controller of the team for years. That is, he was both coach and GM and wielded absolute power over the team (except for the owner of course).

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for the info!

It isn’t a big surprise, honestly.

I would love to see someone like Shanahan run our team. He’s exactly the offensive-minded guy we desperately need right now.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Plus he knows how to draft for our offensive scheme

Although his defenses have always been extremely suspect in my book.

by timlin45 on Dec 3, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

This is what I don't like.

Why can’t smart guys like Shanahan, Holmgren, or Ruskell put aside their egos and say you draft defense and you draft offense? And when it’s a tossup, we both advocate drafting for our guy and rationally decide on who to draft (say the 6th pick is between Okung or Gerald McCoy, or the 20th pick is between Charlie Brown or Dann Williams).

by LantermanC on Dec 3, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

That's a great question

I always thought with Holmgren that he really was not adept at identifying defensive talent. The experiences that shaped his eye for talent—not just for players, but for coaches too—were all on the offensive side. Ruskell’s were all on defense.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Dec 3, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

The answer: Finite Resources.

You simply don’t have the draft picks and money to get everything you like, and the probability of the offense and defense BOTH staying healthy isn’t high either, so some teams that go for both end up with neither, and some that go stronger on one side or the other simply have a couple injuries to the thinner side and that destroys that squad.

Also, four SB winning teams of recent memory were not very balanced— NE, Indy and St. Louis were all offensive heavy to a strong degree. And Baltimore was just the opposite.

Bottom line, it’s hard to be good and balanced in the NFL. Most teams that get there do so my having one great side of the ball and one good enough side when the great side carries them.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by whiskey chainsaw on Dec 3, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh, I'm not arguing why teams do invest in both equally.

I’m arguing why can’t Shanahan see that he isn’t that good at evaluating defensive talent and let a defensive specialist call most of the calls. Offense oriented head coaches let D-Coordinators call the defensive plays, seems like an offensive minded GM would have a defensive coordinator specialist.

by LantermanC on Dec 3, 2009 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

The more I think about it

the more intrigued I am about Shanahan. Here’s a guy who’s done the job before, with great success for years, and drafted one hell of a core of offensive talent while transitioning from Elway to the future. Not an easy thing to do. He’s got a huge ego, but if the Tuna can become a GM without bothering the HC too much, then Shanahan can (Shanahan can! HAH! I think I just found a new motto!). The offense he ran is similiar to our own, our line scheme is built off what his teams did, everything we are doing on offense seems to be extremely similar to what he ran in Denver.

I’m not saying we should go out and grab him, I’m not even sure if he’s available, but I am definitely intrigued.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I think Shanahan wants to coach still...

but I could be wrong.

Holmgren has expressed desire to move to the front office exclusively, and Shanahan seems to still be a sideline roamer.

My pick for Shanahan is Lovie Smith to be looking for work and Chicago to bring in the guy that their shiny new QB had success under.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by whiskey chainsaw on Dec 3, 2009 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know

I can see what you are saying, but I’m not sure Shanahan wants to give up GM powers either. I think part of the problem in Denver was the owner wanted a new GM and he didn’t want to give up any power. Either way, it’s all speculation. He’s still an intriguing prospect.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm officially on this bandwagon

Its a great fit. With a defensive minded head coach and hotshot D coordinator providing feedback for they want in the way of defensive talent I smell something beautiful in the mix.

Shanahan can!

by timlin45 on Dec 3, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I meant that Holmgren doesn't want to roam the sidelines while running a team

but that Shanahan still wants to be the cook and buy the groceries.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by whiskey chainsaw on Dec 3, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Shanahan wants to coach still

Haven’t heard that he wants to only work upstairs. And who are the defensive players he’s picked over the past few years?

by Badmotostinkfinger on Dec 3, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

None worth mentioning that I know of.

He might have had a hand in Champ Bailey but other then that…I’d have to go back and do a real look at him. If he was brought in, it would be because we have a defensive minded HC that hopefully would help balance him out.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Uhm, we're in agreement here.

He wants to both coach and have intensive upstairs responsibilities.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by whiskey chainsaw on Dec 3, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Yea Shanahan probably

wants his old GM+HC gig back. Doubt he’ll get it though (unless someone is really desperate). But that’s why I said I don’t even know if he’s available.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions  

You can do a lot worse.

Particularly if you are a team like Buffalo or Cleveland or Oakland (I know that wont happen, lol) who is searching for legitimacy.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by whiskey chainsaw on Dec 3, 2009 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

True.

I have a hard time believing he can deliver the complete package (as a GM+HC) after seeing where his defense went near the end of his time in Denver, but if a team only cares about getting back to mediocre then he should be able to get them there.

by Fear on Dec 3, 2009 7:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I seem to remember that Holmgren has said that he's keeping all options open

So I don’t think his desires are exclusively limited to a front office position. I think he’s open to another coaching gig, if it’s the right one.

Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.

by Carl Shinyama on Dec 3, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

The Shanahan can

…because he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good!

Uh. Sorry.

by thebyron on Dec 4, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

All things considered...

Ruskell left the roster in reasonable shape—I mean for a guy who was pushed out. The roster has holes but it is not devoid of talent. It is in reasonable—or perhaps even good—cap position, and it has a relatively young defensive core with talent that could fit multiple schemes, obviously nothing at QB that has to be kept past its usefulness, multiple high picks, and a number of places to lop off salary. All that in a winnable division, and a fan base that’s not delusional about its place in the NFL.

By contrast, consider what the poor bastard who takes over the Bears will walk into; a great brand name with out-sized fan expectations, a stud QB with receivers that could not be a worse fit for him, possibly the worst offensive line in the league even when “healthy”, and an aging defense running a scheme that is quickly becoming obsolete.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Dec 3, 2009 12:40 PM PST reply actions  

Very well put.

It gives us Hawk fans a lot to be hopeful and excited about (and Bears fans a lot to be depressed about lol).

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Dec 3, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Fewer and fewer teams are turning to the Tampa 2

The primary practitioners are the Bears, Colts, Seahawks, and Bucs. From it’s origins in Tampa I wouldn’t say it has spread all that widely. More recently the Rams and Falcons have gone away from it in recent years. That speaks to waning popularity.

As for outright obsolescence, I think it places a high premium on a hard-to-get resource—the disruptive 3-technique DT. It’s hard to find those guys, and even harder to get any depth behind them. I think the Bears are a great example. That defense has been able to replace linebackers, but they have never been the same since Tommy Harris first got injured.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Dec 3, 2009 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

There's three main tenets of the Tampa 2

and two of them are still pretty much essential. Reliance on the front four for pressure, and 2-deep coverage. The third is the four underneath zones with the MLB taking a quasi deep middle, which is kind of vanilla and that’s probably out of vogue. That kind of coverage goes to nickle backs or man coverage on extra receivers.

And there’s probably been an increase in cover 3 and quarters. It’s just not used as a name-brand model much. But not really obsolete.

by jacobstevens on Dec 3, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I heard nothing about scheme.

The fact that a scheme isn’t being used widely isn’t a critique of the scheme. Just because the 3-4 is being used more than it was a decade ago doesn’t mean that the scheme is suddenly “un-obsolete”

I agree that is places a very high premium on a rare resource. But so does every scheme. The 3-4 places a disgusting requirement on a dominant 0-tech. The 46 requires linebackers that can cover like nickel backs and a safety with range like Ed Reed. The 33 stack requires assignment perfect linebackers that can consistently defeat blocks from linemen. Even the touted genius of Dick LeBeau’s zone blitz schemes would be worthless without defensive ends that can legitimately cover well enough to handle decent tight ends.

Above everything else your scheme needs to maximize your talent.

So probably a different way of saying it would be that the Bears’ talent is rapidly becoming obsolete for their scheme.

by timlin45 on Dec 3, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

The poor bastard will probably be Mike Shanahan.

And he’ll have them straightened out in no time…

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by whiskey chainsaw on Dec 3, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

More recently the Rams and Falcons have gone away from it in recent years.

from the Department of Redundancy Department.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Dec 3, 2009 1:10 PM PST reply actions  

Adam_Schefter

Not so fast on Mike Holmgren to Seattle. Seahawks hired NY search firm Spencer Stuart to assist them in hiring Pres/GM.

by Badmotostinkfinger on Dec 3, 2009 1:52 PM PST reply actions  

Can you link it?

Spencer Stuart’s website says they’re an executive consulting firm. I would’ve thought that a sports executive would be too ‘specialized’ for a general consulting firm.

by LantermanC on Dec 3, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Just his twitter account

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

Plus, Seahawks must abide by Rooney Rule, which now extends to senior front office jobs. So lots for team to sift through.

If the Seahawks hired Spencer Stuart to help them, then clearly they can’t have deal done with Holmgren and will seriously look elsewhere.

But don’t tell KJR, Holmgren is the only person that knows anything about football in the NFL.

by Badmotostinkfinger on Dec 3, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't understand the logic behind

The assumption that bringing Holmgren back is the solution to our problems at GM. Since when did rekindling a fire that hasn’t been lit in 5 years guarantee success?

ME! BANE!

by SSreporters on Dec 3, 2009 2:05 PM PST reply actions  

I really think it has more to do with Holmgrens' respect

garnered around the league and his ties around the league. Holmgren is a pure football guy too, where Rukell was more business minded.

I am not sold on Holmgren returning but wouldn’t mind if he did because at least I know this time he would do things differently.

"What is it about good sex that makes me have to crap?"

by durteehawk on Dec 3, 2009 3:10 PM PST reply actions  

That timing of this is probably for the best.

If the organization’s direction was to change GM, then why not now? We can be in the hunt to interview candidates that the Browns and Bills (perhaps others) are pursuing or could pursue. It leaves the possibilities wide open, and we shouldn’t be rushed into a decision. This organization, and our owner have elite facilities and deep pockets. We should be an attractive option – however, having the coaching staff in place may exclude certain candidates (or cause a coaching change).

by Misfit74 on Dec 3, 2009 3:40 PM PST reply actions  

Adam Schefter twittered on this:

“Not so fast on Mike Holmgren to Seattle. Seahawks hired NY search firm Spencer Stuart to assist them in hiring Pres/GM.”

“If the Seahawks hired Spencer Stuart to help them, then clearly they can’t have deal done with Holmgren and will seriously look elsewhere.”

by rex92 on Dec 3, 2009 3:57 PM PST reply actions  

They're not dumb, they know Holmgrens track record first hand

Hell, they already fired him once. The Holmgren thing I don’t really get. He’s not coming back. They moved on, both as a GM and then as coach, because the NFL had passed him by. They’re moving on from Ruskell because the NFL has passed the Tampa2 by. I expect, or maybe just hope, they try and find someone with some real vision on where the NFL’s going, not where it’s been.

by B.B.Finnegan on Dec 3, 2009 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I hope you're right

I respect the man greatly but I just don’t want him controlling this team’s future any more

by rex92 on Dec 3, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting comment and you make some sense with it.

I tend to think that the HC has as much to do w/ the vision you speak of. The problem w/ a GM in Holmgren is that the GM must obtain players to fit the coaching staff’s player desires/needs specifically w/ their system in mind. Holmgren has a different system than Mora, Knapp, et al. Not a good fit, IMO. We need a good fit for Mora’s system. Holmgren has his own (and older) ideas.

by Misfit74 on Dec 4, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

You think after one 4-12 Season Football passed Holmgren by?

After taking this franchise from the dumps to the SB you feel after 1 season after winnning 4 NFC West Titles football passed Holmgren by? Ruskell made him a lame duck coach by hiring Mora (his guy from AtL who had 2 losing seasons in a row there) along with a revolving door at QB and every WR out known to man. It’s not like Ruskell helped Holmgren on the offensive side of the ball while he was GM either. Football may have passed the Tampa 2 but the WCO is still alive and well. And I don’t think the WCO is only a distant memory for Holmgren. He deserves a shot. He earned it as a coach and a GM. He did better with both mantles as GM and Head Coach then Ruskell did only being a GM.

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 5, 2009 7:02 PM PST up reply actions  

If after we've considered all possible candidates and Holmgren is the best available...

…then it might make sense. I’m not sold on a 60-year old and fairly inexperienced GM winding down his football career being the bona fide #1 choice. There are guys in ATL and PIT both that could be excellent candidates…there are many more that will come out in time. This Holmgren talk is knee-jerk nostalgia as much as anything else, propagated by the national media that hang on any somewhat legendary NFL figure’s every word to jump the next big story. I hope our search is thorough and pervasive. Hiring that firm to help w/ the search in an early indication it might be.

by Misfit74 on Dec 5, 2009 9:19 PM PST up reply actions  

That makes sense...but I think Holmgren makes more sense.

Looking back at his record he did a pretty good job…Plus he is still very familiar with this roster and probably has more insight on where we need upgrades and in what order. Our Offense is in serious need of a Rebuilding job. There is no one more qualified then Holmgren to do this. We need a new Franchise QB. I think the exit of Zorn and Holmgren have affected Hass more then he would say. Holmgren is the guy to usher in a new QB and that is the most important step for our franchise. I’m also on the Gruden coaching bandwagon also. With Matt probably being here another two years Chuckie took a veteran led Bucs team to the Championship with Brad Johnson in the latter stages of his career. Gruden also had great success with Rich Gannon. These are the people we need in place to bring us back to prominance..

by Mr. Blache III on Dec 5, 2009 10:07 PM PST reply actions  

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