Everette Brown Measures 6'1 7/8", 256
by John Morgan on Feb 23, 2009 10:37 AM PST
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PrintBrown clears a huge hurdle and once again positions himself as a viable choice for Seattle at four. Is he overweight? That should be evident in the drills. So far, he has posted a 4.73 unofficial 40, which is very good. I'll update with his agility drill scores.
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Good news.
Are you happy w/ his height measurement? It’s hard not to get excited about this guy. I’m anxious for him to answer more of the questions we may have. He weighed his exact listed weight (sans the 225 discussion), eh? Cool.
I would be worried about his height
if he wasn’t a skills and athleticism freak. He’s also rangy and reportedly cut from granite.
by John Morgan on Feb 23, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
after Tapp and LoJack?
don’t get me wrong, I love pass rush as much as the next guy (and more than most) but wouldn’t it be quite an investment into one position to have Brown, Tapp, LoJack (and Kerney and Atkins) all on the roster? I don’t really see any of those guys having the size to move into a 3-tech DT except on obvious passing downs, so it seems like we would have an awful lot of talent sitting on the bench (similar to JM’s argument against drafting a CB)
And expensive.
I hate the idea of drafting at one position repeatedly and early until someone sticks out as a no-shit starter.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 23, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Jackson has the size and did kick inside in 2008
Brown worked at DT in college, and it’s important to know that Kerney likely has one season left.
by John Morgan on Feb 23, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
I agree, it's really disappointing to me that we're addressing the same issues
We have a veteran pro bowler at both DE and CB, and have used a 1st and a 2nd round pick in recent years on both positions, and for some reason, we’re still considering using the 4th overall pick on these positions. Don’t get me wrong, the only thing worse than fixing up a bad mistake of the past is failing to recognize it as a mistake in the first place, but I think we have other needs that are more important and there are other players that are comparable to Brown that will make big impacts on our team.
Good point
Spending too many picks on one position can hurt. Part of why we’re picking 4th, I’d say, since we hadn’t picked an offensive player in the first day since 2002 with Stevens/Morris until Carlson.
So I’ve heavily leaned towards tackle or Crabtree, as long as it’s offense, the whole offseason, but two counters to my own argument: when the pass rush is there, our previously invested CB picks pay off, and I’m starting to feel pretty certain that Jason Smith and Crabtree will go 1st & 2nd. I’d still be happy with Eugene Monroe, but the only other picks left would be QB or Everette Brown. If Ruskell’s squad decide he’s worth 4th, he’s at least close enough in my mind already that I won’t be disappointed even though I want us to start picking offense for a change.
by jacobstevens on Feb 24, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
Rob Rang:
“The reality is, until Sunday, I had Everette Brown being the elite pass-rusher of the bunch. He came in at 6-foot-1 7/8 and that is just too short. I think he’s going to drop down a little bit”
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest/0-8-207/Best-case-scenario—49ers-with-No—10-pick.html?post=true
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
Frog, I thought you WERE Rob Rang...
Who I imagine is too busy these days to follow local Hawk pages that much.
I still double take when I see his name in draft talk, we had several classes together at CWU years ago.
Everette Brown simply does not excite me.
Nobody south of Crabtree does.
I want a tap-tap-pick-back. Give us our normal “in the 20’s” pick this year
and let us have the 4th NEXT year. This year sucks…
If Crabtree isn’t there, I want a 1st round OL Tackle (I guess the Baylor kid)
2nd Round interior OL (Unger, Duke Robinson-type in trade down or Andre Smith if he actually falls that far)
3rd Round – The UConn RB if he’s still around, but primarily a “value pick” of whatever type.
I can’t help but to think that the defense will be inherently improved by a new coaching staff and a better offense, and the best way to improve the offense is to improve the O-line. It’s amazing how rarely you see a top 5 O Line with a crappy offense, yet you’ll see a top 5 QB, RB, etc. with bad O-line.
It’s the foundation of a great team. We have some modest to decent cogs at present. Let’s go all out and rebuild it, and see what happens from here!!!
I'm kinda sad Shanahan is gone... I liked the Donkeys being 8-8 every year...
by Tyler Jorgensen on Feb 23, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
I agree . . .
I can’t help feeling like the draft is going to fall. . .
1. Stafford
2. J. Smith
3. Curry
4. Eugene Monroe or Crabtree
With Walt’s injury and Age, it feels like Eugene Monroe is going to be our guy.
Crabtree
You think Crabtree will still shake out as a top 5 at 6’1" (instead of the previously thought 6’3") and with the nagging injury?
by Nick Andron on Feb 23, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
My thought on height...
First, let me say this comes from being a basketball guy first and foremost…
The measurement from your feet to the top of your head is not nearly as important as the measurement from your fingertip to fingertip.
I read somewhere Crabtree had the largest wingspan of all the WR’s, and that to me is far more valuable.
I’m 6’4" and in my playing days always had people say, “If I had your height, I would be able to dunk like you do or better.” Then I’d say, “Fine, let’s measure reach.” Then we’d stand side by side and reach our arms up, and this 6’0" guy would have an equal reach… happened all the time. My head may be higher off the ground, but outstretched arms went the same height…
Look at the NBA (where they are far more concerned with height/reach) and you hear of guys being “Long” which means they “play taller than they are” due to elevated arm length. I’m perfectly okay putting Crabtree in that class of player in the NFL. T.O. is that kind of player. I’ve heard Micheal Jenkins is 6’6" or some such (listed 6’4"), and is NOT that kind of player.
Remember slam dunk champ Dee Brown? He was about 6’1" as well, and his reach was through the roof. That and explosiveness, not the extra 2 inches a guy like Rodney Monroe (SG from NC State, same era) had on him from toe to head, made for a successful career.
So, no. I don’t have a problem with the “loss” of 2 inches. Guy can play, and he plays big, and he makes plays. That’s what I want!
I'm kinda sad Shanahan is gone... I liked the Donkeys being 8-8 every year...
by Tyler Jorgensen on Feb 23, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
Yes.
His talent is far too great to fall out of the top 5. I think the injury/height issue is tremendously overblown and its a positive because maybe the Rams won’t draft him ahead of us.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 23, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
I have warmed up to the idea of drafting a DE
I think the players who would be the biggest help to our team would be Brian Orakpo, or Everette Brown. We really need to put pressure on the QB. I do not buy into the idea that you do not draft a DE just because you have in recent years. You do not pass on the oportunity to help your team the most, just because you have spent picks there in the past, keeping in mind those picks were a late first round and a third round. If we were the Lions and drafting another WR, then I would be upset, but this is not even close to that scenario.
I am aware that you do not draft for need, but it is seeming that the two DE’s are going to be the highest rated players on the board when our time comes.
Disclamer, I have not made up my mind yet. This is how I am leaning right now, tomorrow may be back to Crabtree or Jason Smith. This has been a tricky draft for me, when it should not due to just needing to pick a top four, but it is tricky figuring out who those top four are.
Personally, I feel drafting a DE would be as useless as drafting another LB.
DEs simply do not produce as rookies. Most don’t even as sophomores. Everette Brown or Orakpo will just be expensive deadweight either behind Kerney Tapp, Jackson, and perhaps Atkins, or ahead and blocking the former three’s development. I think now is the time Tapp and Atkins will start showing more consistency, and the best case scenario is Kerney’s back and good for another 8+ sacks. Over the long term, DEs aren’t terribly pressing unless you find a once-in-a-lifetime talent like Julius Peppers. Better off getting a cornerstone franchise player like an QB, WR, OT, or perhaps CB.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 23, 2009 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
Almost the same thing can be said about WRs though.
In general, it takes until their third year before they can produce. Or at least that was the rule of thumb a while back.
Indeed.
It boils down to whether you think Crabtree is a special prospect who can become a superstar or not.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 23, 2009 9:13 PM PST up reply actions
And I may get some flak for this, but I'd rather have
a potentially elite WR than a potentially elite DE, though I can see why some would disagree.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 23, 2009 9:15 PM PST up reply actions
Why?
I could see that WR is somewhat individualistic, in that a superstar WR may be harder to take out of a game than blocking schemes, additional blockers and protections helping against a superstar DE. It seems that you could just bring pass-rushing specialists in on key downs or rush certain guys to have the desired effect in light of being w/out an elite DE. That is harder to do w/ the WR position. An interesting debate, I suppose.
Indeed.
It’s easier to neutralize a DE. Send a TE out to help the tackle and it’s very, very challenging for the DE to get a sack. Even if a guard chips in, it’s still harder for DTs to take advantage of the situation against a single-block.
Meanwhile, with an elite WR, you’ve always got secondaries trying to blanket him with double-coverage at all times, if not triple on occasion, which immediately opens up things for other WRs. This is why you see marginal talents like Steve Breaston rack up impressive yardage. If the secondary lifts double coverage, the elite WR can burn you on any given play.
Though there’s some minor flawed logic to this, it mostly holds true and I can go into more detail after lunch. __
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 24, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
So you think giving up a first and two thirds for a DE is a good deal
but think they’re easily neutralized by a TE?
You can scheme against any individual player on a team and the risk/reward is the same regardless of position. If you double team a DE or a WR you’re opening up opportunities for other players.
Precisely. Each extra resource you commit to stopping a DE
is a resource that could be spent elsewhere. The same is true with double coverage on a WR, or in some cases spying the QB.
Understandable.
Does that mean that all these ‘resources’ are weighted equally by position they’re being spent on? I’m not suggesting I have the answer. It is an interesting topic. Essentially, we are arguing an infinite topic. Does ‘elite WR’ trump ‘elite DE’. How the heck can we answer that? Many variables. I’d like to think that the resources would be less to neutralize an elite DE than such WR talent. Who’s great impact is more easily reduced or taken advantage of?
My personal opinion...
…is that having a truly ELITE WR, i.e. a top three or four guy, is one of the easiest ways to make a mediocre team deadly. Look at Arizona and Fitz (a tired story, I know), whereby they really don’t have that much talent on offense and yet managed to put up a zillion points with Fitz entering his confident prime.
None of the WR’s we have are going to achieve that status, though Branch when healthy is a great WCO weapon. Should Crabtree turn into the next Fitz/Moss/Steve Smith, it would mark an incredible change in our offense. When was the last time we just tossed up a ball on a big play and our WR pulled it down between three guys?
As for DE, we don’t really know what we’ve got, but there’s a lot of youth and a lot of potential. What with Kerney still being here, bringing in a Brown is going to leave one or two of those kids hanging without a lot of time on the field. Of course, and this is what I find most interesting, John has said that there’s the possibility of moving one of those youngsters inside. Can LoJack start at DT?
Arizona with Fitz lost to the Steelers with Harrison and Woodley
The Pats with Randy Moss lost to The Giants with Tuck, Umenyiora, Strahan, etc. Seattle was able to completely scheme out Smith in the NFC Championship game in ‘05. Elite wide receivers are great, and I’d be as happy as anyone to see the Hawks pick Crabtree, but it certainly doesn’t somehow trump the defensive end spot.
As far as how he’d fit in with LoJack, Tapp, Kerney and Atkins I see that as a really exciting problem to have. It wouldn’t be like signing Javon Haye and having him block one of the young guys behind him, Everette Brown looks every part the phenomenally talented passrusher that a team can’t have too many off. Having too many young, talented lineman doesn’t seem like much of a problem to me.
'Out-scheming Smith' should come with an asterisk.
We were dedicating an LB to jam him at the line, a CB to immediately take over, and a safety always up top for help. With that many resources given to one person, it’s a testament to the gameplanning that’s needed to try to stop a receiver of that caliber. It’s also testament to how terrible Delhomme is and his inability to throw to anyone other than Smith.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 24, 2009 5:57 PM PST up reply actions
true, BUT
I’d say that said Pats and Panthers teams were – overall – MUCH better than last years’ Cards team, and as such didn’t benefit as much from having that game-changing receiver.
My point is that a phenomenal WR makes an average team instantly dangerous. Arizona can score on almost every play just by flinging the ball downfield, even without ANY running game. Can a DE do this?
Sack and a fumble, force a QB to make a bad throw...
I’m a little surprised that the importance of defensive line play is being downplayed so much.
Also, this is all getting way too simplified
Football is a team sport. Andre Johnson can change a game on one play, no doubt. But he has to have a QB deliver the ball, the QB needs time to throw the ball, other recievers are running routes that clear portions of the field, etc. Defensive ends can force a sack and a fumble, but they need coverage behind them, other players on the line to take the attention of blockers, blitzers that force running backs to make decisions, etc. Some basic Football 101 stuff is getting ignored by looking at these players/positions in a vacuum.
actually THAT simplifies it...
…by saying that every position is equally dependant on contributions from other players, which is exactly the opposite of what I’m saying.
But there’s no way to really “prove” it. I can only really use examples of how dominant WR’s can make a humongous, humongous difference to a mediocre offense: Cassel looks great with Moss, Steve Smith has made Delhomme look great for years, Holt and now Fitz make Warner a record-breaker.
These kind of guys are the kind of guys that require double or TRIPLE coverage… you have to re-adjust your entire defense because any ball within ten yards of them will get hoovered up.
Sure, there have been defensive ends that require double or triple blocking. But they’re only really game changers on passing downs (WR’s are always a threat, because the D doesn’t know what the playcall is). How many ends require the entire offense to restructure its system? Not very many, maybe one every ten years.
And is Brown even that guy? If not, is he that much better than the ends we have? Because I think Crabtree is “that” guy as a WR, and is going to be vastly better than any WR we have on the roster.
This is what I was trying to say.
I’m a terrible communicator.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 26, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
I could see it.
When you neutralize an elite DE with a double team, its still very hard for a DT to capitalize and come off with a sack even against a single block versus a guard/center, unless you have a really good one. When you’re doubling a WR, any other given WR with a decent set of hands can land you a first down.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 24, 2009 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
You make it sound like it's a miracle anytime a team gets a sack
And I still don’t understand how you can support the Jared Allen trade while thinking so little of DE’s.
I didn't realize Allen also cost 2 third rounders.
I was under the incorrect impression that they gave up a first and a late round pick or something, the details were unclear to me. All I’m trying to point out that in relative terms, a reception is much, much easier to achieve than a sack. Having an excellent/elite WR facilitates many receptions. Having an excellent/elite DE might add up to an extra sack every couple of games.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 24, 2009 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
Your probably right Fearless
Although I can’t deny, Orakpo looked pretty great running in the 4.6’s.
Let's go.
Not saying him and others aren't fine football players with futures in the NFL.
But not necessarily what I’d say we need, especially with a pick as crucial as this. Of course, we could all hope for a trade-down and throw all this out the window and kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Feb 23, 2009 6:43 PM PST up reply actions
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