Houshamazood: The Scouting Report
In lieu of tape-watching, which I wish I had time to do tonight on Seattle's newest receiver, I asked a friend for his take. Former NFL scout Tom Marino helped build the Greatest Show on Turf that Seattle fans hated so much -- specifically, he scouted Drew Bennett for the Rams and talked Martz & Co. into Marc Bulger, who Tom had scouted when he was with the Saints. Tom goes back far enough to have worked with Mora the Elder, and keeps his eye sharp enough to know all about James L. as well. Here's his short take on Houwshamazilli:
He was a real (word that rhymes with Masspole) in high school and JuCo, but hasn't been a problem since (that I know of anyway). They were barely able to get him into Oregon State based on his academic standing. He is exactly how you described him (an inside receiver in a queen set). He has been a successful #2 for most of his career, but on a winning program he is a three. He mis-matches inside defenders (nickel backs) and is also an effective red zone receiver.
Doug, I don't think he runs like he used to, but last season I still thought he was able to separate vertically. He also adjusts to the deep ball well. He has never been a nifty guy after the catch, but he has strong hands, is experienced and can catch on contact.
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Sorry...
Queen set is three-wide. Kings is four.
And I would basically agree that Housh still has enough to be a great #2. Question is whether the Seahawks will get their money’s worth if he’s the guy defenders take away first.
A surprisingly underwhelming assessment.
I think Housh’s production over the last 4-5 years contradicts a lot of it, too. First of all, the guy HAS been the #2 on a winning program (2005). Secondly, he’s been a productive chain-mover against outside corners his entire career — he may be a mismatch against nickel backs (what good receiver isn’t?) but he’s been getting it done every year primarily against #2 corners. The fact that his team has sucked doesn’t make that easier, it makes it harder. On a winning program, one would expect him to get open MORE at the #2 spot, not less, due to better talent surrounding him.
No argument that he’s slowing down a bit and that he’s not real nifty on the run. I don’t think he’s a pure #1, but he seems like the definition of a high-end #2. If they want to run him out of the slot in 3-wide sets and put Burly outside, I’m OK with that.
Best commercial ever (and only commercial that should ever air)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs1N5NYyb24
I think it’s “T.J. Houshamazode” though. Lock it up.
So, between a healthy Deion Branch (ahhahahahaha)
hahahah
ha
cries
so, between a healthy Deion Branch and Houshmandzadeh, is that sort of a D-Jack/K-Rob “not #1s but great together” combo?
According to Matt Williamson re: TJ
(via Sando)
He fits the West Coast offense well. You’ll see quick-timing routes. He catches everything. He catches the ball away from his frame, uses his body well. He is more quick than fast, but he does a nice job on those short-to-intermediate timing routes that the West Coast offense thrives on. It’s a good fit.
Deion Branch and Nate Burleson should be happy in the end. They will benefit more. John Carlson, too. If i am the defensive coordinator for the other team, I am going to take away Houshmandzadeh first and that could open up those other guys. He is now their most dangerous guy, but not a true No. 1. I think there are 12 to 15 true No. 1s.
Branch becomes a heck of a No. 2 if healthy. Burleson becomes a heck of a No. 3 and Carlson, if he can go against outside linebackers all day, should do well. They are both over-the-middle, red zone guys. They will work similar areas of the field, Carlson from the inside and Houshmandzadeh from the outside.
I am afraid
that this is going to be a repeat of the Branch situation, where a guy is brought in under the pretense of being a dominant #1 WR and given a boatload of cash and then it turns out he is just a consistent contributor not a superstar. I think we definitely overpaid for our two top WRs and I just hope Matt can stay healthy enough to make them almost worth it.
I also don’t like that this guy says Housh has “never been a nifty guy after the catch” and that he has lost some speed. YAC has been critical to the success of our offense, which I understand will not be changing much.
Sorry for being a downer but that’s how I see it.
The Branch Situation.
I totally disagree about Branch on several fronts.
1 You claim we brought in Branch under the pretense he would be a “dominant #1”. I don’t like the word #1 or #2, etc. for receivers in general because I think it is meaningless. In different offenses receivers who play different roles may or may not be the most productive. If by #1 we mean most productive receiver on the team, best receiver on the team, or the one defenses care the most about, ALL OF THESE are totally extrinsic to the players talents and role. I will respond to your second claim about “dominant”, a term I think I understand:
I don’t think we brought in Branch thinking he would be dominant. I think we thought he would be very good. Consider these elements about the Branch deal:
1) He was a proven commodity, yet still only 27 at the time.
2) We traded what we thought would be (and ended up pretty much being) a very late first round pick.
3) We needed WR help on a team we thought could contend, it was worth overpaying a bit to get someone for that season right away.
A 1st round pick will never get you a dominant player in their prime. It takes your entire draft to land such a trade, if it is possible at all. Very few first late first rounders become dominant players. Remember also that the draft gets you the age 21-25 seasons (typically), not the coveted 25-30 years. Recall the Roy Williams trade:
2 I also disagree with your claim that Branch has only been a “consistent contributor”. I would say he has been an very good contributor who has not been on the field enough for everyone to be happy about the trade in retrospect. On a per game played basis, Branch, as a seahawk, has averaged 55 yards and .36 touchdowns a game. Over a 16 game season that would be 880 yards and 5.6 touchdowns. Take into account that I am including all the games he went out of with an injury as well as 2006 where he was thrown into the fire mid-season, and these are actually quite good numbers. The seahawks system has never been good to receivers numbers because we spread the ball around a lot. A lot of teams don’t consistently throw to FB’s, TE’s, let alone 4-5 receivers.
That said, the Branch injury situation has been unfortunate. The bright side is that he played very well at the end of last year and showed that he still had the athleticism and speed. Branch will turn 30 early next season and if there is one guy in the league who is due for a late career surge it is Deion. I think Deion and TJ are a very good combo.
Back to TJ. I don’t think this #1 or #2 business is meaningful. He has a very good chance to be our most productive wide receiver. I have thought that over the last couple of years he has looked like one of the best receivers in the game and I am excited to bring that to Seattle. I am excited to have a physical receiver on our team. The price was high, but established players that can still compete are always expensive. The deal was in line with what similar aged guys like Plax and Ward got recently, and I would rather have TJ than either of those guys.
I do think this move sort of signals that the organization is looking to contend with a last push from our “old guard”. IF we have healthy Jones/Hasselbeck/Kerney/Branch/etc. (or at least most of those guys), then I would say there is a shot, assuming we draft in a “win now” manner. The good thing is that all the losing last year kept us from needing to play those guys hurt so hopefully they can recover.
Fair enough.
I think the use of #1 or #2 WR can be used as a loose reference point to overall ability and production. It is typically useful in fantasy football, helping to determine a level or breaking point between them an other WRs in a discussion but it’s all related to production/numbers. That allows people to understand the importance of a player from a numbers standpoint in simpler discussions, while typically reflecting a certain role as the ‘featured guy’ on the team.
This is certainly a fallible set of terms, and I see your point. I also agree that in the real world, these terms don’t do much to clarify things. I use those terms, still, out of simplicity or habit. Another example of WR1/WR2 not being useful is the setup in Arizona: Boldin for over half of the year was the #1 WR in all of fantasy football. Most would agree that Fitzgerald could easily be termed the #1 receiver. Both would be WR1s in fantasy football, which is probably the best place to utilize those descriptions.
As far as our team goes, we have been much like the Eagles in perception with regards to our WR corps. No true stud, standout player at the position, but usually several serviceable ones that would be termed #2 or #3 WRs on many teams. As mike said (above), our system doesn’t really discriminate. Another similarity with PHI, the way the ball is spread around there is really no clear ‘number one guy’ (another bad thing for fantasy owners, yet I digress again). There hasn’t been since T.O. for that team. I continue to believe that Koren was the last hope for that, with DJack trying to be that, but better suited as a compliment to a better player. But he did thrive in our system. WRs can thrive in our system (at least our Holmgren-let system as it was).
Again, I think that we have to look at this group as a whole, and probably in football terms with regards to our team. SE, Flanker, Slot, etc. Different packages we’ll run, etc. I think for the sake of discussion, and the fact many of us probably don’t know that stuff at a high enough level to avoid some other terms entirely, prepare for a mixed bag.
Branch is still a very dangerous threat. True, he hasn’t played as much as everyone hopes, but the guy has some special skills. He’s great after the catch and is a smooth, quick athlete with good YAC ability. It would be nice to see his ‘expericence in big games’. One asset in getting him originally that was probably more gimmick and excitement than anything, but important nonetheless was the fact he destroyed another team in the Super Bowl as MVP. Clutch. I still like that about him, too, even though it may be silly.
TJ has the best set of hands this team has seen since Largent, or possibly Joe Jurevicius. I think they’ll compliment each other well.
Finally, I agree that this is a push to try and kick that window open with Matt, et. al for another year (or more). It may work. At least we have some hope for winning this year and the TJ signing is in contrast to ‘full rebuilding mode’. John described how TJ could bridge the gap among some of the team’s changes in coming years, an important consideration. I’m now excited for this year AND beyond . Of course, another defensive turd could wipe that away, but I’m still hopeful for now.
Well...
We gave Branch Reggie Wayne money. We can argue all day about whether he was worth our #1 pick but I don’t think anyone can make an argument that Branch is a Reggie Wayne talent. For the record, 880 yards and 5.6 TDs doesn’t exactly impress me. You say we spread the ball around too much for any WR to be successful, and the same argument was used when we signed him to explain his mediocre stats in New England, but other players have proven it false both places. You take issue with my use of the terms “dominant” and “#1” but don’t touch “superstar” which is what he was paid to be and what he decidedly is not.
As for TJ, he does have the potential to be our most productive WR because Branch and Burleson are both coming off injury and the rest are crap. I am just worried that he is an overpaid Bobby Engram. I don’t see him as a dynamic athlete which is what I think the team needs at the position and worry he is close to the end of his career. But who knows, maybe I’m way off base with these fears.
OK.
I will touch superstar. I don’t think we brought him here to be a superstar. Happy?
I think we brought him here for 880 yards and 5.6 TD’s, whether that impresses you or not. If you think you can trade a single late first round pick for a superstar at age 27 you are dreaming. If you think you can do that when you have a clear lower-hand based on need then you are REALLY dreaming. The injuries were an unfortunate result. Maybe they could or could not have been, to some extent, predicted, but that is a VERY difficult question which looks easy only in hindsight.
I think the Reggie Wayne comparison is not a good one. Wayne was never a free agent. Wayne was extended BEFORE the franchise tag deadline so he couldn’t get as much money as if he would have waited, NOT BEEN FRANCHISED, and visited teams as an FA.
Your arg is weak because
1) This isn’t the same as Branch. Housh is a different type of player. “#1” and “dominant” are not definitive and should not be thrown out there in a remotely sophisticated discussion about roster construction. That deal was also a trade and this is an FA signing.
2) If you are expecting Housh to catch for 1500 yards and 15 TD’s then you will probably be disappointed. This deal’s success does not hinge on specifically whether or not that outcome occurs. Housh fits a real and immediate need for us. The cost was high but for this caliber of player, overpaying a bit can be ok.
Numbers don’t do Housh justice and I expect that to continue for the Hawks. I can see him getting 880 yards and 5.6 TD’s and being a tremendous boost to our team in the process.
by michaelfox99 on Mar 3, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Sounds like Grant Wistrom logic
If Housh puts up 880 yards and 5-6 TDs he was not worth Andre Johnson money no matter what kind of intangible benefit he brings to the team. I understand people are excited about our big signing and I’m not saying he’s a bad player but is he an outstanding player? I’m not so sure, and because of that I can’t agree that “overpaying a bit can be ok.” Actually, I would never under any circumstances agree that overpaying is ok.
I'm getting really tired of everyone complaining our receivers are just good, not great
Sure Branch, Housh and Burleson are all good but WHERE IS OUR #1 RECEIVER!?! Robiskie will only be another good number 2 receiver, he’s trash I say!
I have the same issue with baseball teams "needing" an ace.
Would you rather have Santana and 4 Jarrod Washburns or a staff full of John Lesters?
Let's reach a compromise and
have a staff full of Jarrod Washburns and a token Erik Bedard for 15 games before he gets injured.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Mar 3, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
This should take Crabtree out of the picture
but if Ruskell goes out and picks up a safety in free agency (or thinks he can get one in the third round) and thinks he can get a good tackle at the top of the second round, is it possible to still go with Crabtree? From what I’ve seen of Ruskell, when the DB’s were seen as weak, he drafted Jennings and Wilson early and signed Grant and Russell, overhauled the whole thing. When the defensive line was weak, he drafted Lawrence Jackson, and Tapp and signed Kerney. When the running game was hurting, he signed Wahle, Jones and Duckett. He doesn’t seem like the type of guy that wouldn’t look at the receivers in the same way and throw even more at the position. I’m not crazy about drafting Crabtree, but I’m still not ruling it out.
Who was the #1 WR on the Bengals last year?
You can’t tell me it was Chad Johnson…he was injured and played terrible. I’d like to see some facts around this idea that Housh was the benefactor of looks since Johnson was double-teamed. I’m not buying that argument in 2008.
Yeah, last season was especially impressive considering that...
Ryan Fitzpatrick has a weak arm, and the Bengals offensive line has been steadily getting worse every season. Chad is a true deep-threat, so Fitzpatrick not having the arm or time to get to him negated him anyway. Housh provided a big, solid target for modest gains, and defenses knew that and he still produced.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Mar 3, 2009 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
That shirt is a good color on him.
Welcome aboard Housh!
by michaelfox99 on Mar 3, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
Over Kelly Jennings and Brian Russell, no less:
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
Facial expression and everything.
Man, we need a real strong safety.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Mar 4, 2009 8:06 PM PST up reply actions
Man, he's got some crazy stats form last year
8 for 75 against Indy
12 for 149 against Philly
12 for 146 against New York
It’s going to be nice to have an actual offensive weapon again.
"It's just one big guy against another big guy, both teams know what's at stake. The one of them comes out on top and it feels good."
-Chris Collinsworth, Madden 09
what's going to really suck
is if we pass on crabtree because of this, the bangles draft him with their 6th, and he turns out to be a stud
Yikes.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Mar 4, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions

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