Trade Down Option
I was reading CamonoIslandJQ's post, among others on here, all regarding a possible trade down. I personally am a fan of getting Monroe if he's available at 4, but I am not for Stafford. He's a good talent, and it's difficult passing up a QB, but I feel this is a rare opportunity for us to gather talent for this season and the future.
Anyways, what do you guys think about a trade down with Philadelphia for their two first round picks, I believe the 21st and 28th?
I'm not exactly sure how they would view that offer, but two of their significant needs are OT and WR. The chance of them getting Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe or Crabtree is pretty high.
I somewhat cringe at the thought of giving up the #4 and the ability to draft such a high talent, but two late round firsts might be worth it.
With two late round first, and an early second. We would be in a good position of the draft to gather good talent quickly.
We could address the OL, with Levitre, Unger, maybe Beaty. We could even make a surprise pick of grabbing a Knowshon Moreno or Beanie Wells. And still be able to address WR if need be.
I like the idea of having that many picks that close. It gives us the ability to stockpile talent, rather than go for the one big signing.
What do you guys think?
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Comments
Is this considered fantasy GM'ing?
My apologies to the sites Adimn’s if so…. but here are my two cents worth: I think the value of this draft is in it’s depth and not it’s top end talent. Because of this, stockpiling more picks would suit me just fine.
I do believe that the deal your referring to (I have heard this one as well), is about 300+ trade value points short on the seattle side. Philadelphia might have to up the ante.
by iverson2169 on Mar 26, 2009 12:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
JM correct me if I'm wrong
but I believe Fantasy GMing is more about avoiding posts that involve far fetched trade possibilities. For example, people talking about trading Hasselbeck and Walter Jones for Joe Thomas and the Brown’s 2nd round draft pick (I pulled this trade out of my ass btw). Sure it COULD happen, but it won’t. It’s essentially pointless to talk about, that’s what I believe they are trying to avoid. Impossible pipe dreams.
by Fear on Mar 26, 2009 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the gist of it
Anything too elaborate or far-fetched. Given their need for a tackle, it’s reasonable that Philly might trade picks with Seattle.
by John Morgan on Mar 26, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that trade maybe a third also or a player that can start for us or add depth, CB RB or WR would be worth it in my opinion.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Mar 26, 2009 4:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
IMO
Discussing any trade that has not actually been rumored to be in the works is fantasy GMing. Discussing an FA is less fantasy GMing because the team is always free to pursue that player, and they are usually pretty up front about it anyways (visits). Ditto the draft. Even though the “philly’s two firsts for our #4 overall” is not inherently flawed, there just isn’t any way of knowing whether the Hawks, or philly, are interested. We will sign FA’s and draft players every year so there is some warranted discussion about who they should be, but we may or may not see a trade anytime soon.
Although I am, in general, a fan of trading down for all the reasons touted on this blog (less salary, more chances to strike gold), I can see why keeping the #4 does make some sense. Our offseason thus far has not at all been indicative that this team is looking to make a major overhaul and aim to compete in a few years. We are aiming to compete right now. You can make arguments for us being competitive or not. Regardless, the NFL is not like the NBA where being horrible for a few years can net you a bunch of top picks that will totally change your team. The difference in draft picks between top and bottom teams is much more marginal. The new coaching staff is not going to pass on a chance to have a winning season right now. Although a lot of us are extremely disgruntled with this roster from last year, there is undeniable talent. There are only a couple spots where a rookie would have a chance to start. There is definitely an argument for getting a top talent who could actually occupy one of those spots.
by michaelfox99 on Mar 26, 2009 5:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
there has been one trade out of the top 5 since 2000
its pretty clear that a trade down is by far the best fit for seattle, but any trade speculation that isn’t at least based on rumors is pretty worthless. teams do not want to get stuck with the salaries that top 5 picks require, and know that the drop off in talent is small relative to the financial investment.
by cro-mag! on Mar 26, 2009 7:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
trade down is a strategy!
Every team approaching the draft has to have a strategy of how they will proceed. There is a reason why they have the significant time between picks, you can see on TV that they are often on the telephone trying to work trades. I agree that a specific team being mentioned as a trade possibility without some evidence is dreaming a bit, but the concept of listening to offers and making proposals of trades during that time between picks is and has been a successful strategy for many teams in past drafts.
Jim Q.
by CamanoIslandJQ on Mar 26, 2009 8:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
every team takes their full 15 minutes
thats why the first two rounds take all day. pretty sure that every team uses the time to “listen to offers and make proposals of trades.” can’t really imagine any decent GM saying ‘we aren’t listening to offers and we aren’t making any proposals’ during our time. right?
by cro-mag! on Mar 26, 2009 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The team that picks first should just pick quickly.
They usually already have a guy to a contract. I suppose they could be playing a game of chicken with some team that really wants to trade up and pick first, but if that’s not the case and they just haven’t made up their minds yet, they should just pick right away.
by LantermanC on Mar 26, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If both Stafford and Sanchez are available at 4
does that make the pick more valuable? Or if it was just Sanchez would a team that really wanted a QB (like maybe the Jets) be more desperate to trade up to get the last draft-worthy QB?
by LantermanC on Mar 26, 2009 8:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure we discussed this specific scenario in the other fanpost.
"Part, fools!
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by Fearless Frog on Mar 26, 2009 9:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Depth is key
I think that if Smith, Monroe are available they should seriously consider taking them. However, if they are both gone and they don’t like Stafford then they should look at trades.
The main problem I see is that once you get past the top fifteen picks or so the talent pool really doesn’t seem to drop off that much through the next couple of rounds. This will make it hard to drop back for picks (am I mistaken?). I also don’t see Philly giving two firsts for #4 chart or no chart for the same reasons I just stated.
With that said if the Hawks could work a trade with say Philly then I think they should try to dish one of them to someone like the Giants or Green Bay for multiple 2nd or 3rd rounders(granted this is a pipedream).
The way I see it guys like Chung(ss), Robiskie (wr), Unger (ol), Caldwell (c/ol), Hamlin(ss) , Brown (rb) will save money because they’re second and third rounders. They also can contribute right away or just add depth while they develop, if necessary.
by hawkfanjp on Mar 26, 2009 2:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
QB stats to consider
I think if Stafford, or to a slightly lesser degree, Sanchez is available at #4 a trade with a QB hungry team is possible, what we could get in reurn is open to debate. I would hope at the very least we could switch first round position with the trade team and pick up one or more second to forth round picks which would accomplish draft depth for the Seahawks. As to QB’s to consider, I offer the following stats obtained from ESPN.com on two of the QB’s in this draft.
(1) MATTHEW STAFFORD;
CAREER #‘s from 2006-2008;
564-compl. / 987-att. / 7731-yds. / 57.14-compl. / 13.7-yds-per compl. / 51-TD’s. / 33-INT. / 44-sacks / 130.48-Avg. QB rating.
2008- #‘s: 235-compl. / 383-att. / 3459-yds. / 61.35-compl. / 14.7-yds-per compl. / 25-TD’s / 10-INT. / 17 sacks / 153.54-QB rating.
(2) GRAHAM HARRELL:
CAREER #‘s from 2005-2008;
1403-compl. / 2010-att. / 15,793-yds. / 69.8-compl. / 11.25-yds-per compl. / 134-TD’s. / 34-INT. / 51-sacks / 153.25-Avg. QB rating.
2008- #‘s: 442-compl. / 626-att. / 5,111-yds. / 70.6-compl. / 11.56-yds-per compl. / 45-TD’s / 9-INT. / 14 sacks / 160.04-Avg. QB rating.
As pure stats go these #’s would seem to indicate Harrell should receive some significate draft consideration. The most common industry knock on him is that he is a system QB that primarily ran the spread formation and that his total yards are inflated due to after the catch yards.
Here is a quote from his coach:
3/19/2009 – Texas Tech coach Mike Leach insists his quarterback is the best in the NFL draft. I know what you’re thinking, asking a coach about his players is like asking a parent about their children, of course they are going to exaggerate, but Leach’s comments directed toward NFL scouts and coaches was simply too amusing not to share. March 17, Dallas Morning News: Leach, who scoffs at the system-quarterback label, angrily talked about NFL teams’ concern regarding Harrell’s ability to work from under center. “You bring up easily the most pitiful NFL cop-out of all,” Leach said in a telephone interview. “And you can send that message to the whole NFL. Any coach who has ever said or uttered those words or considers that a concern, here’s my message for them: How could you possibly look yourself in the mirror and consider yourself an NFL coach and not be able to teach a guy to run back three steps, five steps and seven steps? I can teach a child that! "Any coach in the NFL who can’t do that ought to be fired!”
It would seem to me that this kid does indeed have som talent and should be well worth a shot with the Seahawks and he should most likely be available mid to late draft.
Jim Q.
by CamanoIslandJQ on Mar 27, 2009 8:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The knock on Harrell isn't just the system at Tx Tech
The vast majority of his passes were very short, underneath, with lots of yards after catch. His arm strength is the single biggest knock on him, something that was glaringly apparent at the Senior Bowl. The scouts don’t like him because they don’t think he can make all the NFL throws. Also, he doesn’t appear to be the brightest light bulb in the pack. I watched one interview and was amazed at how, well, dumb he sounded. I’d rather take a shot with a QB who can at least make all the throws.
by diehard82 on Mar 28, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Harrell CAN make all the throws. I've seen him throw accurate 40-yarders.
He throws the ball farther than you think he does, especially across the middle. Also, in a system with lots of yards after the catch, you should be knocking Matt Hasselbeck for that. Harrell for the most part played in a timing and rhythm offense. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t like to use the term “spread offense” as there are many different ways to employ it, making the term seem too vague. Yeah, his arm isn’t as strong as Stafford’s, but so what? In an offense that stretches the field horizontally, who needs a quarter back with Favre-like arm strength?
As for the Senior Bowl, I wouldn’t use that as your platform for arguing against Harrell. Lots of quarterbacks don’t do very well in that game. You only get 1 week to develop timing with your receivers, and the offense is dummied down, so it’s going to make it harder to succeed.
Let’s not also forget that Harrell played against some pretty good defenses, and he still put up some amazing numbers.
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 28, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta leave it to Texas
Any surprise there?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Mar 28, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My only problem with a trade like that
Is Ruskell’s horrible track record drafting after #20 in the 1st round. Spencer, Jennings, (Branch), Jackson. It says a lot that Branch has had a very rocky and injury filled time here and he’s far and away the biggest success of those 4 players (so far).
The talent at the back of the 1st round isn’t terribly exciting (unless you want to reach a little for Mack, Chung, etc.) Stafford/Sanchez are potential franchise cornerstones that are hard to come by in the later part of the 1st in most drafts, and Crabtree is the kind of talent that is very hard to pass on.
I’m fine with the team trading down, but I think the most I’d be comfortable with trading is 10 spots down. Its been a long time since Seattle has had access to the elite talent at the top of the draft and if we give that up, it should be very worth our while.
by kearly on Mar 27, 2009 6:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade with Philly
There has been a lot of discussion around a possible trade with Philly. Frankly I think while possible, it’s very unlikely. It may hinge on whether they re-sign their RT Jon Runyan, because they have lots of urgent needs, including RB, WR, FS and TE. They lost Tra Thomas to Jacksonville, but signed Stacy Andrews. Andrews has been a RT and LG, but they may be planning on plugging him into LT. If they lose Runyan, they still need a starting OT. While Runyan is in his 13th season, he has 190 consecutive starts and I think he probably stays in Philly. If they lose Runyan, they may covet Monroe enough to trade up for him, but while that would fill their OT need, that would leave them with a lot of other holes to fill in later rounds. In short, they need picks and trading 2 for 1 is counter-productive. While we might like the move (I would), I just don’t see it happening.
by diehard82 on Mar 28, 2009 11:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
More trade options
What about a trade with Cincy? Frankly I think while possible, again it’s very unlikely. They lost Stacy Andrews to Philly and need an OT, but unless they are convinced Monroe will be gone, could get him at 6. In fact, I think if we don’t take Monroe, or trade with another team who covets him, it’s likely Cincy takes him at 6. If we convince them we’re taking Monroe at 4, maybe we can convince them to trade up for him. They also have numerous other needs including DT, OC and OLB, but those can all be addressed in later rounds.
What about a trade with Oakland? They have addressed several urgent needs through FA, including OT Khalif Barnes, but still need WR, FS and DE. No need is greater than OLB. If Aaron Curry falls to 4, I could see them calling with an offer to trade up, but that is very unlikely to happen, and I could see them filling the OLB need early in round 2 with the likes of Larry English, so that trade may just be too expensive for them to swallow.
What about a trade with New England? Forget about it. While they have lots of picks with which to trade, they are in exactly the position they want to be in. Numerous picks in rounds 2-4 to fill all their needs quite nicely. No need that would compell them to trade up to the 4 spot. Not even Aaron Curry.
San Fran? Division rival. The only position of great need is QB. JT O’Sullivan is gone to Cincy, but they picked up Damon Huard. That still leaves Shaun Hill and Alex Smith (with Huard), so despite no clear long-term solution at QB, I doubt they are willing to trade up for either Stafford or Sanchez, and doubt we’d help them out by accomodating such a trade. Sanchez will probably be there at 10 anyway, so if they want him, they’ll likely get him there.
by diehard82 on Mar 28, 2009 12:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"wat?"
San Francisco has needs everywhere besides punter.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Mar 28, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every team has needs
but I’d differentiate between depth needs and needs that warrant a #4 pick who should contribute immediately, or at least be your QB of the future.
by diehard82 on Mar 28, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course you trade down, if you can!
With these ridiculous guaranteed rookie contracts, the risk is way too high compared to possible return. Teams want to trade down…problem is, no teams want to trade up. 4-5 years ago it happened, but not too many teams are so sure that any prospect will pan out for how much they have to commit to the top five picks.
by Hunter40 on Mar 31, 2009 3:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs


















