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Mike Mayock Loves Him Some Mark Sanchez...

...and why you should, too.

Before I get going on this post, I should reveal two biases. I am of the opinion that Mike Mayock of the NFL Network is in the same class as Rob Rang of NFLDraftScout.com when it comes to draft analysis, and most everyone else is riding in the back seat. I like these guys the most because they don't just watch tape -- they also talk like they watch tape. There is an easy familiarity with advanced concepts and individual attributes that comes from digging deep on the research end. Still, they both manage to escape the buzzwords and make it interesting, which is valuable when you're discussing the difference between the 11th and 12th-best nose tackles in a draft class. So, I'm a huge Mayock fan.

In addition, I think that Mark Sanchez will be the best NFL quarterback in this draft class when all is said and done, because of two hesitations teams may have about him. First, that he's only had 16 starts, which could scare off a number of the teams who need a quarterback RIGHT FREAKIN' NOW!!! Second, the thought that because of his non-howitzer arm, he's a system quarterback. This may scare off many teams who want a quarterback that is more "moldable", with a more raw and less intangible skill set, than someone like Matt Stafford. The odds favor Sanchez going to a team that a.) Won't start him right away, barring an act of God; and b.) Will have or develop an offensive system that meets his needs and abilities. The road is littered with quarterback prospects who came to the NFL, only to find that they had the "right key, baby, but the wrong keyhole." (Thank you, Steven Tyler).

Now ... With those two caveats out of the way, I wanted to share a few quotes from Mayock's conference call with the media on April 15. He was asked specifically about Sanchez several times, and here are the highlights:

Star-divide

If they (the Broncos) don't try to get Mark Sanchez I think they're crazy.

Bottom line to me is that if their head coach goes 4-12 with Kyle Orton he probably gets fired this year. If he goes 4-12 with Mark Sanchez he's rebuilding. Okay so the way I look at this is you gave away, there's only six or seven franchise quarterbacks in this league.

Getting rid of one of them, I just don't understand the whole, I don't get the whole thing. But now what do you do, I think you got to go get another one.

And the guy that fits them the best is Sanchez ... an intelligent kid that knows where and when to throw the football. Can pick up the offense quickly and get rid of the football, get it out of his hands. You got an offense that's already set to go as long as Brandon Marshall is back and healthy. And if you can plug in a Sanchez and two years from now he's ready to go. I think you got a chance, so that's a long way of saying that they got to package whatever they have to do in my opinion and go replace Jay Cutler.

And...

I think there are three first round quarterbacks in this draft. I think (Matt) Stafford and Josh Freeman have huge arms, they're both more athletic than people think for their size. And I think they've got tremendous upside.

I think the safest pick is Sanchez.  Sanchez has a very good arm that I would compare his arm to Matt Ryan. And he's got the best accuracy and footwork amongst the three.

I've been very positive on all three of them and I like all three of them. But I wouldn't bang the table for any of them like I did for Matt Ryan last year. Matt Ryan was my number one guy on the board all year long.

But amongst those three Freeman reminds me of Joe Flacco both on and off the field. And I think if I had to pull the trigger in the top 10 pick with a quarterback I would take Sanchez because I would feel like his floor is higher than the other guys.

 

The concept of the high floor may be more important in this draft than any other. With a CBA clusterfrank hanging over the heads of every owner, and the NFLPA seemingly continents away from any sort of rookie cap, the risk/reward aspect is kind of chilling. Teams in the top five may be marooned there because of those costs, and safety becomes a primary requirement. You're less concerned with "upside" than you are specific attributes that transfer to the NFL. At the quarterback position, if you're worried at all about accuracy, or the ability to grasp a pro playbook, or work ethic, or leadership ability, you start to balk.

There are very few questions about any of these things with Sanchez. The character stuff may or may not be a "wed hewwing" (Thank you, Madeline Kahn), but Tim Ruskell said flat-out in his Friday press conference that it wasn't a concern. And if people are already starting to slot Sanchez in with Matt Ryan (in retrospect, perhaps the most franchise-altering first-year quarterback in NFL history), that's pretty huge. People aren't talking about his arm, or his 40 time, or his completion percentage. They're talking about his ability to lead a team when he gets the hang of the playbook.

I have never seen a divide in opinion over a draft prospect that I have over Sanchez. I did an interview a while back with ex-Rams safety Corey Chavous, a noted draft expert who told me that Sanchez is the best quarterback in this draft. He's not the only one. On the other hand, Greg Cosell of NFL Films, who I would put on the Rang/Mayock level of quality when it comes to player eval, thinks that Sanchez is a third-round talent. These are two guys whose opinions I respect, and they're three rounds apart on one player.

Has the divide between tangible and intangible ever been so great?

3 recs  |  Comment 144 comments

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My jaw dropped when I read the first paragraph

because I thought John Morgan wrote this.
Great piece Doug, Sanchez is my favorite guy in this draft as well. If we go QB, I hope we pull the trigger on him.

by LantermanC on Apr 18, 2009 5:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This is a very good point.

I didn’t think of this.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 18, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd. Very well said.

Seattle: Where the sun coming out or snow falling takes up 20 minutes of a 1 hour local news broadcast.

by SSreporters on Apr 18, 2009 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would this have been the correct move?

We’d have a lot of cap space, and possibly crappy receivers for Sanchez?

by LantermanC on Apr 18, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be the correct move because a true rebuilding process

requires commiting to a youth movement (no matter how unpleasant the short term results are).

Why surround Sanchez with WR’s who will be approaching their mid-30’s by the time he’s coming into his own as QB? It’s better to bite the bullet and focus on getting WR’s from the ’09 (and beyond) draft onto the field.

Branch, Burleson, and (perhaps) TJ were brought in to get this team to a Super Bowl. Drafting Sanchez puts an end to that dream (in the short term). As such, the skill positions on offense should reflect that change in philosophy.

Darrell Jackson and Koren Robinson jumped out of the gates pretty fast in their careers. The same goes for Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal. And as great of a safety blanket as a veteran WR like TJ would be, a young QB’s best friend is the TE, and we have arguably the best young TE in football in Carlson. Give Sanchez enough time to learn the position, adequate pass protection, a viable running game, and he should be able to make a passing attack featuring Carlson and young (but experienced) WR’s work.

And what’s wrong with cap space? A rebuilding team should be focusing on building through the draft. Again, there are no short cuts if you’re going the rebuilding route.

I like Sanchez, but I hope we draft a player who can come in and contribute right away. At least we’d be adhereing to a clear cut philosophy: win now.

by Culter on Apr 18, 2009 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not quite sure I see your logic

The desire to be competitive in 2009 should not be at odds with the desire to stockpile talent towards the future. It is possible to do both. We don’t need to blow up the entire team in order to commit to a full rebuilding process. Who else goes then? Locklear? Tatupu? Hill? Mebane? Everyone on the team who has been in the NFL for more than two years?

I also disagree with your need to draft someone who can contribute right away. Just about every rookie is going to face a steep learning curve and may not be ready to be a major contributor to either offense or defense.

Why does drafting Sanchez mean that we are punting on the chance to go to a Super Bowl this year? Is the 4th pick in the draft the last thing we need to put us over the hump? I would strongly disagree if that is your assessment of the team.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 18, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Winning and rebuilding don't go hand in hand.

But if Ruskell does try to merge the two concepts, the best way to pull it off is by drafting a raw but promising QB with a late first day or early second day pick. Drafting Sanchez with the 4th pick signals that the Seahawks are more concerned with the future than the present. As such, why not commit to the future from the outset?

My version of a committed rebuilding process would entail cutting loose high priced/injury prone veterans like Branch, Burleson, Wahle, Grant, Russell, and Kerney. Young players like Tatupu, Hill, Mebane and Locklear would obviously still have bright futures with the team. As I said before, I would not have pursued a high priced free agent WR in his 30’s like TJ. Again, it would be a painful rebuidling process, but one that would probably pay off three years down the road.

I noticed you used the word competitive. Attempting to field a competitive team is very different from trying to field a winning team with Super Bowl aspirations. A team with Super Bowl aspirations doesn’t have the luxury on paper of using their first round pick on a guy who isn’t going to play.

I don’t think the Seahawks need to draft a rookie who can become a major contributor right away. Very few rookies take the league by storm in their first year. But they do need a guy who can contribute in some facet of the game—be it as a situational player or on special teams. As Ruskell himself said yesterday, if they don’t go QB, they intend to draft a player who will have an impact on the field right away. That’s easier said than done, but those are the expectations for any non-qb we draft in round one.
   
I’m not suggesting that the 4th pick in the draft has the potential to put us over the hump in our pursuit of a Super Bowl. I think a better way to look at it is in terms of whether or not we’re putting the best possible team on the field. If we draft Sanchez, our collection of on-the-field talent in ‘09 would be weaker than a Seahawks team that drafted a player who could actually contribute.
   
I may be in the minority on this one, but I just want Ruskell to draw a line in the sand and pick a side. Reload or rebuild. Don’t get overly ambitious and a fight a war on multiple fronts.

by Culter on Apr 19, 2009 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very well said.

That’s my issue in Risk sometimes…trying to fight in too many directions at once.

by cashless on Apr 19, 2009 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you serious?

It would be better to draft a situational player who contributes on special teams than a potential franchise quarterback? Really?

I don’t think the facts of what we would get bear out your argument, regardless of the fact that we have a few other picks than the #1 to help give us some special teams contributors. If you are saying we need someone who can somewhat contribute, I don’t think that will dramatically affect the quality of the team we put on the field or dramatically affect the win-loss numbers. For example, I don’t think a 700 yard Michael Crabtree is going to give us multiple wins over the combination of Branch/House/Burleson/Carlson in our passing game. Now, Crabtree would affect it considerably in year two, but we’re talking rebuilding then at that point, aren’t we?

Turnover in the NFL is fast enough that you rarely need to hit a huge rebuliding point in the way you do in baseball. Take the Dolphins for example last year, who brought in the dreaded veteran QB instead of fully committing to the youth movement and fought a war on multiple fronts. They also made the playoffs.

I also disagree that drafting Sanchez says we are more concerned with the future than the present. That may be your interpretation, but I would not say it becomes the ironclad view. When you have the opportunity to draft a worthy QB successor, you take it. I would not say the Packers were rebuilding when they drafted Aaron Rodgers, they did still have Favre (soap opera notwithstanding), but they had the #2 QB in the draft drop to them and they took the opportunity. I think drafting Sanchez (or Stafford, for that matter) can also say that although the team is committed to winning in 2009 (through signing Housh, freaking getting healthy) they are also committed to winning in the future. I don’t think Ruskell needs to pick a side. There are too many positions on a football team to pick a side. You can’t draft a starting 11 after a QB. Those are called expansion teams. They do poorly (see: Cleveland). You have to have a mix of veterans and younger players.

I don’t think the Seahawks are going to win the Super Bowl next year (one can always hope), and I definitely don’t think the #4 pick in the draft is the last piece in the puzzle. Because of that, I think this “pick to win now” attitude doesn’t really matter in the scheme of how it would literally affect the 2009 team.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just as a point of note.

The Dolphins drafted a player who helped them rebuild as well as reload. Jake Long vastly improved that O-line immediately while giving them youth at the position. Sanchez wouldn’t help us in the slightest for the first two years.

by SeaTownBlueDevil on Apr 19, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean you can rebuild and reload at the same time?

Wow… that almost appears to be totally my point. Sometimes you are able to do that with one draft pick, which would be great. Most times it has to be spread around.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand your point,

I was just referring to your comment about picking a “potential franchise quarterback” not relating to the example you used about the Dolphins.

by SeaTownBlueDevil on Apr 19, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotcha. I see now.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You make it sound like I said

the Seahawks would be better off drafting a situational player who contributes on special teams over a franchise QB. I didn’t.

Any player that they select at #4 will have franchise player expectations hoisted on them. The key difference is that if we select a perceived franchise caliber WR, OT, LB, or DE, they’ll be able to contribute right away.

If we assume the Seahawks are a playoff team in 2009 (BIG if) it becomes less a case of win-loss numbers (no one rookie is going to do heavy lifting in that department) and more about a handful of individual plays that may or may not be made in a playoff game. I’ll leave Curry out of this debate because he’d be more than a situational player. But let’s say we draft Orakpo. He wouldn’t have to start or even be on the field for the majority of the defensive snaps to change the outcome of a playoff game with a timely sack. Crabtree, like most rookie WR’s, would probably struggle for most of the year. But it’s not a stretch to view him emerging as a devastating red zone threat by the time the post season rolled around. I remember a green DJ Hackett consistantly drawing pass interference calls in 2005. I’m sure Crabtree could do the same against overmatched backup CB’s. Can you put a price on the value of a big pass interference call in a playoff game?

I actually think Parcells has fully commited to a youth movement in Miami. Outside of Porter and Pennington and a few members of their secondary, the core of their football team is young. And I never once suggested that the Seahawks should cut Hasselbeck loose. I’m very much in favor of utilizing the “dreaded veteran” QB until an heir can be found.

I’m glad you brought up Aaron Rodgers. Guys like Rodgers, Chris Spencer (we drafted him to sit a year), and Kevin Kolb (36th pick, but the Eagles first pick of the draft) make for an interesting discussion. It can be said that all three teams were still in “win now” mode and not rebuilding when they made these picks. All three teams eventually found themselves in the Super Bowl (Seahawks) or the NFC title game (Eagles last season, Packers the year before that). The question is…Did they shoot themselves in the foot by using high draft picks on players who weren’t going to contribute right away?

I would argue that if the Seahawks, Packers, and Eagles somehow knew before their respective drafts that they would make it to the NFC title game (or beyond), they would have drafted differently. Obviously that kind of knowledge is an impossibility. I’m just curious if you would argue that they’d still draft players who wouldn’t play if they knew that they were about to embark on a deep playoff run.

Finally, I never said that the Seahawks should gut their entire offense and draft a “starting 11.” If we draft Sanchez, we’d have youth on our side at most positions on offense. Big Walt, Wahle, Branch, and Housh are really the only key guys who don’t have age on their side. If we remove Housh from the above list, that would leave Ruskell with the task of replacing three players. That’s a perfectly obtainable objective. I question the wisdom of the Housh signing if Sanchez is our guy, but there’s no reason to think that he can’t have a Bobby Engram type role on this team when Sanchez takes over.

by Culter on Apr 19, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There seem to be an awful lot of assumptions built into your thesis

You apparently acknowledge that there is little chance of who we draft being a key contributor. That’s good. So now we’re left with guesswork in regards to the end of the season and playoff games?

“Maybe Orakpo gets a key sack” or “Maybe Crabtree gets a key completion” in a playoff game. I’m not entirely sure if that’s a good drafting strategy, or what I would even call something that should even be more than a minor question in drafting a player. Do you draft a player based on the minute possibility that he could be involved in a key play in a theoretical playoff game? I think the answer is definitely “no” on that point.

Also… as you wrote, “I don’t think the Seahawks need to draft a rookie who can become a major contributor right away. Very few rookies take the league by storm in their first year. But they do need a guy who can contribute in some facet of the game—be it as a situational player or on special teams.” I don’t believe someone who can contribute in a minor way situationally or on special teams in 2009 is a good reason not to draft a franchise quarterback. Legitimate concerns over Stafford and Sanchez individually are good reasons.

If you don’t want to draft Stafford or Sanchez, that’s fine. There are good reasons which have been discussed before on this blog as to why each carries risk. But your thesis of assumptions and risk in 2009 (based on apparently just the #4 pick) isn’t what I would call a good way to draft the best player available at #4 who can help the Seahawks win over the longest period of time.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're ducking questions and repeating yourself.

1) This is the second time you’ve clung to the theory that it would be a mistake to draft someone who can contribute in a minor way in 2009 over a franchise QB. I can’t make this any more clear: Any player the Seahawks draft with the 4th pick will be viewed as a franchise player. Stop trying to spin this as a case of whether or not to to draft the minor contributor or the franchise QB. Just because a player can contribute in the short term doesn’t take away from his long term upside.

2) The draft is all about assumptions and guesswork. Ruskell has to ask himself whether he’ll ever be in position to draft a QB this high again. He has to be honest with himself and decide if this Seahawks team has another playoff run in them. If that answer is yes, he has to decide if the team can afford to draft a guy who isn’t going to help them in the playoffs.

by Culter on Apr 19, 2009 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're ducking questions and repeating yourself

1. Which matters more, a franchise linebacker (aka Patrick Willis) or a franchise quarterback? So if I can draft a) a possible franchise QB or b) a possible franchise LB, which would be a better overall pick for the franchise? Sure, both can turn out to be franchise players, and that’s just great. Really wonderful. But a franchise QB is just simply much more valuable to team success than a franchise LB. Hence the droppage of franchise LB Julian Peterson.

What crushed is trying to tell you is that your franchise player (Crabtree) would not be as valuable in the long term as his franchise player (Sanchez for the sake of the argument). In addition, your main argument about getting a Crabtree or an Orakpo is the initial contribution for THIS YEAR (all caps to make sure you understand your own argument). What crushed is thus stating is that those individuals would not MAKE A LARGE CONTRIBUTION this year, or not enough at the least to push us over the hump to make it to a Super Bowl. Mario Williams is a flipping amazing DE, and he was terrible his rookie season. Larry Fitzgerald was good, not great, his rookie season.

This brings me to your second question…..

2. Regardless of whether that question (can we make the playoffs) is a yes, the REAL question is… can this team win a Super Bowl? Answer: probably not. I mean, yay, 9-7 and in the playoffs again! Wham-o! What Ruskell would do with a Sanchez/Stafford pick instead is BOTH present a team with the potential to win some games now (signing Housh and all that) and build for the potential to win a Super Bowl (with a Pro-Bowl caliber starting QB).

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on Apr 19, 2009 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Your second point seems to contradict itself.

If we’re not going to be in a position to draft a QB this high again, wouldn’t you want to grab one while you can? If you think we’re going to make the playoffs next year, or even get close, we won’t be nearly high enough in the draft to get a quality 1st round QB next year. And JM already showed that if you want a decent chance at getting a franchise QB, you need to grab one in the 1st round.
And we need a backup QB that has a chance to be a franchise QB. Because Matt probably isn’t lasting more than 2 years.

by Fear on Apr 19, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way, I sure hope Ruskell is honest with himself

“I’m a great person. People like me. I’m a wonderful GM. My hair smells like morning dew. When people tell me I look a tad overweight, they are simply reminding me why I would never draft them.”

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on Apr 19, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And round we go...

As I stated above, your argument seems to continue to revolve around hypotheticals regarding playoff scenarios. That continues to be an unproveable assertion, which is what I would believe to be the case regarding the Seahawks, Eagles, and Packers in your above scenario/question (hint: question also answered above).

1. Any player the Seahawks draft with the 4th pick will be viewed as a franchise player over the long haul, not over what minimal contributions we receive in the first year or in the 2009 postseason (since this is apparently where you really like going with your hypotheticals). As such, a franchise QB on the bench is more valuable than a fringe contributor in 2009. I can repeat this more if you would like. Perhaps that fringe contributor (now FRANCHISE PLAYER) adds addtional value in the future as well (I sure hope this would be the case, and am somewhat confident about a few of the options there), but considering that your comments have been based more on Stafford/Sanchez vs “MUST WIN NOW PLAYERS” and less on, I don’t know, actual analysis, I haven’t seen the need to bring specific players to mind that I believe would bring good value to the Seahawks in years 2-5 other than QB.

2. The draft is about assumptions and guesswork. There are also good assumptions and bad assumptions. A bad assumption would be asking yourself the question, “Say we were in the NFC Championship game and the opposition was in 3rd and long and potentially this player could get a sack. Should we draft him instead of someone who could potentially help us more in the future?” A good assumption is based on things like facts, arm speed, intelligence, verticals, production on the field.

So yes, I would say that the Eagles, Seahawks, and Packers drafted correctly (although notwithstanding that a couple of those picks… Kolb/Spencer… don’t appear to have been worth the pick in general) by looking to lock down solid positions in the future to keep themselves in contention without wondering about absurd hypotheticals like the value of a pass interference call in a playoff game (which ohmygoshyesofcourseCrabtreewoulddoit).

Honestly, I’m not going to mind if the Hawks draft Crabtree or Everette Brown or several other players. I’m going to believe that they made that decision based on the value that player will have over the long haul, not because they’ll be an awesome minor contributor who could potentially rock it for one play in January.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Your argument is based on just one draft pick...

Getting Sanchez or another QB with the #4 overall pick does not mean that the Seahawks are looking towards to the future. They can still get guys in the later rounds who can come in right away and play, and wait for it: Win now.

The Seahawks have the personnel to win right now, provided that Matt Hasselbeck stays healthy, which actually is what gives them the luxury of picking a QB to groom for the future.

Weez the juice!!

by Carl Shinyama on Apr 19, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said

If we select Crabtree, he will not start.

If we select Sanchez, he will not start.

If we select an OT, he will most likely play guard.

If we draft an OLB, he will start.

If we draft a RB, he may start, and Jones would need to be cut.

If we draft a DE, he will not start, or Jackson will not start.

The only impact player that is guaranteed to “impact” Seattle, from day 1, is Curry.

So, if you are willing to compromise the future to win the SuperBowl now, select Curry.

If Jones cannot play day one, draft a tackle

If Hasselbeck is one hit away, and you’re convinced you can groom a top notch QB, trade up and get Stafford or stay put and get Sanchez.

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on Apr 19, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now, you see, I disagree with this because I think TJ is just as useful to Sanchez.

TJ is definitely a weapon right now with Matt at the helm, we all know that.

However, he would also be a major benefit to Sanchez should he be drafted. Having a dependable, smart veteran WR to go to when the “chips are down” is a huge asset for a rookie QB. I’m assuming that if Sanchez is brought in this year the FO is pretty sure that there’s a possibility that Matt could go down as early as sometime this season, leaving Sanchez to run the offense next year.

Having TJ around to work with not only next year but throughout this year as well will be a massive safety blanket for a young, accurate-type quarterback. He’d almost be like help for the offensive line, in that TJ would always be in the right place at the right time, giving a young and panicky Sanchez someplace to go in times of pocket crisis.

I do, however, see TJ’s acquisition as a sign that Branch and/or Burly could very well be gone as of next year.

by djafrot on Apr 18, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You make it sound like we're doomed to fail if we don't pick an immediate impact player at #4

Very few players, even Crabtree, Curry, or Moreno would make a huge impact in 2009. The Seahawks have already made a few “win now” moves, and covered most of their needs. They have the luxury and freedom to use their #4 as they believe is best even if it has no immediate value.

As far as the WR argument, don’t forget the distinct possibility of drafting WR after the 1st round next week. Robiskie at #37, or Iglesias at #68, or Thomas at #105. Additionally, If Sanchez is implemented appropriately (in the mold of Rivers/Rodgers), the Seahawks would have 1-2 more offseasons to prepare the WR corps for him. I seriously doubt he’d be throwing to a Housh/Branch/Burleson trio in 2012.

And if Sanchez is forced to start earlier than expected, whats the harm of having him throw to veteran WR? The last thing you want is a young QB throwing to WR running the wrong routes or making dumb mistakes.

To me, the WR situation is not something to hold against Sanchez. The team has decent WR right now, and by the time Sanchez starts, there will be ample time to completely solidify the group.

by kearly on Apr 18, 2009 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think we're doomed to fail if our first pick doesn't pan out right away.

That’s play out on the football field.

What I’m concerned with right now is with intent. Specifically, what is Ruskell’s intent? What’s his true vision for this franchise? Win now? Rebuild? Both? My fear is that If he tries for both, he won’t do justice to either of them.

I won’t be surprised if we invest heavily in the WR position next week. But my argument about our WR situation still stands. Our current crop of veteran WR’s will prevent any young WR’s we draft from getting valuable playing time. I don’t have a problem with that if we pass on Sanchez. But if Sanchez is our guy, don’t delay the inevitable. Get the the young WR’s on the field with Hass and they’ll be ready to step up by the time Sanchez takes over. WR’s usually don’t make the “leap” until their third season in the league.

There’s no harm in having Sanchez start his career with veteran WR’s. But the ideal rebuilding process would involve pairing Sanchez with a young (but experienced) group of WR’s who will reach their prime at the same time as Sanchez. Think Manning and Harrison. Hasselbeck and Jackson. Cutler and Marshall. Palmer and CJ & TJ. Ryan and Roddy White. You get the point.

by Culter on Apr 19, 2009 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

For all of Ruskell's said desire to get an immediate impact player at #4 . . .

there doesn’t seem to be one at that spot. Unless we reach for a player, the most likely candidates seem to be Monroe (would sit behind Walter Jones/Locklear), Jason Smith (behind Jones/Locklear), Crabtree (behind Branch, Housh, and maybe Burleson), or Sanchez (behind Hass). Maybe Crabtree has some impact in year one, but based on where he sits in the roster, and the historically low contributions by first year wide receivers, it doesn’t seem likely. I suppose we could also bench Locklear for one of the tackles, but that seems like an auwful lot of money to invest in a Right Tackle.

Now if Curry is there, he could obviously make an immediate impact, but if he isn’t there, would you rather reach for a Wells, Brown, Jenkins, Raji, etc?

No matter who the 4th pick is, it seems like it will be someone who impacts the team 2 to 3 years from now. I would rather that person be a potential elite quarterback. (I’m also hoping that we’re never drafting this high again in the near future.)

Sanchez seems to have skills, and more importantly the work ethic to be a great quarterback in this league. I’d regret seeing him go to another team. I don’t think our #4 pick has anything to do with whether we are only rebuilding or only trying to win now. Based on the players available in that spot, I’m leaning towards trusting Mayock and taking Sanchez.

by HawksFan on Apr 19, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't understand why Sanchez has to throw to people his age

And that makes it the ideal rebuilding process. I think the QB will want to throw to receivers who can get open, regardless of time served in the NFL.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's assume that

Hasselbeck/Wallace prevent Sanchez from playing for the entire ’09 season and nearly all of the 2010 season.

In 2011, TJ would be 34. Branch 32. Burleson 30.

Sanchez doesn’t have to throw to people his age, but do you want him throwing to a 30 year old plus WR corps long since past its prime?

If Sanchez is our guy, we have to make it a point of emphasis to develop young WR’s who will enter (or even maintain) their prime at the same time Sanchez is entering his.

by Culter on Apr 19, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want him throwing to people who will catch the ball.

There’s plenty of time between 2009 and 2011 to draft additional WRs to develop as well. They don’t need to be in the same draft class. There’s also the chance for FA and trade acquisitions in the same timeframe, considering that TJ, Branch, and Burleson were all acquisitions. So no, I don’t think that we would have to draft multiple young project WRs.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Assuming they're still on the roster by then.

That’s plenty of time to get younger. It’s not necessary to do so during this draft. The Seahawks can do so during next year’s free agency and/or next year’s draft.

Also, that’s assuming Sanchez is entering his prime by the time he begins to make his starts in 2011. For all we know, he could yet to be in his prime by then. He’d only be 25 years old by then, and he’d have plenty of time before he reaches his prime.

The great thing about WR’s is they provide a relatively high level of production past the age of 30. I don’t think I’d be worried with at least two of those WR’s, with the exception being Branch, as the primary receivers in 2011, unless their level of production has declined drastically and/or their time off the field is more than their time on the field due to injuries by then.

Weez the juice!!

by Carl Shinyama on Apr 19, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your view is too black / white

The world is never as black and white as you make it, especially with the NFL.

“Full rebuild” or “full win-now” are simply not sustainable personnel strategies in the NFL, and no team operates this way. Turnover in the NFL is so ridiculously high, that teams that don’t draft/sign for the future will suffer from extremely cyclical periods of winning and losing, leading to a fanbase that will never be as loyal as you’d need to run a successful franchise, in terms of making money.

The Hawks, like just about every team in the NFL, has positions that are aging, and positions that around young and fresh. Being a general manager is about balancing these and correctly reading the tea leaves and maintaining consistency with minimal downtime.

QB is a position we MUST address this year or next. Otherwise we’ll suffer from significant downtime at the position, arguably the WORST position to miscalculate.

by Nick Andron on Apr 20, 2009 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Sanchez were to be the starter in 2011

That’s 3 more drafts and two more free agencies to fill out the WR group. If the team drafts Robiskie/Iglesias/Thomas/etc in the later rounds of this draft, that WR would be entering his 3rd NFL season when Sanchez starts. Plus the team could sign a veteran WR between now and then. If the Seahawks have a young, crappy, inexperienced WR corp when Sanchez takes over, its not because they picked Sanchez or lacked opportunity, its because Tim Ruskell displayed incompetence with the WR corp over a 3 year period.

John Morgan said himself, a wise GM never totally builds to “win now” nor does he 100% rebuild. A good offseason should make some moves to help the team improve immediately with other moves that keep the long term future in mind. Drafting Sanchez would fit into a well balanced offseason that fixes the teams immediate holes while addressing a critical long term need. Its not an either/or. Competent GM’s do both. Further, whoever the Seahawks pick at #4 is unlikely to have a major impact as a rookie, so the cost to 2009 is not even that big.

by kearly on Apr 19, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why is this comment rec'd?

Bueller?

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on Apr 19, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm hesitant to go QB in the 1st round, and especially Sanchez.

Mark not only started just 16 games but he is basically the beneficiary of playing in a great system created by Pete Carroll that has produced just 1 good QB out of 3 (that would be Carson Palmer) against amazingly easy opposition in the Pac-10. Anyone who goes to USC can pad their stats just by playing the likes of Wazzu and U-Dub. The 1 Pac-10 team he didn’t destroy was Oregon State. Now the stats may seem solid (18-31, 229 yards, 3 TD and 1 INT), but USC was getting pasted in the first half of that game and after a 3-3 start ended up getting sacked and went 1 for his next 4.

He faced 5 teams in the top 50 in pass defense efficiency in the regular season and his “best game” per se against those teams was a 35-3 win over Ohio State. His lone game in which is efficiency rating was under 100 was against Arizona State, ranked #31. He never stood out in games in which he went against pass defenses that had some form of competency until his Rose Bowl performance against a completely flat Penn State, and USC always beats Big Ten teams.

I’m neither a fan or Sanchez nor Stafford, but I’d take Stafford over Sanchez in a heartbeat because he has faced tougher competition and had statistically performed well.

Drafting Sanchez makes no sense considering the offseason moves Timmay has made. As John said, “You Say Mark Sanchez, I say Ryan Leaf”.

Seattle: Where the sun coming out or snow falling takes up 20 minutes of a 1 hour local news broadcast.

by SSreporters on Apr 18, 2009 7:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't even know where to start.

Are there other college QB systems producing more than 1 out of 3 NFL QBs? I can’t imagine there are many. Even worse, that “stat” completely ignores two things a) the small sample size and b) the fact Matt Leinart hasn’t had much of a chance to show what he can do—seriously, how many 1st or 2nd year QBs wouldn’t get beat out by a future Hall-of-Famer (Warner)?

If the Pac-10 is so “easy”, how come nobody outside the Pac-10 can beat USC? 26-1 in their last 6 years playing out of the conference (18 of those over BCS teams—many on the road). Is it as tough as the Big XII or SEC? Probably not. It’s better than every other conference in college football. I’d also add that Mark Sanchez started 16 games and all of those starts are against BCS teams. No FBS teams like Central Michigan. No FCS teams like Georgia Southern. The schedule strength between Georgia and USC just isn’t that different, if at all.

Did he play well against Oregon State? Not particularly. Matt Ryan lost (and didn’t play particularly well) against a horseshit Maryland team in 2007. Doesn’t seem to have affected his pro prospects or career (at least to this stage). And the fact Sanchez had a 1 for 4 stretch against Oregon State falls under the “who cares” category. It’s meaningless.

Coming out “flat” seems to be the new euphemism for “you got lucky.” I don’t know how you could make a judgment that Penn State was “completely flat.” I can tell you from watching the game they got their asses completely kicked up and down the field.

by DoubleB on Apr 18, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's not a fair comment

There aren’t many schools that CONSISTENTLY produce NFL (or near NFL) caliber QBs. Most are lucky to have one in 10 or 20 years.

by Nick Andron on Apr 20, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed...

well put…I feel the same way…This team is built to win now and Sanchez defeats that purpose. We need to add an offensive weapon with that 4th pick either Crabtree/ Wells/ or Moreno with that 4th pick. We are missing weapons…TJ is a nice piece to add to the puzzle but he ain’t the center piece. We need to stop thinkin about Sanchez and think about 3 WR sets with TJ/Crabtree/ Branch with Burelson being the 4th WR and recovering.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 18, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You believe that Wells or Moreno are worth the 4th pick?

Interesting. I’m not sure I see it that way.

Crabtree would be the only player available at the #4 spot who one could consider an offensive weapon that could potentially (and I stress potentially) contribute next year, but it would be foolish to assume that any player we draft will immediately play a prominent role in success. If it happens, great, but the learning curve is harsher than that.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 18, 2009 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kyle Orton is not even a bad QB, so I can't envision Denver going 4-12.

Or maybe he is, but I still think Cutler is a system QB and Orton’s numbers will be at least competent.

And I highly disagree with the comment about Sanchez having the highest ceiling. That’s Stafford, in my view.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 18, 2009 7:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Higher floor,

not ceiling.

Rock on Bob Engle

by aws on Apr 18, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Orton will beat expectations this year

Name a WR he had last year. Devin Hester?

Now he’s playing in a pass-heavy system (because their defense is so bad, they’ll give up a lot of points) and he’s got Scheffler, Royal and Marshall (barring health issues) to throw to.

I won’t be surprised AT ALL if he puts up 4,000+ yards and ~25 TDs.

by Nick Andron on Apr 20, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Orton will have a good season,

but he will NEVER throw for 4000 yards. Anyone remember that game vs…I think it was the Vikings on MNF several years ago? Orton threw a post route and was so short that it was called for intentional grounding. Lovie was so flabbergasted he didn’t even challenge.

It sounds ridiculous but it’s true.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 20, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

During weeks 5,6, and 7

Orton threw for 334, 286, and 283 yards on 71 / 109. @ DET. @ ATL and against MIN, but not totally out of the realm of possibility.

by LantermanC on Apr 20, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mostly awful secondaries.

He’s going to be playing hardball with Nnamdi Asomugha, Brandon Flowers, Quentin Jammer, Antonio Cromartie, and others.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 20, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We are not rebuilding!

Matt has missed 13 of the last 48 games with injuries. Seneca was 4 wins and 9 losses as a starter. Injuries happen, especially to your QB. You have to have two good ones to compete in the NFL. There are not many like Brett Farve who can play 18 years without missing a game. The Seahawks need another starting QB because Matt is not going to start every game regardless of how long he plays. Without a franchise QB to back him up, the team has little chance of winning or going to the playoffs. How many 4-12 seasons do we need?

by Patches Pal on Apr 18, 2009 7:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hmm

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/18/report-browns-to-draft-sanchez-or-crabtree/ <-Browns want Sanchez or Crabtree (According to an unofficial report). Having the pick before, we COULD take Crabtree, then work out a trade to get Brady Quinn. How Awesome of a draft would that be?

by Trepidation on Apr 18, 2009 8:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Do not draft Sanchez

not enough experience and played with unbelievable weapons. I would only draft him if we could trade him to the Redskins for some more picks and throw in Colt Brennan for good measure. If Matt is the man in Seattle he does not need anyone looking over his shoulders. MMmmm….sounds a lot like like Holmgren and Jim Mora Jr. last year and we all know how that worked out. 1st round QB’s are a pure crapshoot. Tom Brady and Kurt Warner were not 1st round picks along with Hasslebeck. I’m huge believer in the Holmgren/Ron Wolf strategy….trade for great Back Ups that have upside. Brett Farve anyone…not a 1st rounder and was traded from Atlanta to Green Bay. Holmgren followed the same strategy and with Matt struck Silver…not quite gold but pretty close…lol…Something about Sanchez has Ryan Leaf written all over him. Also, did you see how Carrol reacted to him going pro…not a ringing endorsement.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 18, 2009 11:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So let me get this straight...

Hasselbeck will crumble with the pressure of the inexperienced Sanchez behind him, but will be totally great with Colt Brennan? Ok.

Sanchez’s accuracy and footwork are both far superior to Ryan Leaf. Also, as John Morgan has pointed out on this site, waiting for low draft picks to strike gold is not the easiest or most effective way to get a franchise quarterback, regardless of Holmgren’s success with Hasselbeck and Favre.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 18, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hasslebeck would be okay

with Brennan behind him….it’s not the same pressure as having a #4 pick waiting to take your spot with loads of money and team investment breathing down your back. I look at Colt Brennan just like the Seahawks looked at Charlie Frye last year…as more insurance with some possible upside in the future. So to answer your question Hasslebeck would be fine with Brennan and not with Sanchez. …and don’t disregard Farve and Hasslebeck so quickly. It worked.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 19, 2009 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thus,

the argument is, Hasselbeck can only be good if everyone below him basically sucks.

There is a reason Colt Brennan went in the 7th round. There is a reason Holmgren did not draft him.

I’m all for drafting a QB in the later rounds. Just don’t be surprised if we get many more opportunities to draft a QB in 3 years because we have to.

In business, you prepare to disrupt markets by moving ‘before’ the trend, not after. You set the market, you make money. You follow, you will be ok… and very mediocre.

If everyone here is willing to give up a #1 for Brian Brohm, GB’s 3rd stringer, go for it. Give me Sanchez and a prayer. He will be just as much a risk as Crabs.

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on Apr 19, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"There is a reason Holmgren did not draft him."

Yeah, that reason being he’s not GM.

JK.

I like Brennan, though. Not because of his cartoonish stats in college, but he has excellent touch on his throws.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 19, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So Carroll's boiling, transparent emotion about losing Sanchez is a bad thing?

Mt. Holmgren erupted when TR failed to franchise Hutch. By that logic, obviously Hutch must have sucked. : P

Sanchez may not be 100% NFL ready (or maybe he is), but I guarantee that’s not why Carroll was mad.

by kearly on Apr 18, 2009 11:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

no, no, you misunderstand

I think Carroll boiled partly because he wanted him back but also because I don’t think he thought Sanchez was NFL ready and as a coach you don’t want Matt Linearts out there killing your rep.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 18, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No I understood

I really don’t think Carroll’s “concern” for Sanchez is legitimate. Truth is, Sanchez made the smart financial decision by declaring now.

What Carroll does care about is his 2009 USC team just went from a national championship front-runner to a likely 9-4 team overnight.

by kearly on Apr 18, 2009 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan Leaf is a stretch

Sanchez was a top QB prospect in the nation coming out of High School, whereas Leaf was essentially a nobody who had a sensational rise to stardom at WSU.

Ryan Leaf was also a headcase who was obsessively competitive in all the wrong ways. Sanchez is almost the complete opposite in the personality department.

Leaf came out early but he was also thrown into the fire as an immediate starter. That’s not the case with Sanchez to Seattle, where he would presumably learn behind a multiple pro bowl QB in the mold of Rodgers/Rivers.

by kearly on Apr 18, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leaf not a stretch

Leaf was thrown into the fire…well so was Peyton Manning and John Elway….you get nowhere with me on that comparison….Leaf had major character issues and Sanchez did have a Sexual Assault case against him so don’t make him out to be a choir boy…He didn’t have enough experience to truly evaluate him….He also made poor decisions at times against fairly weak competition this past year. Nothing personal against him because I don’t want Stafford either….he showed poor judgment at times. QB is something we can address via trade or later in the this draft or another year all together.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 18, 2009 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leaf vs Sanchez is not really what I would consider an argument

It’s a totally subjective guess based on extremely limited criteria. If you don’t like Sanchez, I’d stick with the experience or other legitimate concerns, not random comparisons to busted prospects.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

nothing agaist Sanchez...

I just think he is the wrong pick for the Seahawks at the wrong time.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 19, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leaf, Manning, Elway, and the dozens of QB's that exploded from immediate starting

Has nothing to do with Sanchez in a Seattle 1-2 year back up scenario. That was my point.

by kearly on Apr 19, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please refrain from separating your sentences with multiple periods.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 19, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

2 Words for ya: Matt Leinart.

Leinart was far more polished and accomplished coming out of USC. Not that this is any predictive factor for Sanchez, just saying.

I’d be really surprised if the Seahawks went QB in the first round, blogosphere drum-banging or no. Ruskell or Mora are looking to win right now. If they’re going to groom the quarterback of the future I just don’t see it being one of these three guys. As Mayock said:

I wouldn’t bang the table for any of them like I did for Matt Ryan last year.

If I had to pull the trigger in the top 10 pick with a quarterback I would take Sanchez because I would feel like his floor is higher than the other guys.

So, Sanchez is Mayock’s best of a weak class. That ain’t sayin’ much. Mayock is the man, by the way. I worked with him and the guy you see on TV is exactly who he is. Knows football and current players better than anyone I’ve ever met.

Trade down, get Knowshon Moreno and a big O-lineman, and a mid-round QB prospect.

by lemonverbena on Apr 19, 2009 3:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it would be better...

if we didn’t assume that we are going to trade down, regardless of how wonderful that would be. The chances of that happening are highly unlikely, and are also not entirely dependent on Ruskell’s desires. If it does happen, terrific, but I wouldn’t count on it. Which leaves us back at the discussion of what to do with the #4 pick in the draft…

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That trade down scenario is wishful thinking of course.

I point it out because I think this is the way the Hawks are leaning. They’re in what should be a good trade-down position, so they’ll explore that fully and we’ll see what happens. If they stay at #4 I think they end up with Monroe.

by lemonverbena on Apr 19, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't complain with Monroe at #4.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Neither would I, but

damn, would that be a boring pick.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 19, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ABSO-FUCKIN'-LUTELY

He might be Walter II, but man would I be stuck with a case of the meh’s if we got Monroe with the highest Hawks picks we’ve seen in the better part of a decade and us needing skill players.

If we go Monroe at 4 and a DE at 37 I might die of boredom.

by djafrot on Apr 20, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But that's because we also had a rock solid interior line.

Gray was serviceable, Tobeck and Hutch were studs.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 20, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point being that I'd be wildly enthusiastic with Robinson/Unger/ Mack/Levitre

over Smith/Monroe.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 20, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I personally don't give a shit about boring.

I do however, give a shit about winning. Give me the players who help the Seahawks do this the best, boring or not.

Weez the juice!!

by Carl Shinyama on Apr 20, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trade down with whom?

If Sanchez is no good, why the hell would anyone trade up?

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on Apr 19, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with a lot of what you said

Leinart is a better comp, but at the same time, I don’t necessarily see that as a put-down. If you could simulate 100 Matt Leinart’s going to 100 different situations, some would fail and some would succeed. To illustrate that, As John points out later, there is no escaping the fact that Matt Ryan had a lot of good luck in his rookie season. Had Matt Ryan gone somewhere else would he have had the same phenomenal level of rookie success?

Sanchez could easily be a bust, or he could be great. You take him for his talent and the intangibles and hope for the best, but nobody knows how he’ll turn out.

I agree that this isn’t the best QB class, but next year’s is only slightly better (Bradford, McCoy, Tebow), and do you really think the Seahawks will be picking #4 in 2010? I see the prospect of getting a QB high in next years draft as either unlikely or incredibly expensive (from trading up). Plus that QB would have 1 less year to prepare.

Where I disagree is the idea that Ruskell and Mora don’t care a lick about QB because they want to “win now.” Unless Ruskell or Mora think they’ll be gone in 2 years, how can they ignore the impending QB situation? What good will it do them to have a 9-10 win season next year only to collapse in 2010 or 2011 from lack of QB play, and then be forced into full rebuild mode? By taking a QB now, they have the potential to completely avoid a rebuild the same way that San Diego and Green Bay did by taking a QB a couple years early.

by kearly on Apr 19, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

“To illustrate that, As John points out later, there is no escaping the fact that Matt Ryan had a lot of good luck in his rookie season. Had Matt Ryan gone somewhere else would he have had the same phenomenal level of rookie success?”

There’s an unwritten assumption in that quote that Atlanta exactly 1 year ago was a “good situation” something I would completely disagree with. The team was bottom third of the league on offense and defense in 2007 and had a completely new coaching staff. Nobody believed Atlanta was going to be competitive in 2008, much less make the playoffs. Matt Ryan didn’t go to a “good situation.” Matt Ryan made, at best a mediocre situation, work out very well. Atlanta’s passing offense was 4th in DVOA last year.

by DoubleB on Apr 19, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually the good luck Morgan refers to

Is getting away with rookie mistakes and bad passes, etc. Not that he happened to go to a “good” bad team.

by kearly on Apr 19, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ruskell/Mora care a lot about QB, but they regard the position as handled in the present.

I think if one of the available quarterbacks was a clearer top prospect they would be inclined to go that way. Mayock saying Sanchez’ has the highest floor says more about the weakness of this QB class than anything else.

by lemonverbena on Apr 19, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its debatable if the QB situation is even good at present

Hasselbeck was wretched in 2008. He has an injury that’s notorious for recurring. He turns 34 in September. And his arm strength is getting so bad that its causing problems.

Optimistically, we’re looking at 2 more years of average to above average QB play from Hasselbeck. Pessimistically, Hasselbeck could be in the middle of a Shaun Alexander-esque 2 year shutdown, with year 1 being last year.

You’ll notice that I’m not debating Sanchez’s caliber or the weakness of this QB draft class. He’s not the top player on my wish list. But I absolutely think that Sanchez and Stafford are on Ruskell/Mora’s radar. A couple months ago, Mora flat out said in an interview they’d be drafting a QB somewhere in this draft, and after Sanchez, we’re talking a big time long shot at being a franchise QB.

by kearly on Apr 19, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, thank you for saying this

I love Hasselbeck, but you never want to hear the words “degenerative back condition” referring to your starting quarterback. They can say all the right things now in April, but recall last preseason EVERYONE, including Matt, was saying that everything was fine, he was just sitting out preseason games as a precaution, etc., etc., and then 2008 happened.

People, we’re probably not going to the Super Bowl next year. Sorry to break it to all of you.

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on Apr 19, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would hesitate to prejudge such a thing.

A Super Bowl team is not necessarily the perfect monster, honed and built to an ideal zenith. The Chargers dominated everyone on their way to a 14-2 season in 2006, then the 2nd round happened. The Cardinals had never won anything in modern history, went 9-7 in a weak NFC West, and they almost won it all last year.

The 2009 Seahawks might not be perfectly primed for a run, but there is absolutely no reason to count one out.

by lemonverbena on Apr 20, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hence the term "probably"

As in “not likely.” I’m not saying that there is no chance that we win the Super Bowl, but there are several teams ahead of us talent-wise just in the NFC alone (i.e. Giants, Eagles, Cardinals, Packers, etc.). Yes, we could have a miracle run in us, which would be one of the best moments of my life, but it is unlikely at present.

It’s perfectly fine to prejudge something with the information at hand. We do it all the time with our sports teams. The majority of online M’s fans prejudged us as a 78-81 win team, with an ok chance of reaching the postseason. That’s a prejudge.

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on Apr 20, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree with Eagles/Packers.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 20, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which one can do, but remember who was ranked #1 in Team DVOA last year

Hint: They play in Philly and are called the Eagles.

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on Apr 20, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way, thanks Doug

Some positive feedback for Sanchez was sorely needed around these parts, especially with it looking more and more likely he could be the pick. Glad to have you aboard the Mark Sanchez bandwagon.

BTW I’m new to posting on SBnation, how do I give a rec?

by kearly on Apr 18, 2009 11:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

nm

I see it now.

by kearly on Apr 18, 2009 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hasslebeck is the Man now

SO GIVE HIM SOME WEAPONS and not a QB controversy…..an All Pro Center would help to. Spencer sucks and makes no line adjustments.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 18, 2009 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aren't all of these other positions

Or WEAPONS something we can also address later in the draft, like Unger for example? Or Robiskie?

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Robiskie...

ain’t a weapon…defensive coordinators will not loose sleep game planning for Robiskie….Crabtree might keep coaches from getting some Zees though.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 19, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So basically you're saying give Hasselbeck a WEAPON instead of WEAPONS

Because everything after the #4 pick won’t be good enough to consider a WEAPON because defensive coordinators won’t have to stress game planning for them.

Crabtree could be a terrific game changer. I am not going to complain if they draft him. I also will not expect anything out of him next year, but will hope in the next two-three years that he would start to tap some of his potential.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Weapon with other Weapons.

Crabtree is the clear cut #1 WR in this draft and on many draft boards #1 period….I didn’t say our draft ends in the 1st RD….we can add more weapons in rounds 2nd-7…but Crabtree vs. Robiskie isn’t even a contest. The Seahawks need a game changer and Crabtree will contribute week 1 not 2 or 3 years down the line. I would love to add a game changing RB to but it seems as if Ruskell is sold on JJ and Duckett so then we need to add to other positions of need. After WR in the 1st Rd, OLB, OL, S and CB…I think CB and Saftey can be addressed via Free Agency but I think we can help ourselves in this years draft. Ruskell has just been known to draft horribly in the 1st round since becoming GM.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 19, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Guess it depends what your definition of "contribute" is

I wouldn’t expect a 1000 yrd #1 receiver. Larry Fitzgerald (everyone’s favorite comparison), had 780 yards his first year, which is great, but not elite by any stretch. Braylon Edwards had 512 yards. Calvin Johnson had 756 yards. Solid numbers, but again, not a game changer. That came in years 2 and 3 for those most recent hyped high WR draft picks.

In other words, those #1 picks didn’t become an elite weapon that put an offense over the top in that first season.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Apr 19, 2009 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

contribute

point well taken…I see what your saying…everyone isn’t Randy Moss in his first year….But think about it, the Cards drafted Fitz after already having Boldin…you need bookends in this league that draw double teams. Branch does not require double teams and Housz lived off of Chad Johnson being doubled all the time. Crabtree is that weapon you double…I just see to many match up problems when you look at the scope of all 3 WR on the field at the same time. But you did make a solid point with your question of contribute. I think if we get 700 yds and 7 TD’s out this guy first year it could mean a great career in Seattle. He’s a big Red Zone threat…throw in Carlson and TJ…the offense would look really nice.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 19, 2009 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a single one of those players had a QB even close to Hasselbeck's level.

Braylon had Trent Dilfer and Charlie Frye.
Fitz had Shaun King and Josh McCown.
Calvin had Jon Kitna.
Hasselbeck may be declining, but he’s still multiple tiers above any of those QBs. I’d even consider Seneca better than the majority of those QBs.

by SeaTownBlueDevil on Apr 20, 2009 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, see, one argument is that Hasselbeck is not close to his own level

We might never see 2007 Hasselbeck again, unfortunately.

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on Apr 20, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I love it.
Hasselbeck is not close to his own level

It sounds funny, but it might be true. Same for Big Walt.

by LantermanC on Apr 20, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jon Kitna isn't a bad QB.

But to add to your point, Calvin was injured too so assuming he was healthy the entire season he could have likely (easily) hauled in 1,000 yards.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 20, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crabtree will be an impact player

when Hasselbeck is 36.

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on Apr 19, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Weapon with other Weapons

don’t know why my response was deleted…but Crabtree vs. Robiskie isn’t a contest….Crabtree is the #1 WR in the draft and in some draft rooms #1 overall. I never said the draft ended after round 1…we can add more weapons to. Long as we don’t draft Sanchez or Stafford I’m happy. Crabtree/Smith/Curry/Wells/Moreno I’d be happy.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 19, 2009 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It wouldn't surprise me if Sanchez is better than Stafford

but I disagree his floor is higher. Sanchez looks great on tape, but he’s played in extremely favorable positions. A great stat would be expected interception rate based on game situation. Obviously, when you’re ahead, very ahead or even just tied but playing with a top five defense, there’s very little pressure, both mental and from the defense. If at any point in his career, Sanchez led a comeback, practically the defining act of a quarterback, I would be a lot less worried about his bust potential. Sanchez is going to lose and lose big his first season. Matt Ryan is a fluke, and I may be the only person in the world, but I think Matt Ryan is a fluke that won’t repeat himself next season. I was never super-impressed with Ryan. He seemed like he got away with the most boneheaded crap, and every bad decision he made turned into a third and long completion. I still love his potential, but I don’t think he’ll regain his rookie season for at least two years. I digress, Sanchez is going to lose and lose big and I need to see he can thrive under legitimate pressure, both mental and from the defense. If he doesn’t, he’s going to bust.

by John Morgan on Apr 19, 2009 9:26 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

“Sanchez looks great on tape, but he’s played in extremely favorable positions.”

Right. Exactly, with the modifier that I would use: “Sanchez looks great on tape, AND he’s played in extremely favorable positions.” There are quarterbacks who look great on college tape who will have no shot at the next level. Whether the concerns are systemic or skill-related, there are guys who would thrive (or at least survive) in more optimal surroundings than they’re given. Almost any young quarterback is this way.

Back to my original point — because Sanchez is percieved (rightly) to fit a certain kind of offense more than others, teams who run that offense are far more predisposed to put him higher on their board than a team that had no business taking him from a schematic standpoint. To me, Stafford is the guy who will get that, because his attributes pop off the tape a little more. People see the arm and they’re slightly blinded to everything else, good and bad. People look at Sanchez and they have to take in the full array, because there isn’t one thing that is going to blow your face off. And I would maintain that guys like Sanchez are far more likely to go to a team that sees him for what he is and knows that the fit is there.

by Doug Farrar on Apr 19, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Losses in Confidence

I’ll confess that I haven’t seen a lot of games that Sanchez played in, but a friend of mine who went to USC has, and shared something alarming with me.

He said that if Sanchez had a bad first quarter, than he would always have a bad rest of the game. However, if his first quarter was strong, he would put up great numbers. As he phrased it, Sanchez’s first 7 passes would reveal how he would do the rest of the game. He attributed this to a loss of confidence, and inability to rebound if things got rough.

John, Doug, have either of you noticed this on tape as well?

by HawksFan on Apr 19, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In how many opportunities?

That is the biggest issue, that whatever trends one might notice…it is based off of too few games.

by cashless on Apr 19, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

USC fan here. Just wanted to comment on the losses in confidence. There is some correlation to support this notion, but I think it’s a little premature to be alarmed by it. There is not enough data to find a consistent trend as Cashless points out below Here is some of the data we do have:

Against Arizona (the best example to support this notion), Sanchez came out a little juiced and overthrew a Patrick Turner in the endzone on a post route on the first drive. It would have been a sure TD. Sanchez later admitted not being able to let go of that mistake and it affected him in the next few series. But down the stretch he made some critical throws and we won the game 17-10. Because our defense was playing so well, the offensive game plan was fairly conservative, but he stood in the pocket and delivered the a game winning 30 yard TD.

Against Arizona State (disproves the notion), Sanchez led the team on a 79 yard TD drive on the first possession with several long passes, yet he went on to throw 3 INTs and lost one fumble, in a 28-0 win. The defense had a pick six, so Sanchez did not have a good game, despite starting the game very well.

Against ND, Sanchez throws a pick on his first throw. Goes on to throw for 74%, 2 TDs and 2 INTs. ND is a very bad team though.

Against Oregon State, Sanchez did not have as much time to throw as he is used to in the first few series. Coming out of the half down 21-0, we very quickly brought it back to 14-21. But then he threw a a critical INT in the face of pressure down 14-21 that iced the game. Still, he led the team on some VERY quick scoring drives, but could not bring us back. 62% completions, 3 TDs. It was actually the defense that lost us this game.

Against Ohio State and Penn St.: Two biggest games of the year, and he played incredible well. Then again, he mostly had time to throw…

In my opinion, Sanchez’s ability to handle consistent pressure is more of a worry, especially when we are behind in the game. Our O-line gave him a long time to throw in most games and we were almost always ahead. Most people would agree that Sanchez is an emotional player compared to Leinart / John David Booty and wears his emotions on his sleeve. I guess we’ll see.

by vantageSC on Apr 22, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, the Oregon State loss is open to interpretation. The defense is not completely to blame. The defense couldn’t get off the field, but the offense couldn’t sustain drives in the first half. Vicious cycle.

by vantageSC on Apr 22, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

From what I saw, Oregon State's offensive line was overpowering SC's front 7.

Which was why Jizz Rodgers was seemingly rushing for at least 5 yards each carry, letting them control the game.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 22, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

if the argument is that Sanchez is more likely to be drafted into the right system and Stafford is more likely to be drafted by a team that expects the moon, that might be true, but it’s also immaterial for Seattle. Whether Seattle drafts Stafford or Sanchez, they will play in the same system. Traditionally, I would say Sanchez is the better West Coast style quarterback, from a scouting angle and ignoring his inexperience, but I think Stafford is the better fit in Knapp’s system. Stafford’s skill-set seems made for a run first, play action offense.

by John Morgan on Apr 20, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe...but

Point well made John, but I disagree with you as far as Matt Ryan….Matt was the only star on his team made a mediocre BC team very competitive with great 4th quarter comebacks where the ball and the game was in his hands with hardly no talent around him. He was a can’t miss in the draft I had him rated as the #1 player on the board last year. You can’t teach the intangibles this kid showed in college and he showed it in his first year as a pro. No drop off for him next year just more big plays with the extra weapons the Falcons will add….I could see them in the NFC championship game next year. As far as Sanchez he has displayed none of that….his back has never been against the wall and he had a defense that always put his offense in favorable situations. One word “UNTESTED”. You don’t not take chances with that 4th pick. Trust me, if Taylor Mays would’ve come out I’d be screaming about the Hawks taking him with the 4th pick and not Crabtree.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 19, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would, too.

I was pissed when he decided not to declare.

Weez the juice!!

by Carl Shinyama on Apr 19, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's no indication that Taylor Mays will be an elite safety at the NFL level.

Or even a competent one.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 19, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You could say that about any player at any position who was projected to go Round 3 or lower.

Its one thing to say that he might not be elite and worthy of a Top 10 pick, but it’s a little too far to predict he won’t even be league-average.

by SeaTownBlueDevil on Apr 20, 2009 6:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mays is a stud

This guy has Shawn Taylor written all over him. And if Shawn Taylor was still alive no one would dispute him going in the top 5 of any draft. Taylor Mays is a freak of nature just like Shawn Taylor. Would easily be a top 5 pick this year.

by Mr. Blache III on Apr 20, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought Sean Taylor was a bit overrated.

In any case, I’ve seen a ton of USC and Mays is getting hyped to hell because…he can lay a hit? He’s not a particularly good wrap-up tackler, and we have little evidence of coverage skills because USC’s front 7 is absolutely ferocious.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 20, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was said about Troy Polamalu, too.

Not everyone thought that way about him, but he had his doubters, too.

Weez the juice!!

by Carl Shinyama on Apr 19, 2009 5:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If I remember correctly, Troy Polamalu had more INTs in one collegiate than Taylor Mays has in his entire collegiate career so far.

So far, Mays is nothing but an excellent size/40 time ratio.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 19, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Incorrect. Polamalu never had more INT's in a single season than Mays had his entire career.

Though he had more in his career than Mays did. However, Polamalu played longer. It’s not out of the realm of possibility for Mays to end up with more than Polamalu did.

Anyways, as has been pointed out before in another thread, interceptions are based more on chance and circumstance, rather than on actual skills alone. To evaluate a player’s skill at interceptions, one must look over several seasons worth of interceptions to get a better look, though even then it’s not fully reliable.

Mays would do a lot for someone like Deon Grant. Free him up to do what he does best.

There’s no indication that Mays won’t be at least a competent safety in the NFL.

Weez the juice!!

by Carl Shinyama on Apr 19, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's Ed Reed, who twice had twice as many interceptions in a season as Mays has had over his career.

Polamalu only had six interceptions in his three season, only two more than Mays, but Polamalu returned his interceptions for 192 yards and three touchdowns. Mays had returned his touchdowns for just 40. Polamalu also had 278 tackles (Mays: 180) and 29 tackles for a loss (Mays: 3). Mays is not impressive statistically, so much so, one must argue teams are throwing away from him to justify his lack of production. Maybe they are, but I didn’t see it.

by John Morgan on Apr 20, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only thing that I don't like about him..

Is that he likes to go for the big hit when a simple tackle would suffice. Nothing wrong about intimidating your opponents by laying a big one, but not at the potential cost of a big play here or there. That’s not to say that he gave up big plays, because I didn’t see it. It’s just that in the NFL, WR’s are better trained at avoiding the big hit and making the DB pay.

Weez the juice!!

by Carl Shinyama on Apr 20, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding Mays' interception return yards,

Four INTs might be too small of a sample size to declare him as a Safety who can only return 10 yards per INT. Now, if he had 10 career INTs with 100 yards, then we might have a little more evidence. When you consider one good return can go for 70-80 yards, there’s too much variance in the numbers for such a small amount of total INTs.

by SeaTownBlueDevil on Apr 20, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No youtube.com at work

Plz summarize the video: did he suck, or did he do well?

by Nick Andron on Apr 20, 2009 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well he ended up with 5 tds, so pretty good.

But his first 6 attempts looked kind of bad. 7th was a TD.

Sometimes his line looked surprisingly bad, sometimes it looks pretty good. I agree with most experts (obviously) that he has great feet.

by LantermanC on Apr 20, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed.

Either USC’s line was a sieve in that particular game or Penn State really cranks up the pressure.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 20, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or.... you could click on it yourself.

And develop your own opinion about Sanchez’s play in that game instead of having someone else do it for you.

I thought he did well. He wasn’t extraordinary, but he was very good in that game and efficient. Hurt him that a couple of passes were dropped, but that happens.

Weez the juice!!

by Carl Shinyama on Apr 20, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See, when he wrote "no youtube at work"

he was referring to the fact that 1) he was currently at work, and 2) he could not view youtube at work, thus 3) he could not currently view the youtube video. The end result of that is that he could not click on it himself and develop his own opinion at the present time.

Now, if you were being sarcastic, then whatever, forget this as me being an ass. If you were not being sarcastic, you are welcome for today’s class in reading comprehension.

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on Apr 20, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Waylaid by jackassery!

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 20, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Venture Brothers are the story of my life

Unfortunately, I’m usually the source of the jackassery, which coincides with the Venture Family as well……

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on Apr 20, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you, actually.

I made that reply while still waking up. Brain wasn’t working properly.

Jackassery aside, he’s not always at work, so the advice could still prove to be handy.

Weez the juice!!

by Carl Shinyama on Apr 20, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Far too lazy until I'm home

And I’d rather you just summarize for me <3

by Nick Andron on Apr 20, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Glad to be of service!

The danger of posting whilst waking up has felled many an individual (including myself)

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on Apr 20, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Almost sold

I’m starting to feel like my wife watching a ShamWow commercial. I’ve heard so much about him that i’m starting to think they’d be dumb not to get him.

I’m still torn as to wether they go QB or OT personally. I just don’t #4 is worth it for anything else . For now I’m ok with either but I would still take Monroe.

by hawkfanjp on Apr 20, 2009 11:07 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Billy Mays as an NFL Agent

Regardless of talent, you know his clients would be drafted in the top 5.

frightening thought

by Nick Andron on Apr 20, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"THIS IS A REAL LIVE SKUNK!"

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 21, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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