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Assessing the Seahawks' Need at Offensive Guard

Who wants to bet the guys with the murder glares make the best pros?

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Who wants to bet the guys with the murder glares make the best pros?

+ Round-by-round picks

Guard

Strengths: Youth, potential

Weaknesses: Ability, depth, health, fit

In Brief: Mike Wahle is the presumed starter at left guard. Wahle is a decent fit for the system and the team has little incentive to cut him, but he looks to have lost it as a pass defender and his injuries are quickly becoming the career-threatening kind. Rob Sims is an excellent pass blocker. He doesn't move well through traffic and isn't a pull blocker. Sims is a good example of the curious way Seattle seems to be assembling its zone blocking line. He would likely play on the right. Mansfield Wrotto showed tremendous growth in 2008. He was a serviceable right guard and has the athleticism to play left. Wrotto is a run blocking force, but so unrefined as to be a liability. He was penalized for three holds in limited action. Ray Willis can play inside.

Targets by Round

2. Max Unger/Duke Robinson: In theory, one develops a system to best use one's resources. So, Seattle would employ a zone blocking system to maximize players that fit a zone blocking system, like...Wrotto? Sean Locklear sort of makes sense, and one can see Chris Spencer moving around alright, old-man back and all, but Seattle isn't built like a traditional zone blocking team, so what is Seattle building? Seattle's line is powerful. Sims and Spencer are former power lifters. Wrotto is a bruiser. Willis is a bruiser. All four move reasonably well in space, none are stiff per se, but none are light/fast, fleet footed but undersized, technical and savvy, none are akin to Alex Gibbs zone blockers. Max Unger is. Which sort of means Unger is a poor fit for what Seattle is doing. Or it means Seattle is drafting Unger and starting over.

If I were to interpret what Seattle is doing, an outsider's perspective mind you, I would guess Seattle is creating a non-traditional zone blocking scheme. Instead of using light/fast technicians, Seattle is using powerful/quick maulers. And instead of using zone principles to mask shortcomings of strength and accentuate agility and decision making, Seattle is using zone principles to mask shortcomings of technique and blitz awareness and accentuate power and physical dominance. In that sense, Duke Robinson may never cut block effectively, but teamed with Chris Spencer, he's going to knock that nose tackle into next week and peel off and look for more. It may not work as well on the outside, but it's and interesting gambit in the interior. Robinson, like Sims and Spencer and Wrotto, is not super-agile or super-aware, but he's reasonably agile, quick and immensely powerful.

4. Tyronne Green: Green is a former defensive lineman whose inexperience and lack of technique and awareness, but aggression, athleticism and coachability make him a lot like Mansfield Wrotto. If Seattle is building on the talent it has, and building a system that fits that talent, Green is a perfect match. He moves well in space, but his upside is in his power. Like Wrotto, Green doesn't just glide to and guide linebackers away, he gets up on `em and puts a punch in their sternum.

5. Xavier Fulton: Fulton is listed at tackle, but I see him as a guard. Fulton is also a former defensive tackle with limited experience...in fact, just transpose everything I just wrote about Green. Fulton is bit taller and a bit better athlete in a measurables sort of way, but less aggressive and coachable. It wouldn't surprise me if Fulton is drafted first, but I think Green is the better prospect. Green has that air of a player that will do anything to be an NFL player and so should improve throughout his rookie contract. Think of Fulton as the Baraka Atkins to Green's Darryl Tapp.

The dark horse here is none of the above, with Seattle either targeting a guard I've missed or simply not selecting a guard. It's not a strong class, and there's few players that fit Tim Ruskell's MO. Seattle needs depth, but it also needs starter capable players. That's a list of two.

0 recs  |  Comment 32 comments |

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You don't talk about Steve Vallos in this

Does that mean he’s still being counted as the backup center? Or did he get cut?

by Ezzra on Apr 20, 2009 4:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ziggy Hood, maybe Michael Johnson, James Laurinaitis, Brian Robiskie

Alphonso Smith, Sean Smith, Darius Butler and maybe Donald Brown.

by John Morgan on Apr 20, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Off topic

I keep seeing mocks and people talking about Laurinaitis being a pick in the second isn’t he a MLB?

 I could be wrong but I thought that overall speed and coverage were his short comings but he is high character and a nonstop player?

 Does he have the ability to move outside or am I missing something?

by hawkfanjp on Apr 21, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He is an ILB

but that’s not a hard transition. Hill was an ILB. Laurinaitis’ straight line speed isn’t great, but his agility is good and I think he’s better suited for the short zone than the deep zone. Good skills should make up from just good athleticism.

by John Morgan on Apr 22, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Laurinaitis was excellent in coverage in college.

But his athleticism may not be enough to cut it on holding the same good coverage in the pros.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 22, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

“I would guess Seattle is creating a non-traditional zone blocking scheme. Instead of using light/fast technicians, Seattle is using powerful/quick maulers. And instead of using zone principles to mask shortcomings of strength and accentuate agility and decision making, Seattle is using zone principles to mask shortcomings of technique and blitz awareness and accentuate power and physical dominance.”

I think this is an extrememly astute observation, and the team I would put out there as an example is the current Falcons of line coach Paul Boudreau as opposed to the old Falcons of Alex Gibbs. The Falcons run combo stuff and use pulling guards well when they send Michael Turner up the middle, slide protection when they have Turner cutting to the backside, and good overall power in the pass blocking. They’ll run some zone stuff, but it’s just as much about power as agility.

I did an interview with Robinson a couple weeks ago, and I wanted to get past the whole “big bruiser” thing, and talk about what they ran at Oklahoma.

That closeness led to an efficiency and schematic creativity which emphasized the talents of each individual player. At 6-5 and 330 pounds, Robinson is known as true earthmover, but he’s also required to pull and provide agility. “We’d mix it up and do different things,” he said. “We had track (angle) schemes, zone schemes, pulling schemes where I was pulling to the outside or the opposite side of the ball. Strong or weak side. We’d use every offense — spread, bunch, jumbo. There are a lot of different things — two tight ends, one tight end. Single back, two back, sometimes we’d have three backs. We had a wonderful offensive coordinator (Kevin Wilson, who won the 2008 Frank Broyles Award as the nation’s top assistant) and the right personnel to get the job done. We had a versatile offense, and we were able to do different things for the guys we had.”


Robinson’s got a handle on his strengths and limitations, which is always good to see.

by Doug Farrar on Apr 20, 2009 5:01 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

It's good to read Robinson talking football

It makes me think he could fool Seattle into drafting him.

by John Morgan on Apr 20, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Levitre's not really a possibility here?

I don’t know much about him except people talk about him and he’s a G from the NW.

by LantermanC on Apr 20, 2009 6:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Same question.

He’s supposedly a better prospect than Roy Schuening, and I thought Schuening was great.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 20, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This guard class may be bad, but it's leagues better than last season's.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 20, 2009 10:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think we need a guard more then a tackle

it’s going to be a tough decision at 37, if one or both of those guards falls and which safteys are left. Or a receiver if they pass on Crabs. DT I would be ok with. But knowing Ruskell he’ll probably screw me all up by picking a CB or some shit.

by B.B.Finnegan on Apr 20, 2009 10:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm fine with CB

as long as it’s not the 5’9.5" guy. Last thing we need is another short/small CB.

by LantermanC on Apr 20, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, I could see that also

This draft is kinda weird in that we don’t really have a need at any position, but we could upgrade at every position.

Except kicker. We definitively need another kicker.

by B.B.Finnegan on Apr 21, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We didn't need them before, either.

Which is why it’s such a shame CB is still a need despite two first-day picks on them in recent drafts.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 21, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keenan Lewis

He’s just over 6’ and 208 with ball skills (out of Oregon State) would love it if they could get him in the 3rd.

by hawkfanjp on Apr 21, 2009 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about Alex Mack?

Some mocks have him slipping into the 2nd round.

by kearly on Apr 20, 2009 11:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good question

I guess the presumption is that he’ll be gone by then, but obviously nothing is for sure. Also, John probably didn’t have the time to profile every possible selection. More like the probable and/or likely slash logical player who could be picked at that point.

I’ll be curious about the Centers…will Eric Wood be a guy we look at?

by Misfit74 on Apr 21, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, that clears it up.

Thanks. I had thought Mack was also a potential Guard in the NFL. A Guard/Center type. NFLDraftScout made this reference:

Pulling/Trapping: Because of his ability to move out and lead along the edge on screens, he could see some action at guard early in his NFL career.

by Misfit74 on Apr 21, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's mostly to highlight his skills

I don’t see a team drafting Mack and then playing him out of position.

by John Morgan on Apr 21, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if we treat him like Spencer his rookie year.

C/G capabilities, backing up either in case of injuries, and then playing center his 2nd year?

by LantermanC on Apr 21, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spencer was bad at guard.

I also don’t think Mack is a great fit for Seattle.

by John Morgan on Apr 21, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm interested about what you think would prevent Mack (and other players) from being a 'fit' for Seattle.

If a modified ZBS is being implemented and seemingly would utilize both traditional concepts and feature power-based players, what is it that Mack lacks to make him a poor fit?

by Misfit74 on Apr 21, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mack is polished and aware

and Seattle seems to be creating a simplified system that accentuates power and athleticism.

by John Morgan on Apr 21, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I heard Mack was pretty strong too?

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Apr 21, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's cool you continued your point about him.

I figured it would eventually get answered in the ‘Center’ thread, but it’s nice to have that responsiveness. This line construction stuff is fascinating and will be interesting to see how it plays out through the draft and into the season.

by Misfit74 on Apr 21, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

AQ Shipley?

He seems to have some promice and in the fourth round a pretty good value but do you think he’s big enough? Zone should negate the need to be as big if he can get out fast and has good enough footwork correct? With that said 6’1’’ is pretty short.

by hawkfanjp on Apr 21, 2009 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matt Stafford has the pudgiest cheeks for a football player ever.

I dunno if I could look at that mug behind my center.

by djafrot on Apr 21, 2009 3:08 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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