The Tape: The Hulking Black Duke, Pt. 1
The Sooners play at breakneck speed, and despite little success and the kind of disorder that screams Bob Stoops in a bowl game, Oklahoma had 16 offensive snaps in the first quarter. Ok, that's not that much. But Oklahoma did run more plays in fourteen games, 1,106, than the NFL leading New England Patriots did in 16 games, 1,095. Why is that significant? Because Duke Robinson is a gigantic offensive lineman knocked for his stamina, speed off the snap and mental lapses. I think those concerns are misguided.
This was Robinson's bad quarter. The quarter that knocked him down a round or three in your favorite mock draft. Robinson was penalized twice for a combined 25 yards. He's a holding machine. Robinson tries to be slick about it, but he has fistfuls of jersey almost every play. That's a red flag for me, because should pro officials be less lenient, Robinson could have to start over with his hand technique.
Eventually, that chicken came home to roost. Lawrence Marsh got up and under Robinson's pads, standing him upright and turning Robinson sideways. He then began moving around Robinson's left shoulder towards Sam Bradford. Robinson did the natural thing, got his hands under Marsh's pads and pushed him to ground as Marsh attempted to get free to the quarterback. I'm a bit ambivalent about this play. The hold was not egregious and ultimately Robinson pushed Marsh to the ground, not pulled or tossed. Nevertheless his hands were clenched around Marsh's jersey and the flag legitimate. But the flag isn't thrown if Marsh and Robinson stay perpendicular to the sideline. Once the two became parallel to the sideline, and their matchup splayed for the official, the flag was academic. If I may say so, Robinson has excellent "hold" technique. It would seem he has had plenty of practice.
Excepting that play, the one constant of Robinson's play is he's never overmatched. He toys with defensive linemen like a cat juggling a mouse. His push is repulsive. His drive block filthy. And when he angles someone it's Marcus Stroud executing one-armed Rob Sims. It's a burial without last rights.
It's hard to see how he works in the second level. It's a conundrum. He's very quick to the second level, and he's not (ever) a hat on man blocker - it's gravedigger or nothing - but I never actually saw him move laterally. That's something I'm paying special attention to. I wouldn't say it's the end-all-be-all of zone blocking, but you don't want a zone blocker that can't move laterally.
There's tedium to scouting an offensive lineman play by play. Most plays, it's sufficient to say "good push" or "pass block, kept defender at bay". So here's a few more global impressions after the first sixteen play.
Robinson ran someone into the pile well after the play had ended and was charged with a personal foul. I'm not sure how a four year starter still makes such boneheaded mistakes.
Two men penetrated past Robinson. One stunting around his left shoulder untouched by Phil Loadholdt (blown block on Loadholdt) and another where it's not entirely clear who messes up, but Robinson is caught looking left on a defensive linemen shooting the "1" off his right shoulder.
Two Sooner plays looked outright broken: Bradford naked bootlegged into a blitz, his only receiver well covered. The Sooner line allowing defenders through on what looks like a middle screen missing a target. Under heavy pressure, Bradford found his outlet, Ryan Broyles, for four on a third and fifteen.
It's hard not to love Robinson's potential, but something says he's just not safe enough for Ruskell. More to come.
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John, you said once that Robinson was 'crafted in a zone-blocking dream factory'
(Something to that effect)
From my understanding of zone-blocking, it requires more athletic linemen who can deliver a pop on the move. From what I’ve seen of Robinson, he seems to be more of a road-grading, annihilate whoever’s lined up directly in front type of bruiser.
Theoretically, wouldn’t Max Unger be a better fit?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
I'm not sure I buy that Robinson is so stiff
and he blocks well on the move, but, Unger is a much more traditional zone blocking lineman, yes. If Robinson could play in a zone system is something I hope to determine.
Million dollar question...
I would think that both Robinson and Unger are slated at about the same point of the draft (early second’ish).
Should both be there and Seattle is on the clock, which one do you take given our intentions to be a zone blocking team?
I know you are directing that question to John...
But personally (and selfishly), I’d go with Robinson. But if I’m Tim Ruskell, I’m going with the more versatile linemen. I think that’s why he decided to keep Pork Chop around, despite his impatience with players who have a history of injuries. Pork Chop proved his value this past year with his ability to play several positions on the line.
Weez the juice!!
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 3, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm a little confused as to how Robinson is more versatile.
Unger has played Right Tackle, guard, and Center in his career. He seems perfect for an O-line thats riddled with injury risks.
by SeaTownBlueDevil on Apr 4, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I didn't say Robinson was more versatile.
I was trying to imply that Unger was the more versatile lineman when I said “BUT if I’m Tim Ruskell, I’d go with the more versatile lineman”. Apparently, I didn’t do a very good job of it.
Weez the juice!!
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 4, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, is this the first quarter of the Oklahoma vs. Florida BCS championship game?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
The Duke and the draft
Hi John,
The Seahawks should not take a QB with the first pick in the draft….The team signed Housz to win now, not in the future. I think that if Seattle doesn’t trade back in the draft, they should take Crabtree with the pick and have a true #1 WR to go along with the other complimentary ones we have now. None of the are #1’s and Branch and Burelson are two huge injury risks with Burelson still a question mark to be healthy by seasons start. Offensive line is a need but that can be addressed later in the draft or in next years draft. my picks :
1. Michael Crabtree (or trade back in the 1st Rd for Percy Harvin or Brian Cushing)
2. Duke Robinson (this guy is a run blocking machine. Steve Hutchinson like push)
3. Michael Hamlin
4. Best OLB left on the board (maybe Freeman from Ohio St.)
5. Best CB available
6-7 Rd’s best avaialable player
I think Seattles Personnel for the most part defense is still pretty good it’s scheme that gave them headaches last year. Offensively Seattle needs playmakers. The WR’s they had last year were horrible and Seattle didn’t have enough insurance for WR’s last year like Branch that was coming off the same injury Burelson has now and Engram who was 35 yrs old. Seattle should also look at bringing back DJ Hackett to be insurance and Ken Lucas to be starting CB alongside Trufant.
Gustave Blache III (and yes I am the Greg Blache’s younger cousin)
You're perfectly entitled to discuss this.
But I wager it would be more appropriate in the fanposts on the right -→
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Apr 3, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for the post, but try and stay on-topic.
You seem to have a general draft opinion not related to Robinson and if you’d like to post it in the mock draft thread, I can answer it there. This thread is for discussing Duke Robinson.
I'll take a holding penalty over a QB sack any day of the week.
As long as they are good holds, and not pointless ones. It’s safer for the QB that way, and there’s a chance the hold doesn’t get called.
I'd prefer a player who can beat a lineman without having to rely on a hold
Sure, a straight up hold is better then a straight up sack, but what happens when he gets called for holding were it wouldn’t have mattered to the play and you score a touchdown, which now gets called back? Or running plays, and now a big run gets called back? Holding penalties are usually pretty good drive killers.
That's why I said , "as long as they are good holds."
A good hold is one where the lineman was straight up beat, and had to hold in order to keep the play from failing. Bad holds are ones that serve no purpose, and just screw over the play in general. I was also wondering how many of Robinson’s holds were good ones, and how many were pointless holds.
Before the championship game.
Duke Robinson had very, very, few holds.
Weez the juice!!
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 4, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
That's what I thought too.
But John just said in the post that he had 8 in this last season alone.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Apr 4, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
8? Depends on the refs
and Bradford’s decision making. I think Barron had 8 holds in one game. Or was that false starts?
Sacks given up, perhaps?
Heh
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Apr 4, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Not that I question John's accuracy...
I can remember only 1 or 2 and that was most likely in the Texas game. I don’t remember any other game where he had any holds
Weez the juice!!
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 4, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
It's eight offensive penalites
I put eight holding penalties, and then edited it out. Eight offensive penalties is not so bad. Robinson does hold quite a bit, but then so do most offensive linemen.
Ruskell seems to like guys with options
I personally don’t know much about Duke other than he’s huge and strong. I have heard alot about his push and run blocking but I have heard alot about agility concerns.
I don’t know if that’s valid or not but I would think the centers in this draft give alot more versatility to the line in general unless he is the next Hutch so to speak.
Again nothing to base this on but if his agility really was all that good shouldn’t he also be considered an option at tackle as well?
I think this is a good point...
Massive OL with great footwork should be OT material, but scheme must be a consideration as well. In Seattle’s new zone blocking scheme, guards really are a poor mans version of a tackle, that is, they must have similar skill sets to those of a R or LT (agility and quick feet).
I think Seattle going to this type of scheme is genius from two aspects. First, you can typically find this type of OL (guard or tackle) at a better price because there isn’t as much emphasis on outright power (which teams pay for). Secondly, I think the versatility of this type of OL is great for a teams depth (in cases of injuries) because multiple players have the skill sets required to play multiple positions effectively.
Your snaps stat is a little off...
Duke was often subbed out. No idea why, but he probably played closer to 800 than 1100 snaps…

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