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The Grim Truth about Seattle's 2009 Defense

That's the smiling face of an anchor. Right is the man who must hope anchors don't sink.

More photos » by Ted S. Warren - AP

That's the smiling face of an anchor. Right is the man who must hope anchors don't sink.

How good can this defense be? This time last year, it seemed on the verge of elite. The Seahawks had the 11th ranked defense by DVOA, it was young, and to the human eye, 2007's defense looked capable of so much more. 2007 now seems like an over-hyped Pinkerton in light of 2008's retroactively bastardizing Maladroit. Not only did Seattle's defense crumble, but 2008 itself took some of the shine off 2007. Seattle faced offenses led by Matt Leinart, Trent Dilfer, Marc Bulger, Derek Anderson, Alex Smith, Rex Grossman, Gus Frerotte, AJ Feeley, Matt Moore, Troy Smith, Chris Redman, and Todd Collins in 12 of its 18 games. Was it any wonder then that it was fourth in the league in interceptions and first in the league in touchdowns allowed? Of those twelve, I figure only Leinart, Anderson and Grossman have the requisite arm strength to reach Brian Russell's overseer zone, and the three combined for 6.73 adjusted net yards an attempt. That's 0.1 yards better than Matt Hasselbeck's 2005.

2007 sits between a 20th ranked performance in 2006 and a 27th ranked performance in 2008. In light of the jobber's row of quarterbacks Seattle faced, 2007 looks like the outlier. Which is troubling, because this team isn't making the playoffs on the back of its offense.

No, Seattle's defense must step up, become above average and likely top-ten, for Seattle to be any kind of contender. I'm having trouble seeing how that's going to happen. Jim Mora has never done anything like that as a coach, where his Falcons were average to below average every season. He never did anything like that as a defensive coordinator, where his 49ers were average to below average every season. Gus Bradley is pure Tampa 2, and if you see a Tampa 2 talent on this roster not named Tatupu or Tapp, give me a heads up. Mebane could play the one, but Colin Cole fixes that. Maybe Bradley is an undiscovered genius, but there's no evidence of that, and it would be abnormal for a defensive minded head coach to hire a defensive mastermind to work beneath him. Mora, depressingly so, is supposed to be the defensive mastermind.

Here's how I think Seattle hopes things work. The run defense, powered by a suddenly beefy line and built around three run-killing linebackers becomes bona fide elite -- top three. The secondary contains and eliminates long pass plays. It does this by keeping Brian Russell deep and playing lots of zone defense. The combination keeps offenses on the field and opportunities for turnovers rolling in. It bends all day and breaks for the ball. It defies statistics; it creates turnovers.

How flawed is this model? Oh, horrendously. A team built around run defense is accentuating the least important single aspect of winning. At the same time, Seattle has mostly neglected its pass defense, likely even downgrading it. Pass defense is the second most important single aspect of winning. Make what you will of Rocky Bernard and his supposed decline, but he had more sacks for a 4-12 team than Colin Cole has for his career. The team shipped of its best pass rusher and did so to acquire a player that further buries its third best pass rusher. Cory Redding is an active and disruptive single-gap defensive tackle, but if injuries have forced him to drop weight and play end, he should be a situational run stopper, not starting over Darryl Tapp. Seattle's second best pass rusher, now first, is 32 and returning from his second season ending injury in three years. Seattle is not a team built to dominate with its pass rush, and with Brian Russell still presumably playing free safety, it's not a secondary built to allow the rush time to develop. Let's see how Ken Lucas likes playing Robinson Crusoe.

I like how Tim Ruskell scouts talent, and he appears to be a shrewd and successful businessman able to manage the salary cap and attract free agent talent. His contract is up after this season and he's banking on Seattle rebounding enough to get him re-signed. That might not happen, and it might not happen because of one of those glaring omissions that bedevil Ruskell. This time it's coaching. Ruskell really likes something about Jim Mora. He not only signed Mora, but signed Mora's former offensive coordinator. He's given Mora tools, tools to create a malicious Jim Johnson-style blitz defense. Let's hope that's what all this West Coast Defense nonsense is about, because beyond football platitudes about aggression and creating pressure from the front four, I don't see much more than a vanilla 4-3. Tim Ruskell has tied his future to Jim L. Mora and I'm not sure why, but am interested and terrified to find out. Interested and terrified, but not hopeful.

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Yeah, that's about my take on Mora, too

Ruskell’s attachment to the guy reminds me of Dick Williams and Rodney Scott.

BTW, did you mean Robinson Crusoe, or is this an operatic tenor I’ve never heard of? :)

by The Ancient Mariner on May 18, 2009 3:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not too psyched about this defense, and the biggest reasons are

safety and DT, which were my two biggests concerns going in. The third biggest concern was a cornerback, especially to defend a taller WR, and the signing of Lucas has allayed that fear.

If our defense plays poorly and Hass is out for even just a small period of time, I don’t think we have much of a shot of doing better than 7-9 or 6-10. The only good news is that perhaps we’ll have two top 10 picks, and get Gerald McCoy/ Suh and Eric Berry. It sucks for Ruskell, since there weren’t any safeties or DTs in free agency, and none that were worthy of being drafted in the early first round either (though whether or not he could have traded down with the Jets, then traded down twice more like Cleveland did, and perhaps traded down a few more times like NE is another discussion).

2010 Seahawks Mock: 1A: Eric Berry S, 1B: Ndamukong Suh DT, 2: Charles Brown OT, 4:Zac Robinson QB, 5: Stafon Johnson RB 6: Will Tukuafu DE, 7: Kerry Meier WR
Also acceptable, trade for Patrick Chung and draft Ed Wang so everyone can Wang Chung tonight.

by LantermanC on May 18, 2009 3:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Am I the only optimistic one about the 09 'Hawks?

I looked at the decline of our offense as the reason our defense stunk it up so much last season (think 07 Ravens).

Also, I don’t understand how putting Redding at his natural position, having a hopefully rehabbed Kerney (our biggest question mark I think), and Lojack with a year under his belt is a downgraded pass rush. Sure losing Peterson hurts, but overall it looks better to me.

Have some faith people! The Football Gods are not cruel enough to curse us with another 4-12 season!

by Tyopiod on May 18, 2009 3:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

How does our offense playing playing poorly affect our defense?

I agree it would make them more tired and give the opposition a better spot to start their drives, but if you remember the Giants game (I know, unfair to cherrypick our worst game), our defense just looked horrendous.

2010 Seahawks Mock: 1A: Eric Berry S, 1B: Ndamukong Suh DT, 2: Charles Brown OT, 4:Zac Robinson QB, 5: Stafon Johnson RB 6: Will Tukuafu DE, 7: Kerry Meier WR
Also acceptable, trade for Patrick Chung and draft Ed Wang so everyone can Wang Chung tonight.

by LantermanC on May 18, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many defenses looked good against the Giants?

And aren’t they set up pretty perfectly to exploit our under sized defense?

I was thinking our offense’s trouble to pick up first downs resulted in a more tired defense.

by Tyopiod on May 18, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seattle's defense wasn't undersized

it got crushed by a better team, not a larger team.

by John Morgan on May 18, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Undersized

is no longer a topic for Seattle.

If, IF, Seattle generates a pass rush from unseen force from 2008, then my whole attitude changes.

However, if we cannot make Warner, Romo et al move their feet, it won’t matter if Curry and the gang are the best three linebackers in the league.

Ruskell’s future, rightfully so, rests on Tapp, Jackson, Redding (ugh), and Kerney.

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on May 18, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you a "real" Seahawks fan?

Real of course meaning long-time, which is a synonym with long-suffering when it comes to Seattle sports. Haven’t you ever paid attention to what your relatives tell you? We’re a cursed city in sports.

by cashless on May 18, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look up.

Specifically, look up the page to Tyopiod’s comment. He said: Have some faith people! The Football Gods are not cruel enough to curse us with another 4-12 season! And in response, I said: Sure they are.

by The Ancient Mariner on May 19, 2009 4:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was a joke.

But I do believe our fortunes will turn for the better this season.

by Tyopiod on May 19, 2009 6:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

Meant to respond to his post, not yours.

by cashless on May 19, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Offense contributed.

The inability of our offense to sustain drives resulted in the defense being on the field too much. Last year’s TOP (time of possession): 26:37 sea | 33:39 opponents

by Misfit74 on May 18, 2009 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But how much of that is our defense not getting off the field on third down?

If a defense doesn’t want to stand out there for 8-12 minutes at a time, play really good on the first three downs and then go take a break.

by B.B.Finnegan on May 18, 2009 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But it isn't a big deal at all.

Case in point: 1992 Seahawks. Or at least I think it was the ‘92 squad. Despite being like 2-14 they still didn’t have a team dump over 30 points on them even once. That was a good defense. The current one isn’t.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, let me try making this point once again

If the problem is that a TOP ratio heavily tilted toward our opponents meant a tired defense, I would expect to see that effect mostly in the second and fourth quarters. But in many games, our defense gave up a lot of points in the first and third quarters, when they hadn’t yet been on the field long enough to get tired — unless they were more out of shape than I thought.

by Mr Fish on May 19, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jeez

I hope we’re as wrong this year as we were last year, but in the opposite direction. Pass rush MIGHT improve this year if one of the following happens without major injury to another component:
(1) Lawrence Jackson improves significantly;
(2) New DT situation (Mebane at 3, and Cole at 1 and Redding in the mix somehow – I don’t buy that he’s going to be a DE) replaces Bernard’s penetration and then some;
(3) Kerney regains some semblance of his 2007 studliness, i.e at least 7 sacks;
(4) Either Hill or Curry (probably Hill I guess) is allowed to blitz and does so effectively;
(5) Ken Lucas is such an improvement over Jennings that QBs no longer have a quasi-automatic go-to receiver and instead must work through progressions and get hit.

If two or three of those things happen (and, again, no major injuries elsewhere), we’ll probably have a pretty good to good pass rush. If one or zero happen we’ll probably be worse than last year and have two picks in the first ten come April 2010.

I don’t know that the odds are that great.

by jeager on May 18, 2009 3:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Regardless

I’m all in. I hope we get to see some serious over achievement. Perhaps a Dolphins experience.

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on May 18, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

But reliance on over-achievement is far from ideal. My assumption is that Ruskell, Mora, Bradley et al. have a plan and that their moves to date are in furtherance of that plan. Hope it’s a good one.

by jeager on May 18, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

All in as well...

I’m hoping this isn’t another painful season, but it does seem to be pinned on over-achievement from a lot of different positions on both sides of the ball.

I worry about what a post-Ruskell era might look like, so here’s hoping we having a winning season and can keep the devil we know.

by Professor on May 19, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is one more change in 2009, and it's hard to quantify

and that is the complete and utter lack of John Marshall. IMHO, the Seahawks defense was so goddamn predictable and oblivious under him. I have to think that someone else — ANYONE ELSE — as the D-coord must be a step up.

I think the defense is improved compared to 2008, but maybe not enough; we’ll have to play better than the sum of our parts to become elite (and it could happen, for all we know).

by J.L. White on May 18, 2009 4:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I figure the real wildcard here is Gus Bradley

Hopefully Mora’s seeming recognition of coaching talent strikes again and Bradley turns into something special.

by John Morgan on May 18, 2009 4:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't see how Bradley is relevant at all.

Mora is going to be calling plays, and unless Bradley’s the one drawing up the playbook, isn’t he just a figurehead until he goes somewhere else and inevitable becomes the next Steve Spagnuolo?

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 18, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would be why he's a wild card

Your scenario would be one extreme, Bradley having autonomous control over the defensive strategy and playcalling is another. We dont know what his role will be.

by Nate Dogg on May 18, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One thing you've pointed out that's been bothering me for awhile now is Mora's defensive track record

It ain’t all that great.

Yr/Points/Yards

Atlanta
2006 15 22
2005 18 22
2004 14 14

49ers
2003 21 13
2002 18 14
2001 9 13
2000 28 29
1999 30 28

by B.B.Finnegan on May 18, 2009 4:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's not even all that *good*, really

I’ve always thought he got the Falcons job more on nepotism and name recognition than on actual achievement.

by The Ancient Mariner on May 18, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Worst Analogy Ever

The time difference between Maladroit and Pinkerton makes any comparison between defense from year to the next just silly. Additionally Pinkerton was looked back on by critics an amazing album maybe ahead of it’s time and just not what we expected from them.

Bad bad bad. :)

by blackhalobender on May 18, 2009 4:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Interested and terrified, but not hopeful.

What is this, Doomsday?

Nah, it’s just football.

Chill out there, Morgan.

by C-addleCHox on May 18, 2009 5:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry for the day late reply to this

Is your point basically that we shouldn’t perceive anything wrong with a team because, after all, it’s just football? Did you read a post where JM was weeping and gnashing his teeth over how much his life sucks because the Hawks defense might not be that good? Was he berating God for allowing this to happen? For bringing Jim Mora into his pitiful excuse for a life? Or did you read an analysis piece that pointed out some possible reasons why our defense might not be all-world this coming season?

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on May 19, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Patrick Kerney had 14.5 sacks in 2007

a half a sack under 1/3 of our teams total (45). If we are switching to a Tampa 2 and need to pressure the QB with our front four, our defense’s season hinges on Kerney’s shoulder.

Or hope for Jackson to take a large step forward.

Also John, did you mean to write “West Coast Defense nonsense” in the last paragraph?

by PattyB on May 18, 2009 5:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

How would this defense fair in a zone blitzing scheme?

I don’t know a lot about zone blitzing but it seems like our personel would work really well.

by Nate Dogg on May 18, 2009 5:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It would, especially with Hill.

Like John points out, we have a grand total of about 2 traditional Tampa-2 personnel, the total increases to 5 if you tweak a few players (Trufant, Curry, Bryant). I really dislike how it looks like we’re going down this route.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 18, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

From my understanding, zone blitzing and the tampa 2 are two different schemes

I wonder if the coaches’ backround in Tampa 2 and their off season emphasis on aggressiveness will turn out to be some hybrid of the two systems.

Looking at the personnel it would seem to fit. Jackson and Tapp have both showed some ability to drop back into a zone, Curry and Hill should be effective blitzers and Curry and Tatupu are good in coverage, Wilson seems best fitted for a zone and is pretty disruptive rushing the passer, Grant and especially Russell shouldn’t ever be put into a man cover situation. With the exception of Hill this defense is seems to be built around flexibility.

by Nate Dogg on May 18, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A ploy at serving the masses a serious dose of realistic expectation?

Not sure, but my understanding was that Mora, Bradley, and his staff were creating a defense that was kind of a ‘best of’, if you will. Taking pieces from schemes to include the Tampa-2, but not limited to that. We will surely have some zone-blitzing going on but how much nobody knows. Exactly what type of defense we’ll be running is also pretty limited. Why make the masses privy to the information we seek?

One thing we do know is that they’ll play a lot of ‘4-3 Over’. We also know that we have a few guys who can play DE or DT depending on down (Redding, LoJack – though they’ve said he’ll focus on DE). Cole, ‘Bane, and Bryant can all play the 3-tech, though we’re sure Mebane is likely the mainstay there. The secondary is versatile, as well (yes, except one turd). Nickle/Dime blitzing from Josh Wilson I hope will continue. Hill should be unleashed after the QB regularly.

I think I’ll be impressed with the game-plans and versatility of those plans. Well, I hope to be. We could be surprised in a good way. We have plenty of things we can do and not John Marshall to do them. This staff has talked innovative and attacking all along. I don’t think our personnel is bad. We have quite a few nice pieces in place. Without getting carried away, I’m giving the new staff the benefit of the doubt. After last season, going up might not be so hard to do.

by Misfit74 on May 18, 2009 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, Russell is versatile

He can do anything you want a safety to do. He just can’t do any of it well.

by The Ancient Mariner on May 19, 2009 4:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sando is going to link to this soon, and this site's traffic will soon be flooded by hopelessly optimistic

ESPN board Seahawk fans who are certain we’re going to the NFC Championship.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 18, 2009 5:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

C'mon, admit it

deep down inside, you hope you’re wrong too :)

It’s one thing to be pragmatic, it’s another to lose hope.

I’m all in, regardless.

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on May 18, 2009 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course.

I want Curry to come in and prove he’s the potential Hall of Famer people allege him to be. I want Tatupu and Kerney to bounce back from their down seasons and once more become top 5 at their position. I want Leroy Hill to realize the potential he showed as a rookie and be a big part of our returning nightmarish pass-rush. I want our secondary to hide the spectacular failures of Brian Russell.

 I want Matt Hasselbeck to be healthy and return to the ranks of the elite. I want Julius Jones and TJ Duckett to become DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart. I want TJ Houshmandzadeh to prove he isn’t a product of Ocho Cinco. I want Branch to be the playmaker he once was. I want Walter Jones to cleat up and return for one last crack at glory.

I expect very little of this to happen, however. Even if our defense doesn’t suck (or miraculously becomes top 10), it’ll probably have more to do with Redding, Cole, and Bryant panning out in some way instead of Aaron Curry.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 18, 2009 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, it will probably have more to do with Curry

since the odds of Redding, Cole and Bryant all panning out are sub-microscopic. Heck, the odds of Cole panning out at all are sub-microscopic.

by The Ancient Mariner on May 18, 2009 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The odds of a linebacker being the difference-maker, especially a rookie

playing alongside two Pro-Bowl talents, is even less than sub-microscopic.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, gotta love the ESPN boardies.

A few days ago I saw a several paragraph long manifesto by one of them detailing the failings of this offseason, and how Holmgren would have done things so much better

It's great to be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on May 19, 2009 5:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Larry English would have been drafted #4 overall.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

XKCD may have perfectly described the new West Coast Defense

“Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they’re frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.” The cartoon could not be more unrelated however.

by Nate Dogg on May 18, 2009 6:20 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I wonder...

…if even though good run defense doesn’t correlate well to wins, if bad run defense could still correlate well to losing.

Hear me out: Teams don’t win games by just stopping the run, granted — you still have to stop the pass, and oh yeah, score points. BUT, a team that can’t stop the run is undeniably screwed — opponents can forego taking chances in the passing game in favor of taking the easier ground yards and wind up dominating time of possession (basically, you make every opponent look like the Panthers or Titans from last year). You’re gonna lose more than you win if your run D sucks.

Teams know this, so virtually every team manages to assemble at least a decent run defense to avoid being blown away by the run game, and thus rush defense loses statistical correlation with wins because, outside the elite run defenses, they’re all more or less equally effective.

by sev79 on May 18, 2009 6:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

something definitally seems screwy with those stats

all of the top run defenses this year had .500 or above records and most made the playoffs.

1. Min 10-6 playoffs
2. Pit 12-4 playoffs
3. Bal 11-5 playoffs
4. Phil 9-6-1 playoffs
5. Chi 9-7
6. Ten 13-3 playoffs
7. NYJ 9-7
8. Wash 8-8
9. NYG 12-4 playoffs
10. Mia 11-5 playoffs

by B.B.Finnegan on May 18, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think you can look at run defense by itself

A team that is dead last in pass defense might be top ten in run defense because nobody bothers to run against them, because it’s so easy to put up points through the air.

Another factor might be the number of close games they played. If their opponents rarely enjoyed a big lead, they wouldn’t be running in order to sit on it while using up the clock. (For example, consider a shootout between two teams with strong passing games.)

Context is everything.

by Mr Fish on May 19, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's partly true but doesn't tell the whole story

The opposite can also be true. A teem dead last in run defense might be top ten in pass because everybody just ran the ball on them through the whole game. So which is better then the other? But, when you look at stats you see an interesting trend, four of the top ten run defenses were indeed in the bottom half of pass defense, as you said, but even more interesting, the other six were in the top ten of pass defense.

Only Minnesota (18), Chicago (30), NY Jets (29), and Miami (25) were in the bottom half of the league in PD.

Pittsburgh (1), Baltimore (2), Philadelphia (3), Washington (7), NY Giants (8), and Tennessee (9) were all in the top ten in both.

Which just tells us what we already know, great defenses will be good at both. However, to try and come up with a formula to tell us which provides the most wins, is a hard sell. You’d have to come up with some kind of rating system for each category and rank individual teams in each category, because a win is a combination of all those things mentioned in the article, and it looks rather arbitrary that one is ranked above the other. Teams win due to a combination of each of the factors and some variables might be linked to others and I think it’s much more complicated then the model that guy came up with, though I do appreciate his efforts.

by B.B.Finnegan on May 20, 2009 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It makes sense.

Look at Oakland. Their passing defense is ‘good’ because few teams regularly throw at the frightfully overrated Nnamdi Asomugha – but even DeAngelo Hall’s replacement, Chris Johnson, had a statistically elite season.

But they lost games and were drafting in the top 10. Why? Because teams ran all over that ghastly run-defense. They could stack all 11 men in the box and they would still be blown back off the line.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Compare rosters of different Seahawks teams.

For instance, our SB roster on defense doesn’t really look better than the roster we have now. Were Herndon and Dyson better than current Trufant and Lucas? Hamlin better than Grant? How about the LBs? Certainly the LBs on our 2009 squad are better. Obviously we rode quite an offense that year, but the defense was still at least respectable. I think there’s a realistic chance that the (defensive) talent on our roster this season might be better than it was then.

by Misfit74 on May 18, 2009 8:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Two words

Marcus Tubbs. Although a very good offense certainly helped. Honestly though, this defense has always has pretty good players and has almost always constantly underperformed. But I still don’t buy that a dominating defense requires an offense. The Bears never get an offense, until maybe this year. Look at our dominating defense from 1992, one of our worst offenses ever. While i do agree one helps the other, I don’t think a good offense is required to have a really good defense.

by B.B.Finnegan on May 18, 2009 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tubbs was hurt a lot. Plus Mebane is an upgrade in my eyes. And we have Redding.

Current listening enjoyments: Grizzly Bear, Manchester Orchestra, The Morning Benders

by Woodinville_12thMan on May 18, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"And we have Redding"

That doesn’t inspire much confidence.

Mebane may be an upgrade over Tubbs to you, but overall that defensive tackle rotation was far better. Rocky Bernard at his best, a moderately good Chuck Darby, and Tubbs. Far better than a rotation of Mebane, a fringe NFL player in Colin Cole, an underwhelming career of Cory Redding, and a newb in Red Bryant.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tubbs wasn't hurt a lot in 2005, which was the year in comparison

And when healthy, a better player then Mebane. No discredit to Mebane, because I think he’s pretty damn good too, and overall certainly the better player simply because he can stay healthy for more then one season.

by B.B.Finnegan on May 19, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now I recall. I guess it was 06 when his kness crumbled forever.

Current listening enjoyments: Grizzly Bear, Manchester Orchestra, The Morning Benders

by Woodinville_12thMan on May 19, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1992 was awesome defensively.

Soul-crushing in every other sense of the word. The number of friggin’ draws we ran on 3rd and 8…

Your point, though, about good defenses is well taken. Baltimore is another good example of this consistently year-in, year-out.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on May 18, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defense was still respectable, yes.

But our offense was absolutely killer. Alexander basically killing the clock in the entire second half and the offensive line’s dominance led us to the SB.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This analysis is unnecessarily negative

I think the reason our defense was so much better in 07 than 06 or 08 was Kerney. If he is healthy enough to be effective that is instant pass rush. Now realistically there is a huge chance Kerney won’t be healthy and effective and if so our defense falls apart, but that wasn’t your argument.

Also, even is Mora is average to below average that is still a big improvement over Marshall’s stale vanilla schemes. Marshall never knew how to utilize Hill and our safety positioning last year was terrible. You choose to interpret our new coaches’ statements in the worst possible way (exclusive Tampa 2 with no blitzing and inept d-line personnel utilization) when such an interpretation requires the assumption that your argument is correct and Mora and Bradley are idiots. Maybe they are but I’m not taking your word for it.

Finally, no matter what anyone says an offense that can’t stay on the field hurts the defense. Mention could have been made of our sorry RB’s and how weakness at that position will negatively impact our ability to grind clock and keep the D rested, but you chose not to.

Rather than make a realistic analysis of the problems facing our defense you cherry-picked facts and made unwarranted assumptions in order to build your ridiculously gloomy argument. I don’t mind a little negativity but, please, at least try to make sense.

by t.hast12 on May 18, 2009 10:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Do you see what happens JM?

You give a realistic assessment of our situation, and a lot of people accuse you of being a negative Nancy. You should’ve just gone the route of the 49ers blog writer and give our defense a B grade when it’s really possibly below average. Highlight the positives, ignore the negatives, that’s what some readers want apparently.

In all seriousness, I think John Morgan realizes the positives for the defense. We all do, because we’re Seahawks fans. John Morgan wouldn’t be such a great writer and Seahawks analyst if he didn’t look at every angle and envision all possible scenarios. Do we have the personnel to be a top 10 defense? Sure if everything goes right, but there are a lot of if’s in there. Do Cole and Redding surprise and play adequate run stuffing D, and even if they do, does Kerney stay healthy, and does LoJack show why he was a 1st round pick? Does Lofa revert back to being one of the most cerebral playmaking MLB in the NFL, and does Curry become a tackling coverage machine, and does Hill show us his quarterbacking sacking prowess from his rookie campaign? Does Lucas still have some left in the tank, and does Trufant play like a top 5 cb, or merely an above average one? Does Russell not play like the worst defensive player in the NFL?. If everything pans out realistically, we’re still not a top 5 defense.
Are there some huge red flags and major concerns regarding players fitting a scheme and whether or not the coaches can coach the new scheme? Yes. 2 out of 3 years as a below average defense is a red flag, and I hope the new coaching staff turns it around, though like most of FG, I have serious doubts as to whether or not they have the brains or the proper players to do so.

2010 Seahawks Mock: 1A: Eric Berry S, 1B: Ndamukong Suh DT, 2: Charles Brown OT, 4:Zac Robinson QB, 5: Stafon Johnson RB 6: Will Tukuafu DE, 7: Kerry Meier WR
Also acceptable, trade for Patrick Chung and draft Ed Wang so everyone can Wang Chung tonight.

by LantermanC on May 18, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

There are many reasons to be optimistic. This could be a special defense. We have some quality players who if put in the correct scheme and with some injury luck could be elite. Then again if they are like last year and continually out of position and hurt, it could be a long season again.

by stufr on May 19, 2009 4:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

John Morgan.

Field Gull’s very own Negative Nancy.

But yeah, I’d rather have John inform us of the possible worst outcomes so we’re at least somewhat prepared if it happens rather than a rosy (and false) outlook that comes crushing down later.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm saying it's not "realistic"

Kerney’s impact is glossed over. Assumptions are made that support his argument, for instance Bradley is “pure Tampa 2” and Tapp will definitely be buried in the depth chart no matter what happens in camp. To be honest Lanterman I think your post addressed the issues with this defense much more realistically and completely than Morgan’s “analysis” and you presumably wrote that off the top of your head.

by t.hast12 on May 19, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, Kerney's impact is not glossed over.

He’s well past 30 and has a history of frequent and severe injuries. Even if he’s healthy, Kerney could significantly decline simply due to age and it shouldn’t surprise anyone one bit.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One sentence

about a player who, whether you think he’ll be healthy or not, is admittedly our best pass rusher and upon whose fragile shoulder the success of our entire defense may rest? If that isn’t glossing over what is?

by t.hast12 on May 19, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Semantics

but I’d say that’s establishing a perhaps false (or at least dramatic) dichotomy that either Kerney again competes for DPOY and we’ll be OK, or his shoulder shits the bed and there goes 2009. It’s one thing to put the season on Hasselbeck’s disc-bulged back, which is how I sum up our chances, but this is a bit more unrealistic.

And on that account I agree with you. But you’re emphasizing “glossing over,” as though he’s ignoring a substantial component of the defense that is very likely to continue, that realistically ought to make a big difference for the defense. That’s not the case. We all realize the impact he has made, and now, wondering whether he will again or not, and being quite uncertain about the reliability of any contingencies should he not return to form, is the issue that’s being faced, here.

It’s not whether Kerney is good when he’s good, it’s whether we can count on him at all.

by jacobstevens on May 19, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you are overestimating Kerney

He had five sacks in seven games last season; Seattle averaged over 26 points allowed in those games.

by John Morgan on May 19, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

but the fact is you hardly mentioned him in an article that bashes the Hawks for disregarding the pass rush. Besides, that was just one aspect of my criticism, which I think is valid.

by t.hast12 on May 19, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're rapidly approaching troll territory.

Yes, John didn’t really talk about Kerney, or about how much the defense was on the field, or about how predictable Marshall’s play-calling was. He also didn’t talk about potential sophomore jumps from Lo-Jack or Red or about our new acquisitions. This is all neither here nor there.

Take a look at what John is saying again: This team’s success hinges on the strength of it’s defense; the true talent level of our players is probably more in line with 2006 and 2008 than with 2007; and our supposed defensive whizzes historically ran squads that were ineffective, employing schemes that are ill-suited to our personnel. He is identifying systemic flaws in the team’s logic, and you are countering with “maybe Kerney’s a beast again and John Marshall sucks.”

by sammy on May 19, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Way to accurately summarize my argument

My point is that he made a number of assumptions regarding the defensive staff’s plans for the team, which are not necessarily supported, and drew conclusions based on those assumptions. He notes, for instance, that we have the players to field a blitzing defense but inexplicably predicts that we won’t. All I’m doing then is “identifying systemic flaws” in Morgan’s logic.

by t.hast12 on May 19, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can I accurately summarize your argument?

John Morgan sucks because he didn’t include Patrick Kerney, John Marshall, and a bad offense into his analysis. Those aren’t systemic flaws in logic. As people have stated, Kerney is on the wrong side of 30 and is a strong candidate for a downturn (which already started last season). John Marshall sure did suck last season, but it is hard to be super optimistic about Mora’s impact on the defense when you look at his historical track record. Sure we had a bad offense, but so did the Ravens and Bucs for multiple years during their fantastic runs of great defense (ex. Kyle Boller, Shaun King), as well as the Hawks during their all-time best defense of 1992.

The point of this post isn’t to say that the Hawks will for sure have a below-average defense. The point is that there are reasons for concern.

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on May 19, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pinkerton is one hell of a great recording.

Current listening enjoyments: Grizzly Bear, Manchester Orchestra, The Morning Benders

by Woodinville_12thMan on May 18, 2009 10:15 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'm pessimistic about this years defense too

Last year it was pretty ugly, and this year, it shouldn’t be a whole lot better. Maybe if one of our D line players really steps their game up. With that being said, I think we are in a division where we could be vying for a playoff spot

by TheSteelersRuinedMyBirthday on May 18, 2009 10:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Seems to me

I think the biggest concern is D-Line. HOPEFULLY Russell will be a non-issue if Tru can keep playing at the level he has been, and Ken Lucas can step his game back up even just a notch.

If the Hawks do stink it up next year, wouldn’t it be nice to see Ruskell leave and be replaced by the guy that actually built the only Seahawks team to ever go to a superbowl? I know this is a fantasy, but how awesome would it be to see Holmgren come back to replace Ruskell and eventually take over as Offensive Coordinator.

by dundundun on May 18, 2009 11:08 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh no, here we go.

Let the Holmgren-watch begin.

I don’t think it would be particularly “awesome” to see Holmgren back.

by djafrot on May 19, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The notion that Holmgren

would come back as GM and eventually demote himself to Offensive Coordinator under Mora is surreal in more than one way.

by Hawkdawg on May 19, 2009 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The offensive coordinator part sent me over the edge.

That was funny.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Holmgren as GM concept is here to stay

When you are a defensive minded GM, have picked a defensive player as your top pick in 4 of 5 years, debacled the interior line with late draft picks and some poor judgement, overpaid for suspect Free agents at RB/SS/DT, and fallen in love with draft picks rather than being honest with performance, one has rightly invited the conversation.

Ruskell would be a great President of Operations. Holmgren, for all those busts, still found “game changing” talent. Not just good people who play football; real talent. Give me back my boom or bust.

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on May 19, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Holmgren GM story is moronic

Even if the team doesn’t re-sign Ruskell, why would it rehire Holmgren? There’s hundreds of candidates Seattle could choose from. Why would it pick one it’s already been forced to demote?

by John Morgan on May 19, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, Jim Mora Jr. was unceremoniously fired from a crappy franchise like Atlanta.

And we’re banking on him to improve as a coach and change the team and hopefully be the mainstay at head coach for many seasons in the future. It wouldn’t be a stretch to think whoever runs things would be fine with giving Holmgren another go, since he did indeed piece together most of the Super Bowl winning team.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holmgren stepped down in 2002

I think you should look at that roster again. He left a mess.

Holmgren’s major contributions to 2005 was Hutchinson, Hasselbeck, Bernard, Engram, Alexander, Tobeck, Gray, Lewis, Stevens, Jackson and Morris. Some great players and some role players.

Almost the entire defense was assembled by Whisitt and Ruskell. Ruskell, in one offseason added: Joe Jurevicius, Kelly Herndon/Andre Dyson (who combined to make a competent cornerback), Bryce Fisher, Chuck Darby, Hill, Tatupu, Kevin Bentley and Josh Scobey. Some great players and some role players.

There’s no comparison between who had the greater impact on 2005, but to say Holmgren assembled most of the team is just wrong.

by John Morgan on May 19, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand.

But what I meant and didn’t clarify the Super Bowl team was obviously based around the offense’s success, which was almost wholly built by Holmgren.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The offense was its best component

it was built around a good, for once, deep roster that had great talent on offense and defense. Neither GM receives credit for Seattle’s best overall player, Walter Jones, and without Jones that offense isn’t sniffing greatness. No one GM deserves credit for that run. In reality, given Holmgren had four years and left a shallow, defenseless mess, and Ruskell just one year, Ruskell deserves more credit for what he did.

by John Morgan on May 19, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree completely

The problem here I think is people tend to pick one side or the other, make it a black and white issue, but it’s not. I think they both did some very good things, Holmgren certainly knew how to build an offense, but knew nothing about defense. Ruskell balanced that error out. I only wish now is that Ruskell doesn’t do the opposite and completely ignore the offense. I think they’re both pretty decent evaluators of talent, but I give a slight edge to Ruskell. I actually think it’s kind of funny when someone picks one of them and says how terrible the other is, because it’s so obviously not true. They both have their good and bads.

by B.B.Finnegan on May 19, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair point

I stand by the fact that Holmgren is the only GM who built a super bowl caliber team in Seattle.

What Ruskell did could have been done by any good defensive mind.

I, personally, would be willing to win with Holmgren’s keen eye for QB, the most important position in football, and combine him with a Defensive Master Mind, as you mention earlier in this post.

Holmgren with, say Mike Smith, or dare I say it, Wade Phillips.

While I understand your position on Holmgren from the past, he is the best GM we have ever had. Warts and all.

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on May 19, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My estimation of GM's

Ruskell – GM not to lose
Holmgren – Let’s effing win the whole thing

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on May 19, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holmgren was demoted after a 7-9 season and his teams were bad to mediocre.

He didn’t build a Super Bowl caliber team. He helped build a Super Bowl caliber team.

by John Morgan on May 19, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps my blinders are on

I cannot argue the helping part. He is the first to do so. I’d still welcome him back.

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on May 19, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will look forward to Ruskell or New Guys record

when breaking in a new QB

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on May 19, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you remember Lamar King?

How was that “Let’s effing win the whole thing?”

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on May 19, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He even drafted Brock Huard in the third, bless his soul

And even picked up undrafted Jon Kitna.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I do understand the arguments about Holmgren as a GM and the like,

I’m just saying the thing about him ever running the team on a football level, especially as an offensive coordinator, is hysterical.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Overpaid for suspect FA?

RB? JJ is not overpaid. Shaun Alexander I believe received an extension, so he wasn’t a FA.
SS? Deon Grant isn’t overpaid. Unless you meant Brian Russell, and I believe he makes almost nothing anyways.
DT? Colin Cole? Again, he doesn’t make much, but you can’t call the move a failure until it’s at least partially played out. People were calling the Steve Nash signing a failure when Phoenix offered him a max contract.

My biggest grip with Ruskell is his refusal to draft players from small schools, and his ‘safe’ picks in the first round. They’re not even that safe, as we have seen, since safe would imply average or just below average starters. I suppose more of an emphasis on offense would be nice as well, but it’s hard to judge on that since our offense for the most part has never been a problem.

2010 Seahawks Mock: 1A: Eric Berry S, 1B: Ndamukong Suh DT, 2: Charles Brown OT, 4:Zac Robinson QB, 5: Stafon Johnson RB 6: Will Tukuafu DE, 7: Kerry Meier WR
Also acceptable, trade for Patrick Chung and draft Ed Wang so everyone can Wang Chung tonight.

by LantermanC on May 19, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Deon Grant IS overpaid.

Colin Cole is not worth a 20 million contract.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to follow you around on this one, but

What if it was Colin Cole for 20 million or nobody? Sometimes players want to play elsewhere and we have to overpay or the market is so limited we end up with what we got. There were not a lot of decent options available. Haye quickly signed with the Titans, if I remember correctly…and he’s a different type of player.

by Misfit74 on May 19, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This depends on whether Ruskell was already bent on trading Julian Peterson for Cory Redding.

In that case, we could have saved the money for something else.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 19, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm getting irritated with all of the talk of

JJ and TJ being overpaid. I want to see a full season of them before making a judgement. So far, we haven’t gotten that. All we have gotten is a taste of the future while MoMo and Weaver were still in the mix. I don’t think JJ is overrated at all, and I think he’ll have a great year. TJ is a short yardage monster.

It's great to be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on May 19, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question:

Why not hire who you think could be a defensive mastermind to work underneath you? Are we assuming Mora has some extremely huge ego or something? Look at other coaching situations and you see so-called defensive masterminds working under the head coach frequently. Rex Ryan under Billick and Harbaugh, Monte Kiffin under Gruden, Jim Johnson under Reid, etc. I would hope that the head coach wants to surround himself with the best coaches he can procure – not avoid doing so out of insecurity for one’s own job or because of ego.

 I think Mora knows that Bradley learned under Kiffin and believes is ready to take the next step, as well as help him implement the schemes we’ll run, which obviously will include some Tampa-2. The jury is out on both Bradley and Mora’s product as of yet, but I don’t think we can dismiss the addition of Bradley because he’ll work under Mora. Mora found a good fit to implement his system who comes from a solid coaching tree and specific defensive background. I guess anything short of having a Rex Ryan/Steve Spagnulo/Jim Johnson type at D-coordinator might simply be unsatisfying to some.

I agree, there is a lack of evidence. There has been the same lack of evidence for many new coaching staffs who went on to be successful. I much prefer a fresh, hungry young staff to that of a long-time retread like Green, Fassil, Vermeil, Gibbs, even the master of ‘Martyball’. I’m usually an optimist, so John’s post will help balance out my thinking, but I’m still hopeful and excited. I think we have the pieces in place to do some damage this year – and field a top-10 defense. As pointed out, above, some things will have to go right. Kerney and the DLine, especially. Hopefully, Russell plays better if he starts, or (zing!) Adams improves enough to get time.

by Misfit74 on May 19, 2009 8:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not to shortstop your post, but
Rex Ryan under Billick and Harbaugh, Monte Kiffin under Gruden, Jim Johnson under Reid, etc

Are examples of offense-minded head coaches hiring defensive masterminds. Mora is a defense-minded head coach and therefore should be Seattle’s defensive mastermind.

by John Morgan on May 19, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This has me thinking about who exactly is going to be calling our plays on defense

From Danny O’Neil (for what its worth) a while ago:

Now, we’ll find out for sure next week when he conducts his first press conference as Seahawks coach, but the expectation around the league is that Mora is going to call the Seahawks defense.

Also, if indeed this “West Coast Defense” is essentially a Tampa-2, where do some of our players fit in? Because Jamar Adams is a more in-the-box strong safety, lacking in coverage skills, we’re likely to see another season of B-Russ whiffing on everything.

Trufant and Lucas fit well as physical corners who can tackle. We have our undersized yet fast linebacker in Tatupu. Curry will be great against the run and in coverage. But where the hell does Hill fit in? Granted he should be the one blitzing when we do blitz, Tampa 2’s typically use free safeties to blitz. UGH.

by PattyB on May 19, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

never mind

all Mora’s said is “it’s fluid,” and everyone expects he will.

by jacobstevens on May 19, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think they're hoping that the pass rush will create pressure

and Russell won’t be as responsible covering the deep balls alone as he was last year.

I am totally convinced that Ruskell was after Patrick Chung in round 2. Russell may not be worth a damn, but I don’t think there’s any talent out there worth paying to replace him.

It's great to be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on May 19, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except that Kiffin also coordinated for Dungy.

And I think it’s moot. I take Misfit’s question to be valid. For Mora to be a defensive coach and for him to hire a defensive coordinator inherently suggests nothing at all as to the likelihood that Bradley will be a mastermind or not. Which is only significant because you seem to be suggesting that Bradley under Mora is significant for some reason. If there is a reason, it’s lost on me.

by jacobstevens on May 19, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a balance of power

A head coach usually hires a like-minded coordinator to assist him and an opposite-minded coordinator to complement him. In other words, Greg Knapp is the top ranking offensive coach for Seattle and will write the playbook and call the plays. Gus Bradley is not the top ranking defensive coach for Seattle and will not write the playbook or call the plays. Now, maybe Mora is the collaborative type, I could see that, and maybe he will work with Bradley to the benefit of each, but even then, Bradley isn’t a mastermind. He’s a subordinate that’s maybe able to make his boss better.

by John Morgan on May 19, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess so

I see what you mean. I still don’t think it’s significant. But I get it.

by jacobstevens on May 19, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point.

Tom Coughlin and Spagnulo might be more applicable. And what about Mike Tomlin and Dick LeBeau?

by Misfit74 on May 19, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coughlin is a former wide receivers coach

He’s an offense minded coach. LeBeau was pre-existing and was and still is bigger and more important to Pittsburgh than Tomlin.

by John Morgan on May 19, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, I've always thought of Coughlin as a defensive guy.

You’re absolutely right. The whole disciplinarian perception spoke of defense to me, but nope. Regardless, I see your point and all this is not super important because we know that Mora will have a major role with the defense. Given that, I hope Mora improves on those average defensive units he’s been a part of in the past.

by Misfit74 on May 19, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess my take is

we ought to put this in some sort of a bell curve. Defensive proficiency likelihood. For all that 2007 looks like an outlier, there has to be something quite significant for the defensive performance to NOT regress back to the mean.

I’m eagerly waiting for FO’s PDF (since they’re not publishing PFP this year) to see how Seattle fared on 3rd downs compared to 1st & 2nd, against the rest of the league. My memory of my frustrations suggest it’s more likely for this defense to rebound at least back to average than to remain horrendous.

It’s more likely that the defense remains horrendous than for it to be top 10, I think. I think the only factor that can make it great is for WCD to work out, to really be a hot new thing for the league.

But both of those are quite a bit less likely than for the defense to bounce back a bit, having some problems — most likely to me, deep pass defense/safety help, or run defense/long runs allowed, with mid-range passes generally pegged and most runs generally stuffed — and more or less being about as good as the 2005 defense. Good cumulative pressure that sometimes just isn’t there, goodish run & pass defense, generally keeping the team in every game to the end. Not so great to carry the offense. But enough to give the team a chance to win against a softish schedule.

by jacobstevens on May 19, 2009 10:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

And when we do

Ask yourself who had career years on 2005:

Stevens – Holmgren
Hasselbeck – Holmgren
Hutch – Holmgren
Jones – Whitsitt?
Tobeck – Holmgren
Gray – Holmgren
Locklear – Holmgren
Alexander – Holmgren
DJ – Holmgren
Jerivicous – Ruskell
Dyson – Ruskell
Tatupu – Ruskell
Hill – Ruskell
Tubbs – Holmgren
Bernard – Holmgren
Engrahm – Holmgren
Josh Brown – Holmgren

Do the math guys.

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on May 19, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Ruskell took over a 2005 team that was a mess

What does that say for 2008?

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on May 19, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair to Ruskell,

unless he completely rehauled the roster in one year, he couldn’t make that much of a mark.

2010 Seahawks Mock: 1A: Eric Berry S, 1B: Ndamukong Suh DT, 2: Charles Brown OT, 4:Zac Robinson QB, 5: Stafon Johnson RB 6: Will Tukuafu DE, 7: Kerry Meier WR
Also acceptable, trade for Patrick Chung and draft Ed Wang so everyone can Wang Chung tonight.

by LantermanC on May 19, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

but Seattle won with offense (aside from the Washington Division game).

Perhaps I am stupid.

Ask yourself: to you expect a super bowl from Seattle today?

Ask yourself: do you expect a super bowl from Mora

Ask yourself: did you expect as super bowl from Holmgren?

Holmgren, in my opinion, did something much harder than get a few decent defensive players. He change “culture”. Prior to Holmgren, we were the definition of mediocre. I suggest we are headed back to being that definition once again.

I would love a Holmgren needing a few defensive pieces to appear in a Super Bowl of the travesty of “safe” defensive picks that turn complete washout or role player GM that is Ruskell.

Give me something to believe in again.

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on May 19, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you miss how irrational most of your arguments are
Ask yourself: to you expect a super bowl from Seattle today?

Ask yourself: do you expect a super bowl from Mora

Ask yourself: did you expect as super bowl from Holmgren?

You’re appealing to emotions, almost gallingly so.

Back on-topic or future posts will be deleted. You can return to this when we actually discuss Holmgren versus Ruskell, and when we do, I would suggest facts over feelings, because this argument is getting thin and quickly.

by John Morgan on May 19, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on May 19, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They've given me something to believe in

Holmgren’s archaic and overly complex offense is gone. We’ve added more talent than we’ve subtracted this offseason. Next year we have two first rounders, one of which is practically guaranteed to be a top 10 or 15.

It's great to be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on May 19, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

C’mon July. You guys are really making me wanna see someone hit someone. I think the Hawks schedule this year is brutal. Is this really the time to try this new west coast defense? Seattle is a vet team, play a vet scheme. Maybe we host a playoff game by not being a gimmick defensive type squad. Thank God Marshall is history, that makes anything possible.

I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.

""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."

His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.

by Dragonage on May 19, 2009 1:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Welcome to Field Gulls.

In the future, it would be appreciated if you use the subject line in your comments.

by BrianL on May 19, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And if you sig wasn't three paragraphs long

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on May 19, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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