Speculation and Vick
Michael Vick gets his release from prison today. As you might imagine, columns speculating about Vick's return are popping up like dandelions. John Clayton wrote one such article, and for some reason believes that the Seahawks will have an interest in Vick.
Those of you with an astute eye will have noticed that Clayton's top three "possibilities" for Vick are in the NFC West. Vick's 2004-2006 seasons averaged a DYAR of -242. That's not good. Even when Vick was fully immersed in football, his ability as a thrower left a lot to be desired.
As I'm up against a meeting here, I'll leave you guys to discuss the reasons why Vick wouldn't be a good fit for the Seahawks. I'll come back and try to moderate a discussion on where Vick would fit well. Be respectful of other opinions, and please stay away from dogfighting jokes and the like, as that will distract from the point of the discussion. Stay on point, people.
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Coach killer
I know Mora has said all the right things concerning Vick to the public, the idea that he would want to bring him on board is simply absurd. He got handicapped with Vick in Atlanta, there’s know way in hell he’s going do it all over again, and this time to himself. No way Ruskell does it either. Or Knapp.
Totally agree.
All these reporters that speculate on the ’Hawks just because of the “Mora connection” fail to realize that it was a BAD one.
The move doesn’t make sense from any angle. They have 3 years of experience to know that Vick the QB is not a fit for Knapp’s O. And if they were wanting a “wildcat” or trick play guy, they already have Seneca – who isn’t quite the athlete, but could do the job without the likely PR shitstorm and distractions.
I have no problem with the NFL letting Vick back in. Honestly, I think that if he re-enters the league as a reclamation project, without all the pressure of “revolutionizing the QB position” that used to be attached not only to him, but whatever team was going to try and develop him, that he now has a better chance of finding his right niche and being used in ways that maximize his talents. I could see him as a RB/WR that gets about 10-12 touches a game – like a Reggie Bush or Percy Harvin that’s also a threat to occasionally throw.
I just don’t see any plausible way it happens here. My bet is on New England – he seems like the textbook example of the types of guys they’re able to buy cheap, keep straight, and find the absolute best fit for.
I guess I should read what abender said before I post.
NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!
by Scruffy Lefty on May 20, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Who cares?
What’s he going to do, ban you?
2010 Seahawks Mock: 1A: Eric Berry S, 1B: Ndamukong Suh DT, 2: Charles Brown OT, 4:Zac Robinson QB, 5: Stafon Johnson RB 6: Will Tukuafu DE, 7: Kerry Meier WR
Also acceptable, trade for Patrick Chung and draft Ed Wang so everyone can Wang Chung tonight.
by LantermanC on May 20, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Under a yahoo link I found this gem.
1) San Francisco — The 49ers have the worst quarterbacking situation in the league and play in the division that is most up-for-grabs. Cast disciplinarian Mike Singletary as the gruff, but kind-hearted, coach willing to give a guy a second chance and this pairing could work. Ownership has been coy about the possibility of getting Vick, but so has that of every other team.
So much for Fooch’s B grade.
NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!
Listening to Clayton on Kiro 710 on the way home from work
or in the morning on Saturdays, I have to say, Clayton is great on radio. He knows what he’s talking about, his voice is surprisingly good for radio (my expectations were probably low because of his looks), and he answers the questions he is asked and doesn’t cut his listeners off.
I’ll have to say no to Vick, if only because he will be like watching Felix play only 10x worse. People are always blinded by the cannon arm, the superman speed, and the Barry Sanders elusiveness, that the frustration of watching him fail will always be that much worse. With Vick, it always seems like it’s two steps forward, two steps back, yet you think it’s two steps forward one step back, so you’re fooled into thinking you’re heading in the right direction when you’re really just back at square one.
2010 Seahawks Mock: 1A: Eric Berry S, 1B: Ndamukong Suh DT, 2: Charles Brown OT, 4:Zac Robinson QB, 5: Stafon Johnson RB 6: Will Tukuafu DE, 7: Kerry Meier WR
Also acceptable, trade for Patrick Chung and draft Ed Wang so everyone can Wang Chung tonight.
Yeah, I remember listening to Clayton on All Night with Jason Smith and was surprised he didn't sound like a complete dork.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on May 20, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
He was a great athlete who never became a good QB
and I can’t imagine that time in prison has improved either of those things. On the football field, he might make sense for a team looking to run some version of the Wildcat that already had a good field general, if he was humble enough to be the second banana — which I doubt. Otherwise, pass.
by The Ancient Mariner on May 20, 2009 9:14 AM PDT reply actions
How much would he cost?
We have a track record of high character players, allowing few to stray too far before they are sent away. Like Koren Robinson, I think Vick is stupid, but will still root for him to do well as I think he may actually be remorseful. But also like Koren, he will be isolated as the ‘bad seed’ and won’t be able to get away with much unless the coaches really believe in him.
At a low cost, he may be a good financial move for the hawks. Maybe we do something ridiculous like go to the wildcat 10 plays a game. Then he becomes something to watch and we IMMEDIATELY pick up a flex schedule game, maybe two if he’s actually relevant. And with no real expectations at QB, he can force a decision on Seneca (QB? PR/KR? WR?). I imagine both are in the same category as far as ‘QB skills’ are concerned and having someone like Vick threaten his #2 QB status might get something to shake loose (Note that I am still a HUGE Seneca fan and just want to see him on the field more!)
I can’t say I’m 100% for bringing him in, but Mora can keep an eye on him and maybe be the reason Vick would come here. But, if less than a mil guaranteed, he’s worth a look.
Passion, Character, 12th Man, Excellence
I can’t even begin to consider if Vick would be a good fit in Seattle, it’s so far out of the realm of possibility. Can anyone here see Ruskell giving the okay to this? It took to total decimation of the receiving corps, Holmgren’s lobbying and intensive self rehabilitation before he would okay Koren coming back. Won’t happen.
I really don't get the speculation either
It just doesn’t seem to fit Ruskell’s character requirements.
I’m all for reform and second chances, but so far the only time I’ve seen the ’Hawks pick up on that under Ruskell is in WR injury desperation mode.
So why are the Seahawks being listed? Not just by ESPN, Yahoo!’s Chris chase seems to think him a likely candidate too (this is what Scruffy Lefty mentioned. The 49ers quote is gold).
Honestly I just don’t get it. I’m not up for crucifying Vick despite the fact that I’m pretty big on animal rights. You do the crime you do the time and that’s it, being suspended for lying or not is fair. But Vick is an over-the-top, under-trained, never-lived-up-to-his-potential QB. Even without the dog fighting I wouldn’t like him in Seattle…
Also, a list of comeback athletes Vick is still a young guy. He’ll land somewhere eventually. I just don’t see him in Seattle.
Oakland is my bet. 5-years, 25 million guaranteed :D
Reason A: he wasn't very good
People keep forgetting that he kept getting worse as a QB, not better. Does he want to be a punt returner?
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace R.I.P.
Forget football -- of all the places in the country to bring a "reformed" animal killer
Seattle has to be on the bottom of the list. Seriously.
Don’t put too much stock in speculation by reporters. It’s kind of like when the coaching carousel starts in college and they start looking for connections — any kind of connection — that might fill up air time.
Ruskell would never bring someone
with Vick’s character into the locker room.
It's great to be a Florida Gator!
That's what I thought
Our offense could include conventional plays with Hasselbeck, and unconventional plays with Vick and Seneca, the way they were thinking of using Shaub and Vick except better. Both Seneca and Vick have skills other than throwing, and Seneca can catch. It could be crazy cool.
I can’t see him being a Seahawk though, because I don’t think Ruskell takes that chance AND because I don’t see Vick accepting such a reduced role unless he had a chance to be a full-time Randel El type WR, and we have a lot of WRs already. I don’t see either side considering Seattle a good fit, unless Knapp wanted to make good on the crazy two-QB idea he was considering back in the day.
So it's fairly clear that we're all against Vick as a Seahawk.
I believe in giving people second chances, I just don’t feel the need to bring a more athletic but worse passing Seneca into the mix. He’s not the QB of the future, he’s not the QB of the present, and I don’t want to read the 200 articles that will go along with his signing.
Next topic of discussion: Where does Vick belong?
Will he get blackballed a la Barry Bonds?
Shouldn’t some team just bring him in to run the Wildcat (the first columnist to make a Wild Dog joke gets a lifetime supply of disgust)?
Who is desperate enough to do something like this?
by abender20 on May 20, 2009 10:41 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Arena League.
That would be fun.
NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!
by Scruffy Lefty on May 20, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
My idea
Completely from left field, but what about Minnesota? IF they can be convinced he wants to work hard and rehab his image into a ‘good guy’ – he’s better than tarvaris, and a backfield with him and AP would be almost impossible to gameplan for. This all assumes farmer Brett stays retired, of course.
Tampa might take a chance, too.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace R.I.P.
Or
Saskatchewan Roughriders
NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!
by Scruffy Lefty on May 20, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I applaud your ability to spell Saskatchewan.
But they already have one of the CFL’s best QB’s.
New England
This just looks like one of those moves they pull off and have success with, buying talent cheap and having character issues go away one they’re assimilated into that locker room. They’re also one of the few teams that could probably get away with it from a PR standpoint.
It strikes me as a very Belicheck move – take the one innovation your division foe had last year, and then turn around and crush them with it by executing it better, and with better talent.
Wild Dog? I laughed.
Please hand me my ticket to hell with my coffee, thanks.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on May 20, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
49'ers.
They just lost Walt Harris. Vick could compete with Clements for starting CB position.
It's great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on May 20, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Excellent.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on May 20, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I would not be entirely surprised to see Seattle take a look.
No one else in this league has worked with Vick as closely as Mora and Knapp. We need a QB of the future, this kid is young, and – whether you agree with the why’s or not – he has won a playoff game.
Bringing him in does not mean installing him as the starter. In fact, having Matt here and having two #1’s next year will mean evern MORE flexibility for Ruskell next year, which he loves.
He’d come very, very cheap, and even with a starter already here could be an exceptional 3rd and short or trick-play QB… especially considering that if we already have a “traditional” QB opposing defenses won’t be able to game-plan as much like they did in Atlanta.
Morally I have no issues with him being here. I know we all like to get on our high-horses, and killing pets is disgusting, but I’ll bet you there are at least two or three current Seahawks who have done worse. And the team knows about it. Vick has done time and should be eager to prove himself. Where better than a smaller-market team like Seattle?
The one very big block on this is Ruskell’s need to prove himself pretty soon. I would think he’d be scared of risks at this point.
He's almost thirty.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on May 20, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Huge Question Here:
How does Vick pass the Ruskell Character filter?
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
by iverson2169 on May 22, 2009 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Ruskell showed no interest in Terrell Owens that I know of
so I think he would take a similar stance on a similar PR headache.
Also, I’m not convinced he would be as cheap as some seem to think with teams like Oakland and Cincinnati quite possibly driving his market price up.
Since I'm here to play devil's advocate, I'll address this.
Vick and Owens are two different types of PR nightmare. The media clusterfuck surrounding T.O. is due primarily to the fact that he is a self-absorbed prick. He screams at his coaches and quarterbacks and then pouts publicly when he believes he has been slighted. T.O. can melt down after having more targets than anyone else on the team. He is unstable and not the kind of player I would want anywhere near my team. The press eats it up and it only exacerbates the problem.
Vick’s media frenzy is entirely due to off-the-field actions. If he learned anything in his two years away from the game, I can’t see him being a distraction once inside the confines of a team structure. If he hasn’t been humbled by his fall from grace, that’s a different story.
I would disagree about Vick's media frenzy being ENTIRELY about off the field stuff.
I seem to remember him flipping off some fans during a game.
Tell that to the kids who are now scared for life
for having seen Vick’s middle finger without his other 4 fingers surrounding it.
2010 Seahawks Mock: 1A: Eric Berry S, 1B: Ndamukong Suh DT, 2: Charles Brown OT, 4:Zac Robinson QB, 5: Stafon Johnson RB 6: Will Tukuafu DE, 7: Kerry Meier WR
Also acceptable, trade for Patrick Chung and draft Ed Wang so everyone can Wang Chung tonight.
Peter Griffin

2010 Seahawks Mock: 1A: Eric Berry S, 1B: Ndamukong Suh DT, 2: Charles Brown OT, 4:Zac Robinson QB, 5: Stafon Johnson RB 6: Will Tukuafu DE, 7: Kerry Meier WR
Also acceptable, trade for Patrick Chung and draft Ed Wang so everyone can Wang Chung tonight.
by LantermanC on May 20, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Still, it shows the kind of poor decision making that Ruskell will view as a huge detractor.
As opposed to a protractor.
the great thing about having protractor on your team
is all the different angles you use them for
by B.B.Finnegan on May 20, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You mean Seattle would have interest in Vick...
because our organization values high-character players in a fairly extreme way? Is Clayton losing it? Of course there is a parallel with his former coaches, but the front-office would surely balk at such an idea. It sounds like ‘I must sell story lines’ media to me.
But Vick knows he has a friend in Mora
Maybe, but not a moronic friend and not a guy who can veto Ruskell, either, I don’t think.
You can't look at interest from any team, never mind the Seahawks
as a team looking or a starting qb. Any team that brings Vick on board will be doing so at the veteran minimum in wages and as a trick play/wildcat guy that may get 5-10 touches a game. From that perspective, I think he’s an intriguing prospect. Your looking at a guy who NEEDS to act like a pro because of his financial troubles and that will have to perform any role a team assigns to him because he has no other options. He was never a franchise quarterback but he was the most exciting player in the NFL, whoever gets him imo will be getting an absolute steal. However, there’s no way Ruskell risks signing him and pissing off all of Seattle in the last year of his contract
Wow.
Gotta check out DKSB….fun facts like this:
Seattle is rated as the 5th most dog-friendly city in the US, according to dogfriendly.com.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh
Hahahah.
Freaking classic. Which one is the least dog friendly!?!? That’s the better question!!!!
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
Man, I haven't been to DKSB in ages.
Love that place.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on May 20, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Another stab at Clayton's assessment:
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/20/dont-look-for-vick-to-go-to-seattle/
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh
Vick, and Wallace in the backfield at the same time......
who’s gonna get the shotgun hike? Burly, how’s your vanilla, Buttler, and Carlson 4 reciever sets. Championship. Vick is a lefty, Wallace a righty I’m talkin bout a revolution, well, come on.
"Superhero like even"
I thought
that part of the issues with Vick declining as a QB was that the play calling went away from what he was best at, primarily PA fakes/boot legs set up by a very strong run game.
Vick will never succeed as a pocket passer but if someone used him properly he might do all right.
I don’t really want any part of him in Seattle.
Paris Hilton, Burberry plaid, reality TV, mullets, Zima, Dubya, and the Sonics being sold to Oklahoma City. - Yahoo Answer results for "7 Signs of the Apocalypse"
I would love
to see Vick in a Seattle uniform I own 2 dogs and would never do what he did but thats coming from my life experience. I also grew up on a farm and still raise animals for meat which many people think is cruel and would condemn me so i tend to be more understanding of other peoples views on animal treatment.
There's a world of difference between raising animals for meat
and running a dogfighting ring/personally drowning and electrocuting dogs.
It's great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on May 23, 2009 6:14 AM PDT up reply actions
If he doesn't have a big head
I don’t see why not, he’d make a decent receiver if he can’t play QB anymore, right?
"I hope he arouses the fire that's dormant in the innermost recesses of my soul. I plan to face him with the zeal of a challenger."
-Ichiro on Dice-K
I say bring him on
put him on the practice squad, lose the red jersey, and sack his ass on every down. It will be a confidence booster for Iron Masala, aka Aaron Curry.

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