The Screen Package

by abender20 on May 21, 2009 8:39 AM PDT in Seahawks News & Rumors

Football news in general is unusually slow this week, so I've been on the hunt for something of interest. Lo and behold, I stumbled across a neat section of Football Outsiders that details and explains offensive packages. On days like today when the biggest piece of news is the fallout from the Walt Harris injury, we do some learning. Just like with the Advanced NFL Stats pieces, you'll want to go see how deep the rabbit hole goes. Note: this piece was written in 2007.

Since there are four separate variations of the screen detailed, I won't go grab chunks of text to work with. You'll want to read each in detail. What stands out in each play is the precision timing and sleight of hand required to pull each screen.

The Deangelo Williams screen works because the Panthers break in a standard formation, creating a mismatch by splitting Williams out wide.The Cowboys screen creates confusion by bunching there wideouts to one side, but is foiled by timing and a poor Romo throw. The Walker play requires precision spacing and timing of blocks so that Walker has space to pick his way through the gap. Mark Campbell's fake screen needs two separate ball fakes by Drew Brees in combination with the right sell on the pass block by Campbell himself.

If you ever got the impression that it's not that difficult to pull off a play on a football field, hopefully you've corrected mental error.

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I forget why Holmgren gave up on the screen pass

Was it just that Shaun became terrible at it? Although I don’t remember him trying it too much with Morris or Jones, if at all.

by B.B.Finnegan on May 21, 2009 9:39 AM PDT reply actions

I also have wondered

he had it in Green Bay. It’s like he forgot how. But last year, there was talk of the screen, in training camp. It’s a facet of Matt Hasselbeck that had been neglected his entire career, so it might not be easy as pie to just turn back on. But man I miss the screen. Some years, it’s just the screen, like every other year, but it seems like every 4 years or so, nobody in the league stops the screen, it’s a killer.

by jacobstevens on May 21, 2009 9:54 AM PDT reply actions

Just a theory...

… as to why Holmgren didn’t use the screen. It’s probably the lack of athleticism in our line. You’ve got to have mobile, fluid linemen to pull this off. Just a hunch…

by PoolNinja on May 21, 2009 10:06 AM PDT reply actions

Walter Jones, Hutch, and Tobeck were plenty athletic.

Maybe it’s because Alexander’s hands were like cement blocks.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 21, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions

No doubt.

Anyone that thinks SA had good hands is delusional.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200

by Misfit74 on May 21, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions

He's no J.B. Prewitt.

2010 Seahawks Mock: 1A: Eric Berry S, 1B: Ndamukong Suh DT, 2: Charles Brown OT, 4:Zac Robinson QB, 5: Stafon Johnson RB 6: Will Tukuafu DE, 7: Kerry Meier WR
Also acceptable, trade for Patrick Chung and draft Ed Wang so everyone can Wang Chung tonight.

by LantermanC on May 21, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions

How far back we talkin'?

I assumed that the article was in reference post ‘05 season, after we lost Hutch and Tobeck. From 2001-2003 SA had over 40 receptions per season, don’t tell me that’s its all seam route catches. I agree that those three were athletic, but Walt’s lost a few steps in the last couple years.

by PoolNinja on May 21, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions

One last note...

Branch’s total receptions in the last three years: 132
Alexander’s total receptions in 01-03: 145

by PoolNinja on May 21, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions

you might add 'games played' to that equasion.

Yes, we used Alexander as a weapon in earlier years in the passing game, but to compare him as a pass-catcher to Branch is insane, IMHO.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200

by Misfit74 on May 21, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions

you have a point...

by PoolNinja on May 21, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions

Good article Bender,

I was just thinking this morning, ‘I wonder what Bender will post today? It must be hard to consistently come up with good articles when hardly anything is going on.’

That was one of my bigger beefs with Holmgren. His play calling was too predictable. I’m not much for trick play calling myself, but once in a while keeps the opposition on its toes. Same with going deep. Maybe it doesn’t work, but the defense still has to prepare for it.

by LantermanC on May 21, 2009 10:13 AM PDT reply actions

Some days I go through all the Hawks related sites, ESPN, Google News, etc. and think to myself,

“Time to get creative”.

by abender20 on May 21, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions

I enjoy things like this.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaay more than anything Favre, Vick, etc.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh

by Misfit74 on May 21, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions

I agree about Holmgren.

And I would add that we don’t necessarily need ‘trick plays’ but innovation and creativity would be a very welcome change. We never say tunnel screens or bubble screens – really saw nothing unique or rarely run by other teams. Holmgren was set in his ways and that is one reason for optimism with the new staff.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh

by Misfit74 on May 21, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions

*we never saw

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh

by Misfit74 on May 21, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions

Joey Galloway's 88 yard reveral was pretty awesome.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 21, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions

True.

I was referring mainly to the last couple of years. I miss Galloway. That year he had a PR, Run and Catch all for TDs was amazing.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200

by Misfit74 on May 21, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Indeed. I agree.

Trick plays aren’t needed at all, but on occasion they are great ways to keep defenses on their toes. Think: Jim Zorn with the LOLSKINS. Great call on the reverse to Devin Thomas because they couldn’t establish the pass, the entire Giants defense bit the wrong way and the play took advantage of Thomas’ speed to milk it for a 40+ yard TD. And vs. us, when on 4th and 1 he called a quick toss to Mike Sellers with Clinton Portis providing the key block on the outside offensive left edge.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 21, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Where did this come from?

Holmgren may not have called screens, but he was far from predictable. And he ran “trick” plays all the time. They were plays Seahawk fans saw more than once, but they also gave Defenses fits.

by Groundhog on May 21, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions

If you think third and long fullback draws are unpredictable trick plays, sure.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 21, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions

LMAO

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200

by Misfit74 on May 21, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions

John succintly summarized it as "Mike Holmgren thinks the shotgun formation is a trick play"

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 21, 2009 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions

You're right, though.

But, he did kinda lose his edge, the past two years or so. But yeah, to call bubble screens unique or creative, I mean it could only come from a Seahawk fan’s perspective. I would love a Deon Butler bubble screen or two thrown in, definitely. I didn’t like Holmgren’s rigidity when it came to his system. It was easy to get familiar with it, and feel like a 20 year old system was predictable, but it was what he called, when, that made it go.

Some games it was too predictable. Sometimes he wasn’t on. But 3rd & long draws behind your own 40 are widely commonplace throughout the league. Much like punting on 4th down is more than conceding defeat, but considering field position, so, too is the draw a small concession in exchange for reasonable assurance of no negative yardage or turnovers, maximizing field position potential for the least amount of risk.

Holmgren frequently led the league in variety of formations used. The Colts might be thought of as an unpredictable offense, but like Martz so much of the production hinges on what the QB and WR sees from the snap to the catch:

Also:

Small sample sizes but testaments to how much more frequently several teams call one thing in a given situation more than Holmgren would.

He took a bit to get going. 2nd & more than 8, or without having made at least one 1st down and 2 or three completed passes to start out a drive, and he was backed into a corner. Once he got a drive going, though, Holmgren was not predictable at all and pretty difficult to defend.

by jacobstevens on May 21, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

I always like Martz' offenses

I really liked how say the angle of a post would be dictated by where the safety up top was, and both the QB & WR knew how to adjust. Those kinds of things are strengths, so obviously given the proficiency of the GSoT and the Colts, I’m not necessarily saying Holmgren’s offense was better.

Here’s another strength, but just to turn this for a second, stop and consider how helpful it might be to Peyton Manning, to have the same 3 passing options on nearly every single play, year in and year out (assuming Dallas Clark was nearly always running a route and the 2nd TE was usually blocking). It’s a strength, it’s a benefit, and like most I mostly consider him the best QB around, but when some guys get dismissed as being system QBs, and the complexity of Holmgren’s offense is widely acknowledged, I think it speaks modestly more of Hasselbeck than his reputation even among fans, relative to one of the best in the business, to have been pretty good with a more complex system.

by jacobstevens on May 21, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Could you provide some examples?

Maybe my memory is just bad.

by LantermanC on May 22, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions

What I saw as common trick plays

Were moving the TE, FB, RB in motion out of the backfield to the sideline as a WR. It worked well enough that a WR was usually open (though Holmgren sometimes ran the ball). Very rarely, the D didn’t bite, leaving MoMo open for long receptions. The most famous example of this trick play is Seneca’s reception in the NFC Championship vs Carolina.

Yes, I do consider the FB Draw on 3rd and long a trick play. It was usually run out of a 4WR spread formation. I think if the O-line had been average in 2007 and 2008, Weaver would have made it much more successful.

MoMo often ran Sweeps (less so the last couple of years. But for a while, that was about all MoMo ran). WR End-arounds and Reverses were also in the playbook and used.

It’s not a flea-flicker (though Holmgren did sometimes call those – never successfully to my recollection), but it’s something that surprises the D.

I think Holmgren made sure the team could run the basic playbook in the beginning of the season, and then added wrinkles as the season progressed.

by Groundhog on May 22, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions

I'll add

That the new run-centric playbook is likely going to make Holmgren look like a renaissance man.

by Groundhog on May 22, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Not enough wrinkles.

You never saw a throw caution to the wind, balls out change in style to win a game. Teams like Miami won games due to creatitivity and innovation. Holmgren may have mixed up his playcalling, but designed plays that were ‘out of the box’ were not seen. At least in the games I’ve been watching (most, if not all). It might be tricky to call a play at a certain time in a certain situation, but I’d hardly call a FB draw a trick play. That, unfortunately, has been in Holmgren’s book for what seems like ages. There are many more things we could have done offensively and didn’t. That is a good reason for me to be excited about the change in coaching staff.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200

by Misfit74 on May 22, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions

Seahawks and screen

My vague recollection was that Holmgren ran that screen to Alexander a lot when Watters was still the starter but Alexander played some. I also remember it being quite successful, and perhaps the only truly successful plays we ran that year.

Since then, it seems like they’ve tried to run the screen every once in a while, but the passes nearly always end up incomplete. Maybe it’s declining line atheticism like PoolNinja said. Or maybe it’s also the fact that we don’t successfully throw the ball downfield so defenses keep more folks up near the line and are better able to react to a screen.

I do not have a good feeling about the offense this year. I’m worried about the line. Really, really worried. Unger’s a start, but we’re looking at another year or two of taking an O-lineman in the first two rounds just to have playoff-calibre line talent.

by jeager on May 21, 2009 11:00 AM PDT reply actions

Our line has the chance to be slightly above serviceable next season,

but a more likely chance of being putrid. That and the fact that we could have three projected starting linemen (Jones, Wahle, Spencer) not on the team after this season.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 21, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions