Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Explaining Jeremy Lin's Early, Surprising Success

NFC West Roundtable: Wide Receiver

Longtime readers know I'm stubborn. I think Deion Branch, and not TJ Houshmandzadeh, is the player that can make Seattle's an above average wide receiver unit. I did not think Seahawks fans should have expected anything from Branch in 2008 and that he did return and show flashes of brilliance have only strengthened my belief that should Branch ever be healthy for a full season, Seattle will have itself a true #1 receiver that's as good as any Seahawks receiver since Joey Galloway.

Arizona Cardinals
Blogger: cgolden

(Disclaimer: You can go ahead and sound the homer alert) The Arizona Cardinals have the best group of wide receivers that the NFL has to offer, and it's not even close. Larry Fitzgerald stated his case as the best WR in the league with his record setting playoff performance to cap off his third 1,400 yard season before his 26th birthday. No wide receiver is better at snagging to that ball at it's highest point and the fact that he still acknowledges that he can get better is down right scary. Anquan Boldin, when healthy, is a full back in a wide receivers' body. He's got the toughness to catch a ball the middle and lay some wood to any defender that gets in his way. He won't run by many defenders but he's still a factor in the red zone because of his ability to make the tough catch and take a shot. Steve Breaston came out of nowhere to post over 1,000 yards in just his second season and he's the perfect vertical threat to compliment Fitz and Q. He also made a case that he's more than a slot receiver by averaging five receptions and 61 yards per game in weeks that Boldin missed due to injury. He's still a raw receiver but at the age of 25, he's got plenty of time to improve. Jerheme Urban and Early Doucet round out the depth chart and they'll fight for the 4th WR role in 2009. Urban's a decent receiver who does many things well but doesn't really excel in any one category. Doucet's entering his second season and has looked very impressive during off season workouts, so far, but the talent above him will limit his playing time. Doucet was called a "Boldin-clone" after the draft last year and he's a guy that the staff has been very high on, so a semi-breakout season doesn't seem so far-fetched. Grade: A (although for the record, that doesn't do this unit justice)

Seattle Seahawks
Blogger: John Morgan

Week one at Buffalo, Seattle started Courtney Taylor at flanker. That’s sort of the “For sale: Baby shoes…” of Seattle’s 2008 season. Starting split end Nate Burleson was injured and lost for the season that same game. Deion Branch was not fully healed but not put on the PUP list. He would suffer a compensation injury, landing one legged and suffering a stone bruise against the Giants, and miss five more weeks. Bobby Engram cracked a bone in his shoulder and missed the first three weeks of the season. Ben Obomanu—

Suffice it to say, Seattle flunked out at wide receiver in 2008.

Seattle signed marquee free agent TJ Houshmandzadeh on March 2nd. The soon to be 32 year old receiver will wear Engram’s old number, 84, and Engram is a pretty good exemplar for what Seattle can realistically hope from Houshmandzadeh. He’s a bit injury prone and his run after catch numbers are trending down, but his hands are excellent and so is his ability to box out and create space. Housh is a sub-superstar with an unforgettable name so he’s famous and a comparison to Engram may seem modest, but Engram was a steady and supremely productive possession receiver for Seattle and that’s what Houshmandzadeh should be, if in a bigger role.

Deion Branch makes this unit above average. Branch has a bad reputation for being fragile, but before the freak ACL tear in the 2007 Division round and the collateral damage it wreaked on the 2008 season, Branch had missed just six games in his previous three seasons. Branch is not impervious or even tough, but the often repeated phrase that he’s “made of glass” ignores that he missed two weeks in 2006 because of a contract holdout not injury and that ACL injuries take as much as a year to fully recover from. It wasn’t a year after Branch’s surgery until a month after Seattle’s season ended.

And yet Branch tantalized with his agility, likely still recovering, his concentration and open field moves and made a pretty good case, if brief and ultimately futile, that he could be an absolute stud in a West Coast Offense. He has great hands, great open field moves, an explosive redirect and good speed, making him, at his best, a bit like a slighter, shorter Greg Jennings.

Nate Burleson is a better athlete than receiver, but away from Mike Holmgren’s exacting system, he might finally show more production than potential. It will help if he plays out of the slot, because he doesn’t separate well and that leads to stretches where he disappears. Because he was once a dangerous returner, fans tend to think Burleson’s best skill is run after catch, but that hasn’t been true since his thousand yard season in 2004. Wes Welker can attest, RAC yards are there for the taking when opposing defenses play Cover Randy Moss coverage. I’ve never been a huge fan of Burleson, but he’s not yet 28 and very athletic, so there’s hope he could become a good receiver and great slot receiver.

Seattle has a few more talents on its roster worth mentioning. Third round pick Deon Butler is instantly one of the fastest receivers in football, but beyond that, a good resume at Penn State, and a reputation for good route running, there’s little else we can be sure of. Transitioning to the NFL can take time, and the specific reasons why a receiver has not yet or never pans out are unpredictable.

Ben Obomanu could be good depth, but has proven so far to be little more than an occasional deep threat that's pretty bad at being a deep threat. He might blossom if his role is expanded, but it's a long shot.

Practice Viking Courtney Taylor is polished and athletic and reaching a crossroads as a player. One path leads to a gunner job, should he want one, and an early retirement. The other, should he sharpen his route running and make his hands not just good, but consistently good, is a job as a wide receiver in the NFL. The first path is much more likely. His famous flameout and preseason no-shows afford him little patience, and he doesn’t have the draft pedigree or pure tools to bounce around the league. He does have good tools and therefore good potential, but somewhere, where Taylor’s talent meets Jerry Rice’s work ethic, there’s a good player, but then Rice’s work ethic was as rare and amazing a talent as Randy Moss’s speed or Barry Sanders moves.

Grade: B

San Francisco 49ers
Blogger: Fooch

Sound the homer alert here as well, although I certainly won't claim the best receivers in the league, or even in the division.  However, I'm quite excited about the 49ers wide receivers heading into 2009 as this post will indicate.

The national media attention has focused primarily on Michael Crabtree (heartiest thanks to Al Davis).  While he is certainly a supremely talented wide receiver, the 49ers receiver corps was already beginning to develop into a solid unit.  They lack the home run threat of a Larry Fitzgerald, but they make up for that with great potential five to six receivers deep.  This is arguably the best group of 49ers receivers since Jeff Garcia was slinging the ball to Terrell Owens and Tai Streets (who had one really solid year).

Isaac Bruce brings the veteran experience and was the leading receiver last season.  At this point he's probably the #1 receiver, coming off a solid 2008, but at some point he'll give way to the youngsters behind him.  The team signed Brandon Jones this offseason and are hoping he can finally take a step up in performance (41 receptions last season).  Outsiders would probably view those two as the starting receivers given the experience of one and the price tag of the other.  However, there's a decent chance one, if not both, will be coming off the bench at some point this season.  The most likely player to break through as a starter this season is Josh Morgan, a second year receiver out of Virginia Tech.  Although he was a sixth round pick last year, injuries got him enough training camp playing time to push him to second on the depth chart behind Bruce.  A preseason staph infection and midseason groin injury slowed him down considerably.  While his numbers weren't spectacular, he showed some flashes of big time potential, most notably on his game-winning touchdown catch in the final two minutes against St. Louis.

Amidst the fanfare of Josh Morgan, Jason Hill showed solid improvement in his sophomore campaign.  Hill played primarily in the slot last season, but has seen time as the starting Z receiver in voluntary workouts ahead of Brandon Jones.  Training camp and preseason will be huge for the trio of Morgan/Hill/Jones in determining who gets starting time.  At this point I honestly don't know who the two starting receivers will be for the 49ers.  While some might argue that shows no clear cut strength there, I think it's a sign of the new-found depth the 49ers have at the position.

The 49ers receivers wrap up with a battle between Dominique Zeigler and Arnaz Battle for a possible sixth receiver position.  Battle is entering the final year of his contract and appears to have maxed out his abilities.  While never great, he's been a tough, gritty receiver and solid special teamer for the 49ers through some lean years.  Zeigler is a guy with a pretty stark contrast among 49ers fans.  Some are convinced he'll be a solid contributor and thus is worth holding onto.  Others would have no problem sticking him back on the practice squad even if it means somebody else grabs him.

I've held back discussing Crabtree because I actually expect his draft season foot problems to slow him down out of the gates.  While I certainly expect contributions from Crabtree, I'd prefer to operate under a conservative assumption and be pleasantly surprised by whatever he does contribute.  Furthermore, I think the 49ers have sufficient depth to cover any growing pains for Crabtree.

All in all, I think the 49ers are in excellent shape going forward at receiver.  I won't give them an A because they haven't produced at a sufficient level yet.  I won't give them a C because I believe the talent is that good.  Grade: B

Turf Show Times
Blogger: VanRam


If ever there was a place for an "incomplete" grade... The Rams have no shortage of receivers on the roster, but there's a dearth of experience among those candidates. Donnie Avery, coming off a solid rookie season, leads the pack, and his speed and hands make him a reliable option as the #1 WR. On the other side is most likely Keenan Burton, who showed real potential in duty limited by injury, the depth chart and a poor offense. The team is hoping Laurent Robinson can regain the promise he showed in 2007 with the Falcons as the number three guy. From there, the receivers get even more questionable. Tim Carter has the most career receptions, 80, but he hasn't played since 2007. Fifth round pick Brooks Foster was the third WR in a talented group at North Carolina.

The lack of experience and a prototypical playmaker type has fans and pundits alike pointing to the Rams receiver corps as a red flag. However, the success last year of Miami's relatively unproven and unknown group of receivers and the success of the Eagles earlier in the decade (http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2009/5/4/864595/no-experience-no-problem-can-the) stand as reassuring precendent for fans. The implementation of Pat Shurmur's West Coast style offense and the return of Steven Jackson behind a bolstered offensive line should help overcome the experience thing.

Still, we just won't know until we see them play. Grade: C

Comment 85 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Hmmm ...

Those guys typically have been pretty realistic about their teams, but a B for 49ers and a C for the Rams?

I rolled my eyes a little.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on May 29, 2009 12:41 PM PDT reply actions  

I can actually understand giving the Cardinals an A.

But a “B” for the 49ers? That’s too much Kool-aid for Fooch.

Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.

by Carl Shinyama on May 29, 2009 12:43 PM PDT reply actions  

Absolutely.

Isaac Bruce is good, but not great. Crabtree is completely unproven, and my gut says he busts unless he permanently checks his ego at the door.

Those two don’t compare to Branch and Housh. Not even close.

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on May 29, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

And who is throwing them the ball?

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain

by blackvanilla on May 29, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, that's the point I think.

I disagree with the 49ers and Rams rankings, but if the QB who’s throwing them the ball and the line doing the pass blocking is horrible, you can still get an A for WRs (or at least that’s how I think they’re grading it). Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston could be on a team with 2008 Brad Johnson and the 2004 Houston Texans’ O-line, but the WRs would still be the best WR corp in the NFL.

by LantermanC on May 29, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 29, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha, I didn't even notice that,

and when you said that, my first thought was ‘I must be dyslexic’. I’m guessing it’s because Nate Davis has an over publicized learning disorder.

by LantermanC on May 30, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

wonk t'nod I.

Okay, I’ll stop now.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 30, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Watch out that one dude is gonna go on a rampage again.

haha

Stacey Nelson throws flaming screwballs.
It's great to be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on May 30, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

comparison

I agree that Bruce and Crabtree are not better than Branch and Housh. I’m also happy even if Crabtree doesn’t make much of a contribution (although I expect some contribution nonetheless). When you look at Josh Morgan’s numbers at the end of the season in a bit of shock, remember you heard it here first.

As Crabtree, most great wide receivers have some ego and I actually don’t see it as being an issue. I think it’s something that’s being blown out of proportion.

by David Fucillo on May 29, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can't wait for the A+ duo of

Nate Clements and Dre Bly

It's great to be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on May 30, 2009 5:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

positional rankings

You do realize we’re giving grades based on the whole unit, and not just the starters right?

by David Fucillo on May 30, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

The real question is whether you realize this, after the previous three rankings.

Example: The exemplary platoon of Shaun Hill, Alex Smith, Nate Davis, and Damon Huard = a B. Again, that is Shaun Hill, Alex Smith, Nate Davis, and Damon Huard. A B.

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on May 30, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

no

I think there is good talent there, but the depth issue raises concerns.

by David Fucillo on May 30, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Depth?

I can’t say I’m really sold on the starters. Nate Clements was abused last season, Walt Harris is a fossil who might retire soon, Dre Bly got ran out of a terrible pass defense in Denver and has been overrated most of his career, you still don’t have a FS.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 30, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

+ 1

a strong dose of TRUTH!

by CardsDefense on Jun 1, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

erm

Well, after the other units received such high marks, it’s only a matter of time.

Stacey Nelson throws flaming screwballs.
It's great to be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on May 30, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

John Morgan > Josh Morgan

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 29, 2009 12:54 PM PDT reply actions  

Not to be rude,

but if Fooch and VanRam were teachers, I’d want to be in their class.

by LantermanC on May 29, 2009 1:30 PM PDT reply actions   3 recs

I am a fan of this comment.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on May 30, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Realistic ratings

Cardinals: A +

Seahawks: C +

49ers: C

Rams: D -

by CardsDefense on May 29, 2009 1:42 PM PDT reply actions  

I think you're right...

I mostly agree with the individual bloggers, but I feel that the relative difference between AZ and the rest is much greater.

I think the Hawks receivers are more proven, but SF’s have more potential & big play ability – so I think the same grade fits.

by PerryCollective on May 29, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know,

49ers are league average or close to it? If Bruce is your number 1 and Crabtree is your number 2 that doesn’t seem that great. I think Crabtree will be good, but you have to downgrade him due to injury and inexperience. How many teams have a worse WR corp than the 49ers.

Rams, Jaguars, Bears, Vikings, (shoot, I think so much of Calvin Johnson, I’m going to say DET is better), NYG possibly?. So only 4 teams definitively.

by LantermanC on May 29, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Going off of very basic stats

Isaac Bruce will get 700 yards at most and so will Crabtree (assuming those are the 1 and 2 WRs). Bruce has averaged about 750, but he’s 36, so I do not expect him to do better than he did 2 years ago. Crabtree, as great as he is, is probably not better than Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson, and those guys had 760 and 780 yards their first years, though Andre Johnson had 976 his rookie year.

by LantermanC on May 29, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let me get this straight.

So far the 49ers have a “B” set of quarterbacks, a “B” set of running backs, and a “B” set of wide receivers. Where was this awesome offense full of skill position players last season?

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on May 29, 2009 2:17 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

They were all at the local lawfirm

trying to sue their coach for indecent exposure

by CardsDefense on May 29, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Yeah..

that guy is a pretty ridiculous homer.

Arizona
QB B+
RB A-
WR A+

Seattle
QB B
RB C
WR B+

SF
QB D+
RB A-
WR C-

Lambs
QB B-
RB A+
WR C-

Please, for the LOVE OF GOD, stop suggesting next year's 1st round pick (or picks) be used for Taylor Mays and or a QB of the future. Let's just let the season unfold, people, and evaluate much deeper in the process!!!

by Tyler Jorgensen on May 30, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

if those are your marks

you’re pretty liberal with your high marks as well. I don’t think The Fossil alone can pull the Cards Qb ratings all the way to B+, and their running game is questionable. As for the Niners and Rams, Steven Jackson is on a whole different level than Frank Gore, but if either of them get hurt, they have no backups worth noting.

Stacey Nelson throws flaming screwballs.
It's great to be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on May 30, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well...

I did spend 4 years as a high school teacher, and nobody hates grades more than teachers..

But yes, I was pretty liberal. Even so, I stand by the Fossil and Leinhart as a B+ even though the bottom could fall out very quickly and they could drop down to a low C if Warner gets injured…

I have Steven Jackson in my fantasy keeper league, so I’m trusting he’ll be healthy all year! ;) That said, there aren’t 3 RB’s in the league I would rather have than him, so I’ll put him as an A+ alone— when healthy he IS that good. (Will he be healthy? I simply don’t know… that factor I can see dropping things down.)

Still, in that reasoning I think the Hawks would have to go up— most teams don’t have (or don’t know that they have suitable back ups.) Since we have a RB by committee approach, chances are we should be higher than a C then because if we lose someone, we really don’t lose much…

And I do think Frank Gore alone warrants a B+ or A-…

Please, for the LOVE OF GOD, stop suggesting next year's 1st round pick (or picks) be used for Taylor Mays and or a QB of the future. Let's just let the season unfold, people, and evaluate much deeper in the process!!!

by Tyler Jorgensen on May 30, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

An A- is pretty high

for a mediocre Hightower and an unproven, injury-prone rookie.

Stacey Nelson throws flaming screwballs.
It's great to be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on May 30, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, it is...

I have to admit that was a typo, I was thinking B- and put A- for some unknown to me reason…

My overall point though, was that even being liberal with everybody (EXCEPT, in my eyes, the Hawks, who I was conservative with) the grades were way high across the board.

It is interesting how we all favor our own teams… but, that being said, our QB could easily have much higher upside, our WR’s could be relative to AZ, particularly if Warner goes down, and our RB by committee approach may not be great, but it is certainly playable and I still think it has B+ upside…

Please, for the LOVE OF GOD, stop suggesting next year's 1st round pick (or picks) be used for Taylor Mays and or a QB of the future. Let's just let the season unfold, people, and evaluate much deeper in the process!!!

by Tyler Jorgensen on May 30, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

No mention of Boldin's trade rumblings?

What is Arizona’s grade without Boldin? Does Seattle overtake or does Fitz still carry the Cardinals?

by Airborne Hawk Guy on May 29, 2009 3:02 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm a sucker for young recievers

so I pretty much love all of the receivers in this division with the exception of Bruce. Burton, Avery, Doucet, Butler, Hill and Morgan all really excite me, so apparently I’m an upside guy when it comes to this position.

by Nate Dogg on May 29, 2009 3:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Must be

Perhaps no other commodity is produced by college more than young receivers with athleticism than anything else. They’ve got to have something more, to me. Like Iglesias, I was excited about him, and still am, on behalf of Chicago.

by jacobstevens on May 29, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe we are just gun-shy...

With the unfulfilled promise of Kent, Payne, Obomanu, and Taylor, I think us Hawk fans are especially nervous about young receivers.

But I think Avery, Doucet, Hill, Breaston, and Morgan have shown more than our young receivers. And given where we drafted ours, it makes sense, despite some glowing (misleading) reports from training camp and preseason games the last few years.

DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal disproved a bit of the rookie receiver jinx last year. I hope that Butler is able to at least contribute this year.

I’ve heard that the West Coast O is harder for receivers to pick up since it’s based on timing. That makes sense, given that the most productive receivers of the Holmgren era were DJack and Engram, known more for their route running than their athleticism.

by PerryCollective on May 29, 2009 9:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Both DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal played in a West Coast Offense.

It is not necessarily the timing but Holmgren’s complex WR speak.

by Built2Spill on May 29, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks

I probably should have known that, with Reid and Shanahan. So, I guess there is some hope that the young WRs will be more productive in Knapp’s version then?

by PerryCollective on May 29, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I enjoy these rountables. Nice detail.

However, I can’t see how ‘shown flashes, 7th round pick’, ‘rookie WR’, and ‘36 year old WR’ and a handful of either unproven or mediocre receivers grades out to a B. I’m optimistic about Morgan, but he’s still unproven enough to the point that you can’t exactly take potentially future goodness to the bank. Not a ‘B’ for that group unless you’re already putting Crabtree in the Pro-Bowl as a rookie and making Morgan an automatic 80 catch, 1000yd player.

I agree with Seattle. Arizona is right on and I think that Doucet is going to be a player. I like Avery and Robinson has nice tools, so that grade is C or D, but I haven’t seen Burton or Robinson play very much.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200

by Misfit74 on May 30, 2009 11:37 AM PDT reply actions  

What?

Crabtree in the pro bowl and Morgan a borderline pro bowler would be higher than a B, that would be an A or A+

by cashless on May 31, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I do hope you're right about Deion Branch, John

There have been spurts where he’s been an absolute stud. Him and Housh give us two potential number ones, not great like Arizona, but good. I feel reasonably confident in our WR’s, simply because we’ve added dept plus the odds that there’s no way we’ll have near as many injuries as last year.

by B.B.Finnegan on May 30, 2009 11:43 AM PDT reply actions  

Jeez, mabe I'M being the homer here,

but other teams don’t like our WRs at all. At the Arizona blog 40% said that Doucet would start for us, and the AZ blogger asks whether or not AZ has the top 3 WRs in the conference? Really? Breaston over Housh or Branch? I mean, sure Breaston has had a 1000 yard season, but guess who else had a 1000 yard season? Burleson.

At the SF blog, 83% of the bloggers there voted that SF had the 2nd best group of WRs after the Cards.

I’d like to think I’m an unbiased person here, but maybe I’m just as bad as these guys when I say that for this year, we have a top 10 receiving core. (Better WRs: Arizona, Green Bay, Denver, Buffalo, Houston, Indy, Philly, Carolina? Pittsburgh? Saints?)

by LantermanC on May 30, 2009 11:58 AM PDT reply actions  

I think that it's all based on the injury concerns of Deion Branch

A Seahawks unit with a healthy Deion Branch has the potential to be top-10. Without Deion Branch? Nothing special, for sure. Oh, and you should be including New England in that “better than us” list, on the basis of Randy Moss alone.

But the time that you should start caring about the homer fans over at the SF and AZ blogs begins never, especially those that believe that, overall, they have a better bunch of WR’s than we do. Your #1 wide receiver is Isaac Bruce. Done.

"Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Venture

by Eegah on May 30, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

The SF blog is full of homers.

They think the 49ers far and away the best cheerleaders, RB situation, etc.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 30, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, that's pretty homerific.

If 83% of the bloggers said that SF has a better receiving corps than Seattle, then they are just showing their own stupidity. Having a little bias is one thing, but that’s just plain ignorant.

If they want to live in that dream world, let them. If anything it makes me feel better about Field Gulls.

Stacey Nelson throws flaming screwballs.
It's great to be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on May 30, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

But... but... Josh Morgan!!!!

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on May 30, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, Josh Morgan actually looks sort of legit

It’s the others they’re overrating, especially Jason Hill

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 30, 2009 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

He may be pretty capable

I just don’t see him pulling their grade to a “B” or having better depth than we do at this point.

I’ll say this, at this point I am pretty interested in seeing how Mr. Morgan fares this coming season.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on May 30, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, yeah, they don't.

If we grade their receiving crew as harshly as we do our own, we get:

- An ancient WR (Bruce) who we shouldn’t rely on to perform because of age-related decline and prior injury problems.
- An unproven rookie (Crabtree) coming off a foot injury and has had recent reports spring up of him being a ‘diva’.
- An injury prone WR (Hill) who doesn’t play to his timed-speed and has been largely inconsistent.
- A late round pick who’s shown flashes of potential…in the preseason (Morgan). I don’t see how he’s already much better than Jordan Kent, Ben Obomanu, or even Courtney Taylor.
- A receiver who even the Titans didn’t think highly enough to retain (Brandon Jones)
- Practice squad fodder (Dominique Ziegler), injury prone WR in Battle.

Suppose Bruce gets hurt. Are Crabtree and Morgan ready to become the starting receivers?

Now, I certainly don’t think the Seahawks have the greatest WR crew around, but they are certainly above average, far more proven, and overall more deeper than the 49ers.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 30, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

the thing i'd be more worried about than the "diva" label

is the reports of crabtree rehabing with stacks of pizza hut boxes lying around his place and the manicure appointments. considering how much SF is investing, I wouldnt want to hear that kind of stuff. I have heard nothing about his work ethic.

by Mind of no mind on May 31, 2009 2:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200

by Misfit74 on May 30, 2009 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's an interesting discussion all on it's own.

I’d reluctantly agree with most of that ‘better wr corps’. If one superstar (or near-elite talent) makes the teams unit top 10, then okay. I think Philly and Carolina are close, but could be outside of the top 10. Rookie Maclin, Curtis, and DeSean? Yea, I can see that. It’s not convincing, but yeah. Carolina? Smith and Moose? I wouldn’t trade ours for theirs, as much as I like the dominance of Smith, the aging Muhammad and Jarrett, etc are not top-10 unless Smith counts for a unit all his own.

Pit? No. Holmes, Ward and Sweed? Their rookie pick? I’m not ready to say that’s top 10, either. Ward’s consistent and Holmes came up big in the SB, but is another blunt from suspension and inconsistent the rest of the time. The rest are unknowns.

Saints yes, though how much the offense and QB cloud the actual play of their WRs could be discussed. I think highly of Colston and Moore, and you could pretty much count Bush as a WR – definate top-10 without even talking about Meachem’s potential. Buffalo with TO and Evans, Reed, Hardy, Johnson I guess, but that one reluctantly. I hate TO and he is old, but that could be a top-10 unit in reality. I think the QB play and coaching could hinder what talent they do have.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200

by Misfit74 on May 30, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I feel for the 49ers fans a little

If my team had been that godawful for that long I’d probably be grasping at straws as well. It’s a little easier to be pretty self-critical after having enjoyed some actual success.

As for your list, I’m not sure I’d stick Carolina in there, but probably would at least consider Detroit, if only because of Megatron.

It’s pretty strange to see Buffalo on that list, but there they are.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on May 30, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

A bunch of them consistenly say we're 'delusional' because we've won so much for so long.

To that, I say that I’d rather be delusional from that than grasping at straws because my team hasn’t had a winning record in years.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 30, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't want to trade places, that's for sure.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on May 30, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think much of the "homerism" of Niners fans

is excitement for Crabtree. He was considered the best prospect in the draft before his post-combine fallout. Look at it like this, if you were impartial and had to bet on if Crabtree receives for a thousand yards or Branch and/or Housh miss significant time, which would you bet on? I don’t think it’s so clear cut.

And this “unproven” label is a little absurd. There’s no sure performance level for rookies or veterans. When we discuss linebackers, I’m not going to downgrade Curry because he’s “unproven”. There’s every reason to think he can be a top-ten outside linebacker his first season.

by John Morgan on May 30, 2009 5:21 PM PDT reply actions  

There may not be a sure performance level for rookies

Still, as we did during the absurdly long lead-up to draft day, we can look at previous top WR talents and get a decent idea of a baseline expectation for Crabtree, which is in the 700 yardish area, which by no means makes him a disappointment in the first year, but also doesn’t pair with Isaac Bruce into an unstoppable dynamic force. I’m also not entirely sure where the uber-love for Josh Morgan is coming from and will look forward to your thoughts on the matter during season previews.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on May 30, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Morgan

The excitement developed first during the preseason. After some late July injuries (most notably Bryant Johnson), Morgan got a lot of first team reps and looked very good in the preseason. He finished fifth in the NFL in preseason receiving yards even though he only played in 2 preseason games. I realize they’re just preseason stats, but it was commonly accepted that he was going to be in the starting lineup. However, he got a staph infection, causing him to miss the last two preseason games. Technically he was healthy to start the regular season but he’d lost a lot of weight from the infection so it caused a setback for him.

I’m not saying it’s guaranteed that Josh Morgan will be a stud in this league or that if he is it will happen right away this year. I’m just saying that having seen enough of him so far, I like what I see. If that makes me a homer, so be it. However, given the comments here, I think there’s a fairly good chance you guys will be surprised by what Morgan does in 2009.

by David Fucillo on May 30, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

But the preseason is an awful, awful barometer of success

Our 6th string WR was kicking all sorts of ass in the preseason. Our 3rd string RB/punt returner was one of, if not the, leading rushers in the NFL. The Seahawks offense in general was one of the most potent in the preseason. The Lions went undefeated in the preseason, yet the exact opposite happened when it actually counted.

I actually think pretty highly of Morgan but if you’re trying to convince a layman why you’re excited about him, using the preseason is not the way to go.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 30, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

preseason

I realize the starts aren’t a barometer of success. It’s just the fact that he was going to be a starter to open the regular season. Not a sign of greatness, but definitely positive going forward.

by David Fucillo on May 30, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I understand Morgan: Tools guy showing some life

and I understand Crabtree, but I don’t understand Bruce and Bruce is the backbone of that receiving corps. He had a nice little rebirth in the Martz offense, but I figure he will be going over the middle a lot under Raye and that sounds like a good way to end a 36/37 year old legend’s career.

by John Morgan on May 30, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bruce

I think Bruce is surpassed on the depth chart at some point in the season. That wouldn’t surprise me at all. Brandon Jones is the guy that is harder for me to ponder in terms of ceiling and floor. Maybe he’ll suck, maybe not. Can’t even remotely guess.

by David Fucillo on May 30, 2009 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't expect much.

The Titans, with their notoriously bad WR crew, didn’t think highly enough of him to pursue him that much, felt it more prudent to sign Pittsburgh’s 3rd or 4th string WR in free agency. Seems like Bryant Johnson of this offseason if you ask me…

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 30, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not to be belligerent...

and I’ve attempted to preserve a reasonably respectful tone, but is that to say that if Bruce is surpassed that San Fracisco will have a top forty percent (at minimum) receiving corps? Let;s see, top o head: that means (minimum) az, ne, hou, ind, phi, hou, atl, pit, gb (gb!!!), buf, den, nyj? I guess I can see that?

It’s making me a tad homeri…

phobiac

I’m not sure how to end that.

by John Morgan on May 30, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

rankings

I honestly don’t know how they’ll do compared to the rest of the league. I’m just confident they’ll be productive in their own situation.

by David Fucillo on May 30, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

so...

he could be an “A” or an “F”, so why not give the team a “C” which is right in the middle?

by Mind of no mind on May 31, 2009 2:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

That may be,

but that could also have been due to the fact the 49ers had very few established receivers on the roster, especially with the injuries to Arnaz Battle, leading to a more open depth chart.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on May 30, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

my biggest beef with the "B" grade

is that if you even give you’re team a “C” you are basically saying, that there are about 15 or 16 teams in the league that have a better WR situation that you, and 15 or 16 teams that have it worse. I can easily think of more than 15 or 16 teams that are not relying on “potential” to carry them through next season. If all you see in your team is potential, to me that is at best a “C” type group.

by Mind of no mind on May 31, 2009 2:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry for any over-the-top hostility you've received Fooch.

That’s great you have high hopes for the Niners, I think all fans are excited for the season to begin.

Just a word of caution on potential though. There’s a study out there somewhere on how everyone always thinks they’re ‘above average’. I think it was 80% of people thought they were above average (in whatever subject or skill they were asking about), and that only clinically depressed people actually had a grounded reality of their actual skill level. It’s kind of like the kid who gets an average SAT score, but says to himself, ‘oh I was feeling sick’ or ‘I made some dumb errors’ and concludes that he is above average, but the likelihood is that every kid made some dumb mistakes. I think that as Seattle fans (and this may be the homer in me), we’re a bit more realistic, because if there was ever a depressed/negative group of fans, it would be us, though it’s probably more of a self-defense mechanism than anything else.

by LantermanC on May 31, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

above average

No worries on the hostility. If things turn out the way I hope it’ll make me feel all the better. But we’ll see on that.

As far as being optimistic (and I’m not nearly as optimistic as some people at Niners Nation), I think as a fan it’s more enjoyable thinking of the potential good that can open, rather than the bad. Of course, I think it also depends on the team/city you’re dealing with. I can definitely see why Seattle fans would have that sort of self-defense mechanism. You could probably point to a place like Cleveland as having it even more so given the Cavs, Indians and Browns travails over the years.

by David Fucillo on May 31, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

The niners

add a promising but volatile rookie and a certified nobody to an already very mediocre unit. On top of that, their main piece is turning 37 during the season and clearly played his best football a decade ago.

A career year for Brandon Jones would be 500 yards, 4 TD’s- drooling yet?

The niners have a ‘B’ QB situation too. right.

As for the Hawks… Burleson/Housh/Branch (healthy) is going to be lightyears better than McMullen/Robinson/Taylor/ I could go on…

It seems to me like almost all of our units are going to be somewhere around average (a little above or a little below perhaps) including WR, DL, RB, OL, DB, P, K, TE Clearly LB will be very good. I think it will come down to Matt Hasselbeck ’s play, since he could very well be a top 10 QB or put in a 4 game season.

by michaelfox99 on May 31, 2009 7:16 AM PDT reply actions  

Mildy relevant to us as division rivals,

here’s a fantastic piece on the 49ers and their playoff aspirations.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jun 2, 2009 12:51 PM PDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

SEA!

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Avatar_small
The Official Field Gulls OT Thread - In Which We Gush About Our Favorite TV Shows

Recent FanPosts

Photo_on_2011-10-14_at_23
Jim Harbaugh Vs. Pete Carroll
Small
Nation Wide Mock Draft
Small
Could Dre Kirkpatrick be the key to our 2012 draft?
Einstein_www-txt2pic-com_small
Seahawks QB Situation: Not a Defense for Tarvaris Jackson
Small
Team Needs - The National Perception of Seattle
Small
2012 Mock Draft, Version 1.0
Walshrun_small
Super Bowl XLVI Reaction: New England Patriots
Small
My Friend has a Friend who works for Nike...
208114_505637750968_23709013_30160241_9483_n_small
GM John Schneider On The Ideal QB
Bodypaint_small
Delocated ad

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managing Editor/Lead Writer

284430_601240951600_44900771_32958650_2317286_n_small Danny Kelly

Staff Writers/Editors

Screen_shot_2011-01-05_at_9 Scruffy Lefty

Small BrianL

Avatar_small Benne

Olympiabeer_small Tyler Jorgensen

Hatersgonnahate_small Thomas Beekers

Profilepic_small DJ C-Raig

897267_o_small Kenneth Arthur

Halloween_mobster_small Jacson Bevens

Photo__1__small Charlie Todaro

Staff Writers

Small Joshua Kasparek

Mail Matt Erickson

Davis_small Davis Hsu

Profile2_small Rob Staton

208114_505637750968_23709013_30160241_9483_n_small Scott Enyeart

Elephant_pink_clothes_small Chris Sully

Seattle_seahawk_white_1600_reasonably_small_small Derek Stephens

Osprey1_small Ben Harbaugh

Easleystreet2_small ChadDavis45

Bu_fb_2_small Daniel Hill