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NFC West Roundtable: Center

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Blogger: VanRam

The Rams have struggled to find a center since age caught up to Andy McCollum during the 2006 season, and the team parted ways with the then-37-year-old center after an injury riddled 2007 campaign. Heading into 2008, Mark Setterstrom looked like an odds on favorite for the job, but injuries got to him early in camp. The undersized, overmatched duo of Nick Leckey and Brett Romberg started at center for the Rams last season, making the middle of the offensive line by far the weakest link on an already troubled offense. Half of the numerous sacks endured by Rams passers last year came through the middle, which is to say nothing about how much the run game suffered.

Under new management and coaches, the Rams made a huge splash in the free agent market, signing Ravens C Jason Brown, the most coveted offensive lineman to reach free agency this year, to a lucrative five-year, $37 million deal. Whether or not they paid too much is beside the point. The Rams desperately needed to do something at center or risk losing the investments they've made in Steven Jackson and Marc Bulger. Brown, just 26, will be a cornerstone of an up and coming offensive line that could be the best in the division, if not this year, then very soon. Not bad for a unit that was the team's biggest liability just a few months ago.

Depth is a concern, but the Rams have a good situation in regards to their middle linemen. Should Brown not be available, they can plug in the capable Mark Setterstrom, who they would have killed to have at center last year. They also have the option of sliding RG Richie Incognito over to center and replacing him with either Setterstrom or John Greco (more on those names in the guard write-up) and be just fine in the middle. Grade: A

Star-divide

San Francisco 49ers
Blogger: Fooch

Center is a tough position to grade when it comes to the 49ers.  They've got a very solid guy starting in Eric Heitmann (underrated in the league), but their depth is questionable at best.
 
Heitmann is still on the right side of 30 and quietly has been a very impressive center for the 49ers.  Last season, Mike Martz actually referred to Heitmann as the best center he's ever coached by far.  That can certainly be taken with a grain of salt, but it goes to show what some folks think of him.   While the team is developing young talent around him, Heitmann has been the anchor of the line.  Heitmann had fallen off the radar a bit due to a broken leg late in 2006.  He struggled in 2007 while recovering, but seemed to be completely recovered in 2008.  While he's not the most athletic of centers, he is able to stand his ground and anchor the line.
 
Behind Heitmann, question marks abound.  Cody Wallace is listed as the backup center but it's hard to tell if he'll amount to anything in the coming years.  He's entering his second year in the league and saw no playing time his rookies season so it's hard to tell what he can provide the 49ers.  As a 4th round pick, there's just not a whole lot to work with looking ahead.  The 49ers signed Heitmann to an extension through 2011 and if he stays healthy, Wallace might never see more than some backup time.  This preseason could be big for determining Wallace's future role.
 
Although not listed as a center on most depth charts at this point, guard Tony Wragge filled in for Heitmann back in late 2006 after Heitmann broke his leg.  If Heitmann went down again, Wallace might get a crack at the lineup, but it wouldn't exactly surprise me to see Wragge moved back over to center.  Wragge is not great by any means, but he's a serviceable backup.
 

Given the lack of backup options, I'm probably grading this a little high, but I am really this happy with Eric Heitmann as the 49ers center this year.  Grade: B

Seattle Seahawks
Blogger: John Morgan

Seattle selected Chris Spencer with the 26th overall pick in the 2005 draft. He was just the thirteenth center selected in the first round since the merger. Spencer was a great athlete and considered a safe pick. Fans envisioned a future star. Upon further inspection, that was an unreasonable expectation. Of the sixteen centers since 1970 selected in the first round, only three were ever elected to a Pro Bowl and only one was elected to multiple Pro Bowls: Don Mosebar.

Instead, investing in a first round center is investing in a starting center. Only one of the thirteen was a true bust, Robert Shaw, and Shaw blew out his knee and was forced into retirement. That’s what Chris Spencer is, a starting center. He started 29 games in 2006 and 2007 after apprenticing under Robbie Tobeck, and was shut down in 2008 only after the season was lost. He’s a steady center that shows flashes of great athleticism and physical dominance, but hasn’t developed into a consistent or technically sound blocker. His footwork is unrefined, though he’s improved enough to not trip over himself. Spencer is derided for a few reasons. Mike Holmgren was critical of his play. He reportedly was slow to pick up line calls. He is wont to the big gaffe. Finally, he’s not Robbie Tobeck, and the memory of Tobeck has grown well beyond the man. Spencer is physically gifted. He’s a former record setting power-lifter and rare- quick and agile for a center. So there’s still chance of breakout in a big way.

Max Unger is not the opposite of Chris Spencer; he’s more like the negative. Unger is not nearly as powerful and might struggle against stronger nose tackles. He’s not unrefined and full of potential, but skilled and NFL-ready. He’s a good athlete, but a better offensive lineman. Unger could overtake Spencer or settle in at guard. He’s a natural center and has expressed his desire to play the position.

Between the two, the polished rookie and the veteran full of potential, Seattle should have an above average starting center and the best center depth in the NFL. The grade is tilted towards the starter, but accounting for Spencer’s potential, Unger’s potential, Spencer’s standing level of play, Unger's polish and Seattle’s depth at the position, this is a solid B with a chance to be better.

Arizona Cardinals
Blogger: cgolden

The Cardinals opened training camp last year with what most assumed to be a decent veteran starter at center and the 'center of the future' as his primary backup. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, the veteran starting center, Al Johnson, never recovered from off season surgery and was placed on IR in early September. That move pushed young Lyle Sendlein, an undrafted second year player, into the starting lineup and left virtually no one to back him up. Luckily for the Cardinals, Sendlein stayed healthy, at least enough to play, all season long although most would say that his play was average at best. As with most undersized centers, Sendlein excelled at getting to the next level and picking up linebackers but he struggled with facing larger nose tackles either in the running game or passing game. Of course we know now that he played most of the season with a bum shoulder that required surgery in the off season but questions still remained about his future as a starter.

Head coach Ken Whisenhunt gave Sendlein a vote of confidence shortly before the draft, saying that he had the potential to be a great center in the league, and he backed it up by not addressing the position in the draft until late in the seventh round. Sendlein enters this season as the unquestioned starter and with a surgically repaired shoulder and more strength than he's had in years, there are hopes that he'll take the next step in his third season.

The depth behind Sendlein is still shaky, at best. There are three other 'true centers' on the current roster (Ben Claxton, Donovan Raiola and Patt Ross) and their respective careers have consisted of two games during the 2005 season. Trevor Canfield, the 254th overall selection this April is capable of playing guard and he's got a chance to be the primary backup if he performs well in camp. There's a good possibility though that if Sendlein were to go down for any length of time the interior of the line would get shuffled around with right guard, Reggie Wells, sliding over to center and someone stepping into his guard spot. Basically, the Cardinals need to have Sendlein healthy if they want anything close to average performance from the center position. Overall grade: C

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No mention of Vallos?

I’m usually a little more optimistic than JM (grade on a higher, more “homeric” scale), but I’m not sure I have the same confidence on the center position. I’m cautiously optimistic that we may end the season with a decent starting center, but have no expectations that we’ll have “good” (B-grade) center play throughout the season.

Spencer is on the edge here (either he steps up and performs or gets the boot) and Unger seems to have the tools to fill the spot, but hasn’t played an NFL down yet. So we either go with the undependable (Spencer), the unpredictable (Unger) or the comfortably mediocre (Vallos).

And what is up with Fooch? Is he banging out these posts on a keyboard that slowly loses keys (like the typewriter in Misery), so that all he has left is the “B” key? I don’t know a thing about the Niner’s center, but I successfully predicted the grade before I read the post.

by ninjasocks on Jun 12, 2009 12:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think we're safe to just knock any SF grade down a full level, even without knowing the subject matter, yet.

So far I’m batting 1,000 doing that.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer

by Misfit74 on Jun 12, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True.

And there will be a LB ‘A’ grade for Willis, I imagine at some point, which I’ll agree with.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer

by Misfit74 on Jun 12, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

MLB, maybe.

Overall, no. Takeo Spikes is a fossil and Manny Lawson hasn’t been anywhere near the pass-rushing terror he was drafted to be.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jun 12, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I certainly am not enamored with the entire corps of LBs in SF.

No question. But MLB, yes.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer

by Misfit74 on Jun 12, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spikes

I wouldn’t call him a fossil. He had a very solid season last year and while he might not be the best out there, he still brings something to the table as the Ted linebacker.

As far as outside linebackers, don’t forget that Parys Haralson had more sacks than anybody in the NFC West and he wasn’t even a full time player thanks to Mike Nolan jerking him around.

by Fooch on Jun 12, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Haralson is easy to miss but looks good. If he continues going as he was last year, expect him to be a household name amongst us NFCWesters by the end of this season.

That said, if you do give the entire LB corpse (not sure if you’re splitting inside and outside) an A, we will mock you relentlessly, Fooch.

by Vasilii on Jun 12, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Takeo Spikes may be old but not quite yet a corpse.

Okay, I’ll leave in shame now.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jun 12, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

linebackers

Given that we’re breaking up the offensive line, it would only make sense to do the linebackers individually. I’d imagine middle/inside as one and outside as another given the difference between the 3-4 and 4-3.

by Fooch on Jun 12, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why not? He's nearing 33 and showed some age related decline as far back as his tenure with the Eagles.

He wasn’t bad by any means last season but who’s to say he won’t decline due to age?

And how many of Haralson’s sacks were coverage sacks? Not discounting him, I actually want to know.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jun 12, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haralson

Don’t know off the top of my head.

As for Spikes, sure he could decline due to age. At the same time, he’s not in a position where he has to be a playmaker next to Willis. It’s a big plus, but his role in the Ted is different than his previous roles.

by Fooch on Jun 12, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see.

While you’re here, what do you think of Manny Lawson? Do you think he will contribute anything as a pass-rusher?

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jun 12, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lawson

It’s tough to tell. While we’d love to see some pass rushing skills, he’s been used more frequently in a coverage role. That was part of the problem with the random defense Mike Nolan was employing. Supposedly they’re going to utilize him as more of a pass rusher this year, but obviously who knows what will happen. The potential is definitely there, but he’s a big question mark until he actually proves himself as an NFL pass rusher.

by Fooch on Jun 12, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My avg. just went down...

:(

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer

by Misfit74 on Jun 12, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't call Vallos a mediocre Center

I think we saw enough of him last year to realize that while he was a stand-up guy to fill the role, he’s not a Center. Though the uncertainties of how players will perform in the ZBS leaves my head spinning.

by Groundhog on Jun 12, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

For a guy who hadn't played center in college, he was great.

He did ok in the job, I just don’t think he’s really above average or has great potential as a center. I didn’t say he was bad, I just wouldn’t want him starting for us. On the other hand, I think he makes a pretty decent 3rd stringer.

by ninjasocks on Jun 12, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant that Vallos was worse than mediocre,

Not better (mediocre being average). It’s certainly nice to have depth at a postion that’s been missing depth for the last couple of years. That being said, Vallos is one of those guys who may not even be on the team this year unless he shows something at Guard.

by Groundhog on Jun 12, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Center seems like a weird position to grade.

I would’ve thought it would’ve been the entire O-line as a unit.

I wonder if there were a poll of all 30 teams how many people would give their centers a D or an F. For whatever reason it just seems like a bad center is a C or a C-. Maybe because they can’t hurt you as bad? And if they do suck, it’s not as noticeable as a TE who can’t catch a ball?

by LantermanC on Jun 12, 2009 12:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

even though I'm a Cardinals fan, I'll admit that's a really good point

I’m sure that there weren’t too many centers who were as bad as Sendlein was for most of last year, although the injury didn’t help I’m sure. But a bad center can get a ton of help from his guards and very rarely takes anyone on mano-a-mano.

by Bezekira on Jun 12, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sean Mahan, Steelers C 2007.

That guy was a one-man liability on nearly every snap. Most starting centers aren’t awful to that point, but I suppose there are a few that blow to the point that you actually notice them.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jun 12, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Liking these more and more..

At first these roundtables seemed a little over-hoemristic, but I have to say, they’ve greatly improved with time. Awesome stuff.

by mjkleko on Jun 12, 2009 1:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed on all accounts

Heitmann is underrated. Wanted Jason Brown. Didn’t really realize til now, this is kind of a strong division for Centers.

by jacobstevens on Jun 12, 2009 1:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I Heitmann responsible for part of the 55 sacks allowed (31st in NFL)?

And 32nd ranking in power-running?

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer

by Misfit74 on Jun 12, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sacks

I’d prefer to blame Martz’s offense and J.T. O’Sullivan’s amazing ability to hold on to the ball for way too long. The offensive line had its struggles, but I don’t place too much blame on Heitmann. They moved a rookie in at one guard position and were moving a second year player (Staley) from one tackle position to the other tackle position. Even if there were no changes to the O-line, the sack number would go down this season.

by Fooch on Jun 12, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see your point.

Martz offenses have tended to contribute to high sack totals. I would think that power running would feature the Center much of the time on short-yardage runs, however. I wish I had a better way to study that, but the FO stats reveal poor line numbers in several categories – specific to the line, though coverage sacks aren’t a part of it that I can see.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer

by Misfit74 on Jun 12, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sacks

I’m also laying a good deal of blame specifically on J.T. O’Sullivan. I don’t have the number of “dropbacks” at hand, but from basic stats he was sacked 32 times and attempted 220 passes. Shaun Hill was sacked 23 times and attempted 288 passes. Not all that scientific, but I think it’s useful to know.

by Fooch on Jun 12, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know how much C's can be responsible for the sacks

Aside from blocking assignments, I don’t think the centers are usually responsible for sacks. They’re usually facing the DTs, who (aside from a few notable exceptions) aren’t getting to the QB as much as the DEs.

On the other hand, the interior line is probably more responsible for power rushing than the tackles.

by ninjasocks on Jun 12, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You would have to split before it's measurable

Are we talking inside rushes or edge rushes? Interior running or sideline scrambles? If you don’t split these stats, you can’t say much meaningful about who is responsible, and even when you do split it’s still hard to put the blame on a single player in the OL without tape, since the OL – when functioning properly – functions as a whole.

Without said numbers it’s hard to objectively judge a center. I can’t say I feel much for the argument “the OL was terrible so the C probably was too”, tho’.

by Vasilii on Jun 12, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hear, hear

I have enjoyed these roundtables, too. As someone who sneaks his off-season football fixes in four-minute increments, I appreciate the one-stop-shopping aspect for doing a quick scouting of the division, and (if I may be homeric), I think JM’s yeoman Seahawks coverage is rubbing off on the other contributors to this roundtable series. Good job, everyone.

by dagraham on Jun 12, 2009 1:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

"only three were ever elected to a Pro Bowl and only one was elected to multiple Pro Bowls: Don Mosebar."

Kevin Mawae?

Or was he drafted as a guard?

Also, Fooch…

Eh at least I’m used to the Bs by now.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jun 12, 2009 2:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Mawae was drafted as a center

But in the 2nd round at pick #36.

Seattle Seahawks: We've got Brian Russell and TWO kickers!

by SSreporters on Jun 12, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, my bad.

I thought he was a first rounder. Maybe I was thinking of Pete Kendall.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jun 12, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy crap.

I just made a reference to the exact same Simpsons episode.

“GO AHEAD, WASTE YOUR VOTE”.

by djafrot on Jun 12, 2009 7:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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