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Fact Checking and Decoding Greg Knapp's Interview with John Clayton

The follow up question is dead. Long live the fact check. John Clayton didn't clarify much of what Greg Knapp said, so we're left trying to figure out both the implications and veracity of Knapp's statements. The matter at hand, as Mike Sando encapsulates it is:

The Seahawks will favor personnel groups with one running back, two receivers and two tight ends. They will also use three-receiver groupings with one back and one tight end. It all adds up to less playing time for the fullback, one reason the Seahawks didn't make a big play for Leonard Weaver in free agency.

Knapp's 2007 Oakland Raiders and 2006 Atlanta Falcons were both in the bottom third of the league in usage of two+ tight end sets1. They were used on 15% and 24% of all plays respectively. The 2005 Falcons used two+ tight ends on 31% of all plays, eighth in the league. The second tight end was a pure blocking tight end, Dwayne Blakely. John Owens is a pure blocking tight end. The 2005 Falcons were also, not insubstantially, a team quarterbacked by Michael Vick. The team had three wide receivers to speak of and ran on 51% of all plays (fourth in the league) and 51% of all plays in the first half (first in the league). Vick accounted for 85 non-kneel down run plays.

That season, Atlanta was second to last in the league running three+ wide receiver sets. It used three wide receiver sets on just 36% of all plays. In 2006 and for the 2007 Raiders, Knapp used the formation a bit more often, but it was still seldom used. Knapp used 3+ wide receiver sets on 43% of all plays in 2006, 23rd, and 45% of all plays in 2007, 22nd. But as mentioned, those seasons Knapp's use of two tight end sets dropped. A fact-checking aside: It's unlikely Knapp will use more three wide receiver sets than Mike Holmgren who was regularly in the top ten or top five for total plays started out of three wide receivers.

The increased use of two tight end sets and three wide receiver sets indicate this is a new kind of offense for Knapp. Complementing that, in 2005, Knapp used a single back on 36% of all plays, 27th in the league. In 2006, he used a single back on 50% of all plays, jumping to 19th in the league. And in 2007, he used a single back on 47% of all plays, a relative drop to 28th in the league. Holmgren used a single back 40%, 41% and 49% from 2005-2007, in no small part because the transition from Mack Strong to Leonard Weaver. This new offense will pull from three separate seasons and therefore be unlike any of the three.

Three men called plays in 2008 and that adulterates the play-call data, if not probably changing the playbook itself. The fact checking says Weaver wasn't let go because he'll be involved in fewer blocking plays, but that Weaver would have been involved in fewer total plays, specifically out of single back sets and as a rusher and receiver. So, a less diplomatic statement might be that Seattle didn't think Weaver was valuable enough as a blocking back to pay him the $1 million more he received from Philadelphia than Seattle paid Justin Griffith, and of the many ways Knapp has changed his playbook, playing his fullback as a feature back was not going to be one of them. The more interesting story is the changing and hopefully adaptable nature of Knapp's play calling. I may be skeptical as to the importance of coaching*, but I know matching scheme to talent matters, and Knapp must see something in his two tight end and three wide receiver sets that match Seattle's personnel, that maximize Matt Hasselbeck.

1 All formation data courtesy Pro Football Prospectus.

* Would 2-3 wins be an understatement of the importance of coaching? It would make the coaching staff the single most important non-quarterback actor on a team's play.

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Don't you mean

3 WR sets?

A fact-checking aside: It’s unlikely Knapp will use more three tight end sets than Mike Holmgren who was regularly in the top ten or top five for total plays started out of three wide receivers.

3 TE sets would be….interesting?

by Fear on Jun 2, 2009 4:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So I guess the next question is why.

What does Knapp see in the offensive personnel that would cause him to pull from those 3 seasons? My guess would be this is the most versatile team he’s coached since the 9ners with a veteran QB, several decent to good receivers and serviceable backs.

by Nate Dogg on Jun 2, 2009 4:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow, very insightful

I’m with you. I spent a lot of time thinking about that interview, and most of this, didn’t occur to me.

And most of it is encouraging, both suggesting adaptation to talent (at QB) and that alleged “tendencies” before don’t necessarily have a forebearance on our offense this year.

One isn’t quite as encouraging, though, and one is still odd to me. It suggests to me, Knapp and possibly Mora see Hasselbeck’s ability to make “all the throws” in a way that makes them conclude, let’s deliberately work the TE and the slot a lot more. Carlson/Houshmandzadeh fantasy owners are down, but whether they’re right or wrong that’s not the best possible scenario for the team.

The odd part is what is different between Dunn & Duckett, and Jones & Duckett, to so deliberately distance this year’s team from 2005 (and, by memory, 2004). I guess Vick is one big factor. But mostly it makes me ask, was Vick the reason for more 2-back sets, or is confidence in Julius Jones the reason for going away from so many 2-back sets?

And if the answer is, they do have that much confidence in Jones, the next question is, how warranted is that?

And no, I don’t think 2-3 wins would be an understatement. About right.

by jacobstevens on Jun 2, 2009 4:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He mentioned 2 tight end - one back as part of the zone philosophy to balance out the defense

which I hadn’t really thought of before. Basically the blocking tight end usually stays in as a sixth offensive lineman for pass plays? And then obviously blocks on run plays. I wonder what the basic advantage is vs using a fullback? How does it benefit specifically a zone blocking scheme? That they’re already at the line to start blocking immediately and the RB doesn’t have to wait for the FB to make his block?

by B.B.Finnegan on Jun 2, 2009 5:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Seems like a TE would be more helpful with edge rushers

our tackles have had issues with some of the speedier pass rush specialists.

by Nate Dogg on Jun 2, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

IMO that last sentence sounds like a solid reason

Just a guess on my part – but in a ZBS, the RB is responsible for reading where the hole is and making the cut. This means that the FB & RB really have to be on the same page, see the field the same way, and identify the same hole. It’s not effective when the FB zigs but the RB zags.

By replacing the FB with a TE, you eliminate one potential source of a communication breakdown or execution error. Being on the LOS, the TE is going to have his blocking assignment determined by how the D lines up across from him. – not having to make the judgment call that a FB would.

I wonder if this provides a rationale for why Knapp would seem to use a greater amount of 2TE sets in his first years installing the offense? IMO, it looks like a good way to simplify things and stay productive while your RBs & FBs develop the “feel” for working with each other and making the same reads.

by jteckmann on Jun 2, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking about this some more

Considering zone blocking uses the cutback a lot, I’m sure most of the time they don’t even follow the fullback.

On the interview they also talked about Hasselbeck’s smarts with recognizing defenses and calling audibles. The two tight end set is usually symmetrical (compared to a one tight end which has a strong side and split backs, typically the fullback on the same side as the TE) which makes it much easier to audible a run to either side without changing the formation. So basically if the defense lines up asymmetrically to a 2 TE offense, or crowds one side, you audible a run to their weak side and with the zone block scheme, the RB can either cut it between the tackles, or bounce outside depending on what the linebacker does. Or call the play towards the strong side of the defense, get their momentum moving that way, and cut back completely the other way. This would seem to force a defense to play honest and spread out, and spreading out the defense is something (I think) that would benefit a zone blocking scheme, since it doesn’t mater so much WHERE a hole opens up, only that a hole does open up.

Ideally it’d be nice to have two tight ends who can both block and catch, which makes sense in the recent Carlson interview that they’re getting him to work on his blocking.

by B.B.Finnegan on Jun 2, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It spreads out the defense.

A QB, RB, and FB in the backfield allows defenses to hide blitzing linebackers. I think two tight end formations, with Carlson being able to motion out wide, force a linebacker to cover him in space, presenting match-up problems that force safeties double him. This opens up the deep-ball that has been missing.

I love were their heads are at, it makes sense.

"Superhero like even"

by censor1979 on Jun 3, 2009 7:10 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

and I’m a big fan of the two tight end set. I only wish Seattle had invested in another tight end that could receive. Of course, Morrah could surprise.

by John Morgan on Jun 3, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Newton still around?

He is a guy that seemed like he might be able to receive.

by cashless on Jun 3, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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