Seattle Seahawks Injury Status: Defensive End

by John Morgan on Jul 21, 2009 12:46 PM PDT Comment 22 comments

More photos » Elaine Thompson - AP

Brett Favre has battled pill addiction, chronic logorrhea and a late-career case of the sucks, but not missed a start in 16 years. And that's how he earned this grizzled, pained face. Next time you're hurt, Lawrence Jackson, just tell someone and sit out a game.

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Patrick Kerney: Seattle placed Patrick Kerney on injured reserve November 19, 2008 with a torn labrum in his left shoulder. It was the second time he had torn that labrum in under a year. He then had surgery to remove bone chip in his left elbow on April 28, 2009. It's unknown whether Kerney will be ready in time for training camp. Evidence how the internet echo chamber baffles, USA Today and RotoWorld report that Kerney will not be ready for the start of training camp, but link to a Danny O'neil blog post that states "The bone-chip removal will not keep him from starting training camp."

Lawrence Jackson: Jackson played in 16 games and started 14. He did not appear on the official injury report all season. Then, in an oh-by-the-way during an interview with Mitch Levy, Jackson said he suffered a right foot injury in week one and did not feel himself until the final four weeks of the season. He has fully participated in mini camp. Barring unreported leprosy, Jackson is a go for training camp.

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Leper or not

That guy needs to get some sacks this year

The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.

by Nick Andron on Jul 21, 2009 1:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

"The bone-chip removal will not keep him from starting training camp."

Maybe O’Neil means that the bone-chip removal won’t be the reason Kerney will miss training camp if he does, and perhaps the torn labrum recovery is responsible for that.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jul 21, 2009 1:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

And boy was Jackson playing lights out in those final four weeks he was himself

Ugh. But I don’t want to rag too much on the rookie, cos I like the guy and hope he turns into a beast this year.

by B.B.Finnegan on Jul 21, 2009 2:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If our DTs play like they can

And Kerney is at least something like he was at least at the start of last year, there is no excuse for Jackson to not be at least good. 6 sacks, minimum.

Guyz, I need ur help. Im txting from my iphone. I'm at a girls house i like, & i had 2 go 2 the bthroom. It was #2, & i clogged the toilet, water is everywhere. What should I do?

by MontpikeMike on Jul 21, 2009 5:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I needed a little LJ refresher.

I took note of his moves. Well, his move: run right by the guy trying to block him and sack the QB. Many sacks on this video, but a range of moves is absent. I wonder what his strengths will be at the NFL level? He looks like he can really move, though, for a man 271.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/video/nfl-draft/NFL-Draft-Lawrence-Jackson-Highlights-2173

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer

by Misfit74 on Jul 21, 2009 9:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Good on ya

for this. Yeah, just moving really well for his size is what comes through. He burst through a gap as a 3-tech tackle, towards the end, pretty well, lined up over the B gap ala Spagnuolo, and the guards just didn’t get in front of him, so that’s not too promising either, but it looked nice.

by jacobstevens on Jul 22, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why the cynical dumping on Jackson?

The “leprosy” crack about LoJack makes it sound like he is being accused of faking an injury. Where is the evidence for that? The guy was a rookie playing against veteran NFL Left Tackles for Godsakes.

by Stevo's on Jul 22, 2009 10:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I've heard it said that every player in the NFL is injured every year

Some injuries prevent players from playing, some injuries reduce the performance of players and some injuries just hurt. If a player suffers an injury of the last type and experiences reduced performance, then he may not have the toughness necessary to be effective in the NFL.

None of us understands the type of injury Jackson faced or the type of performance that he may have had, had he not been injured. There is some expectation, though, that the injuries he faced may not have been too severe, as he was ok’d by the Hawks’ coaches and doctors to play in all 16 regular season games.

Was Jackson hampered by a significant injury? An insignificant injury? A deficit in talent or athleticism or experience or toughness? We don’t know, but we may find out next year.

by ninjasocks on Jul 22, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jackson

This is off the topic of injuries, but I notice that Lawrence Jackson seems to be a favorite whipping boy here. I watched Jackson last year and all I saw was a rookie still learning how to handle NFL-caliber offensive linemen. I think people should give him a break.

LoJack’s rookie year was not that bad. Here’s the rookie stats for Jackson, Darryl Tapp, and Pat Kerney:

Jackson
rookie 2008 Seattle Seahawks
16 games / 14 starts
29 tackles / 21 assists
2.0 sacks

Tapp
rookie 2006 Seattle Seahawks
16 games / 0 starts
33 tackles / 22 assists
3.0 sacks

Kerney
rookie 1999 Atlanta Falcons
16 games / 2 starts
19 tackles / 6 assists
2.5 sacks

LoJack’s rookie year had stats similar to Tapp’s and better than Kerney’s. Funny, I never hear people say Tapp was terrible in his rookie year, or that Kerney was a washout, but they like to dump on LoJack. What can you really expect out of a rookie playing against NFL Left Offensive Tackles?

In Tapp’s second year he improved to 49 tackles and 7 sacks. If LoJack improves as much then I think everyone should get off his back.

by Stevo's on Jul 22, 2009 11:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Can you directly compare raw sacks/tackles/etc like that?

I’m agnostic, but hopeful about Jackson, so I’m trying more to ask questions than make assertions.

How many snaps are in 16 starts vs 16 games played as a reserve (in basketball 15 and 5 as a reserve is way more impresive than 15 and 5 as a starter)? Do you need to take into account strength of schedule, scheme or the pass-rush ability of the guy on the other side of the DTs?

Obviously the stats are pretty similar for all three players. I’m just wondering if they tell the whole story.

by ninjasocks on Jul 22, 2009 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm agnostic but hopeful too

and I agree that those stats don’t tell the whole story. My only real point was that no one should expect much out of any rookie, and especially not a rookie RDE, since they are thrown in to play against the opponent’s premier O lineman and should be expected to struggle.

by Stevo's on Jul 23, 2009 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Defensive ends don't typically break out

They develop, but if pass rush ability is present it usually shows itself early. I looked at page one of the NFL leader board for sacks. It’s 47 players. Of that 47, in the first year they had significant playing time, something close to what Jackson had, all in their first, second or third year in the league, 35 of the 47 had more than two sacks. That’s about 75%. They averaged about 4.5 sacks in that season. That number is somewhat reduced, too, because some of the top 47 players switched scheme and transitioned from routine linebackers to blitzing linebackers. The fact is, Lawrence Jackson saw a ton of snaps and generated almost no pass rush. That’s not damning, but it is discouraging.

I don’t think Jackson faked an injury, but I do think an injury that lasted most of the season but did not show up on the official injury report was either minor or concealed. And neither possibility speaks well of Jackson.

by John Morgan on Jul 23, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jackson was forced to start

first to kick off the season, even though he didn’t earn it, and then after being benched, due to injury. He got significantly more snaps than they did as reserves, to get about the same number of stats, roughly, which don’t accurately reflect quality, anyway.

People just want to see something encouraging, usually. If the potential is on display, if development is tangible, then they’re optimistic. I do doubt his injury’s impact. If he gets 7 sacks and has a year like Tapp did, people will get off his back. He’s still a 1st round pick, so expectations for some might still be higher, but by and large, just showing development is what we want.

by jacobstevens on Jul 23, 2009 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he can get more than 4 sacks I'll be happy.

Defensive ends taken in his position average 4.03 sacks their second season.

by John Morgan on Jul 23, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is misleading.

I don’t hold Jackson’s stats in high regard, because for one, both sacks came against the 49ers, who arguably had the worst offensive line in the league and protecting JT ‘Hold the ball’ O’Sullivan (and one sack wasn’t even behind the LoS), and I’m assuming since he started 14 games, he had far more snaps than Tapp and Kerney did coming off the bench in their rookie seasons.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jul 23, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok, the stats are not easily compared

that said, Jackson played against the 49ers twice last year and he got two sacks. Tapp played against the 49ers twice and got 0 sacks.

All I was trying to show was that Tapp and Kerney were both very limited as rookies, and no one should have expected more out of Jackson than what we got. Just because he had lots of snaps doesn’t mean he was coached up and ready for all those plays. He was in a learning process, got thrown into the fire, and looked pretty overwhelmed as a rookie, but he shouldn’t be judged yet.

by Stevo's on Jul 24, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking that LoJack's draft position is why people harp on him.

But then I looked, and Kerney was drafted 30th, and got only 2.5 sacks in each of his first two seasons. Then he blossomed to 12.5 in his third year.

by djafrot on Jul 22, 2009 11:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Oops.

Meant to be a reply to Stevo’s.

by djafrot on Jul 22, 2009 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's rare.

Most players that underperform their rookie season do not become great players later in their careers.

by John Morgan on Jul 23, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought you have said DE production does not come on right away for many DEs.

that the learning curve for DEs is steep and that DEs in the first and second year often struggle. As you said above, if Defensive Ends taken in his position average 4 sacks in their second season, and he was taken late in the 1st round, then is his production really an “underperformance?”

Now looking at how he played on tape and seeing trouble spots, that I can get behind. But I’m not sure the production is something I am too concerned about, he would not be the first rookie to struggle in his first or even second year out of the first round, it happens all the time at most positions. He still will be given the training and opportunity to improve, and hopefully he is the smart and hardworking player he seemed to be and is able to get it in the next couple years.

by cashless on Jul 23, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

For the sake of full disclosure

I was very excited about Jackson and his potential. I wrote glowing things about him after week one, but was very disappointed with his play for most of the season. Maybe that has led me to be unduly harsh.

by John Morgan on Jul 23, 2009 12:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs