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NFC West Roundtable: Outside Linebacker

The easy answer is "A". A sub-Pro Bowl starter in his prime, Leroy Hill, and a once in a generation talent at linebacker, Aaron Curry – that’s got to be an "A".

Leroy Hill struggles in zone coverage. He’s an after the fact tackler that is lucky to track down whatever receiver just blew by him. He hasn’t has been a consistent pass rusher since his rookie season, and though that might be because boneheadedness on John Marshall’s part, it might be that like Lofa Tatupu, he can’t find gaping inside rush lanes absent monstrous Marcus Tubbs. Hill has missed time every season since his rookie season with injuries.

Aaron Curry is a rookie. Even given the better than average success NFL GM’s enjoy drafting linebackers, first overall linebackers have less than a 60% chance of ever making a Pro Bowl. They have a less than 40% chance of ever making two Pro Bowls. Curry wasn’t highly recruited out of high school and wasn’t a standout throughout his college career. He was an amazing senior and his stock exploded after an amazing Combine. He was never a great pass rusher at Wake Forest. Curry is projected to be a good pass rusher, but projections that don’t accord with reality have a way of disappointing. He’s a little stiff in his swivel and though much younger, probably less agile than departed Seahawk Julian Peterson.

So, then…

Both are monster run stoppers. Not tackle – tackle – tackle run stoppers, but jam the fullback into his locker, atomic wedgie the tight end and rip through the ball for a loss of four…teeth, run stoppers.

Both shutdown the screen pass and make a fumble as likely as a completion.

Both have rare closing speed, good agility, sound and sometimes punishing tackling technique and good field awareness.

Curry has the skills and tools to be a Lance Briggs caliber pass defender.

Hill has the skills and tools to be a Chad Brown caliber pass rusher.

But there’s still too much locked into potential and not enough known about how they will be played and how they will develop, so though Hill and Curry comprise the most talented duo of outside linebackers in the entire NFL, they are not yet an "A", they are a "B" with crazy upside.

D.D. Lewis, David Hawthorne, Will Herring and Lance Laury make up the depth we know. I’ve spoken of Lewis and Hawthorne. Herring is a former safety that’s a linebacker electron. His speed and agility give him potential as a coverage specialist, but he needs to add bulk and strength to not be a liability against the run. I’m not sure Laury makes the team.

Star-divide

Turf Show Times
Blogger: VanRam

In a division trademarked for its linebackers, the St. Louis Rams were embarrassingly substandard last year, thanks to poor decision making that left Will Witherspoon in the middle and arrogantly allowed an emerging Brandon Chillar to flee for greener, more frozen pastures. Addressing the situation at linebacker has been a top offseason priority for the defensive-minded new regime led by head coach Steve Spagnuolo and defensive coordinator Ken Flajole. 

The Rams made their first big move of the offseason when they announced that Will Witherspoon would be moved back to his natural position on the weakside. That move was deemed so important, it happened before the free agent free for all and well ahead of the draft. The move will free up the athletic Witherspoon from having to take on huskier linemen and lead blockers in the middle, where he was long miscast with the Rams. Besides giving the team a more effective LB in coverage and pursuit, Witherspoon's presence on the outside gives them another threat to rush the passer. He won't likely top his career high 7 sacks from 2007, but he'll get plenty of work in the attack-first system. He's also being reunited with Ken Flajole, his linebackers coach with the Panthers

The Rams have desperately needed a true middle linebacker and snagged  their man, James Laurinaitis, with their second round pick. He has the size and ability to read and react well to action in the gaps in front of him, and displayed real talent against the run and in coverage. Most importantly, Little Animal has the intelligence and football acumen to be the "field general" that Spagnuolo has traditionally asked his middle linebackers to play. Laurinaitis won't be known for bone crushing hits like Rey Maualuga, the other top MLB in this year's draft, but he's a solid tackler and a tough player. Lots of draft pundits felt like NFL success early on was a realistic expectation for Laurinaitis. He's currently working out with the second team, but no one expects him to stay there. Early reports have been very positive.

On the strongside, the picture gets muddled after the release of Pisa Tinoisamoa, deemed a less-than-perfect fit for the new defensive scheme. Though Pisa was a contributor, it's easy to forget that he battled consistency from week to week and often had trouble with blown gap assignments and bigger, more physical blockers. Right now, three players are vying for the SLB spot in the starting lineup. Veteran Chris Draft tops the list at the moment, but his ability to play all three positions likely keeps him in the all-important utility role. Larry Grant, a 49ers cast off picked up to bolster special teams last year, is another candidate for the job thanks to an impressive work ethic (a commodity valued immensely by the new coaching staff), a good spring and strong, yet unheralded performances with the team last year. Don't discount the something-to-prove factor at play here as Grant gets the chance to see the 49ers twice a year. He was also a teammate of Laurinaitis at Ohio State. The third entrant in the SLB sweepstakes is last year's Mr. Irrelevant, David Vobora. The former Idaho Vandal saw action on special teams last year and in the LB rotation for 8 games. He ended up starting a game down the stretch - partly for an audition, partly out of need - and racked up 5 tackles, 4 solo, in a tight game against the Dolphins

Vobora and Grant should both make the roster, regardless of who gets the starting job. After those five, the depth chart is rounded out by Quinton Culberson and Chris Chamberlain. Culberson was tapped to start on the strongside at the beginning of last year, but was promptly replaced. He has talent that needs to be honed into a more consistent product. He'll have the chance to do that in camp this year, but if he can't put it together Culberson will be another casualty of regime change. Chamberlain is another seventh round pick from last year. He may get some work in the rotation given his play in coverage, but he'll be counted on to step up his strong special teams play from last year. There are a couple of other names in the mix from undrafted rookie pool, the most intriguing among them being Mississippi State's Dominic Douglas, who led the SEC in tackles last season. 

The Rams are in a much better place with their linebackers than they have been in a long, long time, thanks mostly to the addition of Laurinaitis and Witherspoon's move back to his natural spot. There are still very real concerns about depth here, and it would surprise no one to see the team pluck a roster casualty when teams start making cuts this fall. Spagnuolo and Flajole have reputations for finding diamonds in the rough among defensive players and their success with linebackers is being counted upon here.

San Francisco 49ers
Blogger: Fooch

49ers Outside Linebackers
 
Whereas the 49ers have established, proven talent at inside linebacker, the outside linebackers bring a mix of production and question marks.  I would argue the 49ers outside linebackers could end up just about anywhere on the spectrum from crap to great and it wouldn't surprise me at this point.
 
Parys Haralson was by far the most productive OLB for the 49ers last season, leading the team with 8 sacks.  While Nolan was running things Haralson would get jerked on and off the field and was not getting consistent playing time until Singletary took over.  The question surrounding Haralson is what kind of development the 49ers will see in 2009.  Haralson is entering his 4th season and has shown continued improvement each year as a pass rusher.  If he continues to improve the 49ers will move towards a more consistent overall pass rush.  Part of that of course depends on the development of....
 
Manny Lawson.  I would not categorize Manny Lawson as a bust or even a disappointment at this point.  Drafted the same year as Haralson, only as a first round pick, Lawson has had a rather tumultuous first three seasons.  He had a decent enough first year before getting knocked out for the season with a nasty knee injury in practice after week 2 of the 2007 campaign.  He was back last season but lacked some of the burst and athleticism fans were expecting.  And of course there was Mike Nolan's ridiculous use of the Big Sub defense that sometimes involved Manny Lawson spending most of a game on special teams.  Up to this point Lawson has shown he can handle the coverage duties of a linebacker, usually ending up covering the opposing tight end.  He has not been given nearly as much responsibility in the pass rush game.  Mike Singletary has said that will change this season and Lawson get his chance to rush the passer.  The ball is officially in Lawson's court to make something happen.  I think no matter what Lawson's numbers will go up simply because of increased opportunities.  The question is whether he will become the second pass rusher the 49ers need.
 
The 49ers depth at outside linebacker is a mix of production and potential.  The three primary backups competing for roster spots are Marques Harris, Ahmad Brooks and Jay Moore.  Harris played in San Diego under then linebackers coach Greg Manusky (now 49ers DC).  He's a pass rush specialist who will get a long look given the fact that Manusky was comfortable bringing him up here.  Brooks is a guy most agree is immensely talented, but also a head case of sorts.  He can play some as an ILB, but will get his chance at legit playing time as an OLB.  Moore is a guy the 49ers drafted in 2006 as a defensive end out of Nebraska that they intended to convert to a pass rushing OLB.  Unfortunately he's gotten hurt in the preseason each of the last two seasons and spent the seasons on injured reserve.  I have an affinity for Moore that really has no basis in reality, so I'm rooting for him.  Due to practice squad eligibility, I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up there.
 

As I mentioned initially, the 49ers could run the spectrum of production this season at outside linebacker.  They've had production from Haralson, but how this unit grades out at the end of the season will depend a lot on what Manny Lawson brings to the table in the pass rush.  Accordingly, I'm splitting the difference for now and giving the unit a C, but expecting so much more.

Arizona Cardinals
Blogger: cgolden

Much like the Niners, the Arizona Cardinals boast above average starters at inside linebackers and meagerly mention their outside linebackers. The Cardinals OLB's certainly have experience on their side but that also means that the clock is ticking against these 30-something's.

The projected starters are 33 year old Chike Okeafor and 32 year Clark Haggans. Together they've appeared in 255 games in this league and recorded 82 sacks but Okeafor spent the entire 2007 season on the IR and Haggans finished the 2007 season on the IR. In the 2008 season the two combined for a grand total of 5.5 sacks which is not exactly what you're looking for in a pair of OLB's in a 3-4. The Cardinals hope is that a return to the aggressive, attacking style particularly with Okeafor will result in an uptick in his sack totals. If both Okeafor and Haggans can stay healthy, the hope is that they can approach 15 sacks combined with guys like Darnell Docket, Karlos Dansby, Adrian Wilson and the backups (conveniently listed below) picking up the slack.

The primary backup should be second round pick Cody Brown, formerly of the University of Connecticut. Few question Brown's ability to rush the passer, but it's pretty universally accepted that it takes a full year to grasp the responsibilities of the position as a whole. That should leave Brown in the same boat as veteran pass rusher Bertrand Berry. Both excel at rushing the passer but would appear to have a hard time playing a complete OLB this season. The result, at least right now, appears to be two players who are basically situational pass rushers, but in that role could rack up between four and six sacks. Further down the depth chart is sixth round selection Will Davis who has proven to be quite an interesting prospect. A former wide receiver turned defensive end turned defensive tackle (after injuries by others at Illinois), Davis has the physical ability to play almost anywhere on the field but he's raw and would most likely need a solid camp to make the roster.

Sadly that's the entirety of the depth at outside linebacker, Three veterans trying avoid the 'washed up' label and two rookies hoping that potential isn't the only thing in their bag of tricks.  Maybe the Cardinals strike gold and their veterans stay healthy while Brown and Davis come along slowly or maybe the kids get thrust into the fire before they are ready. I could easily see the Cardinals out performing this grade by a mile but realistically, I can't go much higher than D.

0 recs  |  Comment 36 comments |

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Good writeup John, and I agree.

Watching these guys is going to be fun this year.

You know, I lost my father. Ah, he'll turn up. Have you checked the dumpster out back? He used to like to take a nap in there."
-George Carlin

by Wayward Llama on Jul 31, 2009 10:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I expected a clever caption.

But Leroy’s beard was intriguing enough.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jul 31, 2009 10:55 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's not start that whole thing again,

The Rock v. Dwayne Johnson

I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.

by Dukeshire on Jul 31, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eminem vs. Marshall Mathers vs. Slim Shady, if you will.

…Okay, back on topic. Who expects Parys Haralson’s sacks to go down this season?

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jul 31, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Down?

It’s well possible this is his ceiling and he’ll fluctuate at near-10 sacks for his entire career, but that would hardly be a terrible thing. Or maybe he grows and becomes even better, as the Niners hope.

But down? You mean, like, significantly down, not 6-7 sacks which would just be normal fluctuation, but 2-3 sacks down?

I’m more curious about Lawson anyway. I don’t expect a lot, but then again you can’t really say the kid got his shot. I honestly kind of expect Harris to push him out of the starting lineup, unless he really shows something.

by Vasilii on Jul 31, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was a hilarious day.

Was that guy kidding or no?

by LantermanC on Jul 31, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, I promise I'm not trying to troll

I think your grade and assessment for the OLB’s was more than fair, but i do have to say something about a pet peeve of mine. That is the whole “once in a generation talent” thing is thrown around WAY too much. For example, in just the last 5 years in baseball I’ve heard it applied to pitchers Felix Hernandez, Joba Chamberlain, David Price, Clayton Kershaw, and Stephen Strasburg. And the same thing applies to running backs in football where Reggie Bush, Adrian Peterson, and Darren McFadden have all gotten the same label in recent years. It seems like “once in a generation talent” now means “the most talented player this year”.

A generation is 15-20 years or so right? If so, are you seriously saying that Curry is a better talent than Ray Lewis, Demarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman, Lance Briggs, Terrell Suggs, Patrick Willis, Brian Urlacher, Jonathan Vilma, Joey Porter, and everyone else in the last couple decades? I know most of those guys play different linebacking positions and I think Curry’s a fantastic prospect but that just seems to be overstating his abilities.

Just my opinion.

by Brendan Scolari on Jul 31, 2009 12:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

I can’t speak for JM or everyone else here (and obviously most of us are drooling over Curry’s potential) but I’ve seen that phrase used on this site in a way that’s generally mocking its overuse among commentators.

by thebyron on Jul 31, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of colloquialisms

You just hit the nail on the head

by Airborne Hawk Guy on Jul 31, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course he did,

he’s got all the talent in the world.

I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.

by Dukeshire on Jul 31, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

When in Rome....

I love scotch

I think I just pooped your pants...

by FizzleDrip on Jul 31, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Felix Hernandez IS a once in a generation talent!

Maybe not…

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jul 31, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's pretty damn good

But I think there are other pitchers with his talent level as well.

by Brendan Scolari on Jul 31, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You realize...

the dude is still only the age of most rookies coming into the league?!?

He’s 50-40, with a career 3.61 ERA with 732 K’s in 831 innings, for a shitty team that has been well below .500 since he’s been in the league.

Oh, and the kicker, those were his age 19-23 seasons.

The last guy to start as well as young as him was Dwight Gooden.

Felix is a once in a generation talent and that is not up for debate.

Please, for the LOVE OF GOD, stop suggesting next year's 1st round pick (or picks) be used for Taylor Mays and or a QB of the future. Let's just let the season unfold, people, and evaluate much deeper in the process!!!

by whiskey chainsaw on Jul 31, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Felix is great, no doubt

I was just kidding though about the once in a generation thing.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jul 31, 2009 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair point.

To contrast it, though, no QB was described in that way, this year. Nor have all the stellar tackles. Cuz they’ve been coming in droves. Once in a generation might not be accurate, anymore, but generations in terms of football careers, we’re talking 5-8 years, rather than 15-20.

Honestly I gloss over it without it registering that way. It’s a description of a talent that really stands out over the rest in a substantial way, and not just for one year, but for several years. The list you mentioned includes 3-4 OLBs, ILBs and MLBs. Briggs is the only SLB listed there, and it is a very apt comparison, I thought so when JM used Briggs in the article. You can’t get much better than Briggs. He’s a 7-year vet. Since him, there’s been mixed result top talents for a year like AJ Hawk, Derrick Johnson, DJ Williams is pretty good I guess. Before Briggs, no one could compare with Derrick Brooks, he’s HOF material. It might be a bit of a stretch, but he arguably is once-in-a-football-generation talent at the position. Derrick Johnson had tons of talent, too, and is kind of a disappointment, so we’ll see.

by jacobstevens on Jul 31, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's because so many marginal guys wash out of the league early

For a talented player it’s probably around 8-10 years or so.

by Brendan Scolari on Jul 31, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Just saying that we were referring to players talented enough to stay in the league for a while.

by Brendan Scolari on Jul 31, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just thinking the same thing thing the other day.

I can see it being a once in a generation talent as in every 15-20 years do you find a LB with that much size and speed (like Urlacher), or once every 15-20 years do you find a pitcher with that good of a fastball and secondary pitches (or just plain command and deception) etc. I mean, Jamie Moyer is a once in a generation talent (same goes for Ichiro). Does it mean he’s the best pitcher of the last 20 years? Not even close.
Curry might be a possibility simply because how often is a LB good enough that he is picked in the top 5? Almost never, so it’s ok (I think) to say that only once every 20 or so years is a LB out of college so impressive that he is a consensus top 5 pick.

by LantermanC on Jul 31, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, could you explain?

I don’t really see how that applies to what you said?

by Brendan Scolari on Jul 31, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

First I say

The easy answer is “A”. A sub-Pro Bowl starter in his prime, Leroy Hill, and a once in a generation talent at linebacker, Aaron Curry – that’s got to be an “A”.

and then I spend two paragraphs poking holes through those arguments. So, obviously, I don’t think Seattle’s outside linebackers are an “A”, because both have weaknesses and both have much of their value locked up in potential.

by John Morgan on Jul 31, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here you are good sir, a treatise on the term "tongue in cheek":

Tongue-in-cheek is a term used to refer to humor in which a statement, or an entire fictional work, is not meant to be taken seriously, but its sarcasm is subtle. The origin of its usage comes from when Spanish minstrels would perform for various dukes in the 18th century; these dukes would silently chastise the silliness of the minstrel’s performances by placing their tongue firmly to the side of their cheek. The Oxford English Dictionary defines it as “Ironic, slyly humorous; not meant to be taken seriously”.

by Airborne Hawk Guy on Jul 31, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I realize what "tongue in cheeck" means

I just wasn’t sure which part John was talking about.

by Brendan Scolari on Jul 31, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did, but didn't

I love a good history of phrases. Stop cold turkey has a good one too!

by StonerHawk on Jul 31, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the whole nine yards

I think I just pooped your pants...

by FizzleDrip on Jul 31, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

I think they could all end up being a grade higher.

by Brendan Scolari on Jul 31, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you're saying the 49ers grade isn't a grade higher?

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer

by Misfit74 on Aug 1, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Curry had a pretty amazing junior year too

when he returned three interceptions for TDs tying a record for college LBs. And I still believe he was a major reason why Wake Forest won more games during his four years there than at any other time in their history. Curry showed steady improvement every year in college. His senior year wasn’t that much better than his junior year, but he got more accolades for his senior year. Curry is definitely all potential and hype right now, even though I firmly believe he’ll live up to it. I think he’ll continue right along getting better every year like he’s always done.

First year Curry will spend getting up to NFL speed. Then after that he’ll just work on getting better and better and succeed.

Good analysis for Hill. I still think he was underutilized as blitzer with the additiohn of Peterson. It’s obvious that Peterson took Hill’s sacks and Hill was used more in coverage. I guess if I were a DC and had a pass rushing beast like Peterson, I’d use him on the blitz alot too. Though I imagine I would have used both Hill and Peterson more. I like being able to attack from various places rather than letting a team focus on Peterson.

I’m sure this year Hill’s sack numbers will rise unless Curry turns out to be a beast of a pass rusher that is practically unblockable. That wouldn’t surprise me at all.

by ASeahawkfan on Aug 1, 2009 12:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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