Greg Knapp and the Seahawks New Offensive System

by John Morgan on Aug 14, 2009 9:49 PM PDT

Greg Knapp is a respected offensive coordinator in the NFL. His former team's fans harbor other opinions. His Atlanta Falcons were never better than mediocre and his Oakland Raiders couldn't even manage those heights. He hasn't coached a good offense since his first season as an NFL offensive coordinator. His 2001 Niners were third ranked scoring points and third ranked producing yards. The team fell to 13^th scoring points the following season and 9^th Knapp's final season. That season he was retained by new coach Dennis Erickson. The 49ers were 30^th, 30^nd, 24^th, 32^th and 22^th the following five seasons.

It says something that Knapp's offenses have been so bad, but that he's always landed on his feet. His only good offense was had in a transition year after taking over for Marty Mornhinweg. Mornhinweg foundered as a head coach in Detroit and then joined the Eagles. There he has orchestrated three top ten offenses. Coaches see a Knapp that's survived with unworkable quarterbacks. Fans see a Knapp that has never constructed an offense that works.

It's exceedingly hard to determine the value of an offensive coordinator. So don't expect to me shine lights if things go right or cast stones if the offense sucks. Throughout the preseason I will describe the composition, pattern and evident decision-making in Grag Knapp's offense. That starts tomorrow. I'm ratcheting up my tape breakdowns this season, and my first goal is to get everyone primed on our new offensive coordinator before the season starts.

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I do admit...

this hire worries more than any of the other changes, even all of the others combined.

I think our defense will be bullets, but what if he is the John Marshall of O coordinators?!?

I can only hope the youthful energy and passion of the rest of the staff around him opens him up to be a tad more creative than his reputation. We don’t have a “ram it down their throats” kind of a running game, but we do have some talented guys… I do hope he explores maximizing their potentials.

Please, for the LOVE OF GOD, stop suggesting next year's 1st round pick (or picks) be used for Taylor Mays and or a QB of the future. Let's just let the season unfold, people, and evaluate much deeper in the process!!!

by Tyler Jorgensen on Aug 14, 2009 6:15 PM PDT reply actions

Down here its always a crap shoot if the game will be on or not

The genius[moron?] TV execs have decided that Oregon is populated by Bay area fans which is odd because I know lots of Hawk fans and I personally dont know any 49er fans and only one Raider fan who is from Alabama.

by southern oregon on Aug 14, 2009 6:29 PM PDT reply actions

It's TV market regions

Southern Oregon is just about guaranteed to get Bay Area games all the time.

If this were Portland, things would be different.

"And Joe for Matt Hughes, dislike may not be a strong enough adjective!" - Mike Goldberg

by SSreporters on Aug 14, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Portland doesn't always show them either.

last year the Arizona game (if I’m remembering correctly) to end the season was not shown locally.

I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.

by Dukeshire on Aug 14, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions

It was not.

I was livid.

by John Morgan on Aug 14, 2009 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions

could be worse

Harrington’s rookie year, Portland was subjected to pretty much every Lions game.

Definitely a frontrunner city. But that’s to be expected when there’s only one local pro team. I was actually surprised by the vocal Seattle haterade while I was there. The anti-UW, anti-Sonics, and the cities’ general rivalry just bled through, I guess.

In my experience for every person you met that had adopted the ‘Hawks or M’s because they were geographically closest, you were just as likely to find a local that rooted against them only because they were Seattle teams..

"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg

by jteckmann on Aug 14, 2009 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions

I have lots of family in Seattle

I have been a Blazer and Hawks fan since I moved here 30 years ago,always liked the Sonics in a division rival sort of way.the haterade around here is for Bennet and Schultz.

by southern oregon on Aug 14, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Direct Tv sunday ticket is the shizzle.

I am down here in the glorious DFW and enjoy my hawks even in the shadow of Jerry.

"Superhero like even"

by censor1979 on Aug 15, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions

We are doomed,we know it

Its not a new development I just wanted to snivel about it

by southern oregon on Aug 14, 2009 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions

The fanbase only changed when Seattle started getting good.

My mom lives down there and it was always thick with Niners fans. Lots of frontrunners and transplants.

It's Great to be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on Aug 14, 2009 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions

Same here in Hawaii

Fortunately, they are airing tomorrow’s game. Whoo hoo!

Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.

by Carl Shinyama on Aug 14, 2009 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions

"never better than mediocre"

Not a great endorsement of Knapp’s offenses, but I’m looking forward to the changes anyway. Looking forward to JM’s analysis as well.

Perhaps Knapp’s offenses were ‘mediocre’ in Atlanta, but the Falcons only scored 299 points in Wade Phillips final year, and improved to 340 in Mora and Knapp’s first year. So that’s something to be hopeful about. Seahawks only scored 294 in 2008.. so ANY decently-coached system featuring healthy players ought to best that, right?

by Stevo's on Aug 14, 2009 7:03 PM PDT reply actions

Hate to burst your writing bubble, John

but I believe you read off the wrong number column. It looks like on the profootballreference you’re using the point differential column, which takes in account the defense points against.

In 2001 the Niners offense was 3rd in points and 4th in yards. 13th the following season and 9th in the final year for points. And then 30, 30, 24, 32, 22 over the next five.

So that bumps Knapp up a little bit. Unfortunately though, since Mora was the DC, it thus him down a little. heh.

by B.B.Finnegan on Aug 14, 2009 9:09 PM PDT reply actions

You are correct and thanks for the correction.

by John Morgan on Aug 14, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Some things I noticed about Knapp's offense

1. Points scored is usually lower than yards gained. He doesn’t seem to create high scoring offenses, but are still very adequate.

2. His TOP was top ten every year in San Francisco on every offense and usually over 31 minutes.

3. His offenses usually involve a strong run game as has already been noted.

Now this might be bad if were expected to win with our offense. But the way the team is being built, Knapp’s offense is pretty much what we need. It’s a very Steeler like offense. But the question then becomes can Mora and his defensive staff build a Steeler like defense?

If you’re going to have a ball control offense that keeps it on the ground and grinds out minutes, you need a defense that will hold leads and get the ball back quickly so you can keep grinding the other team down.

Knapp is pretty far from a traditional WCO coordinator. He doesn’t like to air it out and operates far more like ball control/run game OC. Maybe that is why Mora wanted him in Seattle because his plan is strong defense and ball control offense.

Now not sure how well that will work right now. I’m also hoping Knapp changes it up somewhat given that he has a Mercedes passing unit and a Ford Taurus running game at best. So if Knapp is smart and not overly conservative, he can open up the passing game and get better results that if he sticks with the run as much as he usually does.

But I do like the fact that Knapp does run a ball control offense. After watching our defense get gassed in 2006 and 2008 as well as a few times in 2007, it will be nice to now that we will probably give them plenty of rest this year. We need our defense to prove they are for real because Knapp is not an OC known for orchestrating high powered offenses that dominate games like Holmgren. He’s a conservative ball control OC and that can work very well if our defense plays as well as they should given all the time and money spent on that side of the ball.

by ASeahawkfan on Aug 14, 2009 11:53 PM PDT reply actions

"can Mora and his defensive staff build a Steeler like defense?"

Hmmm not sure how many of us yet feel ok about purposefully trying to resemble the Steelers… But well said, time of possession killed us last year on both sides of the ball and it would be nice (and more than possible) to reverse that in 09.

Glenn Beck likes argument, but has a deap-seated hatred for logic.

by Cheddar28 on Aug 15, 2009 2:36 AM PDT up reply actions

The only resemblance is a focus

on defense with a ball control offense.

I’m just going by where we’re spending our money and the type of coaching staff we’re assembling. You could also say we’re resembling Tampa Bay, Tennessee, and Baltimore in that regard. Just the Steelers are the most well known team in recent years that really focuses on ball control and defense.

I like the idea of it. Those types of teams are usually perennial contenders. Even the Patriots like to use ball control and defense as do the Giants. During the regular season the high speed passing games are great and win you tons of games. During the playoffs defense and ball control win you games and ultimately Super Bowls. At least that is what I’ve noticed over the years barring a few exceptions.

by ASeahawkfan on Aug 15, 2009 3:06 AM PDT up reply actions

After watching our defense get gassed...

Agreed. As much as I enjoyed Holmy’s offense, the goal of scoring quickly has a huge drawback. A big reason most teams won’t use no-huddle early in games. This is why Ruskell paid TJ Duckett the big bucks. When it comes to bulling for a yard and extending a drive, Duckett is special, and those plays are underrated IMO. Long grinding drives can be nerve-wracking to watch when 3rd-and-short keeps coming up again, but those drives wear down opposing defenses and win games. I hope our O linemen are up to the task. I know Duckett is.

by Stevo's on Aug 15, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Watching opponents go on 10-12 minute drives

and then score a TD is an absolute killer and frustrating as hell. Couple a quick scoring offense with a bend and don’t break defense and, well, you get the Seahawks.

by B.B.Finnegan on Aug 15, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions

or an offense that goes inc pass, inc pass, draw play, punt

heh, or the opposing stereotype of a Knapp offense.

by B.B.Finnegan on Aug 15, 2009 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions

To be fair...

In ’05, the Seahawks had one of the best ball-control offenses in the league, mostly because they also led the league in drives of 80+ yards.

Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.

by Carl Shinyama on Aug 15, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions

And the running game was one of the best

in NFL history that season. They converted all short yardage plays, average over 5 yards, and had record setting touchdown production. That run game in 2005 was unstoppable.

by ASeahawkfan on Aug 15, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions

I would not say one of the best in NFL history.

One of the best that year, but not historically one of the best. They were stuffed on a lot of plays that year, finishing ranked 25th in the league with 21% of their runs being stuffed, despite the fact that their success in the power game was the best in the NFL, and they had the 2nd highest rate of runs for more than 10+ yards.

I don’t think a Holmgren offense should be known for trying to score quickly, because Holmgren valued ball-control too. I think people confuse his pass-to-set up the run philosophy for trying to score quickly.

Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.

by Carl Shinyama on Aug 16, 2009 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions

You take a stat like stuffed runs and somehow

extrapolate that to mean it wasn’t one of the best in NFL history? Kind of a myopic view.

by ASeahawkfan on Aug 16, 2009 2:56 AM PDT up reply actions

Myopic? Hardly.

Besides, what is your basis for calling the Seahawks’ running game that year historically one of the best?

I’m sorry, but you cannot deny that to be one of the best O-lines in history, it doesn’t help the Seahawks’ case when they got stuffed at a higher rate to the point where their ranking was in the bottom quarter of the league. It’s a drip, drip, gush effect that shows that the consistency in the running game is not as high as one would think.

There are other numbers that I could use. Because it’s around 1:30 am, I’ll just use DVOA. Since 2000, there were 17 rushing offenses that had a higher DVOA than the Seahawks had in 2005 (DVOA: 20.3%). When you start looking at it in that context, you see how diluted the quality of elite running games are, and that it is a serious stretch to consider the Seahawks’ 2005 running game to be HISTORICALLY one of the best rushing games ever.

- Denver 2008, 23.9%
- New York Giants 2008, 20.7%
- Philadelphia 2007, 20.7%
- New England 2007, 20.4%
- San Diego 2006, 27.5%
- Philadelphia 2006, 24.0%
- Jacksonville, 20.8%
- Kansas City 2004, 26.6%
- Kansas City 2003, 28.6%
- San Diego 2003, 25.2%
- Philadelphia 2003, 24.4%
- Kansas City 2002, 32.0%
- Denver 2002, 24.5%
- San Francisco 2002, 24.4%
- Oakland 2002, 23.6%
- Minnesota 2002, 23.2%
- St. Louis 2000, 34.4%
- Pittsburgh 2000, 24.4%
- Minnesota 2000, 20.8%

Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.

by Carl Shinyama on Aug 16, 2009 4:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Now that I look at it

I guess I should limit my statement to Shaun Alexander had one of the top NFL rushing performances in NFL history. That is probably more accurate. He was a one man TD machine behind a very dominant O-line.

by ASeahawkfan on Aug 16, 2009 6:11 AM PDT up reply actions