Quadriceps Tear Expected to Sideline Chris Spencer Four to Six Weeks
Chris Spencer suffers undue scorn. A former first round pick, that replaced a fan favorite and never a favorite of Mike Holmgren, Spencer has played his worst football in his press clippings. Whatever his long-term potential, his latest injury, a grade two tear of his quadriceps, is the beginning of the end of his career in Seattle.
The team anticipated replacing Spencer and drafted Max Unger. Unger doesn't have the pure power of Spencer, but he moves a little better, is more technically sound, and most essential to this discussion, is not a free agent after this season. Unger will be in Blue and making less than a million per season for the next four years. If Seattle was investing in talent, it could justify re-signing Spencer. But with his injury history and the team already having replaced him, his destination is somewhere else, still looking to unlock his talent and paid too much.
The remaining question isn't about Spencer's long-term future, but his short-term future with the team. Seattle would be daft not to slot Unger in at first team center. I expect a production, deference to Steve Vallos' service, high-sounding speech about Unger earning it, but Unger is a center. He's a pro ready center and could be better than Spencer this season. If he is, and the unit begins to gel with him in the middle, can Seattle justify shaking its line up when Spencer recovers?
Anyone who calls Chris Spencer "soft" will be banned. It's juvenile to question another man's toughness.
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122 comments
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Comments
Chris Gray was a fan favorite?
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 24, 2009 10:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm dumb
Apparently, Gray was mostly RG after 2001.
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 24, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a freak injury
I feel for the big man.
by m_b on Aug 24, 2009 10:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The look on his face is worth a thousand words.
I dare you to call that man “soft” to his face.
Child please...
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 24, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not for a million dollars.
Even with the torn quad he’d probably be able to chase me down.
by thebyron on Aug 24, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Severity of a Pulled Hamstring:
Strains are graded 1, 2 or 3 depending on severity. Grade 1 consists of minor tears within the muscle. A grade 2 is a partial tear in the muscle and grade 3 is a severe or complete rupture of the muscle.
Child please...
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 24, 2009 10:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but even a grade 1 can linger for months and retear easily.
Sucks for Spencer, hopefully he can recover quick.
by LantermanC on Aug 24, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a strained Quad which is in the front of the leg.... hamstring is in the back.
There is obviously a huge variance of Grade 2 Quad strains… especially on a man that size. There are also 4 different muscles that make up the Quad (shocking right). Typical muscle strains heal stronger than the previously uninjured tissue (scar tissue). “tighter” isn’t always better obviously and the imbalance in the muscle as a whole can lead to future injuries in the muscle or muscles surrounding the injury site.
Saying he has a grade 2 tear in his Quad is like saying you have “some” money in your bank account. It’s not zero and it’s not all the money in the world…. but somewhere in the middle.
Here is to hoping the tear is on the small side and he really is back in 4 weeks.
I saw a Kelly Jennings INT.......really....
by The Manchild on Aug 24, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good catch.
Child please...
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 24, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who calls Chris Spencer "soft" will be banned. It's juvenile to question another man's toughness.
BACKED.
It was a bad week for our offensive line.
by cro-mag! on Aug 24, 2009 11:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's also ignorant.
This is one area in which “you’ve never played the game” has a real point.
by The Ancient Mariner on Aug 24, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the trouble with starting Unger at C...
…is that you render Vallos useless, right? He can’t play guard, but Unger can.
Longer term, I would expect a Sims, Unger, Wrotto, left to right, interior line would be better than a Sims, Vallos, Unger interior line, but right away?
Solari knows these guys by now. He’ll pick the best combo he sees.
by Hawkdawg on Aug 24, 2009 11:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Vallos isn't useless (any more than he already is useless)
He is Seattle’s backup center.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vallos played tackle in college
His Seahawks Bio calls him a guard/center.
I don’t know how many (if any) snaps hes taken at guard, but I imagine he could do it. Heck, its probably a bigger jump to go from tackle to (starting) center than to go from center to (right) guard.
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 24, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He couldn't play tackle
and guard would be dicey.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why I don't understand the point
If he’s a “back-up center”, but you don’t play him when your center goes down, and he can’t play tackle and is dicey at guard, I’m not sure what he’s on the team for.
Back-up emergency center, maybe? At his price, maybe that makes sense right now…
by Hawkdawg on Aug 24, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because would you rather have Unger and Wrotto?
Or Vallos and Unger/Wrotto, with the odd man out on the bench?
It makes more sense to start the best players.
by LantermanC on Aug 24, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's super cheap
and has experience at center. With Spencer hurt, that makes Vallos likely a roster lock.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unger will likely start at center
If we are unsatisfied with Kyle Williams as a back-up OT then I’d look for us to sign a veteran in the next couple days. This would provide us the most flexibility with our present OL situation. Whoever it is would act as the back-up LT, RT, and RG since we could move Willis back inside if Wrotto gets injured. Vallos will act as back-up C and LG since we can move Unger over if Sims gets injured.
by Hawkhammer19 on Aug 24, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
While Vallos may not be a very good NFL tackle, he wasn't drafted to be a center
He didn’t play center in college, so I’d assume that he was drafted to play guard. Will he be good or even decent at NFL guard? Maybe no, but I’d have to assume that he’s got as much chance to be a decent guard than he had to be a decent center.
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 24, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just listening to the Jim Mora interview on KJR
Mora says “Now we have to figure out who’s playing right guard between Unger, Vallos and Wrotto”. (about 10:20 in)
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 24, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nevermind, wrong again
I must have misheard it. He says Vallos or Unger at center and Unger or Wrotto at RG.
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 24, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quadricep Tear Chris Spencer
Spencer is soft on leadership, which the OL lacks.
And he seemed to have difficulty adjusting to audibles.
Under gives you immediate potential for both.
by Bird Droppings on Aug 24, 2009 11:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Soft on leadership
I am sure you know this, being in the huddle.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way to be that guy.
Fail.
Child please...
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 24, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Aug 24, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey now...
at least he spelled Unger’s name wrong just to further alienate himself with his unjust opinion.
Please, for the LOVE OF GOD, stop suggesting next year's 1st round pick (or picks) be used for Taylor Mays and or a QB of the future. Let's just let the season unfold, people, and evaluate much deeper in the process!!!
by whiskey chainsaw on Aug 24, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kearney and Hasselback don't understand the problem here.
Child please...
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 24, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hasselback will have to ask his wife Elizabeth to explain it to him.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sarcasm/intentional misspelling/wrong brother reading off the map.
Brain overload.
by djafrot on Aug 24, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off the map?
But is it off the chart?
by thebyron on Aug 24, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kerney and Hasselbeck?
Spell your own star players names correctly PLEASE!
Andrew Raycroft for backup? Does not compute.
by Woodinville_12thMan on Aug 24, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad.
Didn’t read the above comment. Still, that is a problem on Field Gulls that I hope will be fixed.
Andrew Raycroft for backup? Does not compute.
by Woodinville_12thMan on Aug 24, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mis-spelled Dumervil earlier
but gives a shit about him, right?
by Jo-Jo on Aug 24, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of things.
I’m not going into whether or not Spencer is tough or “soft” as was mentioned above. What I will say is that Spencer has all the talent in the world, but has had some duribility issues since the day he first walked onto a football field with the Seahawks. With that said it seems time to move on.
The team needs to keep Sims at the end of the year and let Spencer go, plain and simple. They drafted Unger to play Center, not guard, so put him there the rest of the preseason and leave him there even when Spencer is healthy. If they want to get Spencer in after he comes back, have him challenge Wrotto for RG. That would leave a line of Lock, Sims, Unger, Wrotto (or Spencer) , Willis, then when Walt comes back, Jones, Sims, Unger, Lock, Willis. Then Spencer, Vallos and Wrotto would all then add depth. Then next year draft a OT, and pick up a guard in FA for more depth.
Time to move on and the time seems like now.
by JustinWF on Aug 24, 2009 11:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No.
No no no no no.
Every football player deals with injuries because it’s the nature of the sport. Spencer started 45 of 46 possible games before getting IR’d last season after all hope of contention was lost. Saying that Spencer has always had durability issues is an over-the-top reaction that has no basis in reality.
by BrianL on Aug 24, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
what’s more, I love this line in the article: “Spencer has played his worst football in his press clippings..” The guy still has some excellent football in front of him, and will continue to get better. We’ve had incredibly high expectations for him from day one, and while he hasn’t lived up to them, he has proven more than serviceable and with untapped potential that could be eventually reached.
I would love to see him reach that potential wearing some neon green on his jersey.
Please, for the LOVE OF GOD, stop suggesting next year's 1st round pick (or picks) be used for Taylor Mays and or a QB of the future. Let's just let the season unfold, people, and evaluate much deeper in the process!!!
by whiskey chainsaw on Aug 24, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As would I
But it’s hard to justify re-signing him to a free agent contract with Unger on board. Spencer has been very cheap so far. It’s unlikely he will command less than three million a season in the open market.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will the potential uncapped year...
have any bearing what-so-ever on the probability of his resigning or leaving?
Please, for the LOVE OF GOD, stop suggesting next year's 1st round pick (or picks) be used for Taylor Mays and or a QB of the future. Let's just let the season unfold, people, and evaluate much deeper in the process!!!
by whiskey chainsaw on Aug 24, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know enough about how that will shake out to answer.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe there are some strange rules regarding just how much you can restructure contracts in an uncapped year.
I can’t even begin to think of the rules that might surround a new contract in an uncapped year. Hopefully Sando or AskTheCommish can give us a better idea at some point (if it happens).
by BrianL on Aug 24, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bulk of my understanding...
I sadly have to admit has come from portions of semi-useful information interspersed between Mike Vick commentary, extensive Brett Favre meanderings and issues with Westin Hotels and coffee.
Please, for the LOVE OF GOD, stop suggesting next year's 1st round pick (or picks) be used for Taylor Mays and or a QB of the future. Let's just let the season unfold, people, and evaluate much deeper in the process!!!
by whiskey chainsaw on Aug 24, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've read about it
but I am taking a wait and see position. This far out, opinions tend towards “what if” scenarios better left for message boards.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What bothers me about the uncapped year
Is what if the year after it becomes a capped year?
by B.B.Finnegan on Aug 24, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hu?
I said durability issues, not missed games issues. But since you say 45 of 46 is that so. Since being drafted as a “1st ROUND PICK” he has played in 50 games and started 40. Since 2006 he has started 13 in 06, 16 in 07, and 11 (IR are still games missed) in 08, so I’m not sure where you got 45 of 46. Chris has had some injuries (is that not the truth?), and he has had to have major surgeries on both his shoulders, to me that is the makings of a problem (just ask Mike Wahle), and now you can add in a major injury to his quad.
Durability, that is what I’m saying, and missing practice is just as important as games, and it has shown in the way Chris calls games as well. Injuries mess up all parts of players games and there are very few Centers that can miss time and still play at a pro-bowl level and Chris is not a pro-bowler.
by JustinWF on Aug 24, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 45 includes playoff games.
He didn’t start right away because he was a rookie and no position was open. He may not have been healthy, but he has been a consistent starter.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And?
He could have started (he was a first round pick), but he wasn’t as good as Tobeck, and he still is not. As far as the number 45 goes, oh nevermind, I really could care less. He has played ok when he has been in there, but he has had some major injuries (both shoulders), and as far as being consistent, great I can point out 100’s of other guys who are consistent over a two year peroid (which he hasn’t been over the last two years, just two years ago). I want a guy who doesn’t miss practice, and can go two years without being on the operating table, Spencer has not.
by JustinWF on Aug 24, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't think there was anything Spencer could of done to win the job over Tobek.
Actually Tobeck did come back and the end of the 2006 season and the team stuck with Spencer at center.
by MFAN on Aug 24, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could have.
The best players play, Spencer was not the best player so he sat. As far as when Tobeck came back, I would guess he knew he was done (as did the coaches) so there was no reason to put him back out. Also I really don’t remember Tobeck ever being 100% that season.
by JustinWF on Aug 24, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"The best players play"
I don’t think that’s always true. Coaches put stock into veteran experience, Holmgren loved Tobeck and there was no way Spencer was going to start over him.
by MFAN on Aug 24, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
Mike did love his guys, so very good point. In the end if your a smart coach, you let the best players play, and if Chris was the best player, he should have played, but a very good point about Mike.
by JustinWF on Aug 24, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would a rookie Spencer start over an established veteran like Tobeck?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Aug 24, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This comment is a complete contradiction of itself
by Jo-Jo on Aug 24, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it does.
What I mean was there was really no way Holmgren was going to give Spencer the job after training camp or pre-season, but once Spencer played in the regular season and played well they kept him at center, even when Tobeck was cleared to play.
by MFAN on Aug 24, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess we should get rid of that Lofa Tatupu guy...
Also that weak-sauce Matt Hasselbeck, Rob Sims, Patrick Kearney, Deion Branch, Nate Burleson, etc. Stupid people who can’t practice and go two years without being on the operating table.
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Aug 24, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AH....
It’s so fun to argue over the internet. You don’t get my point. And did you use “weak-sauce”?
by JustinWF on Aug 24, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh no you didn't!

Child please...
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 24, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sriracha Hot Chili Sauce is the shit
by aerozeppelin on Aug 24, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Invented in the USA by an imigrant from Vietnam
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 24, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man I love that stuff.
Take a nice bowl of phở and add enough of the rooster that you’re sweating by the time you’re halfway done….
by thebyron on Aug 25, 2009 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arguing over the internet is terrific
When you write words like “I want a guy who doesn’t miss practice, and can go two years without being on the operating table, Spencer has not.” and then claim that people don’t get your point. Damn those words!
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Aug 24, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Using the phrase "weak sauce" is pretty weak sauce, isn't it?
In the future, I’ll use the better, more acceptable terms like “pansy” or “pussy”.
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Aug 24, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Mawae, Andre Gurode, Shaun O'hara, Jeff Saturday and Dan Koppen have all missed games in the last three seasons.
And that’s from only two years worth of Pro Bowls.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spencer is a three year starter
Not an aged vet. He’s breaking down and that’s the truth.
I started off with a great deal hope for this guy. He is a physical beast that can manhandle people off the line. Watched him do it in 2006 when he stepped in and thought he was a Pro Bowl center of the future.
But he suffered injuries each year he played missing practice and camp at a position that requires extra work in practice and camp because you are the center of a hub on the O-line that requires you to have an extra level of coordination wih the players around you.
You communicate with the QB to see if he missed anything. You communicate with each side of the line to make sure they are up to speed. You have alot to do and missing practice as a center, especially as much as Spencer has missed, early in your career slows your development.
If the mental part of the game weren’t the most important aspect of being a center, Toebeck probably would have been a backup and everyone would just find some huge beast to man the center of their line.
by ASeahawkfan on Aug 24, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah Tobeck was pretty cerebral
unlike this Spencer guy, who’s merely athletic.
by B.B.Finnegan on Aug 24, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
almost called you out on that
then i got the reference
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 24, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel froggy.
SPENCER IS NOT A PRO-BOWLER end of story. These are some of the guys that can get away with missing some practice, Spencer can’t he is not as good as these guys (yet). Feel free to point out these guys, it still doens’t prove Spencer is on their level, it just shows what Spencer has yet to prove in the league.
Once again I like Spencer, but he needs to be out there for all of the snaps this year, if not it is time to let Unger (or Vallos) go. If he could have gone this whole year and shown the “upside” we all have seen in spurts, then great sign him, I have yet to see it game after game.
by JustinWF on Aug 24, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To actually reference your main argument, it seems like you're jumping the gun about 8 months in advance
There are a few bits of data that are in the realm of the unknown at this point. What’s the extent of the tear? When will Spencer return? What will be his level of play when he returns? What’s Unger’s ability level and ability to succeed as an NFL center? What’s the amount of money Spencer will require in a contract?
Spencer is not a player that has proved himself someone that is worth a huge contract, and if he is not able to rehab and perform well for the rest of the season, then I doubt the Hawks would try and bring him back. However, I think we should let this play out a bit more.
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Aug 24, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
However, I would be fine with re-signing Spencer if his value was diminished due to his injury history.
And general inconsistency when he was healthy.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Aug 24, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As powerful an argument "end of story" is
Provide evidence or drop it. You said
Injuries mess up all parts of players games and there are very few Centers that can miss time and still play at a pro-bowl level and Chris is not a pro-bowler.
So I refuted it.
“Chris Spencer is not a Pro Bowler” is not an argument. It’s a straw man. You are fighting with yourself. No one has argued Chris Spencer is a pro bowler. In fact, I can’t tell what you are arguing.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Need I remind you
that Walter Jones has performed phenomenally (sp?) without much practice time on several occasions? I think to say that missing practice is as important as missing games is just plain untrue.
Glenn Beck likes argument, but has a deap-seated hatred for logic.
by Cheddar28 on Aug 24, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eeeeexcept when you're a new player
I take that back in this case.
Glenn Beck likes argument, but has a deap-seated hatred for logic.
by Cheddar28 on Aug 24, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PRACTICE ....
We’re talkin’ ’bout PRACTICE?. Not the game! Not the GAME! Practice … man!
by Jo-Jo on Aug 24, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spencer has had durability issues
He misses a ton of camp and offseason training and weekly practices at a position that requires as much work as possible to be good at. You are the center of the O-ilne. You make the calls and adjustments up and down that line. Missing practice on the field with your guys is bad for the team and shows badly to other O-line guys.
It’s like I understood why guys never say Walt is in charge of the line. Walt is a guy is at one end and cannot make line calls up and down the line. He does his job fine and tries to help Sims or something, but you want a guy that can help Matt see the field and do adjustments. But when you miss tons of practice and training camp, you don’t end up with too tight a relationship with the guys around you.
At least that is my opinion.
by ASeahawkfan on Aug 24, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great points.
These were some of the points I (tried) to make. Dead on.
by JustinWF on Aug 24, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to lose him...
I feel like it would be Kevin Mawae redux. We lose a guy at Center who eventually becomes a great player.
I want to see that potential realized… in a Seattle uniform, with Unger beside him at G.
Please, for the LOVE OF GOD, stop suggesting next year's 1st round pick (or picks) be used for Taylor Mays and or a QB of the future. Let's just let the season unfold, people, and evaluate much deeper in the process!!!
by whiskey chainsaw on Aug 24, 2009 11:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Problem with that is
Spencer hasn’t shown enough to make anyone believe he’ll become a great player. Who knows: maybe after this season the Hawks will be able to sign him on the cheap (or at least ‘on the affordable’) and continue with him at C and Unger at G.
But that simply seems doubtful, especially if Unger takes over and plays really well.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Aug 24, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spencer's looked great at times.
But at others, horrible.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Aug 24, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what you expect from a young center
Center, as a position, peaks late in its career. Look at the names on the Pro Bowl.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it peaks late...
then do we really want to start a rookie center? Or, put differently, Unger must be something if he could upgrade the line over a 4 year veteran with better physical tools.
by Hawkdawg on Aug 24, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but that could just be older 'veteran'
centers getting their due. If it’s presumed to be a cerebral position, the vote will be skewed more towards the older guys. Not that I don’ t agree that centers peak late, they sure seem to.
by LantermanC on Aug 24, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right that the Pro Bowl favors established players rather than actual play
but I do think centers peak late. It’s a position that favors raw power and knowledge over the things expected to erode with age: speed and athleticism.
I still think Spencer can be very good, but Seattle drafted Unger and unless Spencer really puts it together this season, should he even have the chance, I just can’t see Seattle investing so much in a filled position.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any chance that Seattle drafted Unger as a G or a C
depending on Spencer’s performance this year? Or are they pretty sure of his ability to play C at a high level.
by LantermanC on Aug 24, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Unger said "I am a center"
on whatever radio show, I think it confirmed he is a center and Seattle is comfortable with him playing center. I like Unger at guard, but, at the same time, Seattle can add another guard or hope one of Sims or Wrotto develops. At this point, Unger is the only thing between Seattle and Steve Vallos.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And to add to all of this
we have two 1st round draft picks next year. Either or both could be high. Or neither. We are projected to not have a terrible amount of cap room, and have Tapp, Sims and Redding to decide on, among others. It would seem hard to make room for keeping both.
by jacobstevens on Aug 24, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I definitally got the feeling once they drafted Unger
That they no longer had any intention of resigning Spencer. The plan seems to be to use Spencer for one more year while Unger gets adjusted to the NFL, then start Unger next year. Kind of like drafting Spencer when Tobeck hadn’t retired yet.
Looks like Unger may get thrown in there early now, but it seems like they want Vallos to do it. I’m not sure which is the better route, Vallos or the rookie.
by B.B.Finnegan on Aug 24, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does take a while to learn center
I told people to wait for Spencer to develop and he’d be awsome. Takes years to learn center.
But that’s if you’re in practice developing a relationship with your O-line and QB, earning their respect and trust, rather than rehabbing on the bench most of the week and coming in on Sunday underprepared.
I want that guy who can connect with our QB and the line and lead them. I have never heard once anyone talk that way about Spencer. And he’s been breaking down since he became a starter.
This injury was just a matter of time. We need to solidify the middle of our line with a guy who can be at practice and set the tone and example for the entire line if we want a top flight O-line going into the next decade.
I say start Unger now while he can work with Hasselbeck. Then when we get our next QB, Unger will be able to help him with line calls and protections to accelerate the learning process.
Sign Spencer as a backup for a year to see if he can get it together. But don’t rely on him as the starter. He’s too young to breaking down like he is and it will only get worse as he gets older, not better.
by ASeahawkfan on Aug 24, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
badit - badit - badit
damn record player
by Jo-Jo on Aug 24, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
John, you seem to be implying that neither projects to OG at their best?
Is this true? I personally think that Unger could make a very good RG in this scheme, although if Wrotto works out Unger could/would lack the power he has. But conversely, Unger lacks the power Spencer has and will have at C.
With the 49ers and Cardinals “fully” transitioned to the 3-4, expecting them to add a monster NT (if they get the chance) could put us at a disadvantage for several years if Unger becomes the starter and gets settled in at C.
We saw Spencer at LG, what were his limitations? Does his “power” not translate to OG?
In 3 years, what would your favorite potential distribution of current players be, ignoring LT? Sims, Unger, Wrotto, Willis? Spencer, Unger, Wrotto, Willis? Sims, Spencer, Unger, Willis?
by cashless on Aug 24, 2009 12:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hard to project in three years.
Unger will struggle one on one against good nose tackles, but doubling the nose/over/1-tech is a fundamental part of Knapp’s zone. I wasn’t sure if that would be true, but it looks true from what I’ve seen in the preseason.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm also curious how Spencer projects to OG
Even if Unger displaces him at C, there’s still possibly a place on the OL at Guard. Sims & Wrotto haven’t exactly set their names in stone at either position yet.
At any rate, I’m optimistic that this isn’t Spencer’s last season here. I can’t see him being THAT expensive in the offseason or cost prohibitive – especially with his injury history the past 2 seasons. And the team’s going to need the bodies. If you assume Jones will be gone, that shifts Lock & Willis to Tackles. And it leaves only Vallos as the lone interior OL back-up. Normally I’d say the team would just replenish that depth through cheap draft picks – but given our situation at OT, they’re probably going to have to spend a lot of resources there.
Bringing back Spencer may wind up being a necessity – to play Guard, and drop Sims or Wrotto back into a reserve role. And who knows, maybe that was in the team’s plans even when they did draft Unger.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
by jteckmann on Aug 24, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
N/S.
For all the love Tobeck gets, people seem to forget that the 2006 offensive line was awful until Sims and Spencer stepped in midway through the season and the two of them helped squeezed the last ounces of juice out of Shaun Alexander.
by MFAN on Aug 24, 2009 12:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Chris Gray sucked
Sims took over for him.
/hoping I’m right this time
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 24, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gray stayed at RG, Sims took over for Porkchop at LG.
by MFAN on Aug 24, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of these times I'm going to be right
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 24, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he did sit out the last game of the season
so you’re like 1/8th of the way right, or something
by B.B.Finnegan on Aug 24, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gray started every game up until his career-ending back injury in training camp before the 2008 season.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Aug 24, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
People forget that Tobeck was a mediocre center that joined a line with two potential Hall of Fame offensive linemen.
by John Morgan on Aug 24, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Revisionist history
Tobeck’s mental acuity was rivaled only by Professor X. Sure he wasn’t the strongest guy around but his telekinesis held the line together.
by Nate Dogg on Aug 24, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also had witty banter with Hasselbeck
So endearing!
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Aug 24, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
Tobeck was a decent enough starter and a personable guy fans could root for, but he wasn’t anything special. I will never forget Casey Hampton just clubbing him aside with minimal effort and sacking Hasselbeck after Locklear’s phantom hold in XL.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Aug 24, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tobek was also a great leader on the o-line unlike spencer
by dpghawk43 on Aug 24, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was an old white guy?
Like Russell!
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 25, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Spencer doesn't play much, or well, this season, will he really be expensive?
It doesn’t seem likely.
by djafrot on Aug 24, 2009 1:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He was a 1st round pick
and the Players’ Association guarantees we would have to pay him more than his first contract. Possibly more than he might command on the open market if injuries keep him from being a good free agent prospect. That doesn’t mean expensive, but we’re going ZBS, it allegedly favors skillsets that don’t command as much money, and we draft a lineman every year, so there’s at least as much to suggest we won’t re-sign him as there is to suggest we will.
by jacobstevens on Aug 24, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, I'm also a Mets fan...
So between yesterday’s rally-killing, game-ending unassisted triple play and today’s horrible news about Spencer I feel like I should be listening to Muddy Waters or John Lee Hooker.
If there is a bright side it’s that Tim Ruskell isn’t Omar Minaya, and had already begun succession planning with replacement-level or better backups.
I agree with John’s assessment. Unger could be the second coming of Kevin Mawae, just waiting for a chance to start. I like the idea of a right side that could include Wrotto and Ray Willis. If that’s the line that plays the majority of the snaps you just know at some point somebody is gonna get the snot knocked out of their nose.
Vallos is a high-quality 2nd or 3rd string center—more than serviceable in a pinch but not a guy who should be starting for a playoff contender unless he was surrounded by all-pros. He’s virtually a lock. I do wonder if other players like Kyle Williams and Nashon Goddard move up a notch or if Seattle looks outside.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Aug 24, 2009 2:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is the least surprising development of the preseason
Was anybody shocked at the sight of Spencer being carted ass-first into the locker room? More like: Oh shit…well, yeah.
by lemonverbena on Aug 24, 2009 2:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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