Five Plays with Edgerrin James
by John Morgan on Aug 25, 2009 11:23 AM PDT
60 comments
Seattle cut Justin Forsett September 9, 2008. He was signed by Indianapolis but later cut and re-signed by Seattle. Cutting Justin Forsett was a mistake. He was an average to above average punter returner. The best punt returner on the 2008 squad. Seattle is counting on him to return punts and kicks in 2009. It is also expecting him to contribute as a running back.
What is frustrating about the impending release of T.J. Duckett is not just the loss of Duckett, it is that the move validates my fear that Tim Ruskell is an impulsive often reactive general manager. The Seahawks signed Duckett to a five-year, $13 million contract. Much of the money was tied up in bonuses. As Mike Sando points out, cutting Duckett only saves Seattle $100,000 against the cap. Seattle did not add or, to my knowledge, even pursue another running back in the offseason. Duckett was in their plans. So what could have Duckett possibly done to warrant his release? He was Seattle's most productive rusher against Denver. It's a trace advantage. Duckett struggled as much as Justin Forsett and Devin Moore. All three struggled behind a line that couldn't execute or sustain its blocks.
But here we are. The Seattle Seahawks are yet another team that has flirted with Duckett but passed. The Seattle Seahawks are the next stop for potential Hall of Fame bound rusher Edgerrin James. How good is James? He was league average according to DVOA: 0.0%. That doesn't tell us much. James ran over Seattle for 100 yards in 14 carries. I planned on breaking down all fifteen touches, but within the first five a solid patter was formed. James is quick to the hole, quick through the hole, sets up his blockers and falls forward. He makes small cuts that are effective and undemanding of the offensive line. Like Duckett, his low yards per carry mask his effectiveness. His third gear is gone, but his first and second seem very intact. He gets through the hole and he gains positive yardage.
Apart from the poor planning and loss of Duckett without hardly a tryout, I am happy for the addition of James. He might be a better rusher than Julius Jones.
1. Arizona was down 7-0 after Duckett punched in a touchdown from the one.
Az: 2 WR(right), 2 TE (left), RB
Sea: 4-3
Outside tight end Ben Patrick motions right. Josh Wilson blitzes from the defensive right. Kurt Warner hands to James and James slices off tackle, rushing past Wilson and into the hole. Right guard Deuce Lutui pulls in front. James bursts into the second level and powers into first Deon Grant, then Julian Peterson and finally Wilson and Brian Russell.
2. Next play, now second and one.
Az: WR (left), TE (right), TE (left), I
Sea: 4-3
Reggie Wells pulls. James is quick to Warner and quicker through the hole. He slashes off left tackle and is met by Grant just short of the first down marker. Grant hits him low and with authority, but James bounces off and recovers to edge his way over the marker.
3. Next drive. Seattle still up by seven.
Az: 2WR (right), WR (left), TE (right), RB
Sea: 4-3 over
James is quick to the hole, quick through the hole and falls forward. Julian Peterson tackles, but as with most James runs, Peterson looks the bearer of the brunt.
One in pictorial form:
And the 35 yard rush. The longest rush James has had in nearly four and a half years.
Az: 2 WR (right), 2 TE (left), RB
Sea: 4-3
Outside tight end Ben Patrick motions right. This the exact same opening as James' first rush. This time, it's a stretch right. Ready for this? James is quick to the edge, very quick, he hits the edge and enters the second level untouched. Levi Brown blocks Darryl Tapp, but it's not Brown but Edge's quickness that frees him into the second level. From there, it's all downhill. He rushes straight and past several Seahawks. Finally, Grant collides with him, but James separates with a stiff arm and is able to drag Grant an additional seven yards. Tapp arrives from the line of scrimmage and finishes the tackle.
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"Quick to the hole"
Music to my ears. In this alone he is the anti-Duckett.
by Hawkdawg on Aug 25, 2009 11:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Amen
I agree with John that it was poor planning by Ruskell signing Duckett. He knew we were going to probably hire Knapp and move to a ZBS, but still decided to overlooked Duckett’s lack of a cut. Duckett and Jennings are examples of good Ruskell players who just didn’t fit the actual need of the team.
by Hawkhammer19 on Aug 25, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
I’m happy with the move – I can’t even put my finger on why, but I really feel better about having James there to push JJ… Duckett was never really going to push him, he was just going to fill his role (and fill it well)
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace R.I.P.
by phil26687 on Aug 25, 2009 11:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I love the form tackle by Russell
I wonder if he instructs teammates to jump on the ball-carrier’s back.
by John Morgan on Aug 25, 2009 11:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
this made me lol
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Aug 25, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he learned tackling off a diving-board.
…
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
by Misfit74 on Aug 25, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck it.
Give ’em hell Edge. Go Seahawks.
Child please...
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 25, 2009 11:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
he certainly doesn't instruct them on late hits
because nobody has the grit and pride to spear someone after the play like Russell(Gafney catch on Saturday was a pathetic example)
by Hancock.Brett on Aug 25, 2009 11:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"loss of Duckett without hardly a tryout"
Can you clarify that thought? He was here for 16 games last year, and so was Mora. Isn’t it fair to say that was a full season tryout? I understand that Knapp is new this year, but wouldn’t Mora be familiar enough with the basics of his scheme that he could intelligently observe Duckett?
I agree that they could have done more to pursue a RB in the offseason if they thought this move was coming, but we don’t know that they didn’t try at all – Maybe James would have been the choice all along?
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace R.I.P.
by phil26687 on Aug 25, 2009 11:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Duckett was never used in almost any capacity but short yardage.
This was the season he was to be used as a feature back, and he was—for thirty minutes of a preseason game. I would love for a team to give Duckett ten to fifteen carries a game for the length of a season. And I hope someone signs him and does that.
by John Morgan on Aug 25, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
makes sense
and I’m with you – I like TJ and I hope he lands on his feet with a decent team. Fred Jackson is hurt, so maybe Buffalo could give him a shot while Lynch is suspended…
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace R.I.P.
by phil26687 on Aug 25, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure where anyone gets the idea that Duckett can be good outside of short yardage.
Maybe you’ve seen something I haven’t, but I was dreading the prospect of Mora calling a handoff to Duckett on 1st and 10 on any kind of regular basis this season. To me, that play has no likely upside beyond a 4-5 yard run, and a strong possibility of 3 or less. Wouldn’t you rather hand the ball off to someone 10-15 times a game who has the wheels and/or moves to break a medium-to-long run every time he touches the ball? Duckett doesn’t seem to have either.
We can agree to disagree, I’m just puzzled where you’re seeing the upside in Duckett. He never really flashed that kind of potential, that I saw anyway. I always cheered for him, but I never expected much.
by sev79 on Aug 25, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if you watched his career you would know where we get that idea.
In 2008 Duckett was only used as a 3rd-and-short or goal line rusher. Before coming to Seattle in 2007 he had a higher average-per-rush than Edgerrin James OR Julius Jones have EVER had in their careers.
Please, a few facts.
TJ Duckett
Seattle 2008: 2.8 avg / 29 longest (used as short-yardage back only)
Detroit 2007: 5.2 avg / 53 yds longest
Edgerrin James
Arizona 2008: 3.8 avg / 27 longest
Arizona 2007: 3.9 avg / 35 longest
Julius Jones
Seattle 2008: 4.4 avg / 33 longest
Dallas 2007: 3.6 avg / 25 longest
Good luck, TJ. We hardly knew ya.
by Stevo's on Aug 25, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll say this
I was not left with good feelings about Ruskell’s reactions after the Buffalo game. When Forsett and Kent were released after one game, which was after they made the final roster. Releasing Forsett still was a mistake.
But I went from very concerned about our offense, after that game, to saying we wouldn’t come close to making the playoffs, when we nearly beat but lost to the 49ers the next week. That also sounds incredibly reactionary, but I assure you it’s quite contrary to my nature. The weight of receiving incompetence was simply too obvious, and I knew what the passing game meant to this team.
So looking back with clearer vision, I can at least say now it was clear to even me that drastic measures were warranted to have any chance, Kent couldn’t contribute at all that year, and this team’s contention window was being barely kept open and trying to win now was the right thing to do.
That’s the one big in-season reaction that I can point to. As for the offseason moves to bolster the running game last year, the receivers this year, it might seem over-reactionary. But there’s substance in the volume approach. A lot of risk mitigation. Moderate investment, spread evenly across several ponies, anticipating one will stick.
So it’s fair to wonder whether it’s reactionary, and criticize if it is. But I see a lot of logic in the approach, and substance to the idea that it’s not reactionary.
Ultimately I think the issue with Duckett is when you rely on him, your hand is forced, as to the nature of how you rely on him, and that’s thoroughly transparent to the opponents. While the line issues didn’t provide a contrast in effectiveness for Forsett and Moore, the Broncos’ reaction to Duckett illustrated these dynamics. As Mora said, it exposed some things. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Denver game wasn’t the indicting body of evidence but affirmation of this as an existing concern.
by jacobstevens on Aug 25, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Releasing Forsett was definitely a mistake
but the mistake was ultimately realized and corrected. Also remember that they went into the Buffalo game with Rocky and Babs on one-game suspension and had to cut back down to 53 afterwards.
by lemonverbena on Aug 25, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say the same things re Duckett
Signing him in the first place was a mistake, but the mistake was ultimately realized and corrected.
Now we’ll see if signing Edge was a mistake too.
Not sure I agree with John that any of this “validates” the idea that Ruskell is an impulsive and reactive GM. But it certainly feeds the negativity of those who are already inclined to think that way and who will seize on this as yet more proof that Ruskell ought to be and soon will be fired.
by Mr Fish on Aug 25, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More and more, I like it
Shows that the team is serious about winning now regardless of “investment” in a given player. Duckett was a poor signing in retrospect, but he did get a fair shot (last season, plus training camp and two preseason games this year). He was a sunk cost. I like that Ruskell is willing to cut bait on his own mistake when a better option is available.
Sando put it this way:
Breaking long runs is not James’ game, but he showed during the Cardinals’ postseason run that he could still help a team.
Arizona simply wasn’t willing to pay James’ salary of $5 million this season, and James was bitter enough about his diminished role to want out. And so the Cardinals released him.
The Seahawks are getting a supremely motivated player from a division rival.
Also, I wasn’t previously aware that Edgerrin’s girlfriend and mother of his four children died of leukemia earlier this year.
Edge is coming to the Hawks with an edge, and maybe some humility.
by lemonverbena on Aug 25, 2009 11:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It seemed like to me that Jones and Duckett complemented each other well.
Jones, James, and Forsett all seem to be similar backs (not that I’m complaining). Am I wrong in this assessment?
Is James a good fit for our ZBS? If he still has the 1st and 2nd gear, it seems like it.
by LantermanC on Aug 25, 2009 11:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They did compliment each other well
But Duckett wasn’t a ZBS back and it looks like Edge will be a better fit. I’m hoping Edge can establish a nice red zone presence. We’re gonna have problems if we try just handing the ball off to grind out the final couple yards for the score the way we could with Duckett. Instead, look for us to run more screens and draws in the red zone to keep the defense guessing.
by Hawkhammer19 on Aug 25, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind that we're going to see lots of new looks this year
Jumbo backfield with Griffith at fullback and Schmitt the ballcarrier, perhaps?
by lemonverbena on Aug 25, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like a tank clearing the way for an aircraft carrier.
Wait, what?
Child please...
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 25, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Jones got hurt would you want Duckett or Forsett taking over at RB1 for a few games?
I sure as heck wouldn’t.
Either Jones or James could be (mediocre to average) feature backs in our offense. They’re also both decent in pass-pro and receiving. We traded for flexibility and true depth at the RB position.
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 25, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, and that's what I was thinking.
Forsett, a guy who were not sure can handle the load full time with Duckett, a guy we’re not sure can hit the hole quick enough and be a back with more responsibilities than just getting 2 yards is not something I want as our backup option.
by LantermanC on Aug 25, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DVOA is not a measure of a running back.
It is a measure of a team’s ability to run the ball.
-some guy
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 25, 2009 12:03 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Comparing him to his teammates:
Arrington +31.2%
Hightower -20.5%
Recieving
Arrington +23.3%
Hightower -10.2%
James -12.6%
SSS obviously though.
by LantermanC on Aug 25, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm in your stadiumz, increasing your DVOA.
Child please...
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 25, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just playing some gotcha
Though he played against different opponents and in different situations than Arrington and Hightower, I think it is helpful to compare him to them as they played behind similar lines. It looks to me that James was a lot better than Hightower (better DVOA, much better YPC).
In interesting note: James ranked 31st in rushing DVOA (of all backs with more than 100 carries) but had a DVOA of 0% (the definition of “average”).
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 25, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
31st out of 49 though.
So he’s just a bit ‘below average’ for those RBs who get a lot of carries, but if you include all the 3rd string RBs getting carries, he’s average.
by LantermanC on Aug 25, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where's Brenden
He’s the expert on this topic
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Aug 25, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't it Branden?
Glenn Beck likes argument, but has a deap-seated hatred for logic.
by Cheddar28 on Aug 25, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I don't think so
Let me draw a graph to illustrate (or maybe a picture). . . .
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 25, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Brendan. E, then A.
Look! A urinal bird!
by thebyron on Aug 25, 2009 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, great analysis John.
And good caption to the picture.
The quality of work that you do continues to surprise me, and the speed at which you do it is impressive. I think this piece does a good job of allaying the fears and concerns many of us were feeling last night.
by LantermanC on Aug 25, 2009 12:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I also like that Morgan often reacts emotionally, like any fan
then deconstructs his own judgment and reverses course if necessary
by lemonverbena on Aug 25, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NFL analyst cyborgs do not have emotions.
Child please...
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 25, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm happy to read this.
Yesterday, there weren’t alot of happy campers over here.
Granted Edge didn’t do so well during the regular season for the Cards last year, but he tore it up in the playoffs and I think they should thank him. In addition, the Cards didn’t have the best O Line either, none of their RBs made much progress.
That said, I think you guys will be happy with Edge. He has a great work ethic (according to Peyton, he was the best player he’d ever played with) and he will be a good leader for your younger guys. He may not have 3rd gear anymore, but he still brings alot to the table.
I know we’re all rooting for him (with the exception of October 4th, of course.)
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Aug 25, 2009 12:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Please don't let Pittsburgh back into the Superbowl.
Please?
Child please...
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 25, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Philly takes everyone by surprise when they signed Vick
but the Hawks are still no-comment on + Edge, – Duckett, the day after both have been reported by NFL Network.
Edgerrin has to pass his physical first, I assume.
by lemonverbena on Aug 25, 2009 1:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Still trying to get his walker through airport security.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
by Misfit74 on Aug 25, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably to excited to show people he could still run.
And took off through the metal detector. And is currently in holding with the TSA
NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!
by Scruffy Lefty on Aug 25, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is getting kind of rediculous
Seahawks don’t have James, or Duckett
(AP) – 12 minutes ago
RENTON, Wash. — Edgerrin James is not practicing yet with the Seahawks. Neither is T.J. Duckett.
Seattle practiced Tuesday morning without James, the league’s active leading rusher who reportedly has an agreement on a new contract with the team.
James was not at team headquarters or in the Seattle area through Monday night and had not taken a physical, so a contract was not finished.
The Seattle Times reported seeing James’ agent, Drew Rosenhaus, in the lobby of team headquarters as practice began.
Duckett was also missing. A team spokesman said the veteran running back is still on the roster, hours after an Internet report that Seattle is releasing him to make roster room for James.
by lemonverbena on Aug 25, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AP just loves sticking in "an internet report"
even though it was later confirmed by league sources
by lemonverbena on Aug 25, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FIX YO INTERNAL LEAKS
Great. Wouldn’t surprise me if the ‘Hawks were trying to do all of this DL, on the contingency that Edge passes a physical and/or they could get a first-hand look at him. The story leaks, and now they’ve got a little blow-up on their hands.
I blame Mary Beth King.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
by jteckmann on Aug 25, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
confusion
Maybe Mora was tired of confusing TJ Duckett and Leroy Hill. So he just got rid of the guy who was least productive.
The big question is this though. After Rosenhaus leaves the VMAC, who scrubs all the slime off the carpet and the floors. I feel dirty just thinking about the guy.
by Section 128 on Aug 25, 2009 1:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
From Sando
A sortable Excel spreadsheet of every carry by Edge last year.
And looking at the YPC per game table, this analysis here, while incredible, is due a grain of salt on account of it evaluating the best of the best. Granted, he looked good in the playoffs. It shows there’s something still there, or very recently still was, but not necessarily to be expected with complete consistency. Still, the results are moderately encouraging.
by jacobstevens on Aug 25, 2009 2:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the move
simply because they are doing something to address the obviously anemic running game. Maybe with Edge opposing defenses can’t simply stack the box the way they could with Duckett, and have to show a little more respect. And maybe Jones is hurt worse than we know, and the prospect of playing the first couple of games with only Duckett and Forsett was ugly. Now, I hope we pick up a guard or tackle to bolster the O-line, like maybe Levi Jones. Start the season with Levi, and finish with Walter. Move Locklear back to the right and Willis to guard. That would help the run game.
by diehard82 on Aug 25, 2009 7:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
John and his minions.
Opinion here goes from “OH NO! WORST MOVE EVER!” yesterday to “Hey, nice pickup, good move there.” today.
Andrew Raycroft for backup? Does not compute.
by Woodinville_12thMan on Aug 25, 2009 8:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's a head scratcher move that,
upon further review, isn’t as bad as was initially feared. What do you expect? That’s how people react to sudden and unexpected news. They usually choose an extreme, then settle down into a more moderate view after they’ve had time to think it over for a bit.
by Fear on Aug 25, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True,
but had John not made this post the opinion would not have radically shifted so. But that’s a testament to how much belief we have in his work and how much we respect the analysis he does. We are lucky to have a guy like John producing such quality of work purely for the love of the game.
Andrew Raycroft for backup? Does not compute.
by Woodinville_12thMan on Aug 25, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Squawk, squawk! 12th man wanna cracker!"
I’m still somewhat bummed, but slightly less so now.
by thebyron on Aug 25, 2009 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still puzzled.
The only reason for such a move that I can think of is T.J. Duckett’s minor concussion. That would seem consistent with Ruskell’s personnel moves. In the offseason or preseason, he tends to get rid of skill players who have a injury history or players who may be replaceable but got hurt in the preseason.
I’m still not sold on Edgerrin James, but I’d love to be wrong. Super Bowl wrong.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Aug 25, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it may have had to do more with Edgerrin's pass blocking ability
As much as they are trying put on a smiley face, the coaches and FO know Matt is our only hope for a really productive winning season. They want to provide him with as much protection as possible. JJ and EJ do that, whereas Duckett gets a concussion from a block.
I second that decision if EJ does prove to be much better at pass protection as well as a more capable back in the passing game. I’m betting those screens we saw are not going to be rare. I think Knapp clearly sees that his offense’s success is going to rest on Matt’s shoulders and he talked with Mora about getting a more well-rounded back that will help the overall system he is putting into place.
In Atlanta all they needed was a runner. In Seattle they need a versatile back and someone who can definitely protect Matt. I’m guessing more than just running ability affected this decision. I heard someone say TJ isn’t good in a ZBS, but he did fine in it in Atlanta.
I believe this decision was more about versatility over pure running ability. The fact that Duckett got a concussion during a block was a red flag that they needed an upgrade at the position. TC and the two preseason games were to evaluate the unit.
I think the evaluation noted our poor adaptation to the ZBS and a clear indication to Knapp that he would be passing alot more this year. Knapp is a pretty smart O-coordniator that adapts systems to talent, I have no doubt he is doing the same thing here. We will see the most passing from a Knapp offensive system ever.
That’s what I believe to be true. I believe this move was done to reinforce the passing game while not losing anything in the run game.
by ASeahawkfan on Aug 25, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure many readers think I'm crackers.
Active commenters represent like .01% of the readership.
by John Morgan on Aug 25, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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