Running Back Dreaming on Such an Autumn's Day
by John Morgan on Aug 25, 2009 3:26 PM PDT
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PrintWhile Seattle works out its mess at running back, I thought some would enjoy a little 2010 draft class talent spectating. This recent upheaval underscores Seattle's short term solution at running back and their lack of a succession plan after Edgerrin James and Julius Jones (T.J. Duckett?). A lot of readers stated they enjoyed the GM aspect of football: specifically the roster construction (though I'm sure the charity banquets are delightful). So to head off every thread devolving into fantasy GMing and rosterbation, here's a few 2010 prospects, passed through the Ruskell sieve, to enjoy on this autumn day of August.
If you hate this stuff, read no further.
C.J. Spiller: Academic All-ACC, three year contributor, leader, willing if undersized block, Spillman is the lightning half of a running back rotation. The draft produces a handful of burners in every class, but you will see exceptionally few that run away from ACC defensive backs like an average runner runs away from defensive linemen. Elite field speed. Return threat. Only 102 lost yards in 390 rushing attempts.
Charles Scott: Succeeded without a passing attack. Scott is decisive to the hole an undemanding. He played behind the perennially good LSU line. A thunder part of a rotation with a good enough first and second gear to occasionally break a good gain. Should fall to the second round or later.
Jonathan Dwyer: Thunder and lightning. Very good power and great second and third gears. Fills up a highlight reel, but not like Knowshon Moreno. Dwyer runs through and past defenders, but not often around defenders. He has not developed as a a receiver and has only caught ten passes in two seasons. The favorite for first running back taken, it would take injury or collapse to keep him out of the first round. Not yet 20.
Any other contender?
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Spiller and Dwyer are both awesome.
But I agree. I’d rather get Berry and Suh with our two first round picks (dreaming).
Or maybe Gerald McCoy?
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Aug 25, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Can anyone tell me what picks we have next year?
I know we have 2 first, but what picks did we trade away for this year? I thought we traded a 3rd to get Butler, and maybe a 4th or 5th.
by Mind of no mind on Aug 25, 2009 3:36 PM PDT reply actions
The Wikipedia's a Great Resource for Such Things
Check here. The ‘Hawks get Denver’s first, and Philly gets Seattle’s Third.
Free Agency
Chester Taylor will be a free agent. The short-term patchwork options at RB can clearly continue indefinitely.
I was looking through at free agents
But it was by team so it was a little annoying, but the two best free agent running backs that I saw were Willis McGahee and Ronnie Brown. I’m not sure if either fit our scheme or are Ruskell players, however. I’ll try to look through the other players soon.
Brown's deal is a little iffy...
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&filter_teams=MIA&id=3155
He only becomes a free agent if the NFL and Union strike a new CBA. If not, he’s under contract for 2010 and joins the fellas in the bottom list for free agency in 2011. Night and day between the two imo.
Other notable RB’s hitting the market in 2010:
Pierre Thomas
Willie Parker
Leon Washington(for now at least)
Chester Taylor
LenDale White
Darren Sproles
Worth noting… FA RB’s in 2011:
Deangelo Williams
Steven Jackson
Brian Westbrook
Michael Bush
Ahmad Bradshaw
Joseph Addai
Cadillac Williams
Cedric Benson
And as far as I’m concerned, Pierre Thomas or Ronnie Brown are fine, but if the Hawks pass on those guys and don’t end up with Jonathan Dwyer, I’m gonna be passing-on-Steven Jackson-pissed.
This is my thought as well....
I like the idea of continuing to build some depth on the OL and DL in the draft (as well as picking Beck’s replacement at some point) and running out patchwork RB’s for a few years while trying to hit a homer on a late round/free agent running back.
This of course is subject to change if Jones/Edge both perform poorly. I reserve the right to play Monday Morning GM and complain that sending out re-treads at the position that possesses the ball half the game is a terrible idea.
Are any of the guys Adrian Peterson-esque type franchise players coming out next year. I feel like sexy picks (RB/WR/QB) are for teams that continuously suck and the great teams are always stacking chips with linemen. This is a broad generalization but there has to be something to it because I’m NEVER wrong.
I saw a Kelly Jennings INT.......really....
by The Manchild on Aug 25, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Jonathan Dwyer
Watch that highlight reel and you’ll see what I mean.
by Hawkhammer19 on Aug 25, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I am intrigued by Evan Royster.
He isn’t particularly flashy and doesn’t look like a future star, but he strikes me as a college version of Julius Jones. I saw him in a game when he caught a few passes and looked good doing so, but that wasn’t a big part of PSU’s offense so he hasn’t had a lot of experience catching passes.
With Duckett out, we need a power back
Dwyer would be the dream boat but Scott would be a good second round option.
LeGarrette Blount out of Oregon is another beast to consider but I don’t think his personal record passes the Tim Ruskell test.
Not really.
The Seahawks got along fine without a power back when the main feature back was Shaun Alexander.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Aug 25, 2009 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure, all we need is an all-time great at LT in his prime and pretty damn good LG
Those should be easier to find than a power back, right?
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
Exactly.
Find the pieces of the O-line first, then get the RB’s, and you won’t usually need a power RB if you have the right pieces on o-line.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Aug 25, 2009 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, HoF LTs are a lot easier to find than power RBs, right?
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
*Sigh*
Granted, Shaun ran behind HoF’ers, yes. But I never said anything about that. You can still have a pretty good line without HoF-caliber linemen. You don’t necessarily need to find them, but you need to assemble a cohesive unit. Besides, while Walter Jones, while dominant, was only one piece of the puzzle. That should have been apparent during the 2006 season. The Broncos didn’t have a HoF lineman on their roster when Terrell Davis was tearing up the league.
My main point was, you don’t NEED a power RB if you have the right O-line. After all, last year, Carolina had one of, if not THE best power games in the league, and they didn’t have a power back in the mold of T.J. Duckett, not to mention they don’t have any certain future HoF’ers on their O-line.
I can go and suggest other times when the Seahawks had pretty solid running game and no power backs on the roster.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Aug 25, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not going argue for signing a star RB before developing a solid line
I just think that you need stellar line play if you want to avoid having a power back on the roster. Shaun had the benefit of an O-line with a dominant left side. The Broncos’ system has turned mediocre backs into big producers, but other teams haven’t been able to duplicate their success as well (and this in a copycat league where the emergence of the Wildcat made every coach re-write their playbook in mid-season).
Everyone wants a great line, but you can’t really wish it into existence and you can’t always draft for it. The 1st round picks the Hawks and the Cards have spent on the O-line in recent years haven’t been all that great. Great line play depends on a lot of factors (individual play, group cohesion, experience, health, athleticism, skill, etc) and I’m not sure you can really improve it by dropping other things and focusing solely on it. (Does this make me an O-line nihilist?)
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
Damn you!!!
I wanted to argue back and make fun of someone and… make a chart or something.
Way to ruin my night. Punk.
Great response, and I agree.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Aug 25, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Dwyer has a really interesting long running style.
Once he stretches out in the open field, he looks as if he’s running from a slight crouch which gives him sort of a labored stride.
Dunno about "labored"...
but that dude can pull away from defensive backs at 230 lbs. I’d like to see a few more moves and cuts than I’ve seen in the clips so far, but he’s clearly a hoss.
Another way to look at it is
he runs with a good pad level.
He could probably be faster if he brings his head back a little. This might be something he works on a lot in preparation for the combine.
by Hawkhammer19 on Aug 25, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Spiller, Dwyer and can we add Javid Best (Cal)?
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
As my love for Cal players is insane,
I would love a backfield of Forsett and Best. His cutting ability and speed is elite. He played with a dislocated elbow and rocked.
What does he "get away with"
By all accounts he is a great team member who works really hard and is not concentrated on individual goals but rather the team’s goals. Why aren’t you impressed? Is Kiper and every other draft analyst off their rocker? BTW I don’t take a ton of stock in the analysts, but their opinion is worth something. I will say I am biased towards Cal, but I don’t think there is any reason to knock the kid. I don’t think he’s the best pro-style runner in the upcoming class but unless he has a horrible year by his standards he will be a first day selection. Although with the draft changes coming I don’t know what first day means anymore.
Seriously though what is it that you know about this kid that makes you not like him? Or maybe it’s because he torched WSU last year? Sorry if Cal didn’t take out the first team in the 2nd qrtr of the 2nd game of the season before a trip cross country to face a tough OOC opponent.
Nothing against his character
I think he’s a hell of a college back, but maybe too east-west to be great in the pros.
by John Morgan on Aug 26, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I didn't think of this myself but someone else thought of it
The comparison to deangelo williams made me dig up a highlight of his college career and they look like very similar runners at that level. If you compare the videos they are very similar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnLRyrVF7js
I'm souring on Jonathan Dwyer.
Because his highlight reel music blows. Hell of a RB though.
Child please...
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 25, 2009 5:35 PM PDT reply actions
Here's LeGarrette Blount
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPjKLI9u8i4
No doubt this guy is a beast but I was looking for the strong cut he’d need for ZBS and I couldn’t really find it.
I know
but given his school and playing style he should be considered.
by Hawkhammer19 on Aug 25, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
To be fair
It isn’t like Blount’s been caught on a DUI, theft or other typically-Eugenite infractions. Word was he let himself get out of shape in the offseason and he skipped some classes. At the time, it sounded like it wasn’t something that would have gotten him suspended from a game. He’s now fully in shape and, after a recent trip away from camp for a personal issue, seemed fully aware that he’s now received the dreaded “lazy” label. Aware, conscious and ready to rebut that is. The attribute “questionable character” is easily mis-interpreted and mis-applied.
A concern I would have about Blount is that his highlights feature a lot of hurdling and trucking, two skills he’ll have to re-prove at the pro level, as far as I’m concerned. Those two “moves” tend to push you to your athletic limit and if you’re just hurdling guys and just bowling people over then you won’t pull it off in the pros. He also doesn’t block much in that particular spread-option and he hasn’t shown the greatest hands. And keep in mind that he ran behind an offensive line that produced 2nd and 5th round picks and helped undrafted Jeremiah Johnson run for over a 1000 yards against Pac-10 defenses.
On the positive, the Oregon offense is similar in one aspect to the zone blocking scheme in that it often allows for the runner to run along and chose his hole. Sort of like that stretch play that made SA, Walt and Hutch so famous, except Oregon runs it left, right, inside, outside…
Watching the Charles Scott highlights
Made me want to see the Seahawks draft some LSU lineman, but not Scott. Not that Scott isn’t good, but man, he should have packed a tent and beef jerky because he was running through the grand canyon on most of those.
Oh and btw the Huskies open their season in like a week against LSU. Its going to be epic to see what that offensive line will do to the Huskies horrific defense.
Spiller looks special. He’s not just fast, but has some good moves too. Its a little crazy just how many 70+ yard highlights he had.
Dwyer will probably not land on Seattle’s radar unless he adds pass catching to his repertoire. The Seahawks as of late seem to favor running backs who can do it all.
Here is a friend of mine's short-list:
RB
1. *Jonathan Dwyer, Jr. Georgia Tech (5’11", 235, 4.48)
2. C.J. Spiller, Sr. Clemson (5’11", 198, 4.40)
3. *Jahvid Best, Jr. California (5’10", 198, 4.42)
4. *Evan Royster, Jr. Penn State (6’0", 205, 4.45)
5. Chris Brown, Sr. Oklahoma (5’11", 210, 4.49)
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
Scott reminds me of Edge at Miami.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
Not that Mel Kiper is all knowing
but interesting that his top 25 includes Dwyer and Best, and none of the other RB’s mentioned here. Surprising to me as I thought Spiller was the Chris Johnson of this draft and his highlight reel above dazzled me. I’d like Spiller just for the excitement of watching him make guys miss and breaking off an occasional long run. When did Seattle last score on a long run of over 30 yards? Forsett is fun to watch on screens because it gets him separation, something I don’t think he can do on his own with regularilty. Spiller looks to have dazzling speed and moves to make defenders miss and create his own separation, then run away from DB’s. I guess I’m saying I think Spiller helps to sell tickets and jerseys.
And as long as we're drafting guys in pairs
Unger and Reed from Oregon
Teel and Green from Rutgers
Why not Spiller and Butler (CB) from Clemson?
Those guys ('experts') rarely rank or include underclassmen until declared for the draft.
Spiller isn’t a senior, if my memory serves me.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
Dwyer of course looked sexy in that.
I love me some power+speed in a RB. And being so young is a huge plus. Scott…yea he was running through canyons. So while he was definitely moving the pile, I’m not all that impressed. And Spiller? You weren’t kidding when you said he was a burner. Great north/south speed. But I didn’t particularly like his lateral speed. And he seemed to need to get about 8 yards to fully accelerate (although that may be in part because he had so much top end speed) and that won’t work in the NFL except on kickoffs.
Spiller is listed at 5-11 195
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/clem/sports/m-track/auto_action/1714680.jpeg
but it looks to be all muscle. His strong legs and narrow hips provide compact yet agile base. What you call lateral speed, I call lateral control. He keeps his pads low and doesn’t open his shoulders until he’s in space. One of my favorite qualities in Spiller is he remains elusive in limited space.
CJ has great vertical speed but sometimes tries taking the long way around. He’ll need to resist this temptation in the NFL but this is nothing other speed backs haven’t overcome. I really like Spiller yet wonder how he’d fit with Jones and Forsett.
If we draft an RB early then we’ll need him to be a strong red zone presence. This is the biggest question on Spiller for me this year. I think he can learn the necessary ZBS burst and perhaps keep our running game productive as our line goes through a major transition period over the next couple years.
by Hawkhammer19 on Aug 25, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Whoa. I never saw that highlight of Spiller.
At the 44-second and 46-second mark, he dodges a player in ankle-breaking fashion. Goddamn.
Dwyer was my favorite. He is deceptively fast, due to his 400m-like power strides. He pulls forward with his strides. He’s not a speed burner, but he moves forward fast. His angles are phenomenal.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
Before a new RB
Any chance we pick up a LT? Seems like a bigger, harder to fill need.
Russell Okung.
I’ll be keeping my eye on him.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Aug 26, 2009 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Dwyer looks interesting.
Jahvid Best also looks pretty good.
by Pessimistic Optimist on Aug 26, 2009 10:33 AM PDT reply actions
Dwyer looks good
I actually think we have a good running back though in Justin Forsett. We really should give him a shot at the job. The O-Line needs some serious work and signing new RB’s (like Edge) won’t really make much of a difference. Maybe Ruskell should’ve gone LT in the 1st round with Jones getting up in age. Just a thought.
by Mr. Blache III on Aug 26, 2009 11:00 AM PDT reply actions
Forsett is too small and too slow
to be the starter. I think he can find a niche in a committee but will never be the starter. The job I would be pleased to give Forsett a shot at is that of goal line back. I once heard him named a lesser MJD. Jones-Drew is one of the best goal line backs in the league. Forsett’s lack of a third gear wouldn’t be a factor and if he can win that job then it will really open up our options for RBs in next year’s draft.
by Hawkhammer19 on Aug 26, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, he should have been able to pull away on that one run against the Donks
but couldn’t. He’s just not fast enough. I’m really looking forward to getting some fresh faces in that position.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Aug 26, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
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