It's Official: Seattle Seahawks Sign Edgerrin James; Cut T.J. Duckett
Readers occasionally tell me they get all their Seahawks coverage from Field Gulls. Why? Mike Sando is still rocking at ESPN and Doug Farrar and Brain McIntyre are doing excellent work at NorthwestFootball.net. But if you haven't read this elsewhere, Seattle has officially signed Edgerrin James and released T.J. Duckett, ending the most nail-biting imbroglio of my lifetime since the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Ok, so this was a foregone conclusion. More than even most transactions, there's a huge unknown component to this move. Broadly speaking, Seattle has traded long-term potential for short term security. Duckett is younger and can potentially be a much better rusher than the 31 year old James. James is more stable, better able to fill in as a feature back, more rounded in his abilities - i.e. receiving and pass blocking - and is less likely to bust. James, in all likelihood, is a league-average running back. Duckett with his youth, speed and power, his checkered history of great production but few attempts, is both a much less stable and more likely to be unproductive player, and a more distinct talent. He is a talent with upside.
Inch back from the edge of your seats. Cease beer-fueled daydreams about preposterous trades. Quiet nightmare scenarios about Julius Jones' health. Seattle has signed a remarkably bland player and cut another to make room.
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Comments
Do root beer daydreams count?
…
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
by Misfit74 on Aug 26, 2009 11:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"...a league-average running back"
Heh. Good thing you specified.
by Groundhog on Aug 26, 2009 12:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I see this as a 'safe' move
In other words, this is a move to “not lose” rather than a move toward winning. The only reason this makes sense is if we imagine Julius Jones going down injured for a number of games. In that scenario, Duckett was not the right player to replace Jones. James is.
But if Julius Jones is healthy and starting, then this team has lost something. Not everyone has a strong, bruising, and quick RB who is dependable at gaining the 1st down on short yardage nearly every time his number is called. Now, we don’t have one either.
by Stevo's on Aug 26, 2009 12:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Edge highlights from 2008 playoffs
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80dda3a0/Wild-Card-Edgerrin-James-highlights
and some good comments by Terrell Davis
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8100c4b3/James-released
by Stevo's on Aug 26, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, Possibly a slight improvement.
When it comes down to it, Both Duckett and James are third down specialists. Duckett can inch forward and move piles for short yardage (even though he was 0 for 1 in the pre). So I agree with Stevo’s — we really lose something of value by losing Duckett.
James is a superior blocker and not much of an improvement on running, except hopefully he can get to the hole a little quicker and should be be to “one-cut” with better quickness. The knock against James is that he’s ineffective in short yardage situations, so it is really a kind of trade-off. What Knapp needs is more of a sure thing to set-up a block on third and long. He gets that and one who has the better hands to be an all-important check-down receiver for Matthew.
Here’s the kicker: In the likely event that Julius gets hurt, Knapp has more of a true tailback in James for starting purposes. Apparently, Knapp did not see Duckett in this role for certain reasons – nor does he see Forsett for other reasons.
So at Duckett’s expense, we are better, but only slightly. As everyone has stated, the real liability here is not the running game. It is the offensive line
by Hawksince76 on Aug 26, 2009 12:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
James isn't a 3rd down specialist
Hightower was the short yardage guy last year in Arizona.
Edge is a better all-around back with superior pass-pro and receiving. Duckett was a better specialist but couldn’t really be expected to fill in if Jones went down for any length of time.
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 26, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK Then - He's a "Situational" Back at Best
Unless you are saying that James will be warming the pine like a QB with a Clip-board awaiting for the call on a Jones injury, he will not be expected to be sharing the role with Julius Jones the way Mo Morris did last year.
More than likely, James will be ideal for third down situations on game day, assuming that Jones is starting and getting some 300 carries this season. His all around back skills that I have already listed up there will be ideal for situations. Those “situations” more that likely, will be 3rd down.
Either way, we can only expect to see Jones
by Hawksince76 on Aug 26, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we might be disagreeing about semantics and while agreeing in principle
James will probably get about 150 carries next year (give or take) playing behind Jones. He won’t necessarily be the short-yardage specialist, but he may get used in different ways than Jones is. He’ll also be able to fill in for Jones as the feature back if he goes down but may not be able to match Jones’ production (especially if he has to do it for more than 2-4 games).
I think Edge was brought in because (1) he could be the feature back for stretches if Jones was injured and (2) he offers flexibility that Duckett can’t. I think Knapp is like Alton Brown in that he doesn’t want “unitaskers” (at least at RB). He wants opposing defenses to have to worry that the RBs they face may run, block and/or receive instead of just run. For these reasons, I think that there is some overlap in the abilities of the RBs even if their running styles may vary.
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 26, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't understand all the negativity
I understand that the O-line must get healthy for the running game to succeed. But the running personnel had to be shaken up. Every outside expert that has looked at the Seahawks said their running backs were inferior, and that became obvious to those inside the VMAC as well. I’m stoked the front office didn’t just sit back, wait for the zone blocking scheme to sink in and say, “These are our guys. Go block somebody.” Is Edge something to get really excited about? No. But the one-dimensional Duckett was the weakest part of the RB personnel, and his spot has been upgraded.
Go Edge. Go Hawks.
by lemonverbena on Aug 26, 2009 12:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Edge was something of sidegrade
I’m not going to say that he won’t help the club, but he’s not somebody you could really get excited about.
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 26, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you over-value Duckett
And I don’t think there’s that much to back it up. Duckett has been with several teams and really never stood out with any of them.
An awful lot of people thought Duckett would be cut last year. Despite his mediocre performance in last year’s pre-season, he did well in short yardage during the regular season. Ultimately though, they used him more like a fullback than a halfback.
They’re going to keep 2 fullbacks, there’s no sense having a 3rd taking up a tailback slot.
They likely believe that the runaway Beer Truck can run upfield better than Duckett AND he’s a real fullback.
I think we’re beyond talking about “potential” for Duckett. He’s 28 years old. His best years are behind him.
by lordtd on Aug 26, 2009 12:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree.
“Duckett with his youth, speed and power” is sort of silly.
He’s 28, which for a RB in the NFL is typically the end of the player’s prime. He’s only young compared to 31-year-old James.
Duckett’s also not a guy you associate with speed . Of Jones, James, and Forsett, I seriously doubt Duckett’s top speed is higher than any of them, and if it is, it’s only marginally so.
Power. Yeah, he was the most powerful back we had. I was often disappointed with his pop. It’s not like this guy was Brandon Jacobs or Marion Barber in the power department. But such as it was, his power in short yardage will probably be missed.
by sev79 on Aug 26, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
28 is a running back's prime, not the end of it.
In 2007, Duckett produced a first down once every 4 attempts and was 5 for 6 in power situations. Duckett was a first round selection in 2002, but has bounced around the league playing behind flashier backs.
A tools monster…
The 6-2, 250-pounder ran the 40-yard dash in 4.45 seconds, had a vertical leap of 37 inches, recorded a 9-foot-11 broad jump and has his body fat under a mind-boggling six percent.
Starting to put it together…
11.7 DVOA/7.0 DPAR
(Behind a rotten O-line no less)
23rd Adjusted Line Yards/50% Power Success
With fresh tread on his tires…
Just Turned 27/655 career carries
(And can catch a little too)
Career 8.7 Yards Per Reception
by John Morgan on Aug 26, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's one thing to say he hasn't produced
Which is debatable, but he has excellent potential. That’s why teams keep signing him.
by John Morgan on Aug 26, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watch him destroy when the Giants sign him afetr Jacobs goes down.
Nevertheless, I support the move.
by jacobstevens on Aug 26, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Potential is nice for a 22 year old back
But for a 28 year old guy it’s doublespeak for “he hasn’t done squat yet”. James and Jones have both been featured backs, Duckett never has.
The liklihood of him starting to do things now is small.
Apparently several separate sets of NFL staffs agree. Atlanta, Washington, Detroit and Seattle.
I’ll side with them.
by lordtd on Aug 26, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 26, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet this is an almost entirely irrational argument.
Describing something as “doublespeak” is a classic diversion with hints of ad hominem attack. Potential is a perfectly understandable word. It means something can perform at a level it is not currently performing.
Duckett did for three seasons in Atlanta. He had 1,785 yards, 23 TDs and 97 first downs in 431 carries. Rushes by Duckett were worth 318 DYAR over that period, more than double teammate Warrick Dunn. He had a down season in 2005 and then was traded to the Redskins in 2006.
Since then he’s played for Joe Gibbs (now retired) and Rod Marinelli. You can’t side with them, because you don’t know their motivation for not retaining Duckett. If you are saying that because the team didn’t keep the player the player must be bad, then you are appealing to authority and making an illogical argument.
I am not arguing that Seattle is dropping a sure thing. Duckett has his limitations. He was once a better rusher than Seattle otherwise has on its roster. That was 2004. Duckett is only 28. It’s very reasonable that he could regain his prior form and be a good running back.
by John Morgan on Aug 26, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I'll concede that "doublespeak" was a bad choice of words
No “ad hominem” intended. I just couldn’t think of the right word for it. What I meant to say was that the word “potential” is only used when it hasn’t been reached. You usually don’t hear talk of “potential” for players who perform on a high level. It’s not “doublespeak”, but the usage is different depending on who you talk about. For example, you don’t talk about Tom Brady’s “potential”, but you would talk about Mike Teel’s. If you’ve got a 6 year veteran and you’re talking about his “potential”, that means he hasn’t done much.
If you’ve played for 6 years and not reached your “potential”, then it’s not likely that you will ever do so. I don’t think the word “potential” is even appropriate to use in that case. At a certain point it ceases to be a meaningful concept. Instead you have to look at his best year, figure out what percentage of that you’re likely to get again (less than 100%) and then decide if that has value.
I don’t think you can compare his DYAR stats to that of Warrick Dunn and get anything useful. He was a “change of pace” guy in Atlanta and a bit of that here last year in the short yardage situations he was used in. He was used more as a running fullback last year, in situations where you might have seen Mack Strong in the past. They have 2 other fullbacks they plan to use in that roll now, and both of those guys block better than Duckett and both are better receivers.
I am appealing to authority, but that does not necessarily constitute a logical fallacy. The “appeal to authority” or “ad verecundiam” logical fallacy is only relevant if the authorities cited are lacking in expertise in the subject matter. Clearly Duckett’s NFL coaches are experts in evaluating NFL-caliber talent and thus their evaluation of his potential is relevant.
My statement is simply that your assessment of his potential clearly differs from theirs (and that of Jim Mora and his staff), and they have more expertise than you. Thus, in any argument about his potential I’d side with them. Does that make them right? No. But if I had to bet, I’d put my money with them. They see him every day in practice, they know what things he’s supposed to do on every play, and know what he did in those situations. They have a much better take on his “potential” than any of us.
by lordtd on Aug 27, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a Universal Truth
Probably the best defense of a comment I have ever read. John may be great but the reliance on perfect logic sometimes found here is futile. To acknowledge that we really are not in a position to make accurate presumptions can only humble us and allow a clearer though process. None of us saw this comming and so all of us must acknowledge we know nothing about it. Great post, great comments, just had to give my props.
by HereticHawk on Aug 27, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe there was a roll for him on this team,
unfortunate that we will not be able to se it realized.
by Jo-Jo on Aug 26, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The average age of starting running backs in the league would disagree with you, I think.
This league kills running backs. Very, very few remain productive beyond age 30. That gives Duckett 2 more years of his current skill level before decline is almost certain, unless he’s the exception to rule. So I think “youth” is still a stretch applied to him.
by sev79 on Aug 26, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And as a 30-year-old, I hate saying that.
by sev79 on Aug 26, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're old. old, and more old.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Aug 26, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is, he's 28 this season
In the heart of his prime. It doesn’t matter if he does decline in two years, Seattle could have cut him then.
by John Morgan on Aug 26, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"top speed"
Or acceleration.
Glenn Beck likes argument, but has a deap-seated hatred for logic.
by Cheddar28 on Aug 26, 2009 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Sando is still rocking at ESPN
Meh. I’m not the biggest fan of Sando. Regardless, I’m sad to see Duckett go, but hopefully James can fill in decently. I’m not really expecting anything, as long as he produces, I don’t really care. I guess the FO knows more about Selvin Young than we do.
That being said, I REALLY hope we draft a good HB next year. Most of the teams that use a high pick on a running back seem to get pretty good results. It would be nice to see that here.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Aug 26, 2009 2:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sando's great and he links to FG more than any other mainstream author
by lemonverbena on Aug 26, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He blogs about the NFC West.
He would be a fricking moron if he didn’t link to FG.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Aug 26, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This reminds me of the Francoeur for Church trade this season
The Braves gave up on upside with spotty production (by traditional measures) for the slightly better player with zero upside.
I’m not sure you can read much into this move one way or another. It’s quite possible (maybe even likely) that Ruskell is acting rashly. Maybe he’s trying to strike fear into the the collective heart of rest of the team by cutting Duckett for something he saw that he didn’t like. At the same time he picks up a back who is reasonably likely to be just as good as Duckett pound for pound this year if healthy (a big “if”).
Or, it may be that Ruskell is being ultra pragmatic. He anticipates that the offensive line will take a while to gel, that he’ll need to lean on the passing game early, and he simply wanted a better all-around player at second-string HB. Unfortunately, this is one remarkably dreadful market for free agent backs.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Aug 26, 2009 3:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Whhhhat aboooout...
Owen Schmitt? You know, the big guy? Does he not spell “good short-yardage runner” to anyone else? If he’s fast enough to lead block effectively he’s fast enough to punch up the middle.
Glenn Beck likes argument, but has a deap-seated hatred for logic.
by Cheddar28 on Aug 26, 2009 11:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if the former is automatically conducive to the latter.
by jacobstevens on Aug 27, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well perhaps not
but I think the correlation is strong enough if he can plow between the guard-and-center and not have to dance around more than about 1 defender.
Glenn Beck likes argument, but has a deap-seated hatred for logic.
by Cheddar28 on Aug 31, 2009 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schmitt and Griffith
I think that’s the main issue here. They have 2 guys who can pound it (plus Edge) if they need to. Last year none of their HBs were pound-it guys (Morris and Jones) so Duckett was needed. If you have Jones, James, Forsett, Schmitt and Griffin, what do you need Duckett for? They are committed to Forsett and Jones, so Duckett was the odd man out.
by lordtd on Aug 27, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weaver
He was around, but he wasn’t as much of a fullback in the mold of Schmitt/Griffith.
Brett Favre is the Kenny Powers of football.
by ninjasocks on Aug 27, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd never heard Edge speak before last night
he sounded to have a mild accent. Coming from Florida, I was guessing somewhere in the Caribbean. My wife’s family is all from Jamaica and Trinidad, and it was similar. He was born and grew up in Florida, but I can find no mention of whether his family hails from an Island nation or somewhere else. Anyone know? Just curious. Also, his partner/mother of his 4 kids died, in the spring of this year. Very sad.
by jacobstevens on Aug 27, 2009 10:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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