NFC West Roundtable: Safety
My take on Seattle's safeties should look awfully familiar. They are reconstructed from the season retrospectives I did on Deon Grant and Brian Russell. See, I'm already late to leaving and need to hit the road. So forgive me this shortcut and I'll try to reward you with detailed training camp analysis.
Arizona Cardinals
Blogger: cgolden
The Arizona Cardinals safeties are a talented and accomplished group led by two time Pro Bowler, yet still under appreciated, Adrian Wilson. While guys like Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu and Bob Sanders get all the glory, Wilson has been in the desert doing dirty work. Since he came into the league (2001) no other safety has combined for more tackles (612) or sacks (18.5) and yet most fans are still more familiar with his youtube jump than with his play on the field. Wilson's work and loyalty to the organization was rewarded this offseason with a five year, $39 milllion dollar contract that should keep him in the organization for the rest of his career. Wilson's strength is at the line of scrimmage where he's a force against the run and even better rushing the passer, but he's not incapable of covering tight ends or the occasional receiver. In six of his eight seasons he's recorded multiple interceptions and with another full season he should enter the 20 sack/20 interception club. The best thing you can say about A-dub is that the defense simply isn't the same when he isn't on the field.
Wilson's counterpart for the second consecutive season will be converted cornerback Antrel Rolle. Rolle got off to a slow start last year after a high ankle sprain robbed him of valuable time in camp to learn the position. For the first half of the season he was often out of position or took terrible angles to the ball but as the season wore on, his play steadied. He began to understand the position and by season's end (and the playoff run) he was a reliable center fielder and a decent last line of defense. Rolle's ahtleticism sets him apart from most free safeties and many are expecting him to have a breakout year now that he's fully acclimated to the position.
The primary thing that makes Wilson and Rolle unique is that niether of them play a 'true safety' role on passing downs. Wilson becomes almost a nickel linebacker and Rolle often slides to play the corner against a slot reciever. Thier versatility allows the Cardinals to throw different looks at opposing offenses but it also means that the Cardinals expect much more from their third and fourth safeties. After watching Aaron Francisco and Matt Ware struggle with the increase in playing time the Red Birds spent a third round pick on Alabama free safety Rashad Johnson. RJ isn't a great athlete but he has a nose for the ball and is a natural center fielder. He's expected to immediately step into the 'third safety' spot and see quite a bit of playing time on passing downs. His presence will allow Francisco, Ware and free agent acquisition Keith Lewis to battle for the backup strong safety spot, which better suits each of their skill sets. No one in that trio is considered to be much more than a glorified special teamer but as long as they're not forced into significant playing time, they can hold their own. Another depth option is second year UDFA Dennis Keyes, a free safety out of UCLA, who some consider a darkhorse to make the team as a fifth safety.
The Cardinals safeties as a whole are talented, accomplished and have the potential to be even better than they were last year. Adrian Wilson is an A+ and no one else on the depth chart is bad enough to drop this group any lower than a solid A.
San Francisco 49ers
Blogger: Fooch
The 49ers safeties are a mix of production and potential. On the one hand you've got Michael Lewis and Mark Roman backing up at free safety. A pair of veterans who have done some good things in the past (for Roman a bit further in the past). On the other hand you've got the likes of Dashon Goldson, Reggie Smith and Curtis Taylor. Players teeming with potential, but nothing proven yet.
Barring injury (a very real possibility), the starters will be Dashon Goldson at free safety and Michael Lewis at strong safety. Goldson has as much unproven potential as anybody on this roster. He was an absolute ballhawk in training camp last year, but could not get past Mark Roman on the depth chart. Injuries throughout the season (as with the previous season) have kept him from making his mark. This season he was named the starting free safety shortly after the season ended and has had yet another impressive training camp performance. The 49ers have lacked a great free safety for quite some time and Goldson has the potential to be that turnover machine in centerfield. The question remains whether he can stay healthy.
At strong safety, the 49ers role out the extremely underrated Michael Lewis. Lewis signed as a free agent in 2007 and has been in the top 2 or 3 in tackles both seasons. While he does not force turnovers, he provides excellent run support. Lewis is 29 but is as established a veteran as any on this defense. Lewis won't be going anywhere anytime soon and will be an excellent role model in the defensive backfield for Goldson.
The primary backups at safety will be Mark Roman and Reggie Smith. At 32, Mark Roman has clearly come to the end of the road as a starter. The 49ers told him Goldson would be starting and let him speak with other teams about a trade. Nobody wanted him. So, Roman is back to provide a continued veteran presence for the team. His problem is that he can't force turnovers anymore. The last time he forced a turnover was in 2006. Reggie Smith was originally drafted by the 49ers to be a cornerback, but most thought he'd end up at safety, which appears to have happened. It will be interesting to see how much playing time Smith actually gets. Even though he got banged up, Michael Lewis has managed to stay on the field. Smith will have to battle for playing time. The final backup at this point is Curtis Taylor. Taylor was a 7th round pick this year out of LSU. He was highly touted out of high school but was quite the underperformer. Right now he's a practice squad candidate hoping to squeeze onto the roster.
The easiest grade for the safeties would be a C. Lewis is a very solid performer (certainly not spectacular), while Goldson is almost all potential. However, I'm gonna roll the dice on a healthy Goldson and give the team a B.
Turf Show Times
Blogger: VanRam
The Rams have a really nice situation at both starting safety positions this season. At free safety, playing under a one-year franchise deal, Oshiomogho Atogwe is a former Pro Bowler with 13 INTs in his last two seasons. Obviously, he's what the kids like to call a "ball hawk." Rawwk, rawwwk! Last season he singlehandedly gave the Rams a faint glimmer of hope when he picked off Jason Campbell for a difference making touch down that started the Rams on a two game winning streak, their only two wins of the season. As he starts his age-28 season, the Rams are counting on him to become a more complete player. For that, he needs to get more consistent in coverage; of course, come of his problems in coverage over the last couple years have much to do with confusion among some of the weaker cornerbacks the Rams have employed, blowing assignments and leaving Atogwe to try and do two jobs. The new coaching staff should really benefit Atogwe's development, as Spagnuolo is a former defensive backs coach himself, having worked with someone names Brian Dawkins in Philly.
The Rams have lots of questions marks on the roster, but safety is not one of them. They've go an straight in that department.
Seattle Seahawks
Blogger: John Morgan
For the eighth consecutive season, Deon Grant started all 16 games. On a superficial statistical level, Grant's season looked like his every other: 79 total tackles, eight passes defended and two interceptions. He was played in the box or walked up to the line for much of the season following the Giant's 254 yard rushing assault in week five.
Grant was a leader in the real sense of the word making reads in the secondary and positioning Seattle's young and less aware defensive backs in place to make the play. When allowed to play deep safety, Grant again showed the recognition, quickness and ball skills that made him so valuable last season. His execution - especially his timing - on safety blitzes is remarkable.
Quintessential Game: Eagles at SeahawksPhiladelphia 17 - Seattle 7
3-4-SEA 4 (Qtr: 2:09)
Eagles break 2 WR, TE, Split Backs with McNabb in shotgun. Seattle in a 4-1 dime. Before the snap, Deon Grant directs Jordan Babineaux over right split back Lorenzo Booker. Brian Westbrook motions into the right slot. Grant gives Wilson a come here gesture and points him towards a spot opposite Westbrook. Grant looks back towards the endz--
McNabb snaps, Brent Celek shoots out wide right attempting a block, Westbrook quick-curls towards McNabb, McNabb delivers a perfect pass into his numbers and almost as soon as Grant can see the play has started Wilson is in Westbrook's frame finishing the no-doubt-about-it tackle for a loss of three.
Grant wasn't a good in-the-box safety in 2007 and removed all doubt in 2008. He's better against the run as a support tackler or a finisher. If a run is channeled to him or strung wide, he can put on a body on the rusher and record the stop. He's not a reliable open-field tackler and wont to bad angles and broken arm tackles.
Grant is uneven breaking from the line and engaging in man cover.
In week six, Grant collided with Packers' fullback Cory Hall on the first play from scrimmage. After the game he said, "I heard a pop, so it must be an MCL," and added, "Something happened with it. I didn't get any tests. I just put a brace on and went back out there."
Quintessential Game: Seahawks at 49ers
Deon Grant makes a wonderful free safety: Four plays after pick two, Niners at the two. Both teams are in classic goal line formations. Grant is wide-right playing contain. At the snap, Frank Gore runs into an impenetrable pile but escapes, breaks right and runs unabated for the score. Grant is 100% to blame. At the snap, Frank Gore runs into an impenetrable pile, but when he begins breaking right, Grant can be seen staring into the pile, at the center of the field, away from Gore, unaware of Gore and out of the play as soon as Gore hits the corner. Just a terrible play by a player I really like.
Grant didn't miss a game or even the rest of week six. He looked broken on the trainer's table and was indisputably in terrible pain, but was back by the second quarter. Grant may just be lucky or abnormally resilient. Whatever the case, he appeared on the week seven injury report as "probable", played and nothing more was reported about the injury.
A cover 2 shell would suite Grant nicely. He could read and react to plays and tackle or attack passes running downhill. He's not a prototypical Tampa 2 safety, but as he ages and slows, it will soften his decline. What he adds as a pass defender should more than overcome his weaknesses in run support.
Brian Russell started 16 games in 2008. He did not appear on the injury report and missed only one snap all season. His statistics were in line with his career numbers: 72 tackles, one sack and three passes defended. It was his fourth season in six seasons starting he had three or fewer passes defended. He turned 31 on February 5, 2009.
Russell had a couple good stops against Philadelphia and headed off a couple long plays.
Russell is a bad player, perhaps below replacement level, that's schematic use has negative utility in the modern NFL. He ensures swearing is present and persistent at Field Gulls, because swearing is a healthy release from extreme physical pain.
Negative utility is the operative phrase there. Russell is played to reduce the greatest amount of harm, neglecting the fact that a team can prevent scoring passes without being a successful pass defense. Russell sometimes stops a 30 yard play from going for 50 and the score. That leaves the opposing team in the red zone with a new set of downs. In 2007, Seattle parlayed that strategy into an improbable mix of a high number of opposing pass attempts, a below average number of yards allowed, but the league's best touchdown's allowed*. At the time, I accepted it as the hallmark of a bend but don't break defense, but I've become ever more skeptical of the bend but don't break phenomenon. Seattle flexed the other way in 2008, allowing more relative attempts - an extraordinarily high number of pass attempts for a 4-12 team - the worst pass yards in football, and the 27th ranked touchdown passes allowed.
Opponents provided compelling evidence that neither the strategy nor Russell work. Seattle allowed ten touchdown passes of ten or fewer yards. Proving the Seahawks couldn't cede field position and then toughen in the red zone. It also allowed ten touchdowns of 20 or more yards. Proving that as a deep cover safety, Russell wasn't covering s--t.
Seattle didn't draft a safety until the seventh and Courtney Greene is a project Seattle hopes to develop. Jamar Adams hasn't received much pub. However cringeworthy, Russell is the presumptive and almost uncontested starter at free safety. Seattle could mitigate that some by making Russell just a safety. That is, a cover 2 safety and therefore not truly a strong or free safety. It absolutely must avoid putting Russell on an island and hoping his savvy and field marshalship overcomes his broken wheels, bad compass, terrible technique and leather-helmet athleticism.
Tim Ruskell added a wildcard into the mix by saying longtime utility defensive back Jordan Babineaux will contend for Russell’s job. Babineaux is a read and react zone defender that struggles to keep the play in front of him. He struggled as a nickel corner in 2007 and didn't so much improve in 2008 as have less responsibility. In a more structured role, say in a cover-2 where he starts deep and keeps the play in front of him by default, he's faster than Russell, more agile than Russell, more athletic than Russell, stronger than Russell, a better tackler than Russell and has better ball skills than Russell. Defensive backs coach Tim Lewis stated Russell is the starter, so I will assume Russell is the starter, and since Russell doesn’t participate enough to injure himself, and since he’s swayed the coaching staff, Seattle’s starting safeties earn a D. This isn't an average, a liability as bad as Russell overrides Grant. You just can't hide him. Dress it up how you’d like, rationalize if you must, denial’s been attempted by a few, but Deon Grant is good, Brian Russell is awful, and awful swallows good like paper swallows rock.
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Adrian Wilson...A+?
Troy Polomalu is an A+
Ed Reed is an A+
Adrian Wilson does not play on the level that those guys do. Keep dreaming, buddy.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
He's pretty beast, though.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Aug 7, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Career stats:
Wilson: 497 tackles, 18.5 sacks, 18 picks
Polamalu: 326 tackles, 7 sacks, 17 picks
Reed: 339 tackles, 5 sacks, 43 picks
Still a tough call because Polamalu seems to make a play on every snap. I’d be happy with any of them. <—-nominee for Captain Obvious Award
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 7, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Absolutely, they're all great
I think Reed is my personal favorite but I’m not taking anything away from any of them.
Wilson is a beast.
Certainly belongs in with those guys, IMO.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
I love Adrian as well,
but I think he’s a step below Reed and Polly, and maybe behind Sanders (2 years ago anyways). 4 Safeties out of 60 get A+, just depends on the cutoff. A is close enough to A+ anyways, if Reed and Polly are A+, then Sanders, Landry, and Wilson are A’s (probably a few more safeties in there).
It's splitting hairs though really
And the last person’s hairs I want to split are Wilson’s.
by Nate Dogg on Aug 7, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
Until Fitz came along, Wilson was the only Cardinals player I’ve been jealous of – they have him and we don’t. Especially when he was playing almost every position besides DT in Pendergrast’s schemes. If he had started out on a more high-profile or better team, I have no doubt he’d regularly be mentioned in the Reed/Pollly class. And if I were drafting a fantasy team, the only reason I wouldn’t take him is that he’s approaching his age 30 seasons.
Ed and Troy play on teams known for their defense
A dub plays just a skosh (unsure if I spelled skosh correctly) under their levels without as much talent surrounding him. So he’s easily on their level Mr. Llama
by CardsDefense on Aug 7, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
"A dub plays just a skosh"
What?
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Aug 7, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Translation:
Adrian Wilson is only a bit less effective than Polamalu and Ed Reed, but when you take into account supporting cast he is on par with their level of play.
It seems a bit counter intuitive to start an argument admitting that someone is a bit worse, then state that because of something else not within their control that they are easily at the same level.
It makes sense to me
If he didn’t have to account for the deficiencies in coverage or open field tackling of his fellow back seven, he could do more.
That said, I don’t quite agree with it. Polamalu was used originally in precisely that manner. A rover, with some responsibility but ultimately they let him fly to the ball and make plays. I think that paid off at the most opportunistically, lucky times, but didn’t make him a better player. And Wilson would actually probably be under-utilized that way. Wilson is something of a playmaker, but he’s also a standout safety in the fundamentals, alone, and if you make him a rover there’s no one else to make up for his superior coverage skills to enable him. Well, Rolle seems to be becoming pretty decent, but the point stands.
There’s no shame in being inferior to Reed and Polamalu.
Urban Dictionary seems to like scoch and skoch, with the second being more prevelant.
But I don’t think it is an actual word, so a misspelling of it is not a huge deal, as long as you get a hard c sound into it.
A dub plays just a skosh
Makes absolutely no sense to me. What’s a dub? I’ve heard skosh (sp), my grandma says it from time to time.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Aug 8, 2009 4:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Serious?
A dub… A double-you… A W… Adrian Wilson… still with me?
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Aug 8, 2009 5:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, I don't keep up with the cutesy names of
random players from other teams. And if that was the case, “A-dub” would be more appropriate…still with me?
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Aug 8, 2009 6:30 AM PDT up reply actions
He couldn't find a spelling of the word skoch that included the sounds in the word.
Of course he screwed up A-dub. I had no problem translating for myself, sorry I didn’t translate it all for you. I assumed you could figure out that part.
Skoch means “a little,” like “Would you like more scotch? Just a skoch, no more.” In sports practically everyone with a “W” name gets shortened to “Dub.” Like “U-Dub” shortened from saying U-Double-U.
Yeah, I'm aware
I was just reading it wrong. I would have probably made the connection if he were a seahawk or a player I cared about.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Looking forward to another year of the Gators embarrassing your football teams.
by Wayward Llama on Aug 8, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't get it either.
Was wondering if it was a reference to curling or cricket or rugby or kwetluns or some other sport I don’t really watch. (Before you get Google-happy, no, kwetluns is not a real thing.)
Maybe Wilson is the 3rd best Safety in the NFL
And I’m not going to quibble with “A+” or “A” or “A-” or anything, but…..he doesn’t play close to Ed Reed. No one does. Reed is not only a future HOFer, but perhaps the greatest safety of all time. Be glad Wilson is two spots behind him, and the best safety in the NFC, because that is still a great accomplishment, but no one is close to Reed. Not to take anything away from your boy, but to say Wilson is on the same level as Reed is both ridiculous and insulting.
And I don’t give a flying crap about the Baltimore Ravens.
This is true.
Ed Reed is probably going to go down as the best zone safety ever.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Aug 7, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions
For once...
I do agree with a rival’s evaluation. Adrian Wilson is ELITE.
He is Kenny Easley to Troy P and Ed Reed’s Ronnie Lott notoriety.
Dude is a damn good safety, definitely among the best in the game today.
Please, for the LOVE OF GOD, stop suggesting next year's 1st round pick (or picks) be used for Taylor Mays and or a QB of the future. Let's just let the season unfold, people, and evaluate much deeper in the process!!!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Aug 8, 2009 2:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Gotta love Fooch
Again, we see that “unproven potential” and some mediorcre/average vets = B.
You’ve got to at least appreciate his enthusiasm, though. VanRam seems to be skipping out on a lot of these roundtables.
Can you blame him?
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Aug 8, 2009 4:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Ugh these are getting unreadable
Rams: To be done later.
49ers: Ranking way to high.
Seattle: A rankings thats a little harsh (not a bad thing).
Cardinals: A ranking thats pretty decent, maybe a little too leniant.
I don't know.
I think the 9ers should get a C or even a D maybe (truth be told I have no clue about their safety situation, but because I have no clue, I tend to think worse of them.)
Rolle and Wilson are pretty damn good. It’d be hard to find two safeties that are better, so a top 6 safety combo in the league. Combine Rashad Johnson as backup and I think the A grade is correct.
Russell is so bad, and Grant is playing out of position. I don’t know if there are 6 teams with a worse combo at safety, so I’d be fine with an F, but I guess we did alright in pass coverage in 2007. It just depends on how heavily you weight the most recent years.
I take it back, I've obviously heard of and seen Goldson.
I just don’t think he’s that good, especially at a pro level.
"He was an absolute ballhawk in training camp last year, but could not get past Mark Roman on the depth chart."
Dot dot dot.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
Reminds me of training camp descriptions of our PS WRs this time last year
Gotta love the training camp reports that glow about how great/improved/healed players are from the year before.
Indeed.
I don’t even understand why anyone would bring up training camp reports as a reason why a player is good. If that were the case, Courtney Taylor would become Brandon Marshall.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Aug 7, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Yep, we love Wednesdays Warriors
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Aug 7, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
There's nothing wrong with loving Wednesday Warriors
You just can’t expect them to play the same way on Sunday.
Nec spe nec metu not so much.
More like: Nec spe summa cum metu
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Aug 7, 2009 11:43 AM PDT reply actions
Well, another home-cooked meal.
The 49ers have lacked a great free safety for quite some time and Goldson has the potential to be that turnover machine in centerfield. The question remains whether he can stay healthy.
The question isn’t just health, it’s whether Goldson can be the turnover ‘machine’ a certain blogger dreams about.
Goldson played for the Washington Huskies where he played 43 games and recorded a total of 293 tackles, six interceptions, two forced fumbles and one sack.
In 19 games as a pro, Goldson notched 30 tackles and 3 passes defended.
I fail to see where health is the only question. Too much grading on a fan’s vision.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevon Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
Don't forget Goldson was a hard-hitting CB rather than a safety there.
In similar fashion to Rolle in Arizona, he could project to a killer FS. But I agree, the 49ers are hoping for a lot of potential to come through to be a quality team.
They are basically depending on just about everyone to take a magnificent leap in performance.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Aug 7, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
That's not why Fooch gave the QBs the grade
The QBs got the grade because the Niners only need C-grade play out of them and Fooch expects them to make a B-grade effort to perform at a C-grade level.
If Wilson is the 3rd best safety around
after Reed & Polamalu, that doesn’t mean he’s not an A+. He is, and he’s good in ways different than they are. He’s long been more consistent than Polamalu, even in his DPOY year, although Polamalu reached a new level altogether, this past year, without a lot of recognition for becoming even better.
Wilson as A+ I can support. I also like Michael Lewis, I don’t think Fooch is overselling him. He started out this good in Philly, but people thought it was because of Dawkins. Got burned and left town, but he’s a strong safety. He’s done well for SF. The other guy, though, keeps them from being a B, can’t just role the dice and gain a letter grade.
D is spot on for us. Deon Grant is good but half good, a good coverage safety and questionable tackler — the second time reading this through, I understand more about what has made him an abler tackler, particularly in 2007.
Definitely concur with the Arizona grade
I figured he’d underrate the group since he seems to rate pretty low, but cgolden got it right. There’s not a lot of teams with as good a pair of safeties as the Cardinals have.
Hawks is predictably low. Can’t be helped.
By this point, I’m just ignoring the San Fran grades.
Cutler, Manning, Warner, Rodgers, Shaub, and even Romo
Reading about Russell makes me think those guys are gonna have field days, respectively. Gah, i’ve gotta find some perspective hope soon.
Glenn Beck likes argument, but has a deap-seated hatred for logic.
If it makes you feel better,
Cutler’s only legitimate target is Greg Olsen
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Aug 7, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm a lil bit. *sniffle*
Thanks Llama.
Glenn Beck likes argument, but has a deap-seated hatred for logic.
But we made Isaac Bruce look like a superstar last year
Let’s hope we don’t do the same for Mr. Olsen.
I disagree.
Hester has actually turned into a receiver and could do quite well. With Cutler’s arm the deep route could be lethal. Matt Forte is going #1 in PPR leagues for a reason; he is very much a legit target. And WR Earl Bennett played with Cutler in college; he also figures to get some good work.
Forte is overrated as a receiving threat.
He received a bunch of dumpoff passes because Kyle Orton has a noodle arm and suddenly he’s going to be a legit threat that Cutler will look to throw to?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Aug 7, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Hester is crap as a WR.
His stone hands are the fail of him.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Aug 8, 2009 4:23 AM PDT up reply actions

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