Leroy Hill Out until Week Eight at Cowboys Stadium
by John Morgan on Sep 16, 2009 10:50 AM PDT
63 comments
Update: O'Neil details the severity of the injury.
Danny O'Neil is reporting via twitter that Leroy Hill will be out until November 1. The downside is evident. Seattle loses one of its very best defenders, and one of its few reliable pass rushers. The Seahawks face a difficult schedule in the coming weeks. Losing a wingman that can crush the run and screen pass does not help. From a pure talent standpoint, Seattle is a worse team.
The upside requires thought. Hill was a free agent entering 2009. At that time, and with Julian Peterson still signed, I advocated not signing Hill, but working a linebacker platoon consisting of Will Herring and David Hawthorne. Instead, Seattle signed Hill, but mercifully to a contract it could opt out of.
Will Herring will take over Hill's snaps. Herring is not Hill's equal as a run defender, open field tackler, or blitzer, but as we have saw on Sunday and have seen through the preseason, Herring is a much better pass defender. He is aware and agile and has excellent ball skills.
Seattle faces five teams between now and the time Hill is expected to return. San Francisco is a traditional offense, beyond traditional, outdated, but Indianapolis and Arizona are pass-first. Chicago is a vertical-style and Jacksonville is a grind `em out, rush-first offense. Herring could be a better matchup against Arizona and Indianapolis.
Could a team replace a near-Pro Bowl linebacker with a converted safety and improve? That's the experiment. Research indicates pass defense dwarfs run defense in importance. Losing Hill is a blow to Seattle's run defense, but if Herring is a superior pass defender, it also could be a net improvement to Seattle's defense. We'll see, and we'll know a lot more about the importance of Leroy Hill to the Seattle Seahawks after the next five weeks.
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Hill is one of our better defenders.
But at this point, if one of our 11 starters (not counting Trufant) had to get injured, I’d probably pick him. I guess Cole, but I kind of think of it as Tapp/Redding/Mebane/Kerney as the starting 4.
by LantermanC on Sep 16, 2009 10:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
that's a 3rd-down lineup, not a 1st-down lineup
That’s a great defensive lineup, I agree, and it worked well on some 2nd downs and mostly 3rd downs against the Rams. But I think Cole, Bryant or Terrill will be needed a lot against SF on 1st and 2nd downs. Cole is essential to what Bradley is doing with rotating the D linemen.
But I wold agree that losing Leroy isn’t quite as bad as losing Lofa or Curry would be at this point.
by Stevo's on Sep 17, 2009 3:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also felt there was upside here
But only for pass heavy teams, because I have seen Hill blow pass coverage a few times.
For run heavy, its obviously a loss.
by paul2 on Sep 16, 2009 10:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's see
SF – balanced?
Chicago – pass heavy now?
Indy – pass heavy
Jacksonville – run heavy
Arizona – pass heavy
So I guess just Jacksonville does it really hurt us (just purely speculative off the top of my head).
by LantermanC on Sep 16, 2009 11:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
SF and Chicago are run heavy.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Sep 16, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to say for Chicago since they have an adequate QB now.
33 rush attempts to 36 pass attempts, though with just one game it’s hard to say if they ran more because their passing game sucked, or if they passed more because their running game sucked.
Same for San Fran. I keep hearing about Shaun Hill opening things up, etc. 31 passes vs. 25 rushing attempts, though why would San Fran keep running when they averaged less than 1 ypc?
(Note: Anyone elses Firefox messed up? I had to go to IE to reply to a post.)
by LantermanC on Sep 16, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Firefox has been deranged since the last update.
by John Morgan on Sep 16, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My FF has been ok since the update
What’s it doing for you?
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Sep 16, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Running slow, crashing, not running video
by John Morgan on Sep 16, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mine too...
worst update ever… maybe it runs well on windows vista or something…
Mancrushed. Jake Locker for Heisman 2010.
by whiskey chainsaw on Sep 16, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The latest update of Firefox is absolutely butchering my system.
I’ve gone over to Safari because FF has been hogging too many resources.
by BrianL on Sep 16, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Try Opera or Chrome
For my part, I like them both better than FF anyway.
by The Ancient Mariner on Sep 16, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The new chrome seems like more of a resource hog than the previous version
But its still a lot faster than IE or FF on my netbook.
by ninjasocks on Sep 16, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A bit more, yeah
but still better than most.
by The Ancient Mariner on Sep 16, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really disappointed with FF's current resource footprint.
FF2 was probably as stable as any browser I’ve ever used. FF3 has been a terrible evolution of the browser.
by BrianL on Sep 16, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Friendly Fire
in MY case, usually gets me killed.
Glenn Beck likes argument, but has a deap-seated hatred for logic.
by Cheddar28 on Sep 16, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, let me rephrase:
Both teams have very talented running backs and could easily fall back on a rush-heavy offense and still do well.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Sep 16, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True.
I’m really interested to see if Gore is slowing down, or if Arizona’s run D is that good. Same with our D too though. Is our D that good, or is it just the Rams. Can’t wait for Sunday.
I just hope Cutler doesn’t ‘figure out’ that you’re not supposed to throw it into double coverage or risky situations until after week 3.
by LantermanC on Sep 16, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Injuries are going to happen to everyone.
I like that we had the trio of potentially-elite players at LB. That softens the blow. Also, having Hawthorne, Herring, Laury, and DD at our disposal helps. I’d imagine players other than Herring will also fill in the gaps left by Leroy. I think we’ll be okay, but I’m going to miss the brutal tackling of Hill and I expected some nice blitz-sacks from him. I don’t see us replacing Leroy’s blitzing when we were already sending Curry a lot. Thank God we have Tapp.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevan Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
by Misfit74 on Sep 16, 2009 11:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Initial reaction: F*&#(*^$##!!!!!!
I’m calming down, but this isn’t good news.
The bright side is great, but I’d still much rather have Hill in as the starter and sub Herring in for obvious passing downs.
Our next two games are against teams with very talented running backs. I hope Herring can step it up.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Sep 16, 2009 11:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Details on the injury
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Sep 16, 2009 11:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
press conference...
Other stuff from the press conferenc: Senecat was mentioned, Mora was noncommital as to whether its in the playbook now. :(
by paul2 on Sep 16, 2009 11:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well good
keep the element of surprise.
by John Morgan on Sep 16, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curious to see how this impacts Curry's playing time
Tats and Hill were already the nickel linebackers. Does Herring take over those snaps as well? With Hill in place, I figured we’d see Curry sooner rather than later due to Hill’s coverage abilities but Herring is supposed to be a much better cover linebacker. Does Mora become satisfied with Herring and Tats?
This also postpones my dream of seeing a front five on 3rd-and-20 of Curry-Tapp-Kerney-Bane-Hill.
by niko on Sep 16, 2009 11:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Seattle will play Herring over Curry unless Curry is struggling with the playbook.
by John Morgan on Sep 16, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That'd be my hope
But I was under the impression that the team was trying to limit Curry’s mental load early on, what with giving him snaps at the less mentally-taxing DE spot and choosing Hill as the nickel ’backer.
by niko on Sep 16, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leroy was out for most of Sunday's game, right
And we still shut down Steven Jackson (until he ripped off that 22 yard run near the end). I’m cautiously optimistic that we can shut down SF’s run game if we can contain their passing game.
by ninjasocks on Sep 16, 2009 11:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
8 In The Box
I would be surprised if the ‘Hawks don’t put 8 in the box all game long and dare Shaun Hill to beat them. Expect to see Jordan Babineaux up near the line of scrimmage a lot on Sunday.
by robbbbbb on Sep 16, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
x2
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevan Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
by Misfit74 on Sep 16, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But truthfully, wonder if we can't just handle the SF O-line w/ our base defense.
I watched the ARI/SF game yesterday and SF’s offensive line looked like dogshit. Horrible.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevan Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
by Misfit74 on Sep 16, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isaac Bruce tore us a new one last year
While Bulger is arguably a better QB than Hill, I think Hill has more weapons at his disposal which might make the secondary’s job harder. I hope the increased mass of our new D-line is enough to stop the SF run game, I’d rather have a little better pass coverage.
by ninjasocks on Sep 16, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hill scares the crap out of me.
I’ve (and other Seahawks fans) been so adamant about him not being so good, and 9ers fans have been so convinced that he could be the next Hasselbeck-type QB, that I really think that he’ll turn into a QB just to spit Seattle sports fans.
by LantermanC on Sep 16, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've watched Hill closely, and I can confidently say he's more or less crap.
He’d make a decent backup QB, but he’s no starter. He makes bad reads and often throws into double coverage rather than try to go for a 1 on 1 match-up deep. He’s a check-down machine. His DVOA was bad last season, his arm is marginally stronger than Chad Pennington’s, and even SF fans will tell you they are fine with him as the starter as long as he doesn’t have to, you know, pass.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Sep 16, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure I guess.
But I watched Brady fairly closely when he started out, and while I thought he could be an above average QB, I never thought he’d be in the discussion for greatest QB of all time or throw 50 tds in one season.
by LantermanC on Sep 16, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My fear is that DD Lewis sees too many snaps
There are worse fears to be sure. It’s heartening that the team kept Herring in the first place, indicating some commitment to his upside.
My fear, perhaps an irrational one given that Lewis’ release caught many of us by surprise, is that should Herring give up a couple of plays that he gets yanked for Lewis.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Sep 16, 2009 12:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
they basically dumped DD Lewis
So I doubt he would become favored suddenly.
by paul2 on Sep 16, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll see
The current batch of coaches has already shown they are willing to do things a little differently than the previous batch.
by ninjasocks on Sep 16, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sando on the NFC West Injury situation:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/5134/nfc-west-injury-situations-that-matter-18
The Seahawks can feel better about losing linebacker Leroy Hill for a few weeks after backup Will Herring flashed ability during the exhibition season and regular-season opener. It’s still unclear how well Herring might hold up over several games, however, and Hill was a much more violent tackler. The Seahawks could miss Hill against the 49ers’ power running game.
Seattle probably will not miss injured starting cornerback Marcus Trufant this week simply because the 49ers do not appear committed to a diversified passing attack.
Ouch. That’s a pretty harsh comment on the 9ers passing attack.
by ninjasocks on Sep 16, 2009 12:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Based on the Arizona game...
I thought the SF passing-game was poor to awful.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevan Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
by Misfit74 on Sep 16, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hill is a limited QB.
At times a good decision-maker, but mostly a poor thrower. I only saw a few well-thrown passes downfield in that game.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Jevan Snead, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling 6'2, 200, RB Jonathan Dwyer
by Misfit74 on Sep 16, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aww, I was really hoping
Crabtree would be signed by now
Just to see Curry smash him to bits over the middle
by rex92 on Sep 16, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how things would've turned out if we had picked him.
After TJ, I didn’t want him, but would there be this concern over money? Since he feels like he should be paid #5 pick money or something, and we would have given him #4 pick money if we had selected him.
Or does this whole thing indicate his true character anyways, and eventual problems would arise no matter what.
by LantermanC on Sep 16, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there may be a reason why he dropped so far
The extended contract hold-out may just be a symptom of larger character issues. Even if he got paid what he wanted, there may be issues with playing time, how much he got thrown the ball, getting along with teammates, etc.
by ninjasocks on Sep 16, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baby Baby T.O.
If there is such a thing
First Brandon Marshall, now Crabtree
by rex92 on Sep 16, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He probably would have been signed.
Because at #4, rather than #10 or so, he would have gotten the money that he was asking for.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 16, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's my fault, guys.
I posted a pic of me next to Hill signing my football on MySpace the day before the game, and now this happens.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Sep 16, 2009 1:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dammit, Frog!
Just make sure you don’t get within 100 feet of John Carlson.
by thebyron on Sep 16, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Brian Russell
Oh wait, screw that, go nuts!
Get a pic with Frank Gore if you can
by rex92 on Sep 16, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree. If anything happens to Carlson
I will erase you. That’s right:
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Sep 16, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are the center of the universe after all.
by abender20 on Sep 16, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't sense even a shred of sarcasm in this at all!
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Sep 16, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, balls!
Not good.
Sam Bradford, future Seattle Seahawk.
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 16, 2009 7:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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