One Final Thought on Matt Hasselbeck
by John Morgan on Sep 21, 2009 8:11 PM PDT
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PrintMatt Hasselbeck scrambling for the touchdown was brave. Matt Hasselbeck scrambling for the touchdown was foolish. The decision led directly to the injury. Now opinion is split perfectly in two. Two sides across a thin line that couldn't be more opposed. One sees a leader that put his team on his back and himself on the line to score a touchdown. One sees a leader that put his team on the line and himself on his back to score a touchdown. Sometimes you get burned by the risks you take and sometimes you get burned by the risks you don't take.
When I was still a kid, John Elway did this.
It is an emblematic moment in his career. "The Helicopter" converted a third and six in the red zone and continued a drive that put Denver ahead 24-17 in Super Bowl 32. The Broncos were 11 ½ point underdogs. There was a sense that Denver was hanging in a game it could get blown out of at any moment, but real, imagined or confabulated by me, it felt like after the dive, Denver was in it until the last snap. Of the moment, defensive lineman Mike Lodish said "When Elway, instead of running out of bounds, turned it up and got spun around like a helicopter, it energized us beyond belief." Shannon Sharpe agreed "When I saw him do that and then get up pumping his fist, I said, 'It's on.' That's when I was sure we were going to win." They did, and that moment will forever define Elway. It was fearless and reckless and worked.
I thought "The Helicopter" was foolish when I saw it. I thought Eli Manning should have checked down. Football is like that though. It straddles a line between the rational and the mythic. Seattle was dragging badly at the end of the second quarter. Its offense was sputtering and it was down ten points. The hometown crowd was electric. The defense was disorganized and its leaders hurt. The offense was disorganized and discouraged, and on a young and imported unit, there were not many leaders to look to. So Matt Hasselbeck took a chance and it backfired. The risk couldn't satisfy the reward so it was foolish. The team needed a spark, a moment from its leader that said "We're in this and we're going to win." And so it was brave, but maybe foolish and brave here are separated only by destiny. All day we have talked injuries, but wouldn't it have been nice to joke about how foolish Matt Hasselbeck was, but how "The Crawl" was awesome and game changing and how the Seahawks are 2-0 and how our brave quarterback put the team on his shoulders and declared to the NFL "The Seahawks are contenders again."
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Hmm....
Ironic I saw this today on AMC. Quite apt, whether you like the movie or not…
“Because in either game
life or football
the margin for error is so small.
I mean
one half step too late or to early
you don’t quite make it.
One half second too slow or too fast
and you don’t quite catch it.
The inches we need are everywhere around us.
They are in ever break of the game
every minute, every second.
On this team, we fight for that inch
On this team, we tear ourselves, and everyone around us
to pieces for that inch.
We CLAW with our finger nails for that inch.
Cause we know
when we add up all those inches
that’s going to make the fucking difference
between WINNING and LOSING
between LIVING and DYING." -Pacino, Any Given Sunday
Mancrushed. Jake Locker for Heisman 2010.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Sep 21, 2009 8:16 PM PDT reply actions
I think it was fuckin stupid...
live to play another day if you ask me. It was what? 2nd down, end of the first half, plenty of time, timeout(s) maybe, and you get yourself cracked in the back like that when you could’ve slid and been protected by the rules? Fuckin stupid. End of story.
And look how easily we scored on the next play.
it was a broken play. Matt needed to either run out of bounds or throw it away.
If it was the Superbowl I would love to see him try to get in. Week 2 I want him to be a little smarter.
NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 21, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
It could've been easy to score on that play
because San Francisco was expecting run because of those extra two yards, or because Seneca was in. Hard to say if it would’ve been that easy if it were 3rd and 4th.
agreed...
Completely agree with you Scruffy if this Game was a SB then I wouldn’t have minded him getting hurt to try and score.
With a semi meaningless game two, I know we would have been the leaders of the NFCW if we won but that doesn’t mean anything this early…
I ROCK out with my HAWK out, therefore I am....
I think everyone's tired of arguing back and forth,
but I’m not sure ‘end of story’ is a convincing way to argue.
It was the end of my story..
would you prefer that I just use a period instead?? Because if you want you can consider ‘end of story’ as a big ole fat period.
They teach QBs to slide for a reason.
i know Mora said he could not ask Matt to not dive head first in that situation, but I don’t believe Mora for a minute. He’s just backing up his QB during a tough time, and he’s being a good players’ coach.
Matt knows full well that every training camp he has ever attended, coaches have taught him and the other quarterbacks to slide. And its not for fun. Its because they expect quarterbacks to slide and avoid injury for the good of the team.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Oh yeah, because Matt has a crystal fucking ball and can tell he’s going to take a shot to the back while on the ground and break a rib.
What exactly would sliding have prevented? He would have taken the same shot, probably directly in the sternum or in the chin.
by Kevin M Smith on Sep 22, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Willis would have drawn a penalty flag and then it would have been even easier to score.
Another argument for sliding in that situation. The Hawks would also have gotten a brand new set of downs. But I think Willis would’ve pulled up, QB slides can’t be more telegraphed. You could see Willis looking at him as he was approaching waiting to see what Matt was going to do, he made the wrong choice and Willis lit his dumbass up. Fuck a crystal ball, he’s got all kind of coaches and trainers tellin him to slide in that situation. You don’t need that fake Jamaican broad in the psychic hotline to tell you you’re gonna get cracked if you don’t slide. Yes you can still get hit when you do slide but at least you get a 15yd penalty and a new set of downs.
You don't know that
“he’s got all kind of coaches and trainers tellin him to slide in that situation”
A penalty doesn’t take away an injury.
by Kevin M Smith on Sep 22, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
But Willis wouldn't want to draw the penalty.
If Matt slides, Willis probably pulls up, or at least tries to and lessens the blow.
I seem to remember him getting hit on the earlier run play that he did slide on, anyway
I don’t have the game to rewatch, so I may be remembering wrong, but I seem to remember him getting hit on the slide and that it possibly could’ve been a penalty.
by B.B.Finnegan on Sep 22, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I think the bigger point is that while yes, it was a brave thing to do
He didn’t need to try and get the TD there. Regardless of whether can expect to get hit, it’s a stupid decision. Generally, unless it’s a QB sneak, an immobile QB diving head first is a bad idea.
Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.
by BrettJMiller on Sep 22, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
If you press the 'up' button, you can see who someone was replying to.
It’s confusing sometimes to tell who someone is replying to, but BJM was replying to Kevin M Smith’s comment.
Patrick Willis right?
97% of the Linebackers in the league wouldn’t have gotten there. Hasselbeck would have slid in for the score.
"Superhero like even"
Well if Willis didn't hit him
The 3 other guys standing at the goal line would of.
NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 22, 2009 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions
If that scramble had worked out
I’m pretty sure that I would have been thrilled with the result and simultaneously horrified with the process.
Simple to find out.
Were you horrified with the run he had earlier in the drive?
3rd and 6 at SEA 34 (2:28) (Shotgun) M.Hasselbeck up the middle to SEA 41 for 7 yards (M.Lewis).
I don't remember the play.
I thought because it showed someone getting the tackle that there was no slide. But I guess it could just be the closest defensive player forcing him to slide who gets the tackle.
But more to the point
I’m horrified every time Matt scrambles because he doesn’t scramble well.
Exactly
Runs and slides in open spaces are definitely more warranted than a red zone dive…
I ROCK out with my HAWK out, therefore I am....
I'm curious about something,
I wonder, of the two camps, where the majority of people who played football through, say high school vs. people who did not, fall? From talking to the people I know; those who played have a more “no time to react”, “do what it takes to win” perspective. And those who had not played some level of organized football have a more pragmatic take on his actions. Perhaps it’s just me, but I’ve found it interesting. (I’m not arguing one way or another here, in any shape.)
I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.
That could very well be true. Deep down, even the most pragmatic of us want our team's players to extract every possible fraction of a yard.
If it’s Ben Obomanu diving for the end zone, putting his body on the line, we’d demand it. If it’s the last play of game with the division on the line, we’d expect it. While he surely didn’t have time to consider it in this manner, Hasselbeck put his own health on the table for a chance at a yard that he didn’t desperately need. If this was some dunderhead with a history of strapping up like Terminator and getting on his hog, no big deal. I expect better management of risk from Hass.
oh c'mon Dukeshire, take a stand! ;)
“I’m not arguing one way or the other”.. pfffft!
I played college ball until it felt like my body was one massive bruise that never quite healed until the season was over. One year and I was done and started hitting the books instead.
Bottom line is this. You do what your coaches teach you. Coaches teach quarterbacks to slide. That is what they are trained to do. The reason is because, in the long run, it results in more wins. That’s why players are supposed to do what coaches tell them to do. Matt screwed up.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
agreed
I played pop warner and High school and I know that fi the QB has the ability and health then go for it when it the game is on the line but when you have had a bad previous year because of injury and it is only the second quarter you take the safe approach and slide.
That is why QBs are taught to slide because the risk vs reward for a dive is not in the QB’s favor.
I ROCK out with my HAWK out, therefore I am....
Gotta respect Hass's competiveness.
He went for it man. I was cheering him on when he dove. I thought if anything it got them closer to the goaline to set up a Run/Pass situation for 3rd down. That’s why Seneca was able to throw that TD. If Hass didn’t get them that close I think it would’ve been a predictable throwing situation and we may have had to kick another FG! Injuries are part of the sport. At least he got hurt going all out!
Better to burn out than to fade away
The other side of the coin is Shaun Alexander. In his last couple of years, Shaun tried so hard to preserve his body that he wasn’t able to play at a competitive level in the NFL.
While I’d rather that Matt not have made that play, I’m glad that he’s not the happy-footed, gun-shy player he could be.
Mike Wahle(OG), Walter Jones(LT), Chris Spencer(C), Marcus Trufant(CB), Deion Branch(WR), Sean Locklear(OT), Brandon Mebane(DT), Leroy Hill(LB), Lofa Tatupu(LB), Josh Wilson(CB), Justin Griffith(FB), Matt Hasselbeck (QB)
I'm not so sure what you mean by sel-preservation was the key to him not playing at a competitive level?
I thought it was his injuries that slowed him down? That and just losing a step due to age (along with the loss of Steve Hutchingson, something our o-line has never recovered from). Or are you arguing that being too afraid to fight for an extra yard, and too willing to go down on first contact was what made him an ineffective RB?
In 2007
Shaun had a tendency to fall down before he tackled and to fall backwards instead of forward. When he didn’t have a gaping hole or the goal line in sight, he didn’t seem to fight for yardage. Shaun was never a power back, but even a 2006-era SA had more fight in him than that.
While I’d agree that the loss of Hutch reduced his productivity, I’d also argue that his fear of contact kept from getting the extra yard pretty consistently.
Mike Wahle(OG), Walter Jones(LT), Chris Spencer(C), Marcus Trufant(CB), Deion Branch(WR), Sean Locklear(OT), Brandon Mebane(DT), Leroy Hill(LB), Lofa Tatupu(LB), Josh Wilson(CB), Justin Griffith(FB), Matt Hasselbeck (QB)
Hutch comment was made in jest.
I kind of think that he fell over a lot before he was injured, but it could be true that he was even more interested in self-preservation after his injury.
He's going to be gun shy now.
Remember when he came back from his knee injury? And every time someone was near his legs he would hop in the air.
NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 22, 2009 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I remember him approaching the pile
turning around and then sitting down on the turf, before he was within a foot of a defender. I didn’t expect him to move the pile, but it would have been nice to see him try to push on it for a bit.
Mike Wahle(OG), Walter Jones(LT), Chris Spencer(C), Marcus Trufant(CB), Deion Branch(WR), Sean Locklear(OT), Brandon Mebane(DT), Leroy Hill(LB), Lofa Tatupu(LB), Josh Wilson(CB), Justin Griffith(FB), Matt Hasselbeck (QB)
that's the best reason for sitting him this week.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Matt Hasselbeck quote today:
“I have definitely felt worse,” he said. “What I have is a painful injury, but I definitely have woken up on a Monday feeling worse.” “I’m absolutely hoping to play [next Sunday], absolutely,”
This guy is an absolute warrior. I love him. He will have his revenge.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
I don't think anyone would ever argue
that Matt is not tough. He’s always been lacking in common sense, but he’s also always been a tough guy. Part of the reason we love him I guess.
He is tough.
I also am hoping that he goes into broadcasting when he is done, or even sideline reporting. I want him with a mic in his hand.
While I appreciate his toughness
If he ends up playing, he’s going to be limited, and he’s not going to be, or play, at 100%.
As we’ve seen in the past, he plays quite poorly while injured. Not to mention if he gets hit or sacked with that kind of injury, just once, he’ll be reeling in pain. (I’m sure John will call this conjecture, but I believe it’s a safe assumption).
Call me crazy, but I’d rather use this entire week of practice to cater the offense to Seneca and have him start. That sounds terrible to most, but I think our offense is far more flexible and could easily incorporate a QB such as Seneca and play to his strengths.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
probably right.
It really sounds like Hasselbeck may practice this week and choose to play. But I cringe when I think of Matt forcing the ball and wincing when he throws. He still hasn’t gotten over his desire to force the ball into coverage this year. Against the Bears, that would be our undoing.
I’m also not looking forward to watching a Seneca-led offense. Three hours of flashy footwork and incomplete passes on third down. Ugh.
I think the only answer this week will be our offense linemen standing up and playing like Men. Otherwise we will be toast.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Don't forget staring down receivers.
NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 22, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
His strengths are different than Matt's
hence why he struggles with a playbook that’s tailored to Matt’s strengths.
If they decide to start Seneca, they’ll change the playbook to leverage Seneca’s relative strengths (running, scrambling, arm strength, etc).
I’m not terribly excited about it, but I think he’ll do better than he did last year in Holmgren’s offensive scheme. Will that be better than a healthy Matt? Highly unlikely.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
maybe, but this years offense can't execute ANY offensive scheme yet.
At least with Matt, they have a chance to begin executing what they’ve spent several months practicing. In any case, Matt or Seneca, I would not expect our offensive line to be able to execute any scheme very well before mid-season.
Hasselbeck-style heroics would give us a chance to beat a good defense like Chicago.
Injured Hasselbeck-syle mistakes, or Seneca-style mistakes, both give us a good chance to end up wearing an ass-hat against Chicago.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
They won't have Urlacher
They more likely are still a good defense, but they haven’t done anything special yet this year.
by jacobstevens on Sep 22, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
My hunch is...
He’ll play when Walt plays. I cant see them putting him in with a third string LT there if he’s not 100% and able to take a few sacks.
2 out of 3 doctors called it a bruised rib.
I think if he plays it will be a none issue, come on people you are pulling the eject cord far to quickly.
I think you start Hasselbeck, but give the Bears a heavy dose of the run and Senna-Cat.
"Superhero like even"
A bruised rib is never a non-issue
Especially seeing Matt’s past performance while playing injured.
The demise of the Broncos in '09 is our future. Pray hard.
by Nick Andron on Sep 22, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt's always been a warrior, and a bit of an early game/season stresscase.
I’m not surprised he did it, he was probably feeling the rush of a pretty good drive and sensing the turnaround.
But it was a dumb move.
I think it was just one of those moments when age catches us moving a bit slower...
than we thought. I think Matt took off, made the decision to cross the line thinking he’d score or be pretty close. When he actually crossed the line he realized that he wasn’t moving near as fast as he thought relative to the defense. By that time he recognized that he wasn’t going to score, but with his body weight leaning forward a slide wasn’t really an option. Matt looked like he was trying to get on the ground with a dive, a la Isaac Bruce. He just got popped. Nobody’s fault. No blame to go around. It’s just a violent game.
Those of us over 30 have probably all experienced a similar phenomenon. You’re playing basketball, there’s a loose ball and you’re trying to track it down. You feel like you’re flying until you notice some young punk sailing past you and getting the ball. Now you’re out of position thinking, “a few years ago no way I get beat to that ball.”
Hass has generally been an effective scrambler/runner throughout his career. That’s not just the Washington game talking. Recall he spent a little time on Green Bay’s KO coverage team in the preseason early in his career. He’s athletic. Unfortunately, sometimes the only way you know that you can no longer do something you used to be able to do is to try it and fail. We’re just seeing a guy get old.
If you’re lucky, it’ll happen to you too.
Matt got an unfortunately painful lesson in his own limitations. I don’t blame him for taking off. He thought he could score. Three years ago I have little doubt he would have picked up the right momentum.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
... and scored.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
....sigh
Not this again.
Clean hit and totally called for.
NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 22, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Clean hit. More than called for..
as a defender you see the most protected dude on the field out there runnin around like he doesn’t have respect for the speed and nastiness of your defense and to make matters worse he is too dumb to slide and take the out provided for him by the league. Please. Anybody in Patrick Willis’ situation would have licked their chops and brought the lumber. I know I would have.
was it legal? sure.
but I’m still a Seahawks fan and want to see Willis on his ass 50 times next time we play them.
Better?
Legal
Any Linebacker would love to take a shot like that on a QB and they are very few and far between, and being a defensive player in my younger years I say it was clean. It is purely Hasselbeck’s fault for not thinking about the consequences of that dive.
I ROCK out with my HAWK out, therefore I am....
I think it's a rule that if a guy is on the ground, you just tap him unless he's trying to get up.
When a WR lays out for a catch, the defensive player doesn’t tackle him unless he’s trying to get up, usually they just tap him to show that a tackle was made when a knee was on the ground.
But what Willis does was try to tackle Hasselbeck. And when Matt dove, Willis was already in the process of lunging for the tackle.
Because Willis had to stop Matt's momentum. Otherwise he would of slid into the endzone.
Matt was diving for the score – Not diving to get down.
Do I have to make a god damn image sequence of this play for people to realize this?
NEEDS MORE FREEDOM!
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 22, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
if Lofa had done that to Shaun Hill I would have cheered by ass off
I’m not proud of that, but football is a rough sport.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
You are absolutly right don't trip.
Some of these cats on here act like they just started watching football.
Yes, because all arguments are clearly one sided,
and any person who disagrees with you should have their character or football knowledge questioned.
Willis could have just as easily been hurt on that play as well. Going low can be painful on linebackers as well. If he came up just a bit short, that’s his shoulder going into the dirt and his collarbone getting cracked.
I don’t see anyone ripping Willis for taking a stupid pointless shot, legal or not.
by Kevin M Smith on Sep 22, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
It was a split second decision by Matt
His team was behind, his first instinct was ‘go for the score.’ I can’t fault the guy for that. It’s not like he had weeks to debate the issue and come up with a risk/reward analysis complete with charts and graphs. He’s just an average QB anyway, what’d ya expect from him?
Agree with Kevin Smith
Kevin you said it earlier when if Matt slides and Willis still hits him he’d take it on the sternum or the chin. And we get what…a penalty on Willis for a late hit and they move the ball from the 3 to the 1…and who knows what would have happened to Matt. I know alot of QB’s couldn’t take a hit to the head or chest without being injured (Ask Trent Green). Enough with this garbage he should have slid. He wouldn’t slide into the end zone, the ball is downed where his knee first hits the ground and that’s where the ball is spotted.
No one is saying he should have slid for a touch down
and you don’t know what would have happened if he slid. The rule is there to protect quarterbacks and more often than not it does it’s job. Theres no reason to think that on that play Willis would have laid an illegal hit and seriously injured Matt, there is every reason to think that diving head first and exposing his bad back could end in an injury.
I would bet the coaches have addressed this with Matt in private...
but they will never admit it publicly.
Matt screwed up. He didn’t do what his coaches taught him to do – slide. I’m guessing that in private meetings his coaches have made that clear to him. But in public, they will support their team captain.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
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