Pete Carroll Bores Me
Site hits have been up lately. Perhaps people are anticipating another angry tirade. I could record myself swearing like a child again. That would be welcome. The market for opinion is robust and if one can keep their output up, it minimizes standards for process, accuracy and intelligence.
Here's the thing: I don't know how successful Pete Carroll will be and I don't know how to know. It's hard enough to evaluate an established NFL coach. This time last year, I didn't know what kind of coach Jim Mora would make. He had supporters and detractors and facts to support either. A few people thought the Seahawks would succeed in Mora's first year before declining over the next two seasons, because Mora's Atlanta Falcons succeeded in his first year and declined over the next two seasons. Surprisingly, Mora was not in total control over the innumerable variables that produced that performance in Atlanta.
Seattle would not win a Super Bowl if it hired Bill Cowher. It wouldn't draft a great quarterback if it hired Mike Shanahan. It didn't reach the NFC Championship under Mora. It won't become a dynasty because of Pete Carroll.
Mora didn't fail because his team failed. He was fired because his team failed, but he didn't injure Matt Hasselbeck, end Walter Jones career, put Lofa Tatupu on IR, turn Marcus Trufant into a penalty machine or cut off Patrick Kerney's arms. Mora didn't make the 2009 Seattle Seahawks bad. He made them worse.
He needlessly lost talent. He eventually lost his team. I could look at each of Mora's coaching decisions in context and evaluate how and why they succeeded or failed. It wasn't until about a month before his firing that I became confident he wasn't a good head coach.
Mora had to define himself and so will Carroll. What he accomplished at USC will not translate to the pros. One needs only to consider Nick Saban to see that the ability to run a successful college program and the ability to run a successful pro team are not the same.
Saban finished 15-17 as an NFL head coach. He inherited a loser, stumbled onto the right side of .500 in his first season, ran out virtually the exact same quality of team his second season, but suffered various kinds of bad luck, finished 2006 6-10 and left the Dolphins to return to college. Saban bookended his short and unsuccessful time in Miami with a national championship at LSU in 2003 and a national championship at Alabama in 2009-10.
Saban is the first coach since 1936 to win a national championship at two different programs. That feat puts him in the discussion for greatest college coach of our era. He isn't a brilliant mastermind, but certainly knows something about winning at the amateur level. Whatever that is, it didn't follow him to Florida, and whatever caused him to fail in Miami didn't follow him to Alabama.
Carroll can not import winning. Whatever allowed him to win at USC won't translate to Seattle. That doesn't mean he'll fail. That doesn't mean he'll succeed. Pete Carroll's collegiate career doesn't tell us anything about how he'll fare as an NFL coach. Neither do the careers of Saban, Spurrier, Kiffin or Petrino.
Pretty bland.
I guess we'll just have to wait and watch what Carroll does and evaluate his decisions rather than his reputation, hype, type, tresses and tan.
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Yes, and how will the new GM work with Carroll?
Carroll wanted the Coach and President jobs (which makes no sense). Instead he got Coach with the agreement that he and the new GM will “collaborate” on personnel matters. Is that going to work? Who is this new GM who wants to collaborate with Pete Carroll on personnel matters? And will they have to compromise in who they can hire for GM?
A lot of guys can coach. Pete Carroll was a good DC before he was a head coach in the NFL. That convinced me he can coach.
How will this team be rebuilt, by whom, and is this bass-ackwards hiring plan going work? Or will it come back to bite Leiweke in the ass? That’s what I’m wondering.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Let the guy coach, have his hand in the "groceries," and assemble his staff.
I feel like once the GM is hired we will have a better idea of where the franchise is going. I think the draft is going to be the most telling part about whether or not the Pete Carroll experiment will work. I hope they pick winners.
just heard this about Carroll and Jimmy Clausen
Pete Carroll recruited Clausen for USC before the kid went to Notre Dame, according to Cowherd on espn. He prepared his team to play against Clausen three times.
Not that I’ve heard he wants Clausen, I don’t know. But Carroll has a unique view of a lot of college talent as compared to NFL scouts. It will be interesting to see how that plays out during the next draft or two.
Ultimately, Carroll is likely to succeed or fail on a number of factors, but none more important than who he drafts at the QB position in the next year or two.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
I heard it too. I hope he doesn't waste a 1st rounder on Clausen.
Somebody should tell Carroll about Rick Mirer.
by Trojan Knight on Jan 12, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
I'm calling this Mirer's Law.
Any quarterback taken within the first ten picks of a draft will inevitably be compared to Rick Mirer, regardless of actual performance, skill, or ability.
But they went to the same school, so that makes them the same!!!
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 12, 2010 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
also more concerned about other things
Like we have talented players that are not getting the system down, whether it be zone blocking or assignments or scheme. We also have veterans that aren’t disciplined. We also have bad playcalling. We also have some big holes due to injury. If ANY of these areas are fixed we WILL be significantly better, I don’t care if pee-wee herman is coach.
honestly one of my favorite write ups on this site to date
the apathetic middle ground opinion is perfectly fine when justified.
I'm from the UK
Lots of pictures of breasts does the job there.
Excellent
Watch the site hits go through the roof.
by JamesMurphy on Jan 12, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
I think it's
“baby you make me wish I had 3 hands!” or something like that.
by DJ C-Raig on Jan 12, 2010 1:12 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Pete Carroll = Jim Mora + Street Cred
PC’s D http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/43_under_blitz_schemes.html is pretty near the same as what Mora & Gus said they were trying to do last season, with their ‘WCD’. Keep 8 in/near the box and attack, attack, attack!!! Mora & Gus were T2/4-3 Over and PC is 4-3 Under. Would not be surprised if Gus is retained as DC. On the offense, Bates = Knapp. WCO, ZBing with strong emphasis on the run.
The difference between these two staff is cred. Next season, PC is gonna have to be seen by the players in the locker room as the strong man in the room. Mora lost whatever presence (as ‘the man’) he had when he first started, talking about taking the Lombardi around to the Hawks supporters (or some such thing) then immediately turned to TR and begged TR to let him do it, asking if it would be OK with Tim. Weak. PC has to be seen as the man. The players have to know that if they don’t continuously please PC that they’re out. That PC is gonna stay, and any player, from the top to the bottom is not gonna win in any contest of wills with their coach. They have to see that they (the players) have to give better than their play of the last two years or they’re out.
Whoa.... 008klm?
The same one from that “other site”. If so, good to see you again.
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
Here's my problem with the hire
and it has nothing to do with Pete Carroll, and it could be completely unfounded. However DeCosta’s withdrawal from consideration for the job may imply otherwise.
Having a strong GM is more important than having a good coach. At the end of the day, talent wins 90% of the time, and bad head coaches will still ocassionally win the Super Bowl (Brian Billick comes to mind). Now that a big name like Carrell is the coach, it hurts our GM search for a few reasons:
- The GM doesn’t have the ability to chose a coach that he’s philosophically aligned with.
- Carroll will most likely have more power than most coaches in the league, which dilutes the GM’s power.
- Any potential turnaround by the team will be viewed more as Carroll’s doing, more so than the GM.
- Seattle has a dog-and-pony feel to it right now with the way the entire situation was handled. I feel like a Redskins fan and I’m pretty uncomfortable with it. I’m guessing most potential GMs would be as well.
Don't agree
Need a combo HC + GM http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/02/nfl-pro-football-business-sportsmoney-football-values-09-managers.html that work together great. Decosta wasn’t ever going to be A Seahawk GM. He was using interest from other organizations to improve their request for more $ from BAL, just like SD’s LG (Dielman?) came to SEA and turned down more money, but got an increase from SD. Heckert wasn’t coming here either. Hawks need Tim Lewis, Ruston Webster, or whomever the Hawks FO decides on to work with PC. PC will make twice the money that the GM will. Like PHI, let the Hawks have a stronger HC and an assistant GM, to work together with Idzik. Hawks have good personnel, they just have to get working together with a structured working environment that allows maximum information flow and feedback. If the GM can’t get the talent needed for PCs schemes, then the GM has to give PC talent options for alternative schemes.
This is total crap.
How am I supposed to seem knowledgeable and in the mix if I don’t have a solid, well thought out position to plagiarize? Sure, sure, patience and measured responses are fine. But how am I supposed to plagiarize that??
by somethingwitty on Jan 11, 2010 10:11 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
This is incredibly OT, but I don't know how to make a fanpost..
So I’ll reply to myself to bury it a bit. A quote from the Browns SBN Blog:
“Thoughts: Hopefully he (Brady Quinn) doesn’t need surgery! Either way, it might be moot if Holmgren is able to lure Matt Hasselbeck to the Browns.”
by somethingwitty on Jan 11, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
I hereby submit
That Chris Pokorny is, quite possibly, the worst evaluator of current/future quarterback potential in the blogosphere.
by somethingwitty on Jan 11, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
if Holmgren is able to lure Matt Hasselbeck to the Browns
This would be yet another reason for Seahawk fans to love Mike Holmgren!
What? No SOUL?
by mrcoffee1969 on Jan 12, 2010 6:54 AM PST up reply actions
Act like the wise old man
lecturing your friends on the need for patience to see how good the person will be. It’s not trendy, but wise friends will recognize your wisdom and you will look smart and sagely.
Now with more lemon bars!
Apathy is pretty easy to plagerize
You don’t even have to do anything!
by B.B.Finnegan on Jan 11, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
I once asked a player of mine if he was ignorant, or just apathetic.
He said, “Coach, I don’t know, and I don’t care.”
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 12, 2010 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
Well said John
I absolutely agree that his success in USC won’t translate how much he’ll do good in the pros. But he is 33-31 as an NFL coach which is a respectable record IMO. All the bashing I hear of him sounds like he only won 2 games in the NFL but he took the Pats to two straight playoff appearances. Pete Carroll has my full support and we should all support him in the long run.
I like Pete Carrol
I like his easy demeanor during sideline interviews. I like that he’s had big success in college. I like that he’s had two stints in the pros and one of em included playoff appearances and a playoff win. I like that he was a good defensive coordinator. I like that he has a history with the Oregon Ducks. Beloved in all the Pacific Northwest those Ducks. But mostly I like that he wants a third chance at the NFL and has been thinking about it for nine years. I’ll bet he feels very ready.
And Love that he chose the Seattle Seahawks of his own valishion.
Now lets get healthy, draft some impact linemen on both sides of the ball and maybe a future star QB and lets get rocking.
by Emperor_Doom on Jan 11, 2010 10:39 PM PST reply actions
"Beloved in all the Pacific Northwest those Ducks."
WHAT!?!?!?! I’d rather eat my own vomit than cheer for the fu— er, ducks.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 12, 2010 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
Indeed
Could be the most questionable perception I’ve read in a week. In the Seattle area there’s hate for the Ducks that (according to multiple people I’ve asked) cannot be explained. It just is so.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I was joking about the ducks
Though I love them and bleed Green and Gold (and black and white and gray…) I have also lived much of my life in Seattle and various other points in Washington. My high school friends who share my love of Seahawks and M’s do not share my love the the webfoots down south. In fact, they hate them with a burning passion. I am also a Trailblazer for life but feel the pain of the loss of the Supersonics. My anger over the Sonic sitch is the reason I don’t drink Starbucks. (Also because it’s over priced and tastes burnt.) So I am a PNW fan of sports but when inner NW rival time comes along then suddenly defeating the Fuskies is all I want. (vote us out of the Rose Bowl before I was born will you?) Six glorious seasons of beating on the Dogs. Only 19 more to go to tie the series.
I need to remember not to put jokes in my posts cause then no one discusses the actual points I’ve made.
by Emperor_Doom on Jan 12, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
Keep in mind...
USC may as well be a pro football team as far as exposure, pressure and expectations go. Second (third?) largest media market in the US. Obviously, it there are drastic mechanical differences. But as someone mentioned above, he’s got a unique perspective on alot of the QB talent in this draft, and if the chips fall right, he’s the best man in the NFL to make the proper evaluation of all the Pac-10
guys we’re gonna see come out this year and next (Locker, cough, cough).
by THolt on Jan 12, 2010 1:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Locker doesn't need evaluation
if he has a good season next year… GOOD… not even great.
He’s the #1 qb off the board and possibly the #1 pick overall.
(First hymen breaking post on FG)
Hey guys. I love the Seahawks. Period, from day one of the franchise. Seen good days and bad years. Still a fan. I’ve been reading this blog(?) for awhile and very much enjoy the wit and football knowledge of the folks who write in. (whats a lemon bar?) I do not have the encyclopedic knowledge of the sport that most of you guys obviously do and am quite sure I never will. So mote it be. I agree with JM that every thing said and done by PC up to this point means squat. Give the guy a chance to do HIS thing. He’s done credibly well so far even in the volcano crucible known as the NFL ( not for long ). So hey, throw him a bone already. I also would like to commend this site for not being the playground for namecalling idiot site that seems to be prevelant elsewhere. And where have all the recievers gone? Man could we use a man with some grit on this team. ( ala Steve Largent ) Anyway, love the site and maybe i’ll have something intelligent to add once in a while. Or so idiotic as to be amusing. PRAISE GOD and go Seahawks!
Looks like a Super Bowl winning coach to me
by Seahawksfan23 on Jan 12, 2010 7:39 AM PST up reply actions
Looks like Owen Wilson in 20 years to me.
by DrunkAmerican on Jan 12, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
.
Owen Wilson also hates Owen Wilson.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 12, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
That is the most inappropriate punctuation I've seen in a long time.
by DrunkAmerican on Jan 12, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
Danny O'Neil just coined the nickname "Wizard of Hawks" for our new coach
so I’m pretty sure that was Pete Carroll that made that post.
by jacobstevens on Jan 12, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
Now that we know Carroll is just the HC and not GM/President/Czar/Chairman/Dictator/etc
Quite frankly it is boring. It’s just not as important as who the next GM is.
Seahawks giving new coach 'operational duties'
“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010768975_apfbnseahawkscarrollsroles.html
SEATTLE —
New coach Pete Carroll will also have “operating duties” with the Seattle Seahawks.
Those were the words of team chief executive officer Tod Leiweke (LIE-wik-ee) on Monday night, after Carroll signed his contract to become Seattle’s eighth coach in 34 years.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Jan 12, 2010 12:48 AM PST up reply actions
The potential impact...
…his schemes have on existing personnel are extremely important though, as is his influence; e.g. telling Lofa that dropping a few pounds so he loses those t-Rex arms may help… An axiom to live by: one cannot change and entire roster in a reasonable amount of time, but schemes can be overhauled in a couple of months. How many games did we lose because we were crushed in the first quarter and just said “fuck it?” Play calling
and, more importantly, base formations matter.
by THolt on Jan 12, 2010 2:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Trying to look on the bright side . . .
How do people here feel about Ken Norton Jr coming along as LB coach? I must say that pairing KNJ with Curry is something I am excited to see play out . . .
Anton Chigurh for GM!
How do people here feel about Ken Norton Jr coming along as LB coach?
Love it.
What? No SOUL?
by mrcoffee1969 on Jan 12, 2010 6:57 AM PST up reply actions
But he has no success with linebackers!
(I kid, I kid. Norton would be bullets, and I’d love him to get his hands on Curry.)
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 12, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
Go 3-4
and let the freak wreak havoc. Would our personell support that? Puts some more athletes on the field.
by THolt on Jan 12, 2010 2:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Go 3-4 Would our personell support that?
I believe we have the linebackers in place that could do it, and in Mebane the NG as well.
Not real sure about the ends.
What? No SOUL?
by mrcoffee1969 on Jan 13, 2010 7:03 AM PST up reply actions
Jackson isn't a bad set up there...
Nor is Redding, actually.
I was thinking something very drastic and non-traditional though. What if we get an absolute beast NT-type. I know Mebane isn’t traditional 3-4 DE ht, but I wonder if he could slim down a little and slide outside and be an unblockable terror…
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 13, 2010 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
I can't wait for the first time he has a team meeting before practice...
Then he pulls a prank on Curry for assaulting a rookie, caught on tape bull rushing him, before telling the team they’re going BOWLING.
The look on their faces will be priceless
Pete's nose is decidedly catty-whampous (?) in that pic above.
How’s that for exciting?
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
I like PC, but I am bothered by the process that brought him here
I don’t like how they, evidently, left Mora out there hanging when they were doing a coaching search. Thats not how you deal with people, you should be on the up and up.
I think most would agree, get the GM then the coach. I will give you that this time it is probably the coach that will be the leader and have the vision for the team, the GM will just manage the vision. That might be because they needed to do that to get PC, that they believe in him that much, or they just didn’t like the GM candidates that were willing to coming to Seattle. Either way, it can be successful, but we don’t even really know if that is how it will run.
BL, I don’t think the Seahawks approached this transaction in an honorable, or efficient way.
But I still like PC as the coach.
Hated the decision at first but have warmed up to it over the weekend.
This was a Paul Allen decision.; Cleaning the slate which is what alot of people, myself included wanted. He’ll come with a better scheme, a better offensive coordinator and a better eye for talent. He has experience at this level but before he had no say in operations. This may be a lot better than it feels at the first thought of the hiring a collage coach. I like this much better than when I heard Jim Mora was going to replace Mike Holmgren. Just as long as nobody starts saying 10 & 6 and playoffs like last year. Aint gonna happen; even after we draft 2 linemen in the 1st round. hah
yea dude
I'm sure a lot of your traffic is from USC fans/alum
I’m a big fan of Pete from USC. He’s a great leader with credibility. Who else would you want the top dog to be? He’s mostly mired in defense and lets his coaches do their job. So the offense will mostly hang on Bates shoulders. Bates has been under Gruden and Shannahan so I wouldn’t worry much there. (as long as Cutler isn’t your QB)
Getting 5 wins out of the Hawks last year, I imagine you’d be more optimistic as this is surely and upgrade from the top down for you guys.
Good luck next year old rivals.
p.s. I had some lemonbars and they were delicious.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
Let's his coaches do their jobs except the offensive
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
by bluemax on Jan 12, 2010 9:53 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I would watch and cheer, as my backflip days are long over...
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 12, 2010 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
Carroll could handle the ego trips, too.
by THolt on Jan 12, 2010 2:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Carroll could handle the ego trips, too.
by THolt on Jan 12, 2010 2:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
that dude is an interception machine
You think you pull your hair out when MH throws a game ending INT… try all the excitement and awe going 90 yards to throw on in the red zone. Try getting the ball back after getting scored on and throwing it to the other team 3 plays later. Cutler did the defense (terrible yes) no favors in keeping them off the field. Cutler could get there, but he’s a few years away from being consistently smart with the football.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 12, 2010 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Spoken like a disgruntled Bronco fan.
Not that it is surprising, mind you. I just wonder how long till you find someone you guys actually like at QB. To paraphrase Pitino, “John Elway’s not walking through that door!”
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 12, 2010 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
hahaha
The great’s only come along so often. I like Orton though. Tough SOB but takes care of the ball. I loved Jake Plummer and his benching probably lead to my Cutler distaste.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 13, 2010 5:17 AM PST up reply actions
Plummer was the only bronco I've ever liked.
I’ve lived in Denver for 4 years now, and I’ve seen a general expectation of a new Elway coming, and a lack of satisfaction with whatever guy is in the role at present. I think from talking to my friends you are in the minority being satisfied with Orton. But mainly I truly think it still all feeds from Elway and unreasonable expectations.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 13, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
I've never got the "next Elway" talk really...
Dude was legendary. People like to hang on to the past though. I see it as “how many years were between Johnny U and Payton Manning?”
I know I’m in the Orton minority, but some people miss watching the flash of Cutler while I enjoy things like leadership and ball security. I do think Orton has the advantage of definately not being John Elway to have a greater chance of success in Denver though. Next year will be key to that though.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 13, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
Interception Machine
by 008klm on Jan 12, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
that was awesome! thanks!
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 13, 2010 5:18 AM PST up reply actions
Let's his coaches do their jobs except the
offensive coordinator who is in reality a figurehead.
That being said I hope the Big Balls Pete chant makes it to Seattle.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
by bluemax on Jan 12, 2010 9:55 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
you don't think he's hands on with the OC and Bates is a figurehead?
I don’t know if I saw that much at USC. Pete would give calls like let’s take a shot here or something like that, but Bates was the active one on the mic when the offense was on the field.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 12, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
Pete Carrol bores you
Well Mora made me angry beyond words sometimes. I am hoping for a boring winner. It’s better thasn an angering loser.
What? No SOUL?
Realism
This is a good write up. Not like that shit from Jeffri Chadiha on ESPN yesterday. If only the Seahawks would have hired Chadiha to do their internal audit, then maybe we could have hire Martz or stolen a genius like Mangini. His idea that he already knows what is going to happen with Caroll is rediculous. Morgan makes a very good point that we need to wait and see if he is going to be any good by looking at his decisions and the results of those decisions. Then we can make a judgement. Similarly I was a Mora supporter, but by the end of the season, based on the outcome I saw, I was convinced that Mora just wasn’t producing the results that we want (wins) and that is just too bad. Good luck Caroll, we all want wins, even those who don’t like this decision will come around if we win…and build an offensive line.
John Morgan is far better at predictions than Chadiha as well
WITHOUT claiming to be. See: http://www.fieldgulls.com/2009/9/12/1027570/the-ten-seasons-of-the-2009
Like woah.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I made the mistake of reading Chadiha's piece
and it made me angry that he gets paid and John doesn’t. It was close to the worst sports ‘journalism’ I’ve ever seen.
by JamesMurphy on Jan 12, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
John gets paid. Just not Chadiha paid.
Damn shame, isn’t it?
6/14/40. Sweet.
by Nick Andron on Jan 12, 2010 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
This world is clearly screwed up.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Any Hack Can Win in College Football
especially when the championship in question isn’t real. Pete Carroll has had success in the NFL and led the Patriots to the playoffs once before Belichick ushered in an era of cloak and dagger and cheating. I think Carroll has a Larry Brown-esque ability to win in both the professional and collegiate realm but time will tell. Perhaps if the Seahawks were healthier, they’d win more. That sounds logical.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jan 12, 2010 9:32 AM PST reply actions
In the second half of the season
we were pretty healthy overall.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Thanks for the Insight
I don’t mind the Cardinals and am happy they’re doing well but ultimately I think in Utah we should get Broncos games every week (we do) but in the NFC, we should get Seahawks games more often. I always enjoyed watching them every week even if they were the Broncos’ division rivals. Bring back those classy uniforms with the gray helmets and the meaner-looking hawk too. Those rocked!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jan 12, 2010 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
Benchmarking Carroll 2010
Generally, I agree that Carroll brings just as many questions to the 2010 Seahawks as Mora and crew if they stayed. With that said, it is hard to judge or predict what Carroll brings to the table until his regime begins to take hold. The key then is to figure out where to focus analysis and thought exercises so that they are not all over the map.
My main question is this:
What record does Seattle have to achieve next year for Carroll not to be a primary target of criticism? 7-9? I am interested to hear what the various thoughts are about the expected level of improvement. What needs to happen to achieve that record. If you assume handicap +/-1 wins for exogenous events (injuries, regression to the mean, Kurt Warner retires, etc), Carroll needs to pick up 2-3 wins from last year. Assuming personnel is 80%/20% coaching, he needs 0.5 wins. Is that doable from simply from a scheme perspective? Could it be done only from offensive or defensive changes? I am not convinced that there are 0.5 wins somewhere on the either the offensive or defensive side of the ball just from better player utilization.
Shanghai Kelly's on Polk St. in San Francisco is the worst bar on the face of the earth (at least on Sunday mornings).
PC could get us 5 wins again.
But still make good decisions and I’d be happier with him. If 5 wins is all that can be had from the talent that gets put together next season then there’s only so much Carroll can do.
Personally I won’t be looking at the win total necessarily, but rather at clock management, player attitude, challenge success-rate, schemes and mid-game adjustments, making players match those schemes, and letting the better players play.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Bingo.
Process matters. If we stumble to 5 wins again, but Carroll is making sound coaching decisions, refrains from throwing his players under the bus, and generally doesn’t make the team worse, I’ll be happy enough.
I was trying to put it objectively
and not merely pine for Carroll to NOT be Mora….but you do say it better lol.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Getting younger and having players who can get better instead of likely fading would be on my comparable list.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 12, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
The live press conference is on the team's website, for those
who are interested.
A Mariners fan in Seattle
Any second now.
A Mariners fan in Seattle
by Coach Owens on Jan 12, 2010 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
And, again, it's on their website too.
A Mariners fan in Seattle
by Coach Owens on Jan 12, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
the NFL women seems angry at everyone
yet she doesn’t know why.
by Hancock.Brett on Jan 12, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
He is making the same mistake Singletary made last year by announcing his intentions to run, run, run. We figured out midseason that it doesn’t work, you need balance.
I think Carroll was the wrong guy for you guys to get. I don’t know who else was available or who you were talking about getting, but Carroll? He has already proven he is not that great of a Coach at the NFL level
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
I don’t see guys like Belichek saying stuff like that
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
I don't think there is an NFL coach that hasn't said "establish the run"
The hiring of someone like Jeremy Bates indicates that they will throw the ball if they have a QB that can. I’d put more stock into that as opposed to one statement in a press conference.
Good thing NE disagreed with your perception that a coach who was unsuccessful in the NFL shouldn't get rehired later.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 12, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
He coached the Browns…has anyone been succesful there in the last 20-30 years…or ever for that matter? Losing is embedded in their DNA in Cleveland
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
He doesn't count...
because, you know, that is a logical point. Drew K’s comment wasn’t about logic.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 12, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Saying he wants to run the football in a press conference doesn't mean a whole lot.
Bates threw the ball 61% of the time in Denver and he’s likely to have total control of the offense.
The guy thinks it’s going to be just like coaching his college players. I don’t know, I don’t know how he will do, but it doesn’t seem all that good for you guys from an outsider looking in.
But besides the coaching, your biggest issue is unhealthy players. The coach can only do what he can with the players he is given and when a ton of your players are injured, it’s not going to be easy to win games.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
we've had one major injury this year(Lofa)
he’ll get his current roster, it just might not be any good.
by Hancock.Brett on Jan 12, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
What about your Oline?
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Hasselbeck?
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
You didn’t have a complete team for most of the season
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Is that you, Jim?
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
Haha… funny
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Seriously though
If if the team was “healthy” it doesn’t matter. Our roster is old and fading at a lot of key spots. No matter who the next coach was, we need a serious talent infusion. the GM hire is going to matter just as much if not more than Carroll.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
So what is the window of time you think Carroll and a new GM have to turn it around? 2-3 years?
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Depends
As said before, process matters more than results the first couple years. If the team looks like it’s maximizing the talent it has, and Carroll inspires confidence and at least sounds like he has answers and a plan, then he probably gets 3-4 years for the talent level to catch up. At least long enough for people to start going “wait a sec, this team has way more young raw talent than the results show”
If he pulls a Mora, where it’s a week full of emotional tantrums and coachspeak cliches followed up by poor gameday performance where the team plays uninspired and the schemes get exploited, then he’ll wash out quickly.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
Sims, Spencer, and Unger played the majority of the games as did Ray Willis.
by Hancock.Brett on Jan 12, 2010 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
Were not expecting the team to make the playoffs next year.
We are expecting the team to make good draft picks, cut some veterans and build for 2011-
I have to be honest, I am hoping that the NFC West gets stronger. Even the Rams (which prob won’t happen) but I am sick of people saying we have the weakest division.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
Go Cardinals?
This weekend?
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
meh
haha
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
You guys have built up a rivalry with us. I am getting less fond of the Cards each year. And I live in AZ but I grew up in NoCal and it get’s under my skin to see so many bandwagoners here. When the Cards start losing again those same people will jump off.
One of my close buddy’s out here is a fan and has been since they stunk, so people like that I respect. I just see so much of it out here. All the people in Scottsdale with their Affliction shirts and Cardinal flags on their cars like its a trend. There is no loyalty to the teams in AZ with exception to the Suns maybe.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
I agree, which is why I'm half-assedly rooting for the Cards.
Please use the subject line here. Makes it easier for the mods and simpler to follow conversations. Thanks!
The talent of our players is probably a bigger issue than the health of our players, actually.
Please use the subject line.
by jacobstevens on Jan 12, 2010 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
Alex Gibbs
to Seattle?
Has anybody heard of this?!
by Jordann on Jan 12, 2010 10:19 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Supposedly tweeted by Schefter & Mort
I’ll try and find a link
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
here we go:
http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/status/7677225078
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
Huh, I thought it was going to be USC's OL coach.
Surprise!
A Mariners fan in Seattle
by Coach Owens on Jan 12, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
Pat Ruel might still be coming
just in a different capacity.
by seattle_since_81 on Jan 12, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
Assistant O-Line?
I would think that he’d stay at USC if that was the case.
A Mariners fan in Seattle
by Coach Owens on Jan 12, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
O-line coach.
According to ESPN’s Chris Mortensen, zone-blocking guru Alex Gibbs will be joining Pete Carroll’s staff in Seattle as the offensive line coach
No, I was talking about Ruel.
A Mariners fan in Seattle
by Coach Owens on Jan 12, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed.
More nervous, very ADD.
Shanghai Kelly's on Polk St. in San Francisco is the worst bar on the face of the earth (at least on Sunday mornings).
I wouldn't say nervous.
He sounds confident.
I knew he'd make a good first impression.
As a coach, I’m really excited to see what he can do. I bet the players will buy in to his ideas.
I liked how he was asking what the reporter's name was.
Hehehe.
A Mariners fan in Seattle
by Coach Owens on Jan 12, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
I think a player should ask him a question like they are a part of the media
That would be hilarious.
by seattle_since_81 on Jan 12, 2010 10:36 AM PST reply actions
This exchange cracked me up:
(paraphrasing)
Carroll: I got a clear message from upper management what my powers will be. I think that helps a coach succeed. players know there is one voice, one door they can knock on, and all their questions will be answered
Follow up question: Does that mean that you will have a role in personnel evaluation, drafting and FA?
Carroll: We’ll work that out later.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
fantastic news
let the all star cast begin!
by Hancock.Brett on Jan 12, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
That cannot be real
But of course probably is. Oh my god. That is hilarious. That person, if real, has to be slightly mentally ill. hahahahahaha. That has got to be my new facebook picture.
by Emperor_Doom on Jan 12, 2010 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
slightly?!?
there is nothing slight about someone who looks like this, including mental illness.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 13, 2010 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
Is that J.Mora?
Does Mora look more like Mark Wahlberg or Rick Morenis?
Nothing final on that front from Carroll during the presser
He has been talking to him though.
by seattle_since_81 on Jan 12, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
This:
According to ESPN’s Chris Mortensen, zone-blocking guru Alex Gibbs will be joining Pete Carroll’s staff in Seattle as the offensive line coach.
Carroll was asked about the report during the presser
He said that he was still talking to him. Nothing final on it yet.
by seattle_since_81 on Jan 12, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
Eh, he's not going to say anything bad about him.
A Mariners fan in Seattle
by Coach Owens on Jan 12, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't put much stock into that.
Carroll knows what Matt has meant to this franchise, he’s not going to call him out in his first press conference.
He hasn't
he said in the press conferene that he can’t wait to get upstairs and start looking at film
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
He also said that he hasn
A Mariners fan in Seattle
by Coach Owens on Jan 12, 2010 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
Mike Teel for starter!
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
he has to say it
can’t piss off everyone before he steps on the field.
by Hancock.Brett on Jan 12, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
Meh.
Pete hasn’t had the time to take a good look at the roster and Matt’s an established NFL veteran and former pro-bowler. Be encouraged that he said “The NFL is a quarterback driven league.”
exactly
he sounded like he just wanted to go upstairs and immediately start watching film.
by Hancock.Brett on Jan 12, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
And by that he means go get drunk at a bar with Sark. ; )
A Mariners fan in Seattle
by Coach Owens on Jan 12, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
Just saw that Steve Mariucci is a candidate for the USC job.
Just in case anyone was wondering where Mora and Knapp would end up.
I would think that Washington and Sark would find a place for Mora.
As DB coach or something.
A Mariners fan in Seattle
by Coach Owens on Jan 12, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
That would not be good news for the Dawgz secondary.
Plus, I doubt Mora would take that small of a role when he’s been thrown around as a candidate for the HC job there before. I just don’t see it.
If I was Sark, I wouldn't let Mora within a mile of the Athletic Department.
Maybe my impression is tainted from all the BS flying around the past few years, but Mora strikes me as best-case just a loose cannon that can’t self-edit thoughts before they leave his mouth, or worse case a schemer who passes blame off to others and is always positioning himself for his next move up.
Putting him on your coaching staff, after he’s already campaigned for the HC job, and there’s still a huge group of boosters convinced he’s a great/better candidate for it? That’s just asking for trouble, IMO.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
Is there somewhere online where I can watch the full press conference?
I had to steal glances at the tv while at work and I missed most of it
John Morgan you suck worse than Mora
You will end up eating these words like so many other. Go hawks.
Probably the headline
I doubt he bothered to read the actual content.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
Well... Mora was pretty good at sucking.
I’m pretty sure it would be a good thing to be worse at it than him.
Danny O'Neil just coined the nickname "Wizard of Hawks" for our new coach.
So I’m pretty certain that was actually Pete Carroll himself.
by jacobstevens on Jan 12, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
Hilarious
By any chance, did you not have time to read beyond the title?
by JamesMurphy on Jan 12, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah! I'm with Hawk"Wiz"!
How dare you take a rational and well-informed approach to the hiring of an essentially unknown head coach?! To not immediately buy wholeheartedly into this hiring is an insult to everything Brian Russell died for…after we sacraficed him.
by DJ C-Raig on Jan 12, 2010 12:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions

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