Pete Carroll's Second Shot at Jimmy Clausen
This is going to be Pete Carroll's team, but it's not going to be USC. Mock drafts will start plugging in prominent USC talent in the wake of his hire. Carroll is not a bonehead. He's decidedly not dogmatic. He won't simply draft his team from USC. Carroll will target the recruits that got away and that starts with Jimmy Clausen.
Steve Sarkisian recruited Clausen, hard. And who didn't? He was Matthew Stafford West. Clausen had it all: Performance, pedigree, tools, talent and the endorsement of quarterback guru Steve Clarkson. Clarkson started working with Clausen in seventh grade. His pupils include Matt Leinart and Matt Cassel (among others). Clarkson, as successful as one can be in his business, with little to prove and less to gain through hyperbole, spared no praise of Clausen:
"If there were a LeBron James for football, it would be Jimmy Clausen," said Clarkson, who has tutored nearly 20 quarterbacks who have been drafted or have played in the NFL. "He's truly a freak. It's ridiculous."
King Clausen signed with Notre Dame. Leinart was drafted by the Arizona Cardinals. Carroll has searched for his replacement ever since. The Trojans won two titles with Leinart and competed for another. USC hasn't contended for a title since. 43-9 is a decent stretch for a top tier program, but a step down for USC. Carroll lost only two games in Leinart's three seasons.
Clausen is the one that got away. Instead of drifting through easy success at USC, he took the hard path: playing catch up for the consistently talent poor Fighting Irish. Let's forego the scouting report just yet. Like any young quarterback, opinions about Clausen range from damning to sanctifying. He is the top quarterback prospect in his class and he will most likely be available at six.
Mike Shanahan signed with Washington and has thrown his support behind Jason Campbell. That's not too surprising. Campbell is similar to Jay Cutler: Tall, cannon armed and athletic. And Shanahan has had success with suspect quarterbacks: Jake Plummer and Brian Griese. He even squeezed a winning record out of 24 year old Steve Beuerlein. There's time for the relationship to sour, but even then, it would be a bold reversal if Shanahan selected a quarterback at five. I imagine a middle round insurance pick is more Shanny's style. Someone he can crush into dust and reshape in his own, diabolical image.
The Rams select Suh. He's the D'Brickashaw, Keyshawn, Orlando can't miss prospect of the draft. Detroit, Kansas City and Tampa Bay are set or stuck with their current quarterback. Clausen slips to six and Pete Carroll rights his wrong, or wrongs his right. We'll see. It's not certain, but it sure makes sense.
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Comments
That's an exciting thought
PC knows that it’s a QB’s league. He knows he wants to start the team with a QB. He is that for Matt’s experience. When I heard him say he was happy to have Matt, I mentally filled in the unspoken “as a mentor”. Whether that’s what he meant or not is unknown, but if Clausen falls to six…
by DJ C-Raig on Jan 12, 2010 2:45 PM PST via mobile reply actions
It also would be funny for Matt to be Clausen's mentor
Matt reputedly doesn’t like 1st round QBs. He went to BC, Clausen goes to ND, and there is that whole “Holy War” thing.
by DJ C-Raig on Jan 12, 2010 2:50 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
The rivalry between the two is called "The Holy War"
ala Civil War or Apple Cup.
by DJ C-Raig on Jan 12, 2010 3:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Matt should not have a job with this team in 2010.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Jan 12, 2010 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
Holding clipboards on and off the past two seasons may have gotten him enough experience to earn it.
by DrunkAmerican on Jan 13, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
For Matt's money we can all hold
Clipboards on the sidelines for the Seahawks.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Jan 13, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
I'd do it for 50k a year and consider it the greatest job ever...
Jesus I hate being broke.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 13, 2010 11:47 PM PST up reply actions
Pete will
pick a QB at 6. Be it Clausen or Bradford, he’ll pick one. I am hoping for a Left Tackle at 14 and a Defensive Tackle to complement ME-BANE! with the early 2nd round pick. I am cold on FA’s this year as our more recent pickups simply haven’t done enough to pique my interest in another high name recognition/low performance check casher.
What? No SOUL?
by mrcoffee1969 on Jan 12, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
I get the impression that
Hasselbeck has a certain amount of currency because of the quality of his past play and the link between his recent injury history and declining production.
What I don’t think this has bought is any sentimentality from PC about finding the quarterback of the future. I don’t think he’s going to be gun shy about drafting a QB like Ruskell seemed to be. That makes me happy.
Got a horrible feeling that John now spend months making me fall in love with Clausen
while I watch him climb draft boards and become the can’t miss QB – the Rams take him at 1:1 and Suh goes soon after. Be wrong, horrible feeling, be wrong…
We're in awesome shape
Its still way early, but there seem to be at least 6 players with loads of talent that fill positions of need in this draft. No matter how the first five picks go, mathematically we will end up with one of: Suh, Gerald McCoy, Jimmy Clausen, Eric Berry, Derrick Morgan, or our pick of Left Tackle prospects.
I’m siked on any of those guys, no problems.
That's how I felt last year, too.
I can easily see it feeling like that this year, too.
But then, as easy as it sounds, when Suh, McCoy, Bradford, Clausen & Berry are gone, and we’re sitting at six, it can also end up being pretty damned disappointing.
by jacobstevens on Jan 12, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions
I was actually thinking along the same lines...
but I didn’t know the history of USC recruiting Clausen. But they have played Notre Dame several times in recent years, which equates to lots of film study plus first-hand looks at Clausen’s play. While Jimmy struggled against SC last year in that 38-3 pasting, he put up decent respectable numbers against Carroll’s d in 2009
Pete Carroll and Sark
tried everything short of selling their souls to satan to recruit Clausen to USC.
Aren't the Rams in bad need for a QB too?
Why won’t they take Clausen?
I liked this Projected Mock Draft
I would love to see us get Claussen and Spiller. I was also surprised to see how much OL Depth is out there too. If we go offense skill positions with the first two picks, we need to address the OT spot in the 2nd or 3rd round to allow these guys to shine.
by MICHAEL MCGLYNN on Jan 12, 2010 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
No third rounder this year
We traded it to the Eagles to pick Deon Butler.
If Clausen falls to 6...
It will either be a great day (if we take him) or a horrible one (if we pass).
I would be very happy with Clausen at 6 and Spiller at 14.
Very happy.
We can’t really lose at 6 unless we reach, and 14 is perfect for one of the top RBs (and yes Spiller is my first choice).
So we have the combine this weekend and the draft next weekend? Was there something else going on?
Agreed, Clausen (or even Bradford) and Spiller would be ideal
The only exception I can see is a stud DT, but I don’t think Suh or McCoy fall to 6
by B.B.Finnegan on Jan 13, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
I've said, and I fully believe, that what the Rams do at #1 will determine whether or not that Seattle gets a QB.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Jan 12, 2010 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
Yes if they take Suh
One of the two QB’s Clausen or Bradford will be at the 6th pick barring a trade with another team moving up to get one of them.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Jan 13, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
Truthy
the connotation for me with that word was the implication that something was not falsifiable, but probably not actually true. Which would mean you don’t think Tebow is unequivocally a bad choice. But I’m guessing you do.
by jacobstevens on Jan 12, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
I just can't see the Rams passing on Clausen
As much as I want it to happen. They can’t go another year with Bulger and Boller.
It's not an either/or
Rams can select Suh first overall and easily move back into the first and grab whatever quarterback falls. The league is fickle and I’m sure a few have noticed that Josh Freeman has, so far, been the best quarterback of his class.
Of course, not only could the Rams select Clausen, but another team could trade up and select him.
I bet that won't happen though
this might be the last year of the megabucks first-round quarterback.
But they did need a QB.
We know the Lions, Bucs and Chiefs wont be talking one this year, which leaves the Rams and Redskins as the only teams in our way. The Rams might not take Clausen, but I think we all know it’s a possibility, just like the Lions with Stafford.
Shannahan
really seems to like Campbell, so i’m not convinced the Skins are in the running for a qb.
I wouldn't expect Shanahan to announce he's going to ditch Campbell...
…until it’s actually time to do so. Maybe he really likes him, and maybe he’s prepared to roll with him if there isn’t a guy in the draft or free agency that he likes for the price. Can’t really say for sure yet.
Same goes for Carroll. He’s going to sound like Hasselbeck is his man all the way up until they draft a new QB or sign a free agent, because there’s no good reason to announce you’re planning to dump the existing QB until you have his replacement in your grasp.
by sev79 on Jan 12, 2010 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think you are right Sev.
It’s tipping your hand to much to say the incumbent QB is not your guy and you will be looking for someone else.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Jan 13, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions
Based on what?
I have to think that if he said that, it’s just PR talk.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Jan 12, 2010 11:27 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly!
I don’t understand the “Clausen or bust” QB need argument for the Rams. IF they rank QB as the biggest need but still see Suh as a can-pass player, there are still a number of mid-tier QB prospects in later rounds and a handful of FA options (limited, but still).
Spagnolo is a definsive guy
They would be stupid to not take Suh. It is hard to justify taking Clausen with no one to protect him.
by Generzal Zod on Jan 12, 2010 7:23 PM PST up reply actions
Claussen can be more valuable than Suh...
but not this year. Suh will help them immediately. So I guess it depends on their vision for the team.
I was impressed with Freeman, at times.
I watched a few TB games and he’s much better than I thought. He, like most rookie QBs, has to cut down the turnovers. I would be happy if he was on our team. Great tools, but his head needs to catch up and that can be scary.
Hasn't That Been The Case For Awhile Now?
Maybe they think this is the year Bulger turns it around.
by Michael Scott on Jan 12, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
Are there any...
…talent-isolated stats for QBs developed yet? Think sabermetrics. I mean, how can so many NCAA monsters bust in the pros? There’s gotta be some evaluation tool out there appropriate for the transition. If we can give age-to-potential performance %s, something must be possible. I need answers, dammit!
by THolt on Jan 12, 2010 3:46 PM PST via mobile reply actions
There's the Lewin Projection System
but it’s, well it’s more a good starting point than tool. Football kind of defies statistics. There’s too much interdependence.
Completion percentage correlates strongly pro-to-pro
as do sacks. The rest is just up to scouting. The perception that first round quarterbacks are super volatile is overstated. There’s no accounting for crazy picks like JaMarcus Russell, but players with good tools and college success rarely bust.
Where do you project LeFevour going? He looked great in his bowl game and has the size and arm strength you look for in a pro QB?
by MICHAEL MCGLYNN on Jan 12, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
LeFevour is a system qb
with numbers inflated by the spread, not unlike Graham Harrel.
He should go late.
Or maybe he’ll go to Canada.
And to add to John
Doug Farrar once used an Aerosmith lyric to make a point, that too many prospects arrive in the pros to find they have “the right key baby but the wrong key hole.” Some guys bust, and that proves they couldn’t make it in the pros.
Some guys bust, and all you can be sure of is they didn’t make it in the pros given the dynamics and circumstances of the one opportunity they had (if you count a short tenure of a handful of years to only be one opportunity).
by jacobstevens on Jan 12, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
If we go offense in the draft, we better upgrade the pass rush in FA if we are going to stick with a 4-3 Defense
Would we have the cap space to even go after a Richard Seymour or Julius Peppers?
by MICHAEL MCGLYNN on Jan 12, 2010 4:40 PM PST reply actions
Kampman?
All The Way, AIRBORNE!!!
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Jan 12, 2010 5:13 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
If they franchise them again
He earned ~17.5M this year. The franchise tag in subsequent years requires like a 15-20% increase in base pay.
It is what it is...
Peppers is like Trufant or Housh
A finishing piece that we don’t really need yet. We don’t need their already developed skills or their huge salaries. We need cheap potential with a lot of upside who will be good when the team is good.
I would sell the farm for a new JP
I bet a 37 year old Julius Peppers will still be more athletic than most of the players in the league.
by Hawkhammer19 on Jan 13, 2010 1:00 AM PST up reply actions
Seeing how he's only 29, sounds like he could be around a while...
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 13, 2010 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
Way too early to tell.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Um?
I’m not sold on Clausen, but like most (or all) on this baord I’m not a QB guru, so who knows this guy may be gold within a couple of years. No matter what I would be fine with any combintation of LT, QB, RB, any DB’s, or any spot on the D-line with those first three picks in rounds one and two. Should be a fun draft.
What about Canfield
He seems a Leinart type talent. Big lefty with average arm strength.
It is what it is...
I've always liked Clausen
Clausen is definitely a guy that Pete Carroll would want. But offensive line is a neccesity too. Do u guys see us use the 14th pick to grab a left tackle?
I havn't seen much indication that there's good talent at the OT position this year.
Some that are probably worth mid to late first round picks, but LT is so over hyped right now that the good ones will move into the top 10 just because they are LTs. I wouldn’t mind a LT at the 14th pick, but I don’t think the value will be there.
Now with more lemon bars!
Any decent FA Left Tackles out there?
by MICHAEL MCGLYNN on Jan 12, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
Marcus McNeill
but he isn’t an “elite” left tackle yet but he is still an above average left tackle IMO.
by Seahawksfan23 on Jan 12, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
There was a thread about this a while back
and I still don’t know how to use the link button, so here ya go:
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2009/10/19/1091575/2010-free-agents-and-the-seahawks
I havn’t seen an updated list unfortunately.
Now with more lemon bars!
That didn't really help me
but I just figured out how to do it because of that. So it did help me. Thank you.
Now with more lemon bars!
In short:
I believe the answer was no. There were a few good ones, but they were all likely to be locked up before they hit free agency. The ones that were going to hit free agency were all average at best. If I remember correctly that is.
Now with more lemon bars!
Good link, thanks
I wonder who would fit Gibbs System on that list and might make an average one better based on the system?
by MICHAEL MCGLYNN on Jan 12, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions
Would much rather get Spiller at 14, we need an explosive game changer and Special Teams help
by MICHAEL MCGLYNN on Jan 12, 2010 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
What about taking a flyer on Stafon Johnson in later rounds?
by Trojan Knight on Jan 12, 2010 6:31 PM PST up reply actions
On the topic of left tackle.
What about McIntosh? Sure he’s old and isn’t likely to improve but he seemed an improvement over Locklear to me. Granted, I haven’t pored over the games like some have but… I mean McIntosh didn’t scream mediocrity to me like Locklear did. Idk, what’s the general consensus here?
The point of that question being: If McIntosh/Locklear can be an improvement over Locklear/Willis on the line and if there are no great LT draft options then mightn’t we conceivably not even address O-line until later rounds?
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Claussen should be properly used as a smokscreen to get one of the teams above us to draft him.
So that we may land the real best QB in the draft: Sam Bradford.
Based on what?
His command of the shotgun spread, and recent shoulder injuries? Bradford is a stretch at 14 and a disaster at six. Clausen or bust.
what you do now, round eye?
Lethal accuracy. Ability to make all the NFL throws.
His college TD/INT ratio wasn’t half bad, either. Smart player.
Would love to go Claussen and Spiller in the first round. Then hopefully Alex Gibbs can find us some late round OL help that fit his system
by MICHAEL MCGLYNN on Jan 12, 2010 6:29 PM PST up reply actions
I like Clausen a bit better
He’s pro style ready. Can read the whole whole field, etc. Plus his stats were ridiculous, especially when you take into account the teams he played.
That would be ideal if we could improve our OL and DL via free agency.
That would be a deadly duo for the future. Too bad we can’t throw Golden Tate in there in the second round, but I doubt he will slip that far.
by MICHAEL MCGLYNN on Jan 12, 2010 6:43 PM PST up reply actions
Shipley anyone?
Jordan Shipley seems like an early second rounder and definitely fits into a west coast offense.
by Seahawksfan23 on Jan 12, 2010 7:27 PM PST up reply actions
Or Bobby E replacement, if of course, you are willing to look past race.
I liked the guy’s game. Reminded me of Bobby!
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 12, 2010 11:18 PM PST up reply actions
Mmm, Bobby...
If we could get a young receiver like that to grow with our QB (in the vain of Manning-Harrison, Favre-Driver, Brady-Branch, Romo-Witten) it would be fantastic.
He looked good in the Championship Game
Seems like a great hustle, west coast type receiver.
by seattle_since_81 on Jan 12, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah he could be our next Bobby Engram
I really miss having a guy like that. Whoever we have at QB that was a huge part of our offense and would help our 3rd down conversions.
by Generzal Zod on Jan 13, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
I might, too.
I can get behind a new QB, even if it’s not my favorite one. Maybe I could just pretend he’s not from Notre Dame…
I love Spiller, but I could see Ryan Mattews, if he runs well, in rounds 2-3. Even James Starks as a later-round candidate.
I already spend time pretending
that our TE wasn’t from Notre Dame, so that wouldn’t be terrible.
by aarendsvark on Jan 13, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not an SEC fan
but I have no trouble taking a bad ass from one of those schools.
by Generzal Zod on Jan 13, 2010 6:12 PM PST up reply actions
I think you got it flipped.
Smokescreen Bradford, end up with Clausen. Is it one S’s or two in Claussen btw..?
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I kid (and enjoyed this write-up), but for a complete list of players that the media might link to Carroll in the future:
SWEET!
I was totally thinking George Achica, Pete Adams and Erik Affholter myself!
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 12, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
I like what the SC connection could do for us in the later rounds
It may help with trades if someone thinks we will target and SC player.
by Generzal Zod on Jan 13, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
Drafting a QB at 6 could be the best thing for Matt
Short term. Since Dilfer he has never been in jeopardy of losing his job. A little fear might eek out whatever he has left in the tank. He could have taken it personally if the old regime had drafted his replacement but not anymore, he needs to step his game up. I can’t help but root for him, I’ll be a Hass supporter til the day I die… Or his next 5 turnover game.
by Big E-Z on Jan 12, 2010 6:33 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Hass is the new Tim Hasselbeck
He should be on ESPN staring into a camera like a deer in the headlights fumbling every other word.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Jan 12, 2010 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
I like that idea...
it’s diabolical sorta.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
He can't very well go making declarations otherwise in January.
Statements like that should probably be best taken with a grain of salt.
Does he have to say anything at all?
Or I’d think right now would be a good time to say something like “I haven’t really had time to make any big roster decisions”.
I’m worried, but I could be overreacting.
He has to say something positive to make the story go away by the end of the week
Any other answer and it’s “Carroll getting rid of Matt” stories out the wazzu from now through the draft.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Zactly. Spin baby. Double wash cycle.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 12, 2010 11:19 PM PST up reply actions
Why would he not want Hass around?
Proven veteran that can help a young QB learn the ropes? Someone to fall back on? Doesn’t mean he wants Hass at his current contract, or that he is willing to break the team for Hass. It’s January homey, he needs to give the company line and keep everything positive.
Don’t read too much into it until Training Camp.
I was thinking 7th was a tough call... 5th is automatic.
3rd we do a dance.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 12, 2010 11:20 PM PST up reply actions
There are probably a couple of teams that would take him
while giving up a 3rd rounder or 4th rounder. Cleveland comes to mind and not just because Holmgren is there. Quinn and Anderson have been quite underwhelming.
by seattle_since_81 on Jan 12, 2010 8:43 PM PST up reply actions
I think Cleveland would do it for a 4th rounder
Holmgren brought in a veteran (Kitna) when he first started in Seattle to establish his offensive credibility in a new city. Quinn has struggled and is entering his 4th season and is now moving to a WCO.
If Favre does another retirement circus again this year I could see him in Cleveland too. How crazy would that be?
Kitna wasnt a veteran, he was youngish
And I remember talk starting immediately on whether GB would give up that Hasselbeck guy, it just took some time.
Like the kids selling lemonade for $100...
They may not sell many, but it only takes one.
As long as one team needs a vet QB and has mid picks to spend, we should be able to get a 3rd. Doesn’t matter if 30 other teams think it’s a rip-off.
Thoughts on Clausen
Pros: I like his decision making and that he played well on a mediocre team. He played on a very similar offense to Seattle’s which is incredibly valuable in terms of preparation time: It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Clausen was better as a rookie than 35 year old Hasselbeck. He has an excellent TD/INT ratio. His personality/leadership and mechanics are not ideal but at the same time, those flaws are reminiscent of Aaron Rodgers.
Cons: The big knock on him is his delivery is kind of wacky and he’s not as tall as his listed height. If this was 2008 or 2009, Clausen would probably be the 3rd QB taken (meaning mid-late 1st round), but in the current market, if the Seahawks want him, they’ll probably have to take him at #6. I’d say there is maybe a 10% chance he falls to #14 (I just can’t see the Rams, Skins, Browns, Raiders, Bills, and Broncos all passing on him or no team trading up). He’s going to miss the combine which means less information to go on. He played an easy schedule in 2009. And totally subjective and shallow, but I don’t like his looks- kind of looks like a classic dbag (worse than Stafford, IMO). Not that I’d care much if he made the pro-bowl of course.
Definitely over 2009 Sanchez
Also over 2009 Freeman. Flacco too. There are 4 teams other than St. Louis needing a QB this year. Clausen doesn’t slip past 8 unless some serious red flags are raised between now and April.
He’d have been picked before Flacco in ‘08. Heck, even Chicago with Orton passed on Flacco for Chris Williams. KC thought Tyler Thigpen was preferable to Flacco too and passed on him. Twice. There were teams needing QBs that drafted otherwise unspectacular players instead of him. So no, he would’ve been picked up earlier.
I think Baltimore got lucky having him in their own backyard and getting a good long look at him.
by Attylathehawk on Jan 12, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions
Unless someone can offer evidence that delivery impacts ability
It’s immaterial.
by John Morgan on Jan 12, 2010 9:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
so true
If a QB completed 70% of his passes underhand would it matter? Ok, that is probably a bad example. It’s sort of like arguing with success.
On the other hand a quick release is material for all of you Tebow lovers
I hate watching Philip Rivers chuck it
But the results speak for themselves. I agree that quick release is more important than form. Even tall Qbs with great form get passes knocked down at the line.
by Big E-Z on Jan 12, 2010 10:08 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
Worrying that a player doesn’t look prototypical is a good way to talk yourself into bad decisions. Does he perform well should be all that matters.
Some baseball players have herky-jerky swings and can hit .300. Gary Payton had a weird, rangey way of dribbling and yet a phenomenal assist to turnover ratio. Chris Brown has a weird head tic. And 2000 yards rushing.
I think his size was a concern
because at 6’3" you’re ideal height… but at 6’1" there’s no way you can see over your lineman!
I was referring to
this
he’s not as tall as his listed height
That was Drew Bree’s major concern. That he wasn’t tall enough to throw over his linemen.
Now with more lemon bars!
Also he was a system guy
Purdue QB’s put up ungodly numbers like Texas Tech’s QBs.
by Generzal Zod on Jan 13, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
His height was the big knock on hi
by Big E-Z on Jan 12, 2010 10:10 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I had more thoughts but whatever
Do that again iPhone and I will end you
by Big E-Z on Jan 12, 2010 10:11 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
height is another overrated factor
College lineman are big. If a QB can see over them in college well then…
I think it's pretty certain
that a long delivery impacts ability. Clausen has a long delivery.
To measure Clausen’s delivery you have to start at the point that he begins to lean back. He has a strange lean back/jerk forward motion that helps him get some velocity on the ball. But it adds up to almost a second between when he decides to throw and when the ball leaves his hand.
by Skinsmaniac on Jan 12, 2010 11:20 PM PST up reply actions
It does not add a second to his delivery, his entire delivery is less than a second
Byron Leftwich’s delivery isn’t even a full second long.
I’m watching Clausen on Hulu and I can kind of see the hitch you’re talking about. It’s noticeable when he’s really trying to throw downfield. It’s a lot less noticeable before the injury to his foot though. His whole delivery is tighter and smoother in that Nevada game compared to the Michigan State game.
Yeah. I remember him.
He was a running/option QB with some modest passing statistics.
Mirer’s career yards (in 4 years as a starter.)
5,997 yards with 41 TD’s and 23 int’s.
His senior year — 1876 yards, 15 TD’s 6 ints. (51% completion percentage.)
Compare that with Jimmy Clausen’s JUNIOR year and career numbers.
Career (one less year than Mirer, mind you).
8,148 60TD/28int
And his Junior year—
3,722 28TD/4int (68% completion percentage!!!!)
I’m not the guy who is sold on Clausen, but I will say this…
the only comparable thing about them is they both wore gold helmets.
Worthless comparison, really.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 13, 2010 12:35 AM PST up reply actions
Really, cloning technology hasn't been perfected to that point at all.
So contrary to popular belief, college football is not overrun with Rick Mirers.
Stupid enter button
They aren’t overrun with Peyton Mannings either.
Well you never hear anyone say that.
The only assertions people make whenever a QB is taken early is that they’re the next Rick Mirer.
Not true
People always compare high QB’s to other QB’s whether they were good or bad. It just depends if you are a pessimist or an optimist. Personally I am a realist and understand that it is a risk no matter where you take a player. There are no sure things except in hindsight.
Bullshit.
When it comes to Seattle, people always list - FIRST AND FOREMOST- Rick Mirer. As if he is the end all be all example of high first round draft picks.
Despite the fact that he was picked in 1993 and hasn’t been relevant in a really really long time. I could probably name 50 first round QB’s off the top of my head picked SINCE Mirer was drafted 2nd overall, and yet what QB gets referenced most often when it comes to the Seahawks? Rick Fucking Mirer. And because Clausen comes from Notre Dame? Guess what— more Rick Fucking Mirer references. YAY! As if they are relevant today.
They’re not. Notre Dame was completely different then, runs a completely different offense. Jimmy ran a west coast NFL style offense. Rick Mirer has a lot more in common with Tony Rice than he does Jimmy Clausen, but that’s irrelevant to the hasty generalization crew.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 13, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
So...
strikethrough was an error. But I stand behind the words.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 13, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
Did you mean to reply to my comment,
Or is that sarcasm? I wasn’t comparing your friend Jimmy with Mr. Mirer, just noting that on a global perspective when a QB is high on a draft they are compared to other good QB’s that have played in the NFL depending on if your an optimist or pessimist. Obviously you are an optimist.
Whether they came from the same school, their stats are similar, throwing motion, body type or the amount of gel they put in their hair, it is irrelevant. I could bring up busts and successes from drafts past, but they don’t mean crap because everyone will respond differently in different situations. All this projected analysis does is lessen a persons aversion to an unknown. That unknown is how will that person perform in the NFL in this case.
I await Jimmy’s arrival knowing nothing about how he will perform, just like I awaited other players.
Oh and yes, people list Mirer as the example when it comes to Seattle, but I was always partial to the extreme reach of McGwire.
I'm saying there are many successes and failures before and since Mirer.
However, without a doubt, he’s the VERY FIRST GUY referenced with the Seahawks and drafting a QB, no matter what. It isn’t because he’s good or bad— it’s because he came from Notre Dame and we picked him.
The first part, that he came from Notre Dame has absolutely zero relevance to present, but it is the harkening back people make, and what’s more, they frame the argument opinion with “Oh no, not a Notre Dame QB.” It’s ridiculous and lazy. Notre Dame then to now is completely different.
The second part, that he was drafted by us ergo we fail in drafting QB’s is equally worthless. We failed in 1993 under different coaching, front office, even ownership, to draft the right QB. Great. What exactly does that have to do with today? NOTHING.
So when you say it has to do with pessimism or optimism that really isn’t the case. People from New Jersey or Nebraska don’t center their arguments around QB drafting into the Rick Mirer vortex. That is uniquely a Seahawk fan perspective that is based entirely on faulty reasoning. Don’t let those lazy comparisons fly and give them any merit what so ever.
One final point. Jimmy isn’t “my friend.” As I said up above, “I’m not the guy who is sold on Clausen, but I will say this… the only comparable thing about them is they both wore gold helmets. Worthless comparison, really.”
Mirer is a lazy comparison. Your point of McGwire is actually a much better one—
In 1989, McGwire passed for 3,651 yards and in 1990 threw for 3,883 yards and 27 touchdowns. At least he was a passing QB not a running one, with very similar numbers yardage and td-wise. (Didn’t find the INT numbers for college, and not interested enough to search.)
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 13, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
Also... didn't mean to come down on you... just the general acceptance of a weak comparison.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 13, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
I see your point
My pessimism/optimism argument is not about a single person. If someone likes Clausen, they are going to be optimistic about his success in the league, while someone who doesn’t like Clausen is pessimistic about his chances of succeeding. Personally, I don’t think any comparisons and stats mean much in the eventual success/failure. Use the data to make your analysis on the player, but it is still a crap shoot as to whether that player will be a success because it each individual has their own perception of how good he should be.
I think the lesson from Mirer is...
never pick a ND quarterback with the #2 pick,
Joe Theisman was pretty good too.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 13, 2010 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
Great response. I still can't even see it.
The hulu vids were down, but I just watched a half-dozen, including trying to find tape from the toe injury games, but I don’t see anything that other pro QBs don’t do.
by jacobstevens on Jan 13, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Leftwich doesn't have an arm though
In his case it is not about delivery but arm strength, Clausen has a great arm.
by Generzal Zod on Jan 13, 2010 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
Clausen has an extremely fast delivery. It's not even remotely long
He was compared to Dan Marino in high school.
by John Morgan on Jan 13, 2010 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
We must be looking at different things
I understand that his release is quick, but his whole body contorts before he even moves his arm. It’s very slow coming out.
It matters
If you want a QB who can get the ball out quickly once he decides to throw it somewhere. A QB who has to contort his entire body to throw the ball is going to take a lot more sacks than other QBs and safeties are going to break on the ball faster.
by Skinsmaniac on Jan 14, 2010 12:20 AM PST up reply actions
I agree
but I could imagine how it could. Not Clausen’s, which doesn’t even seem sidearm to me at all, I don’t think it’s even 3/4.
But you know how scouts dock points off mechanics when they hold the ball too low or keep the elbow too far back when releasing…it can inhibit response to edge pressure, or undermine consistent accuracy. We can say the results speak for themselves, but the pro game has a way of revealing the impact of minor things like that, that can be not exposed in college.
So I could imagine that the nature of delivery could make a difference, but it’s something that can be transcended, like Rivers & Young. But unless there are specific scout-observed mechanical issues, it’s not a legitimate knock against him.
by jacobstevens on Jan 13, 2010 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
Correct me if I am wrong
But wasn’t that said about S. Young’s delivery?
I still want Bradford.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Jan 12, 2010 11:29 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I perfer Sam as well
But more importantly I prefer not seeing #8 behind center the sooner the better.
by A'Seahawks_Warriors on Jan 13, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
Listen and hear
If the Rams want Clausen, then maybe we can go after Nu. We draft their QB at six and we trade some stuff and we get the best pass rusher in the draft. Suddenly our D is powerful and effective as all our speed rusher will be freed up to attack.
Course the Rams may not want to trade within their division.
So we can still take Clausen. I’m starting to want him. But it’s hard not to want a big offensive linemen their or whoever the 2nd best d linemen is. Just don’t draft anyone who is not on the line or a superstar QB.
Its a good article and brings up a couple of problems that I saw in Clausen
I’ve only seen him play twice, but I saw the same things, granted I’m not an expert, this is just IMO. His throwing motion will be an issue if he is getting a lot of tips and int when the competition is good enough to exploit it. With that said, there is a lot of evidence that he is a great athlete and could very easily fix it if the real experts think he needs to.
I completely think that his numbers are inflated though. He doesn’t play in a spread, but most of his passes are one read and dump it to my playmaker in space. He didn’t walk down a progression much and didn’t throw the ball effectively deap. He did throw up some moon shots that the UW safeties had fun with.
He may be the number one in this year, but I’m just not convinced that he is enough of a sure thing to take him in the first round. I think for sure things, that would be worth the first round money, we should look at Lupati, Haden, Morgan, McCoy or some others.
While on ND, I think we should look at Golden Tate. He is going to shoot up draft boards here pretty quick and end up in the middle of the first round.
All indications are that..
we are moving to a 3-4…. I suspect we can use Hill, Tatupu, Hawthorne, and Curry as our linebackers, with Herring available as a backup. So I don’t think we need to invest any picks there. The D-line seems like a major question mark to me.. The only guy that seems like a sure thing is Mebane, but he may be an end in a 3-4. Does LoJack bulk up and play end or slim down and play OLB? In either case, does he play much? Are we retaining Tapp? Redding? The state of this DL could dramatically affect our draft. A guy like McCoy could end up being the piece we need. It would also seem like Morgan, a prototypical 4-3 end, is not an option for us.
I don't see a whole lot of indications that we are moving to a 3-4.
I do hear a whole lot about us staying with a cover-2 4-3 that isn’t much different than what we’ve been running.
Jackson would be asked to bulk up a little and go DE. He isn't explosive enough to go OLB.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 13, 2010 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
I agree with this.
The big problem with switching to a 3-4 (and remember, Carroll’s background is 4-3 under for the most part) is getting a stud NT. How do you find those guys that are that big and athletic? There just aren’t that many around. Perhaps a Ratliff-type in the mold of a quicker, penetrating type but even then. Switching would be a tough decision if we lack perhaps the hardest position to fill on a team.
Well, this year with Cole doing nothing next to him
he’s essentially been taking on the center of the opposing lines (double teams like crazy). And he’s still been having success. Even though Cole is getting single teamed and taken out of plays. As a NT, he would be doing the same thing. The 1 tech is supposed to be helped out by a dangerous and/or productive 3 tech. Mebane has had no such help and is still successful. NT’s don’t get that help, hence the position being harder to succeed in. Mebane has succeeded without the help. So I think he could switch to NT.
Now with more lemon bars!
I can see that, sure.
It also makes me wonder if ‘Bane wouldn’t be a good DE in the 3-4. Knifing through the line is a strength of his, but simply clogging the middle and getting doubled might not be taking best advantage of his skills. I’d rather see a big fat guy who is solid at the point and less of a penetrator, allowing Mebane to work single-blocks into the backfield. Unless, of course, you thing Mebane could be a Jay Ratliff type of player – playing the nose and still penetrating and disrupting with quickness and a lighter frame. I don’t see Mebane being that similar to Ratliff physically.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Sam Bradford, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling, RB Jonathan Dwyer
Here is an article about Haynesworth and a possible 3-4 switch in WAS.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Can-Haynesworth-make-the-switch-to-34.html
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Sam Bradford, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling, RB Jonathan Dwyer
Red
What is the story on Red Bryant. I know he had some injury problems but he never seemed to be on the field. Is this just another Mora not playing the better player (Jforce) because Cole makes more money. Will Red thrive under PC?
The future is looking better
That's a good question.
It would be pretty awesome to have Red and Mebane on a line in their primes.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Sam Bradford, OT Ciron Black, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling, RB Jonathan Dwyer
He's still raw.
No excuse in a lost season, but that’s what it is. He’s raw, and he disappears more than he makes spectacular disruption.
Cole’s cost probably was also a factor. I have no idea what Carroll would do with Red. I am curious to know if he will adamantly stick with a 1-gap assignment scheme across the front seven, or if he would use at least a 2-gap NT. Even if Red disappears, with our great LBs who can clean up behind him, he could be a force simply sucking up double-teams routinely, and then occasionally rising up and destroying a play single-handedly once or twice a game.
by jacobstevens on Jan 15, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Draft Prospects
Like everyone said there is extremely good talent at the top of the draft board, although not at the skill positions…. my thought is with our 6 and 14th pick in the 1st round we draft some linemen, or if someone like Berry falls to us that would be amazing…. but we could wait around in the draft and pick up Dan LeFevour in the 2nd round… this kid is the protypical NFL QB, great arm, accurate, big (6’4", 208lbs) he does nothing but throw the ball well, and score touchdowns. If you look at recent years, when is the last time a top 5 or even 10 draft pick at QB has panned out?? it seems to me it is always these kids from Marshall (big ben), Eli, and Carson are about the only 2 top qbs drafted who have managed to be successful.
A Seattle Fan from Upsate NY living in the South.... Figure that one out!!!! Go Hawks!!!
I watched
Dan LeFevour play in the bowl game this year, and he led his team down the field time after time and didnt crumble under pressure at all… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xpg7_yR448&feature=related … notice the speed, and strength when he runs, and the accuracy, and velocity of his cannon of an arm…. im looking for more videos that show him throw the ball, but he is the real deal!!
A Seattle Fan from Upsate NY living in the South.... Figure that one out!!!! Go Hawks!!!
We should get a VERY good player at 6...
unless something really bad happens to one of them.
As of today, the top group is. . .
Suh, Clausen, Bradford, Okung, Berry, and (DT) McCoy.
The combine could expose one of them or propel someone else into the group, but we are sitting very pretty at 6. Who in that group we not be happy to add?
I just dont
like bradford and mccoy… they played against the big 12… which cant stop anyone on defense…. and they arent as big, and you will see their 40 times arent even close to Dans and they arent nearly as big as Dan
A Seattle Fan from Upsate NY living in the South.... Figure that one out!!!! Go Hawks!!!
No, I prefer Clausen to either QB Bradford/McCoy...
However, just to be clear I was including the DT Gerald McCoy in my top 6, not Colt the QB.
from what ive seen
clausen is who we are going to be looking at, carroll really liked him b4 college, and charlie weis made him look pretty good, i just hope we make the right choice, because its pretty much our future, we just have to make sure we can protect the qb with our line, and get pressure with our d line
A Seattle Fan from Upsate NY living in the South.... Figure that one out!!!! Go Hawks!!!
Lefevour played in the MAC, not exactly a juggernaut conference.
And if we’re going by NFL Draft Scout measurables Bradford is an inch taller than Lefevour and runs a 4.7 forty to Lefevours 4.8 forty.
Bradford is the question mark for me...
I need to do more research before I decide if I want him as our QBotF. But h’e been top 5 all year on most boards…
But even if he is the one who falls to six, and PC doesn’t want him, we’d be in a great spot to trade back a bit to someone who does covet him— and I have zero doubt some teams covet him. (I’d certainly charge more than the NYJs paid last year for Sanchez, though…)
If JC is gone (and I know Suh will be), I’m hoping for either Berry, G.McCoy or Okung to be there. I do like some of the next tier of QBs.
Speaking of trades, I think NE would be a very good trading partner since they own a fistful of upper seconds…
i agree
it would be nice if one of our top players that we need isnt there, we should def look at a trade, and NE is in desperate need of some new players, they are similar to us, getting very old, and banged up
A Seattle Fan from Upsate NY living in the South.... Figure that one out!!!! Go Hawks!!!
Unfortunately Belichick rarely (if ever) trades up in a draft
The reason why they have so many second rounders is because he loves to trade down.
by seattle_since_81 on Jan 13, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
40 times? Really?
Yeah it’s nice to have a QB who can scramble if needed, but I’d put that as the absolute last attribute I’d look for. I don’t know if Peyton Manning could run the 40 in ten seconds.
But that extra .10 of a second over 40 yards while scrambling makes all the difference in the world.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 13, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
Disagree
I think Okung and Berry are both over rated. Berry might get away with it and stay in the top 15, but I don’t think Okung will. Expect a big drop on draft day. Clausen likewise – watch the tape closely. Suh, McCoy, Morgan, Haden, McClain – the top prospects and all on defense. It’s not a great year for offense, you’re looking at Bryant and Spiller as the best guys that side of the ball.
I have to ask
What specifically is overrated about Berry? It drives me nuts when someone writes something like that. I can’t think of an emptier statement.
I know that wasn't directed at me, but I was just thinking-- I don't think he's over-rated...
but I do say that I would much rather have Haden. My understanding is Haden is a lock-down corner, You very rarely find a lock down corner anywhere but near the top of the draft. You can, however, find serviceable to elite level safeties later in the draft. Hence I would rather take Haden if it comes down to defensive backs in the 6 spot…
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by whiskey chainsaw on Jan 13, 2010 11:52 PM PST up reply actions
Palmer, Rivers, Manning, Roesthlisberger, Cutler, and Ryan were all successfull top ten picks since 2003
Dan Lefevour put up worse numbers than Clausen against inferior competition. Clausen put up his numbers in a pro style offense, Lefevour put up his in a spread option. His arm is fine but his speed wouldn’t translate to a BCS conference, let alone the NFL.
The records he has
are unprecedented he might not fall to the 2nd round… maybe with our 14th pick in the 1st round… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GXlsr8Iptk&NR=1 check out this page with some Qs and As on him http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14176480 it has a ton of info on him and his records
A Seattle Fan from Upsate NY living in the South.... Figure that one out!!!! Go Hawks!!!

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