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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

A look at USC recruiting under PC and how it might apply to the Seahawks

Disclaimer, a lot of this is based upon my memories as an under grad at USC and my time spent watching the team since graduating. I tried to fill in some of the holes with sites such as Rivals, mostly to remind myself how some of these guys were viewed coming out of HS. I don't contend to be a pro or anything and obviously recruiting at a college powerhouse is not quite the same as drafting in the NFL but I thought maybe it would be worth a look.

I'm going to only post up one part of this to see what kind of thoughts people have on the format and information. That way if there are a lot of suggestions I can refine and improve the other sections.

Star-divide

QBs

Year Name Rivals Position Classification
2003 John David Booty Pro Style QB
2004 Rocky Hinds Dual Threat QB
2005 Mark Sanchez Pro Style QB
2006 Garett Green Dual Threat QB
2007 Aaron Corp Dual Threat QB
2009 Matt Barkley Pro Style QB

History/Context
While many people will think of Matt Leinart, Matt Cassel and Carson Palmer it is important to remember that all 3 of those guys were recruited by Paul Hackett. Palmer was always considered a top notch QB prospect but he went through 3 OCs his first 3 years at USC and it wasn't until year 2 under Norm Chow that he really took off. Leinart was more Chow's baby than he was Pete's. Booty left HS early to enroll with the Trojans and was actually considered a lock to start as a true freshman until Leinart's emergence. Rocky Hinds red-shirted at USC for a year before transferring to UNLV. Garrett Green won a lot of awards in HS where he was an accurate passer and good runner but was only considered a 3 star prospect by Rivals. He bounced around several positions while at USC. Aaron Corp was a better version of Green in HS and was expected to be the starter at USC this year (although some contend the job was always Barkley's to lose) and to provide an extra dimension to the USC offense with his legs.

Analysis/Patterns
At USC there is something of an expectation by the fans that the QB will be a tall, rocket armed, confident kid preferably from Orange County. 3 of the 5 QBs under PC fit this and Leinart covered all of it sans the rocket arm. In terms of what PC likes/expects going forward I think Barkley and Sanchez are really his ideal models. Assuming the offense is similar to what USC ran last year, Pete and Jeremy are going to prefer someone capable of selling the play fake, and mobile enough to roll out and throw on the run. Despite all the dual threat QBs that USC went after the guys who started were never run first types, but they were generally all capable of evading a rush and throwing outside of the pocket. I personally think that Pete also prefers a guy with a strong arm who can throw deep but I have a feeling that this isn't his number one tool in a QB (as evidenced by picking Leinart as the starter back in 2004).

How this applies to the current roster/draft prospects
I think that moving forward, PC is obvious going to want to find his type of QB. Hasslebeck isn't really it, and Wallace looks more like the kinds of guys he kept recruiting and then never giving a chance to play. Of the top guys the only one who sticks out at me as being the PC kind of guy is Jimmy Clausen. John's already done a great write up on Clausen and Pete so I won't rehash that. No one else in this draft makes sense to me from this perspective.

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Good stuff

Doing a quick rivals search of Carroll’s starting quarterbacks it looks like he doesn’t worry much about prototypical size. Barkley is 6’2, Booty is 6’3, Corp and Sanchez are 6’4.

by Nate Dogg on Jan 19, 2010 6:30 PM PST reply actions  

A big deal was made about Booty's size by fans

but the large part of that was due to passes he had batted at the line of scrimmage. If I remember an article by Trojan Football Analysis correctly though it was more a case of his batted passes coming at inopportune times than them coming at a higher rate than Palmer’s or Leinart’s.

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by bluemax on Jan 19, 2010 6:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Should I make further additions as part of this post

or do them in a series of posts?

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by bluemax on Jan 19, 2010 6:55 PM PST reply actions  

I typed up the RB post already

and its just as long and I was thinking about adding a break down of carries per year, just for my own curiousity.

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by bluemax on Jan 19, 2010 8:10 PM PST up reply actions  

RB seems to be this:

Get as many top 10 RB recruits as possible, somehow convince all of them that they will be the starter, let the worse ones transfer out.

by LantermanC on Jan 20, 2010 8:05 AM PST up reply actions  

So we're going to draft McCoy and sit him?

I joke – is it possible that he was bringing in those dual threats in case they decided to go to the spread? People lined up to sit on the bench – look at Mustain sitting on the bench at USC was better than the bench at Arkansas.

Spring cleaning has started early this year!

by Generzal Zod on Jan 19, 2010 11:04 PM PST reply actions  

The spread never seemed like a likely move

The offense from 2001-2005 was Norm Chow’s offense which in turn was a variation of LaVell Edward’s West Coast Offense from BYU. I was actually surprised recently when I saw a 2001 USC game on TV and saw Palmer in the shot gun as I didn’t remember USC using the shotgun at all during Chow’s tenure.

I almost want to say that Hinds and Corp were both recruited more so to keep them away from ucla than for their actual chances of making it on the field. Garett Green was moved to Safety almost immediately and he played WR and was an emergency QB/scout team QB but he never was a serious contender for a starting job.

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by bluemax on Jan 20, 2010 12:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Wow.

I almost want to say that Hinds and Corp were both recruited more so to keep them away from ucla than for their actual chances of making it on the field.

Carroll is capable of treachery. I like it.

by Misfit74 on Jan 20, 2010 9:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Corps seems good

But Barkley seems like he could be the next step in QB evolution. Okay, maybe not that awesome, but fairly spectacular.

by DJ C-Raig on Jan 20, 2010 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

I've only seen Corp play once, against Washington

And he was not good. I definitely thought that the game would have ended differently if Barkley had been in there.

by stufr on Jan 20, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

That wasn't a fair representation. He was

Coming off an injury and had not been able to practice with the first team. He was also going against a team that had the USC offensive and defensive playbooks. I would also argue the play calling was too conservative.

by Trojan Knight on Jan 20, 2010 4:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Added stuff on WRs

might be kind of all over the place in the section about history/context.

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by bluemax on Jan 20, 2010 12:05 AM PST reply actions  

Done

Will post more as I can find time to do it. I did QBs last week when I was stuck in a hotel with not much else to do, and RBs during my lunch hour today, WR because I didn’t feel like my normal night time time wasters.

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by bluemax on Jan 20, 2010 1:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Mike Teel kinda fits the profile PC likes

He is tall at 6’3" 230, mobile enough but definitely not a pure run threat and he has a cannon.
If PC drafts a QB in the 1st his coaching/GMing success in Seattle would always be tied to that pick. Whose to say that he doesn’t look at Teel and say, this is a guy that we can make into my kinda QB.

by stufr on Jan 20, 2010 4:32 AM PST reply actions  

This would be extremely convenient if it turns out this way

I sure like the idea of not having to use a 1st round pick on a QB.
Stranger things have happened.

by Strictnine on Jan 20, 2010 7:34 AM PST up reply actions  

I wonder about Teel's ability to turn into a decent QB

He threw a lot of picks against not very good defenses in the Big East.

Spring cleaning has started early this year!

by Generzal Zod on Jan 20, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

He wasn't a world beater, but I wouldn't call it a lot of picks

YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2005 51 101 683 50.5 6.76 38 2 10 6 94.03
2006 164 296 2135 55.4 7.21 74 12 13 7 120.59
2007 203 349 3162 58.2 9.06 69 20 13 7 145.73
2008 243 396 3418 61.4 8.63 93 25 13 16 148.13

by stufr on Jan 20, 2010 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I went back and watched as many Teel preseason highlights as I could find

His arm and deep ball definitely seem desirable ala the Obomanu TD vs. Oakland. At the time my evaluation was that he made a bunch of errant throws and had serious inconsistency issues. But hey! that sounds coachable to me.

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Jan 20, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I asked John about this

and he said something along the lines of, I don’t know if it’s coachable, or not coachable, but to go through high school and college, get drafted, and then have a training camp with the Seahawks and still have this problem gives weight to the idea that it may be hard to correct or may be actually insurmountable.

by jacobstevens on Jan 20, 2010 3:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Jake Locker fits these criteria pretty well.

He’s a little short (6’3"ish) but he has a strong enough arm to make all the pro throws and then some and he’s extremely athletic. Though I think some may see him as a run first QB, he really didn’t cut it loose much in 2009.

by Bildo on Jan 20, 2010 7:31 AM PST reply actions  

Pete is high on Locker from what I've read

so sure I could see this happening under the right circumstances.

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by bluemax on Jan 20, 2010 9:48 AM PST up reply actions  

When asked how Locker stacks up against Vince Young:

“I think this guy (Jake Locker) is the best quarterback we’ve played against,” Carroll said. “I thought Vince (Young) played the best game I’ve ever seen anybody ever play.”

by Bildo on Jan 20, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Locker needs to get busted smoking pot just before the combine.

Let him freefall in the draft so Seattle can pick him.

Raiders did this with Marinovich, however it didn’t work out too well for them.

by Trojan Knight on Jan 20, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions  

I would love to get Locker

But it would take a complete collapse, to an even lower level than this year, or a miracle/costly trade.

by stufr on Jan 20, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not worried about his contract

Its getting ourselves into a position to draft him. I think its safe to say that he will be a top 5 draft choice. If he improves, like most think he will, he will probably be #1 or 2 depending on who is there.

by stufr on Jan 20, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

yeah - she was the one with the normal sized ass

That is a rare talent for softball players, now I remember her – the Softball playoffs that was on the t.v. that one day when I was at the gym.

Give me an offensive line or give me death!

by Generzal Zod on Jan 20, 2010 11:37 PM PST up reply actions  

And he's a strong Christian so...

yeah…

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Jan 20, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Locker was smart to stay another year

I think the year with Sark will do him a lot of good. I am of the belief that we won’t be picking at 32 unless we do some trading this year and I am okay with that.

Spring cleaning has started early this year!

by Generzal Zod on Jan 20, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I was hoping to find this information

but it wasn’t as easy as I had hoped. I’ll dig around more though.

I’m guessing that most of the guys who didn’t end up at USC were of similar builds and just decided that the playing time wasn’t going to be there for them. Unlike say WR or RB Pete only changed QBs due to injury, graduation or going pro not effectiveness.

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by bluemax on Jan 20, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Interesting analysis and would love to see more

Not sure I agree that Clausen has the cannon arm. Seemed to me that his receivers were constantly fighting for the long-balls in traffic after he floated it. Short to medium he seemed to be adequate, and he threw a lot of short passes. Sounds like I’m describing Hass.

by diehard82 on Jan 20, 2010 9:28 AM PST reply actions  

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that Clausen had that arm

but I thought that his make up and other abilities weren’t far off from a guy like Booty. Plus he has that kind of fiery make up that Pete seems to like.

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by bluemax on Jan 20, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

If Pete wants a strong arm,

Jake Locker has one. I’m torn, my head is saying draft Clausen/Bradford this year because they are both very solid QBs and we have the chance to get them. My heart is telling me, draft a good supporting cast this year, do everything possible to get Locker next year.

by LantermanC on Jan 20, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm in the exact same boat, LantermanC.

If Locker were drafted by the Hawks he would absolutely own this town and I’d be glad for it.

by Bildo on Jan 20, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I think we need to go for two stud tackles

I don’t want a new QB yet – I am not sold on any of these guys. I want a line
I love Locker (even as a Duck) I think with a good line and running game he can come in and start and we can develop him the right way. If we go defense and the take Locker then we may as well call Joey Harrington to fill him in on how to have a decent career handling a clipboard.

Spring cleaning has started early this year!

by Generzal Zod on Jan 20, 2010 6:34 PM PST up reply actions  

If we're going to develop him the right way

that means letting him sit behind a savvy veteran for a year or three. And as much as I’d love two stud tackles, they’re not going to be found in this year’s draft. This isn’t really a great draft for OTs. Okung would have been a second rounder in last year’s draft.

by Bildo on Jan 21, 2010 6:08 AM PST up reply actions  

I almost agree with this

based solely on my irrational dislike for Clausen, and my doubts on all other QB prospects.

by DJ C-Raig on Jan 20, 2010 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

I would agree with this

If I thought there was any chance of us getting the #1 pick in the draft next year.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Jan 20, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions  

One of my favorites!

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Jan 20, 2010 12:57 PM PST up reply actions  

It's possible

we have a lot of unknowns. Oh yeah Clausen reminds of Leonardo DiCaprio as Arnie Grape for some reason.

Spring cleaning has started early this year!

by Generzal Zod on Jan 20, 2010 6:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Clausen can't throw the long ball

You can argue weather his slingy/sidearm release matters, I don’t know if it does, but he hangs up the long ball. Clausen needs to be in a dink and dunk offense, not somewhere that he needs to sling it deep.

by stufr on Jan 20, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Interesting

since this is pretty much exactly what we’ll be doing this year. Just look at Hasselbeck, even in his best years his ability to throw the long ball has been questionable at best.

by Bildo on Jan 20, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

What I mean is

Do we want to sign up for a quarterback who can’t throw the long ball? An arguement can be made in either direction, but its worth talking about.

by stufr on Jan 20, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree.

My standpoint is this: Ability to throw the long ball doesn’t mean much. I’d rather have a QB with accuracy, pocket awareness, adequate mobility, toughness (mental and physical), leadership and a chicken-dick arm than a rocket-armed QB who can’t hit his receivers, takes unnecessary sacks, moves like a robot, so forth and so on.

Mark Sanchez vs JaMarcus Russell. Pick one.

We’re not at the point where we’re comparing Clausen to Chad Pennington. The vast majority of QBs coming out of college aren’t going to have the shoulder mounted football cannon of a Cutler or a Stafford. Clausen’s arm strength is pro average at best and a little bit under pro average at worst.

by Bildo on Jan 20, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Chicken dick, that's a new one.

My thing with arm strength is this, it is generally overrated, but if it’s to the point where the safeties don’t have to cover the deep ball and the CBs don’t have to worry about the WRs burning them deep, then it can be a problem.

by LantermanC on Jan 20, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

And I don't just mean the arm strength to throw it 40 yards.

Every QB can do that. I mean the arm strength to throw it 30+ yards with enough zip or accuracy to keep the defense honest.

by LantermanC on Jan 20, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think this is true.

Notre Dame did more than dink and dunk. He has an average, capable arm.

Sometimes it feels like it’s gotten to the point where everyone thinks every QB has a weak arm unless they are JaMarcus Russell or Matt Stafford.

Even more vertical offenses don’t sling it deep a ton; it’s still a smaller percentage of all plays, and often times hang-time is not an integral factor. It’s still a significant factor, but Brady’s deep passes can really loft, but are way deep, and Moss just runs under them.

by jacobstevens on Jan 20, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

I like this post because it agrees with my views

Kidding, of course.

Great writeup! Any chance to get in someone’s head is something I like to read.

Unless Clausen (or Suh) flop at the combine, I have a hard time believing the Hawks don’t take him at 6. I’m still not convinced that the Rams or Skins draft a QB this year, especially with the other talent that’ll be available at #1 and #4.

6/14/40. Sweet.

by Nick Andron on Jan 20, 2010 10:23 AM PST reply actions  

The Rams need a QB

But I have this feeling they’ll take Tony Pike.

Their offense is talent poor however.

2010 Seahawks Goals: Master the forward pass, sack the QB, and knock Arizona off their perch.

by SSreporters on Jan 20, 2010 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I assume you mean take

Tony Pike in the second round. If they took him in the first I’m pretty sure my head would implode.

by Bildo on Jan 20, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions  

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