Some Final Thoughts on Marshawn Lynch Versus the Patriots
I was watching the Ravens this past week, sort of in a Sunday morning stupor, and the play-by-play guy said that Rice looked like he had been shot out of a cannon. I like that. I've heard it before, but I like it because what is explosiveness if not sudden acceleration?
Marshawn Lynch is not explosive like Ray Rice.
Later I watched some Bills-Jaguars highlights because I have taken an interest in Ryan Fitzpatrick. Fitzpatrick could knock Buffalo out of the quarterback sweepstakes, and a game like last week's is why. I was a little snookered on tripel, but I don't think that's what made this so impressive.
Marshawn Lynch is not a moves back like Fred Jackson.
Whiskey Chainsaw suggested Lynch reminds him of Marion Barber. Barber was one of the more fun, better highlight producing backs of the last five years. He was never super quick, and he didn't juke people out of their shoes, but man does he like to initiate contact and pop defenders. That's also probably why, just 27 and having never topped 250 carries in a season, Barber looks well on his way out of the NFL.
Marshawn Lynch is not a berserker like Marion Barber.
While watching Lynch versus the Patriots, I thought quite a bit about what Lynch is. What abilities and skills define Marshawn Lynch?
Rice, Jackson and Barber are all committee backs with a few special traits, that are very valuable to their teams and have each achieved starter status, but are not three down backs. Is that important? Is it important that a player is a three down back? A lot of coaches prefer a player they can stick with, that can succeed in every formation, every down and distance and carry after carry, because it doesn't betray tendencies, run or pass, strong side or weak side, draw or play-action bomb. I don't know if that is an essential consideration. Obviously, Rice, Jackson and Barber have succeeded, and Rice and Barber's teams and offenses have succeeded. But it is a point in favor of Lynch. Lynch can do a little of everything, though I don't know a ton about his pass blocking ability, and do a little of everything well.
The very best backs are like Lynch. No one needed to spell or substitute for a young LaDainian Tomlinson or a young Marshall Faulk. I think that sense that Lynch has no limitations, not prominent weaknesses, is part of why he was and is so highly valued. He has the profile of a great back, whether he is or not. Willis McGahee had the profile of a great back too and now he's backing up Rice.
Fans of this trade have to hope there's untapped potential, and maybe there is. His skills as cutback runner, a slasher with power, could translate to a zone blocking scheme, assuming his acceleration is adequate. I am not sure it is but excited to find out. Lynch doesn't look fast. He sort of glides like Tomlinson, slashes like Edgerrin James, but he doesn't pop even on his more impressive runs. There isn't that one defining ability that stands out, and, a bit like Tomlinson and James, he doesn't fill up a highlight reel. There isn't the ooh and the aah of explosiveness, moves or pure sadistic power. There's a little bit of explosion, some subtle moves and more than enough pop to push a pile.
This was my favorite play by Lynch. You see the essential Lynch: slash right, breaks a couple ankle tackles, burst of speed, lowers the shoulder, spins, fights through three defenders and is tackled. His shoulders are square the entire run. He slows and accelerates in time with his blockers, setting up lanes and attacking when they open. But it's also a big hole, achieved against a nickel 3-3 defense, and instead of hitting fast forward like Chris Johnson, Lynch is corralled after a relatively short gain.
I don't know that Seattle needed a three down back, but they have one now. I don't know that Lynch is necessarily built for a zone blocking scheme, whatever he executed in college. I don't know that a player like Lynch has much value above and beyond a committee of complementary backs, but there is no limit to his potential like there is for Justin Forsett. Marshawn Lynch can be great, and finding out if he is will be a hell of a ride.
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So you think he's limited in initial burst? A ton of comparisons to Alexander have been made
Because body wise and 40 time wise they are extremely similar. So is Lynch more Talented than Alexander circa 2002 or less so?
by Joshua Kasparek on Oct 12, 2010 6:00 PM PDT reply actions
I personally think Lynch runs "meaner" than Shaun ever did.
He certainly reminds me more of Barber than Shaun. Shaun was liquid smooth. Marshawn is Beast Mode, and the nickname does fit, on and off the field. Shaun was far more subtle a runner.
Although I will grant that perhaps Barber could be Beastiest Mode.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 12, 2010 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions
We'll wheel an outhouse and shower unit to the sideline. Provide catering.
So you can stay on the field.
by jacobstevens on Oct 12, 2010 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Lynch's strengths are deceptive when analyzing him...
he doesn’t “appear” to do anything great, and yet (in composite) he looks like he could be. I’ll tell you who he reminds me of…
Barry Foster of the Steelers several years back.
not a speed back
not a power back
…just seems to “glide” through holes and remain productive. It could be a testament to his vision, which doesn’t always translate on tape.
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
PS: Screen name isn't what you think it means.
"Deceptive" became a key word in describing the 2005 Alexander.
He was stronger and faster and shiftier than most people could readily see. So the Alexander comparason may be the most valid. Except Marshawn can catch the football.
by broadbill birdwatcher on Oct 12, 2010 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions
So could Shaun.
Covets: Mark Ingram, Marcell Dareus, Prince Amukamara, Rodney Hudson, and Owen Marecic.
by Carl Shinyama on Oct 12, 2010 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions
and his first 3 years in the league
From The Hawks Nest - Seahawks Podcast
http://www.http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/from-the-hawks-nest/id385227705
by Hancock.Brett on Oct 12, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually... now that I think about it...
reminds me of a young – - poor mans Edge James.
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
PS: Screen name isn't what you think it means.
I can't remember where I read the comparison, but someone else in media said Edge.
Said they both kind of “Paw the ground” and pop defenders, and keep balance in similar ways. Lik
I have always loved the way that the Montana Grizzly Bear pops defenders...
(can I please include one of these annoying chat smileys
:)
so he knows I’m just teasing)?
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
PS: Screen name isn't what you think it means.
Also... where does "Beast Mode" come from...
I see some good contact at times, but not in the Marion Barber “Pinball” mode….
I just dont see him as a “beast mode” battering ram type….
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
PS: Screen name isn't what you think it means.
He created beast mode himself
It’s how he describes his style when he gets going. “bringing the beast mode”. Or beef moe. Whichever.
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 12, 2010 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I see...
Do you buy into it? I can see that he transforms at times… but I just dont see “Jerome Bettis” in him.
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
PS: Screen name isn't what you think it means.
I NEVER saw "Jerome Bettis" in Jerome Bettis.
I happen to think he’s the most overrated back in the history of the NFL. His numbers seem more a gift of time and opportunity than actual earned and fought for statistics.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 12, 2010 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow! Really?
I saw something completely different in Bettis. You know what they say about “eye of the beholder” I guess….
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
PS: Screen name isn't what you think it means.
The same can be said for several Steelers,
especially their running backs. Franco Harris anyone?
Beast Mode Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUAe9ZZ7AuU&feature=player_embedded
Start Charlie Whitehurst. / #24 = Beast Mode! Welcome, Marshawn
John will end up being wrong on this one.
“An explosive runner with top-tier speed and power. Has a burst through the hole and in the open field. Has good receiving skills and can be dangerous after the catch.”
—SBnation scouting report
Guy is a 2 time pro-bowler and John is talking about untapped potential. LOL!
Then in John’s “favorite play” he sheds two tacklers at the line, and eventually it takes three men to bring him down.
Love your posts John, but you’re wrong on this.
Please no
-Chatspeak
-Arrogance on you “knowing” / others surely being “wrong” (we’re all conjecturing here, and he’s at least going by tape, not popularity contests)
-Berating the messiah
Plus, you quoted a scouting report from who-knows-how-long-ago. It very well may have been a college scouting report, where his physical excellence would be far more emphasized than at the professional level. In the same report, it says:
* Above-average starting tailback (when healthy and focused).
* Awards
Not saying it’s wrong, but of course his career potential is awards that he already has.
by Stay Off the Flowers on Oct 12, 2010 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Please yes and a LOL
John stated several things as fact in this piece, when they are highly subjective ( i.e. ML isn’t “explosive”). Sounds like your problem is with John. I merely stated my opinion that he is wrong. I don’t think John is “arrogant” to state his subjective opinions as fact, nor was I “berating” him for having an opinion I disagree with. If you disagree with something I said, then it would behoove you to make an argument instead of doing the fanboy thing.
I quoted the scouting report that John linked to in the article. Again, take any issues with that report up with Mr. Morgan, since he linked to it.
Now the “untapped potential” comment is clearly off-base. 24-year-old two-time pro-bowlers have “tapped potential,” not the “untapped” variety. That is undeniably factual.
by dingoeatbaby on Oct 12, 2010 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Fair enough
I guess I just didn’t like the tone of the piece, especially with the LOL. Who the hell really laughs out loud?
“Untapped potential” is not off-base. Being on a bad team can prevent potential from being exposed properly, regardless of pro bowls (in 2009, he was an injury replacement to CJ2K, and I don’t really trust much pro bowl voting nor do I care). With a proper line or great surrounding offense in general, many players’ stats can be misleading. It moves the other way, too. There is much room for growth in a 24-yr old running back. If 1000 yards a season was his ceiling, would we have given up a 4th and a conditional for him? I don’t think any rebuilding team would trade such a high pick for a ‘known quantity’.
John did not link to that article. SB Nation does that for almost every player in every article. That is the only undeniable factual statement in my post. By the way, I was joking calling him the messiah. Disagreeing is part of the discussion, it’s all about how it’s said, though.
by Stay Off the Flowers on Oct 12, 2010 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's not what John said.
Marshawn Lynch is not explosive like Ray Rice.
John simply says that Lynch is the jack-of-all-trades, master of none. For that reason, he is the quintessential three-down back.
there is no limit to his potential like there is for Justin Forsett.
Forsett can never be an every-down back and amass more than 1000 yards. Playing on a functional offense, Lynch still has the potential above and beyond the performance of his previous seasons.
by aerozeppelin on Oct 12, 2010 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
This topic reads like another 'temper expectations and hope for the best' post.
Not that it’s bad or anything. Just that it’s more realistic and calm vs. the joy and enthusiasm I have for our addition of Lynch. I’m excited! I’ve been following him since the NFL Combine of his draft year (and perhaps a bit of his college work, too). I agree that he might not be a superstar.
He could be the next Ricky Watters or Chris Warren, though, and that would still be a huge improvement from what we’ve had since Alexander’s skills played a game of hide-and-seek and were never found.
Start Charlie Whitehurst. / #24 = Beast Mode! Welcome, Marshawn
Marshawn Lynch is very average.
The film doesn’t lie. He doesn’t have much of a burst and he isn’t explosive, evidenced by his 4.0 yards per carry career avg. He isn’t big enough to be a true pile mover and isn’t fast enough to be a breakaway threat. I would also question his vision.
He gets an asterisk for producing decent numbers on a bad Buffalo team, but I don’t see anything in his game that compels me to predict he’ll solve our running woes.
At this point, average is a major upgrade over piddling.
And frankly, I’ve seen plenty of NFL backs that either have the size and power, but not the quick feet, or the quick feet without the size or power. Nice to have both in the same package, even if he might be too much Jack of all trades, master of none.
Everyone keeps looking for the home run hitter. Home runs are rare and special against professional opposition. Hit a lot of doubles and you’ll score a hell of a lot more points than the occasional home run. I would be very happy to see a lot of those 16 yard “didn’t get much” plays, thank you.
One of the biggest problems we’ve had since Alexander’s career tanked is eating enough clock to rest the D, and holding onto a lead once we have it. A back big enough, quick enough, and shifty enough to do that will make for lots more Ws.
Besides turnover ratio, for my money, time of possession and 3rd down conversion rate are the other stats that measure whether a team has a chance to succeed. Beastie will provide a fair increase in both of those stats, so I’m glad to have him.
by bleedshawkblue on Oct 12, 2010 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Julius Jones was average.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Who are you calling Buddy, Guy!?!!
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 12, 2010 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Watch your step Bub..
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
PS: Screen name isn't what you think it means.
Why don't you watch yours, Man
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 12, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey I'm just minding my own business Pal !!
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
PS: Screen name isn't what you think it means.
Then you can come and get some too Mac.
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
PS: Screen name isn't what you think it means.
I think they're quoting something you and I are ignorant of.
Or maybe you are too? How to navigate this referential culture.
inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
I have no idea what you're talking about,
Dude.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 12, 2010 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not your homie, Hombre.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 12, 2010 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I can do this all day Jack!
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
PS: Screen name isn't what you think it means.
by iverson2169 on Oct 12, 2010 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
thats we've been trying to tell him partner
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
PS: Screen name isn't what you think it means.
by iverson2169 on Oct 12, 2010 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not your friend, Buddy!
2 quick q’s
1)has lynch been assigned a # yet?
2)does vancouver (bc) tv broadcast seahawks football or am i gonna hafta find a sports bar up there this weekend?
I'm not your buddy, pall!
Lynch is #24
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 12, 2010 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Beast Wars
When the animals in the cartoon “Beast Wars” had to kick-ass they transformed to “Beast-Mode”
Love that show.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
If memory serves at Cal, Lynch was very good catching the ball out of the backfield
He caught 34 balls his last year at Cal (9.6 yards per). In Buffalo he caught 18, 47, and 28 balls for 10.2, 6.4, and 6.4 yards per respectively.
As much as Carlson has to stay in and help on the ends Lynch seems like he will bring something to the table in the passing game, though Forsett arguably more (if you leave out blocking).
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
2 cents from a Bills fan
Hey Guys,
On potential -
On the Rumblings board people speculated that Lynch, with a decent line and a QB who could keep defenses honest could be a 1500 rushing, 350-400 receiving back. 2000 total yards would not be out of the question for him. Its not going to be built on a home run here and there. Its going to be done on 20-25 touches, a few for minimal gain, a few for 15-20 yards. And, he’s got a nose for the end zone.
He is a decent receiver as well as having a good ground game. He didn’t get used too much in the passing game, though in 08, the last year he was our feature back. I don’t know why. Last year he didn’t get used that much because Freddy was more effective on the screens.
Blocking – he was our best blocking back. He puts the same enthusiasm to picking up pass rushers and has the strength to be effective.
Also, don’t let the gold grill and reputation fool you. The rumor is the guy had the second highest wonderlic after Fitzy on the bills. Something ridiculous in the 40’s.
Thanks my little orange friend.
Good info to have. And the wonderlic flat BLEW ME AWAY!!!!
Good luck, you are one of my favorite teams, as I empathize with your devoted fandom and lack of continuous success.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 14, 2010 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
No prob! and Thanks! We need all the well wishing we can get.
I am guardedly hopeful that we will be competitive soon. We’re getting a lot of bad press in the media right now, but the new front office (I think) is better than they are getting credit for. Might be a feel good story in the making.
I’ll be following ‘Hawks, too, now that Beast Mode is there – he’s still on a dynasty league team of mine and this change of scenery is the best thing I could have hoped for! I had Alexander for years and so followed them before as well. :)
Good luck to you guys, too – looks like the NFC West is wide open and there for the taking.
See my comment directly below, which for some reason didn't show up as a reply to you here.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 14, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Marshawn Lynch never struck me as dumb
But rather fairly intelligent but just not taking himself too seriously.
Love guys like those.
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 14, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Decent line and a QB?
Damnit, we’re fucked.
by B.B.Finnegan on Oct 14, 2010 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Hope so, though we look to be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in regard to winning the division.
FYI, please use the subject line here, they request it as it makes it easier for mods to track conversations. It’s in our site guidelines, though I don’t have the link handy. Basic summary though, “No chatspeak” and “Use the subject line.” You stick with that and keep adding positive input to the conversation, you’ll always be welcome.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 14, 2010 11:19 AM PDT reply actions
uck. Reply fail.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 14, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions

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