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Mike Williams, His Potential and His Ability

Talent, skill, ability, or just one more dropped pass?

So someone attempted to catch me in a contradiction in yesterday's postgame thread. It's funny to me, both colloquially "funny" and actual "haha" funny, because the two quotes he picked out were not actually at all contradictory. Like I said, that's funny because -- and here's a dirty little secret I'll let you all in on because we're all friends, right? -- I do sometimes contradict myself. Even worse, sometimes, I am wrong. Like, really wrong.

I know, I know and here I am sitting beside a marble statue of myself, cussing the world and all its idiots and the worn out "i" key on my laptop, and, let me say, more than a little aghast that anyone would question my Word.

But I don't think I am wrong about the potential of Mike Williams. I think he could fit somewhere within that nebulous body that is the top five wide receivers in the NFL. To make that make sense, we need to define some ideas.

First, what is potential, talent and how does it differ from ability, performance. It seems simple enough, but it's not.

Star-divide

For instance, if we take two names from Seahawks lore, Steve Largent and Joey Galloway, which of those two players would we say was more talented?

Largent was selected in the fourth round of the 1976 NFL draft by the Houston Oilers and then traded to Seattle for an eighth round pick in the 1977 draft. He was not big, did not jump particularly high, he wasn't exceptionally fast, though he was quick, but it wasn't like Largent succeeded soly because of guile and hard work. Largent was certainly talented.

He was coordinated and understood spacing exceptionally well. Do we think of that latter quality, the ability to anticipate coverage and adjust to it, as a talent or a skill? It's not a talent like jumping very high is a talent, but there was certainly something within Largent that allowed him to learn and develop an essential skill faster and to a greater extent than almost any of his peers.

He had great timing and concentration and that gave him some of the most reliable hands in the history of the NFL. "Hands" are often categorized as a talent, but "hands" as we perceive it, the ability to reliably catch a pass plus the ability to make tough catches, is really an umbrella term for disparate skills and talents. Largent's ability to read a defense allowed him to get separation and that allowed him to create more opportunities for easy catches. Great wide receivers are not always making great, Brandon Lloyd-esque catches. Great wide receivers make easy catches by making catches easy, through route running, timing, positioning and reading coverage.

Galloway was selected eighth overall in 1995 in what turned out to be a very weak class for wide receivers. I don't have official NFL Combine data, but I do have memories, and I remember that Galloway was athletic, and explosive and fast like you wouldn't believe. Moon to Galloway are some of my first, best memories of the Seahawks. But in his five seasons in Seattle and first ten seasons in the league, Galloway was only moderately successful.

I am not implying that numbers perfectly capture the value of an individual player or that Galloway should have somehow overcome the mediocre passing offenses he played for, but in his five seasons in Seattle, passes targeting Galloway only once finished in the top ten in DYAR. The reason seems to be, most basically, in his five seasons in Seattle Galloway never converted more than 50% of his targets into completions.

So, we have Steve Largent, not big or fast or an athletic marvel, but he excels because he seems to play football in a way that's smarter than other players. And then we have Joey Galloway, fast as light and an athletic marvel, and he doesn't excel, and though Galloway was incredibly talented, he never excelled like Largent, and it's less clear why. It's as if, as surely as Largent played the game "the right way," Galloway played it "the wrong way."

So who is more talented? And is either more talented than Mike Williams?

The short answer is I don't know.

The long answer is that tools and skills are not discrete but more like a spectrum. Size, for instance, height, arm length, hand size, frame, etc, is a pure tool. You can add bulk but you can't lift until you're taller. Nearly as pure is straight line speed, but even that, from improving quickness off the snap to improving running mechanics, can be tweaked and improved upon. At the complete other end of the spectrum is raw effort. Maybe it's somewhat naive, but studying hard, running every route, hustling back into broken plays, that's all stuff I think any player is innately capable of, but that some players are better at than others.

So what is Mike Williams ability and what is Mike Williams potential?

Williams is big, along with Brandon Marshall, one of the biggest wide receivers in the NFL. He is tall and has long arms and with any kind of leaping ability, he should be exceptional at catching jump balls. His size also allows him to shield corners, practically any corner, and pluck receptions away from his body, creating a passing window without creating separation. Size and physical presence are Williams' two greatest assets and will last throughout his career.

Williams is also very coordinated, especially for someone as large as he is. I don't know exactly why smaller players seem to be more coordinated, better able to cut, run routes, redirect and move at angles, but it's probably because they have a lower center of gravity and produce less inertia. Williams, however, moves like a dancer. His mix of size and body control remind me of Antonio Gates.

Williams also has pretty good leg drive, power, jumping ability (if this is to be believed) and is, and this is strange for someone so tall, seemingly more quick than fast.

Those tools sort of define his potential, or seem to. His ability probably should define his potential, because it's what he's actually building on and not something abstract like "body control", but ability is harder to nail down.

Williams is a sick route runner. He doesn't need to separate as well as he does, but he does. Route running is an ability that also expresses talent. It's an application of talent achieved through practice. And Mike puts DBs on roller skates. He breaks quickly and cleanly and doesn't betray his route, and the effect is consistent separation.

His hands are a bit uneven, which seems counterintuitive to ridiculous. His hands are huge and powerful and snatch regulation footballs out of space like bio-mechanical machines made to snatch regulation footballs out of space. But his mind doesn't always serve his hands, and his hands don't always serve his quarterback. Mike drops some passes. He drops some easy passes. He drops some passes over the middle and in traffic. Is it a lapse in concentration? Probably. Is it a "skill" error that Williams can overcome through experience and hard work? I do not know.

Whatever it is, it, along with speed, are the two major limitations to his potential. Which isn't damning. Calvin Johnson suffers concentration lapses and Larry Fitzgerald isn't ridiculously fast, and neither is as big or as potentially physically dominant as Williams. So to say he can not be the perfect receiver is not to say he can not be the absolute best receiver in the NFL.

Which, can he be?

That brings us back to Largent and Galloway. Galloway will always seem like the more talented of the two. Maybe if Galloway joined the league when Largent did, before rule changes and Bill Walsh changed the modern passing game, he would have been the better receiver. Maybe, if this hypothetical Galloway was drafted by the Denver Broncos and received for John Elway, he would be in Canton today. But though Galloway was maybe, maybe maybe maybe, more talented than Largent, he was not better than Largent. We can say that Largent fulfilled his potential, exceed it if that even makes sense, and that Galloway underperformed because of circumstance and, well, whatever, skills. But it's entirely possible that Largent was just better, better in ways that can not be timed or measured but are tangible, able to be seen and understood and qualified.

So, I think Williams is the most talented wide receiver in the history of the Seattle Seahawks. I think he is because his size and power and coordination and quickness, and also because his combination of talent and skills seem so perfect for the modern NFL and its emphasis on passing and its prohibition of contact by defenders, but we will never really know, even after all the games are played. It's enough that it's possible.

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Are Mike's eyes closed

in that picture? It’s easier to catch the ball with your eyes open Mike. I am not going to get in any debate over past receivers but I agree with your assement of his potential.

by nated on Oct 25, 2010 2:54 PM PDT reply actions  

There's This Mythical Thing Called Hand-Eye Co-Ordination

Ichiro’s got it. Everyone who’s watched him play knows it. He has an uncanny ability to put a bat on a ball. And yet, this isn’t really a “skill”, although it’s been refined through hours and hours of repetition and practice. It’s an innate talent.

I bring this up because of a line in your post: “His hands are huge and powerful and snatch regulation footballs out of space like bio-mechanical machines made to snatch regulation footballs out of space. But his mind doesn’t always serve his hands, and his hands don’t always serve his quarterback.” Maybe Mike Williams has a bit of a disconnect between his head and his hands. Maybe that “mythical” hand-eye co-ordination is not his strong suit.

I don’t say this to be critical- either of Williams or your post. I’m just thinking out loud more than anything. It sounds like that’s the one thing that could hang up, “Mike Williams, Pro Bowl Seahawk.” It’ll make him infuriating at times, when he drops that easy one. But man, I think about the touchdown catch yesterday and I suddenly don’t care about the occasional easy drop.

by robbbbbb on Oct 25, 2010 2:57 PM PDT reply actions  

They always look more like mental mistakes to me.

WR’s are doing a lot of things while catching a football and I’m sure it’s easy to concentrate on what’s ahead instead of the ball.

by MT Olson on Oct 25, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe; Maybe Not

I’d considered putting this one on my original comment, but I’ll add it here:

I’ve got a special interest in this sort of thing. My Dad’s dyslexic. There’s some disconnect between his eyes and his brain (or between two different parts of his brain) that keeps him from seeing letters correctly sometimes. This has absolutely no bearing on other spatial skills. Dad’s got the carpenter’s eye; the ability to see right where things come together and to make it work out right. And there’s absolutely nothing Dad can do to make it better. No amount of effort on his part will make reading easier for him. He can’t practice his way out of it.

And I’m sure there are football players who have similar problems. Heck, people in all walks of life. What I’m driving at is: Maybe these aren’t mental mistakes on Williams’ part, just part of the package that is Mike Williams, NFL Receiver. Ask yourself: Can you live with that total package? I sure can.

by robbbbbb on Oct 25, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That would still fall under "hand-eye coordination.

Unless you’re expressing mental mistakes as conscious; hand-eye, to me, is unconscious, or maybe more aptly, subconscious.

by THolt on Oct 25, 2010 9:52 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I do actually.

Not that any of this is quantifiable.

by MT Olson on Oct 26, 2010 5:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

There is also the myth of soft hands

I don’t think lotion has anything to do with it. It is the undefinable ability to control the smallest amount of hand movement in relation to the ball as it moves through the air. Anyone can get their hands near the ball. Most can knock it down or catch it with their bodies. There aren’t many who can display “soft” hands and squeeze the ball out of the air. That is a skill/talent that can’t be taught, or at least not easily, its like trying to teach fast.

by stufr on Oct 26, 2010 4:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

What a beautiful summation.

Your ability to view football in all of it’s gray and uncertainty as opposed to how the headlines and media blowhards would have you see it is a great strength. It makes your writing fresh and your perspective valuable. Thank you.

by TheBishop on Oct 25, 2010 2:59 PM PDT reply actions  

if you were any more flattering

I’d say you were John using a fake profile.

Still it was a righteous clarification. The guy who posted the contradiction mighta been sippin’ his own cool aid too much. Go Squawks n’shit…

Beam yourself up

I'm a one man rec'n crew

by jubelthebear on Oct 25, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

The world is full of binary thinkers.

It’s nice to see someone, especially in the meathead filled world of sports, focus more on content than bluster.

by TheBishop on Oct 25, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Does Williams remind anyone else of Sterling Sharpe?

I know Williams is taller, but Sharpe was great at using his body to shield DBs and was constantly getting those 8-12 yard quick passes.

by Jed MC on Oct 25, 2010 3:10 PM PDT reply actions  

I was thinking Plex, pre-shooting.

Most of my cliches aren't original.

- Chuck Knox

by Azimeir on Oct 25, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Plax was rail thin, though.

BMW was always solid-thick.

David Boston ability, but realized this time around.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 26, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think BMW is the most talented receiver in team history

If we’re talking about pure physical makeup and ability. Galloway a close second and I would throw Daryl Turner in there too. Galloway may have been just a little faster than Turner, but Turner was a taller, bigger deep target.

I watched Largent a ton when I was but a lad growing up and have to qualify some of the characterization above. Largent was an highly intelligent football player with uncommon awareness and consistency. He could do all of what you describe, but in addition to getting separation through perfect route-running and catching everything thrown at him, he could and did make the difficult and impossible catches too. If he was anywhere near the ball he would go around, over or under anyone to win it, and make the diving catch, the tightrope catch and every other kind of catch. He always got the scrappy-white-guy-workingman rep because that’s what he looks like but he had real athletic talent.

by lemonverbena on Oct 25, 2010 3:20 PM PDT reply actions  

I'll have to agree with you....

Although I’m too young to really have seen Largent on a consistent basis. I’ve only seen highlights, but the ones I’ve seen scream athleticism.

by skwid206 on Oct 25, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yikes. I must be older than I thought.

Sorry for straying off topic, but it’s hit me lately that I must be a lot older than many of the other folks on this forum. (I’m 42.) We moved to Seattle in ’77, so I grew up watching Zorn and Largent and all the great ones after that. Fun memories.

As for Largent’s athleticism…he was pretty amazing. It must have been pretty frustrating for opposing DB’s to keep getting beat by this little, slow white guy.

by TMann_2 on Oct 25, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Largent was every bit the athlete that Wes Welker is.

And quite probably better. And while Galloway had athletic skills he did not have the awareness to turn those skills to his advantage as a reciever.

Oh yeah, Mike Williams could very well be the best reciever in Hawks history but the most talanted Seahawks reciever in team history was Koren Robinson. A damn shame the way his career turned out.

by Jack Swan on Oct 26, 2010 4:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Then I must be farting dust

…because 42 makes you 14 years younger than me, and former spouse #1 and I had SEASON TICKETS throughout the Largent/Jimmy Z era. ($10 a game, $280 a season for the pair). (Gawd I AM old!!)

Largent was everything everybody here says he was, but he also benefitted from a longterm pairing with a guy who, like him, wanted to be the best who ever played and was willing to pay whatever price it took to get there.

The work and relentless effort they both put in is legendary. It was like radar with them no matter what scheme the D came up with. Largent was a route-running machine, but if he had to alter or break it off entirely, Zorn knew exactly where he was going and when he was going to get there.

More often than not, Zorn put the ball at the right place at just the right instant for Largent to turn and make the catch. Largent was shifty as hell, not fast but quick, and especially quick changing directions on the fly. He NEVER tipped or sold out his pattern, he never had reliable tells, although he’d sometimes fake one as part of the mind games he’d play with DBs.

But the part Largent couldn’t control — his longterm pairing with a damned good QB — definitely played a part in the story of how a pudgy, smallish, straight-line slow white dude who played receiver ended up in Canton.

Largent stands head, shoulders, belly button and kneecaps above everyone else who’s ever played receiver in Hawks blue.

To JM’s point: I definitely believe Williams has the POTENTIAL to be every bit Largent’s equal, and because of his physical gifts, if he can get the mental game down and sustain the hard work he’s put in for the Hawks so far, potentially surpass the lil chubby white dude as the greatest in Hawks history, even though he probably won’t surpass him in statistics.

by BigUglyFatDude on Oct 26, 2010 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would add

the physical talent for which Lester Hayes always praised Largent: strong ankles. That, according to Hayes, is why he could cut on a dime with no warning and no loss of speed, which was a large part of his ability to separate from defenders.

by The Ancient Mariner on Oct 25, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

If we're talking pure physical talent, then maybe Koren Robinson should be included

Unless you consider “inability to catch passes” and “inability to avoid binge drinking” to be fundamental flaws in his makeup rather than character flaws.

by J.L. White on Oct 25, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

As much as I'm excited about having a giant 6'5" physical freak able to regularly beat single coverage on this team

I’m also worried about getting my hopes up and then having them dashed. He looked awesome yesterday, but he still has a long ways to go before we can trust he’s the long-term answer at #1 WR.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 25, 2010 3:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Anyone else feel like we got 3 top-10 draft picks this year?

The way things are going, it seems like BMW, Thomas, and Okung were all top 10 prospects. I know it’s too soon to judge Okung fairly, but that game against Peppers made me a believer.

It makes sense why he was available (characteristic concerns), but don’t you think the other 31 teams are kicking themselves for not taking a chance? Do you think Carroll was key in resurrecting BMW’s career, or was this inevitable? Is you ask me, it was the perfect storm…

Ka-Kaaa!

by JerryNice on Oct 25, 2010 3:47 PM PDT reply actions  

This FO has been doing pretty well at talent evaluation

Raheem Brock and Chris Clemons looked like afterthoughts but have combined for 8.5 sacks in 6 games. Lawyer Milloy looked old and “veterany” but has proven to be an impact player. There are a lot of fringe players on this team that are making impacts on this team and I think it says a lot for the FO.

Actually, I credit BMW’s success almost entirely to BMW. Carroll and Scheider gave him a chance, but it was BMW how spent 8 months working hard to get into football shape and learning the offense.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 25, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Another cheap 1st round talent

If WTIII keeps improving on what he has already shown he could be considered 1st round talent.

Stick a fork in him - HE IS THROUGH

by eohawkfan on Oct 25, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thurmond looked good out there yesterday.

He did a radio interview for 950 or 710, and afterwards the commentators mentioned that everyone in the organization expected him to be a great draft pick NEXT year, after his knee had had a chance to heal up some more. To have him be playing so well so soon into his rookie year is definitely a gift from the football gods.

by TMann_2 on Oct 25, 2010 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Meh.

Polumbus can’t really run-block that I’ve seen.

And we rocked, and they said that we rocked, and they rejoiced, and there was much rejoicing. Seahawks astride the division at 4-2 and gunning for the lead in the conference. Look out Rodney Harrison.

by Cheddar28 on Oct 26, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

He was considered a 1st rounder until his knee injury

I think by next year he could be playing like one too

by stufr on Oct 26, 2010 4:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Whats the Mike Williams contract situation?

When teams make these free agent pickups in the NFL… not highly publicized, moves that are considered “small” on the grand scheme of free agency, I’m always confused about the ensuing situation. Obviously, at this pace, Williams will want some sort of raise at the end of the year. But how long do the Seahawks own his rights currently?

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 25, 2010 3:52 PM PDT reply actions  

I think its a 1-year minimum

The team can probably franchise him at the end of the year, but they’ll probably hope to extend him earlier than that.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 25, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

That last sentence amazes me.
Seahawks quarterback Matt Hasselbeck has completed 14 of 15 passes for 130 yards when targeting Williams on third down this season.

by Akamu on Oct 25, 2010 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Holy crap.

And we rocked, and they said that we rocked, and they rejoiced, and there was much rejoicing. Seahawks astride the division at 4-2 and gunning for the lead in the conference. Look out Rodney Harrison.

by Cheddar28 on Oct 26, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

"Calvin Johnson suffers concentration lapses and Larry Fitzgerald isn't ridiculously fast, and neither is as big or as potentially physically dominant as Williams."

Calvin Johnson measured out at 6’5" 239 pounds at the combineand ran a 4.35 40 in a pair of borrowed shoes. He also has a 43 inch vertical. Mike Williams measured out at 6’5" 229 with a 4.5 40 and a 36 inch vertical.

I love BMW, but Calvin Johnson has the market closed on the whole physical dominance thing. He’s just as big as BMW, with vastly superior athleticism.

by Culter on Oct 25, 2010 3:52 PM PDT reply actions  

I haven't watched Megatron a ton, but I don't remember him playing nearly as physically as BMW.

He’s a beast going up and getting balls, but he doesn’t seem to use his size or length like Williams does on every play.

by Nate Dogg on Oct 25, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that's partly true.

Megatron probably doesn’t match BMW in the physicality department on every play, but when he’s down in the red zone and working with a short field, he transforms into a different WR. He flat out dominates his man with his size, strength, and leaping ability.

by Culter on Oct 25, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Amen, Brother

Preach the Good Word!

Can I get an A-Men?

by robbbbbb on Oct 25, 2010 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I commented on this on another thread where someone said BMW was the greatest WR prospect in history.

Megatron was so damn good, Detroit of all teams, with a plethora of failed and low performing first round draft pick WR’s, STILL had to take him, and it was a no-brainer.

Megatron = Best prospect ever.
BMW = elite prospect failed and resurrected resurgent american longshot success story all at once.

Dude NEEDS a movie written about his life.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 26, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think John is talking about play style

Mike Williams goes through his man for the ball and seems to be more physical in his play. Calvin Johnson is more like Moss, using his speed and jumping ability rather than his size.

by Built2Spill on Oct 25, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Megatron is VERY physical for a WR.

But BMW plays WR like a TE, only he moves like a WR.

I agree with Morgan, Gates is his best comparable. Megatron is more WR-ish with pure speed and grace.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 26, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

I may be wrong here but didn't M Williams participate in the combine the year he was drafted?

Which means he was out of football for a full year. Who knows what kind of shape he was in.

by farmer cam on Oct 25, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

year after* you mean?

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion... Over the Hawks that is. May they reach unadulterated glory and earn the metonym of "Phoenixes".

by Cheddar28 on Oct 25, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

What's the difference between BMW and a young Keyshawn Johnson?

He’s the only player that I would compare BMW to at this point.

by Culter on Oct 25, 2010 3:54 PM PDT reply actions  

BMW is considerably bigger.

Keshawn Johnson was listed at 6’4" 212.

BMW hasn’t been either 6’4" nor 212, probably since he was 15 or 16.

Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 26, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

the man with magnetronic hands

BMW snagged at least two passes by clamping down on the tail end of the football. What would have squirted out of most people’s grip Williams was able to control…somehow. It makes the should-have-been-easy catches that were dropped all the more perplexing.

(thanks for another great write-up Mr. Morgan)

by jellopolis on Oct 25, 2010 3:57 PM PDT reply actions  

this is what caught my attention yesterday.

I saw at least 2 reception where he caught it at the tail end. The TD reception being the main one of course (see fanshot post right before this one). I hope the Hawks can get this guy on a long term deal. I’m sold on what I’ve seen up to this point.

by grips on Oct 25, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here is a link to a Sando post about his contract

Contract Situation

Looks like the new CBA will determine whether or not his is a UFA or RFA. Worst case he is franchise tag-able…if that makes it into the new CBA.

Okay.... I'm in.

by The Manchild on Oct 25, 2010 4:36 PM PDT reply actions  

I feel 'ya.

What I wrote last night following the game:

He may not have great deep speed, but we can’t really tell for sure with Hasselbeck lobbing the ball. A #1 WR that is a possession guy? Why not? (Echoing John from an earlier post). Similar to guys like Marshall and Fitzgerald – in some respects – not huge yards per catch guys but guys who typically catch it well, have good body-control, catch the ball in traffic, and very hard to defend in the red-zone. So far, this is a hell of a career resurrection. Hopefully, Seattle can retain him.

Start Charlie Whitehurst. / #24 = Beast Mode! Welcome, Marshawn

by Misfit74 on Oct 25, 2010 5:03 PM PDT reply actions  

What if we'd have taken Sanchize last year? Duchebaggery aside,

We’d now have (at least for the time being) A legit #1 WR, a solid rookie LT, a powerful RB, a sometimes elite but always solid CB, and a 1st round ball hawking safety. We’d be called USC North, but we’d be pretty set now.

by Malito on Oct 25, 2010 5:23 PM PDT reply actions  

However, last year would have played out differently.

Mora/Ruskell may still be here and who really knows where this team would be.

by Hopefulmsfan on Oct 26, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

But I get what you're saying.

Hopefully we’ll have an even better QB than that starting next year after the draft.

by Hopefulmsfan on Oct 26, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Honestly, I think Joey Galloway is the most talented receiver in Seahawks history.

But I can understand to a degree the argument for Mike Williams.

Covets: Mark Ingram, Marcell Dareus, Prince Amukamara, Rodney Hudson, and Owen Marecic.

by Carl Shinyama on Oct 26, 2010 12:38 AM PDT reply actions  

My Comment Pissed Everyone Off

And was the one that got this post started, and I have (deservedly) gotten a lot of flak for it. It sounds pretty dick upon rereading. But it was somewhat misunderstood. I didn’t think you had contradicted yourself John, I thought that you had taken an big leap in logic after two great games. After reading this, I still think that.

No question he’s a sick player and very talented, but here’s the thing: there’s no tape on this guy. There’s no scouting report. He’s a new entity and only in the last two games would anyone have gotten the idea that you need to key on him. No one we’ve faced up until now has likely prepped for the game saying “we need to shut down Mike Williams”.

There are a lot of recievers in NFL history that have put together a few dominant games before defenses start to scheme for them. Fitzgerald? Calvin Johnson? Teams double these guys all game, watch hours of film on them, scheme around them – and they STILL produce. Mike Williams has not produced with that kind of attention.

I just think it’s way too early to anoint this guy. Lets see how talented he appears when there is a real scouting report on him. Many wide recievers can have greatness over a few games, few over a few seasons…

I'm a fan of the Ducks, Seahawks, Trailblazers, and... this elephant.

by maxmillian on Oct 26, 2010 11:00 AM PDT reply actions  

I'd also like to say

1. That some of the disses thrown my way were really funny, even to me
2. I’m a big fan of your writing John. I wouldn’t challenge your opinions if I didn’t value them.

I'm a fan of the Ducks, Seahawks, Trailblazers, and... this elephant.

by maxmillian on Oct 26, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good of you to man up and accept responsibility

and I will say that I am in agreeance with you, generally speaking. I need to see what he can do with team’s scheming for him.

That being said, I’m really excited about his potential, what he has done thus far, and as John alluded to in another post, what his arrival does for potentially opening up huge routes for guys like Carlson, Butler, Obamanu, etc.

by Omerta on Oct 26, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought it was pretty dickish

The John Morgan guys puts himself out there in a million ways, with dozens of posts a week, analyzing many players, making some risky calls based on his analysis and his gut. To come in like you did was pretty weak sauce.

by Surf Hawk on Oct 26, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

ya well, its not personal

Although the responses directed at me were. So it goes. I pointed out a leap of logic i thought was hasty, and I pointed it out bluntly. Too bluntly. But it’s debate. What are these message boards here for?

I'm a fan of the Ducks, Seahawks, Trailblazers, and... this elephant.

by maxmillian on Oct 26, 2010 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

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Help Me Understand How Irvin Will be Used
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Hand Size and Quarterbacks
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Should Seattle Go After Kellen Winslow?
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Football where the head is sacred
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What Doug Baldwin Had to Say About Seahawk QBs (or How DB Throws MF Under the Bus)
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Dynasty League Fantasy Football
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Seahawks 2012 Active Roster Predictions
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You should want Flynn to be our starter this year
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Fountain of Eternal Youth: Predicting the Week 1 Seahawks Roster

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