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Around SBN: How The Kings Beat The Coyotes: Lather, Rinse, Repeat

Bills at Patriots: Marshawn Lynch

The Patriots rank 23rd in rush defense as measured by both DVOA and DRUN Efficiency and 24th by yards per attempt allowed. So, without better information to trump those stats, we can be pretty sure New England fields a below average run defense. The Bills rank sixth in yards per attempt, seventh in ORUN and 13th in DVOA, so without better information, we can be pretty sure the Bills field an above average run offense. By DYAR and Expected Points Added, Lynch is sandwiched between former teammate Fred Jackson and C.J. Spiller as the second most valuable per rush back in Buffalo's backfield.

None of that is meant as definitive or an attempt to project Lynch's value to Seattle, but only to frame the analysis I am about to attempt. Lynch was the second best rusher on an above average rushing offense playing against a below average Patriots defense. From what I have watched, Lynch was used in more traditional running formations, I backfields and tight end sets, where Spiller was used in more spread formations and Jackson was used in more third down formations.

In week three's contest in Foxboro, Lynch received 13 of the Bills 24 total offensive rushes. Here's a detailed analysis of his performance.

1-10-BUF 20 (14:56) (Shotgun) 14-R.Fitzpatrick pass short right to 23-M.Lynch to BUF 27 for 7 yards (36-J.Sanders, 51-J.Mayo).

Lynch starts the game split wide in the right slot of a five wide set. The Patriots are in off coverage and Lynch is able to release into his route, a short curl, undefended. He catches, fails to redirect, struggles forward and finishes for seven. Exceedingly little to see here.

2-3-BUF 27 (14:21) 23-M.Lynch right guard to BUF 33 for 6 yards (51-J.Mayo).

Lynch works out of I formation left. He jab steps left and then cuts right and into and through the hole. He does not look explosive. He kind of glides, shoulders square, good footwork, never looking terribly fast but keeping his momentum directed forward. Lynch looks capable of bursting though the hole and adding yards in the second level, but Jarod Mayo ankle tackles him.

[Out]

Spiller looks quicker, more explosive, but less powerful, more picky and more vulnerable.

[Out]

3-3-BUF 40 (12:33) (Shotgun) 14-R.Fitzpatrick pass short right to 13-St. Johnson to NE 45 for 15 yards (25-P.Chung).

Lynch releases into a route on the right but does not factor.

1-10-NE 45 (11:52) 23-M.Lynch left tackle pushed ob at NE 29 for 16 yards (51-J.Mayo). WATCH HIGHLIGHT

Fullback Corey McIntyre seals the left edge and Lynch has a clean release into the second level. Before he can turn the corner, Brandon Spikes shoots the gap and chases Lynch from behind but Lynch outruns him left and Spikes is left trailing. Lynch is quick running diagonally and keeps his shoulders square, but there's a noticeable uptick in speed when he turns the corner and turns up field. He then slashes away from the safety closing from the third level, exploiting the Roscoe Parrish block, and, nearing the sideline, turns up field and again shows some burst before being forced out of bounds.

This seems to be a quintessential run from Lynch: Good vision, footwork, keeps his shoulders square, good speed to slash, but not a lot of get away speed.

[Time out]

[Out]

Jackson looks plodding, yet ...

2-9-NE 28 (10:40) 23-M.Lynch right tackle to NE 21 for 7 yards (36-J.Sanders, 50-R.Ninkovich)

Lynch starts slight left but cuts back quickly right. He runs off right end between the tight end and the fullback, who has engaged Rob Ninkovich and staggered him. Ninkovich comes off the block and attempts to wrap Lynch high, and that proves fruitless. Lynch continues to churn his legs and eat yards until the Patriots gang tackle and the play is ruled dead. New England stops Lynch's forward progress but fail to wrap and tackle him.

Spiller subs, Fitzpatrick overthrows his receiver and the Bills kick a field goal to pull ahead 3-0.

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The discrepancy between our effectivness on the inside zone compared to the stretch

last year, has seemed to lead us to cling to the inside zone this year too much, and it’s not been as effective. Maybe teams are expecting it, I dunno. A guy who can run the stretch could be exactly what our tackles need to make the entire running game more effective, and in turn support the passing game and defense.

by jacobstevens on Oct 7, 2010 2:42 PM PDT reply actions  

well..

we have been playing 3-4 defensive teams and if you can get the two inside LB’s to drop into coverage, that opens up the inside lanes. But I wonder if the use of the inside run has more to do with that, or if Force’s top speed isn’t enough to get around that edge and dash to make the stretch zone effective… or both?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCK7njbgDO8

Prepare for scare

"It's always a bad play when the other team scores." - John Madden

by jubelthebear on Oct 7, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, maybe the 3-4 defenses have been a reason for it.

Either way, hasn’t been too effective. I think Forsett can run a stretch.

by jacobstevens on Oct 7, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have to go look at all his runs

something I can’t do without DVR, but I know his top speed isn’t stellar. Maybe that’s the problem. If you run inside he can just get to his top speed, hit the hole with his trademark decisiveness and speed then use his elusiveness and agility against slower inside LB’s to get those 5-6 yards.

When you stretch the zone, he has to run “east-west” then cut back or get to that outside edge. Perhaps he can’t do that fast enough to beat quicker outside LBs to make those plays pay off as much as the inside runs… I dunno I haven’t seen enough. Can’t wait to see him & Lynch do their thing though. Go Hawks…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCK7njbgDO8

Prepare for scare

"It's always a bad play when the other team scores." - John Madden

by jubelthebear on Oct 8, 2010 3:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Vision. That's my number one priority.

There’s nothing worse to me than a wasted hole.

by Lanky on Oct 7, 2010 2:43 PM PDT reply actions  

Isn't that what orgies are for?

Michael Robinson leads the Seahawks in completion percentage, yards-per-attempt, and QB rating.

by SSreporters on Oct 7, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lord Hu brings the funny!

inside of a dog it's too dark to read.

by shams on Oct 7, 2010 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

How much will the addition of the Thunder will help the Lightning?

Will the presence of Lynch in the backfield force opposing DC’s to scheme differently than if Forsett/Washington were there? Does this open things up for the little guys or the passing game?

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 7, 2010 2:52 PM PDT reply actions  

That's the big question

And we all pray that the answer is yes.

Lynch isn’t a fearsome back like AP or CJ, but he’s very respectable.

"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM

by Nick Andron on Oct 7, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

What I'm trying to get at

is not that Lynch is anything like being on par with CJ or AP, but that the way a defense tries to defend against CJ is different than the way a defense tries to defend against AP. That having both an “AP-type” and a “CJ-type” on the same team (and maybe in the backfield at the same time) opens up more opportunities for both than there would be on a team with only one type of RB.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 7, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Coordinators will not pre-adjust

If Lynch can run successfully and put Seattle in better down and distance, something Forsett has not proved capable of, it will help the entire offense and encourage opposing coordinators to put a safety in the box.

by John Morgan on Oct 7, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

And, for what it's worth

putting a safety in the box is only one small way a defense works around a productive runner. I use it as shorthand for lot of little things that change when a team has an effective run game.

I would say, though, that in the modern NFL, attempting to salvage an offense through building the run game is putting the cart before the horse. If Lynch proves capable, and the passing offense is still cripplingly inept, Lynch will not prove capable for long.

by John Morgan on Oct 7, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is a question I had been thinking about.

Have our opponents’ defenses played 8-man fronts at all this season during regular downs/distances? I had been thinking that nobody is playing 8 in the box to stop Forsett. He can be brought down with one guy more often than not.

Start Charlie Whitehurst. / #24 = Beast Mode! Welcome, Marshawn

by Misfit74 on Oct 7, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

A successful run game relieves the pressure from an unsuccessful passing game

and it seems a lot easier to build a successful run game than a successful passing game.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 7, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Play-Action

A successful run game opens up play action.

It opens the middle of the field. If the Lber takes 1 or 2 steps forward thinking run, then the slot receiver or tight end can normally find a big soft spot between the LB and S (especially in zone defenses.)

If a safety is in the box and the safety bites on play action you should have both outside receivers one on one with a CB with most probably a deep safety as help. This then gives a favorable match up for the QB, as he can look left and hold the saftey in the middle of the field and throw right. 8 guys biting on play action opens up the vertical passing game. (If Matt can get the ball vertical?)

by Ratman44 on Oct 8, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Especially

If bringing a safety into the box or otherwise focusing defensive manpower near the line of scrimmage to stop an effective rush attack actually brings said manpower within the limited effective range of the quarterback.

I kid, kind of. Having a 2nd and 5 or 6 would be much more suitable for the Seahawks’ penchant for the short passing game than 2nd and 9. And, play action!

by jeager on Oct 7, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thunder/Lightning...

I hate to be a downer, but won’t Lynch be both the Thunder AND the Lightning of the BeastForce combo? He’s 20 lbs bigger and ran a significantly faster 40 at the combine. 4.46, right?

by cro-mag! on Oct 7, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Isn't Forsett "quicker"?

Using that Ferrari vs. Corvette (or in this case, Range Rover) metaphor from a few months ago. I don’t know how to hyperlink this site yet, but:
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2010/5/31/1495463/justin-forsett-is-a-ferrari

by Stay Off the Flowers on Oct 7, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

judging by his stats about 20 more yards on some of his long runs.

I love running in my underwear!

I support us using L. WASH in the Wild Hawk with Forsett and a little Tate.

by BleedGreenandBlue on Oct 7, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dont know.. Each play is separate.

Does Forsett run away from Brandon Spikes? I think speed is a variable that takes players out of position to make a play. While Forsett has to wiggle and jiggle and creates angles. Lynch has to too but also has the ability to outrun some of the mid-level players but couldnt get past someone with elite speed, untill he lowers his shoulder and blows him up or escapes an ankle tackle.

I love Forsett but Ive never seen him outrun a midlevel guy he jukes them out of their socks with his quickness. I think 40 time can be a hint to why this happens when watching a live football play, Forsetts longest run is like 35 yards where Lynch has been in the 50s… But I agree that football is a different animal than a singular example of running in your underwear and timing it.

I support us using L. WASH in the Wild Hawk with Forsett and a little Tate.

by BleedGreenandBlue on Oct 7, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

No doubt Forsett gets caught from behind

Bill Barnwell, of Football Outsiders, explains here that RBs’ “speed score” (a combination of their pre-draft 40 speed and weight) are correlated with NFL success:

http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/predraft/2009/04/in-the-cattle-call-that.html

This correlation breaks down, however, when evaluating RBs like Forsett who depend on their shiftiness and versality but lack pure straight-ahead speed.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 7, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Forsett gets run down in general (not necessarily by Brandon Spikes)

He doesn’t have the top end speed to be able to outrun DBs (otherwise I think he’d have a few more TDs), but he does have a quickness and shiftiness that Lynch may not have.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 7, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha, Javarris Williams is on our practice squad and we just cut Chris Henry

I support us using L. WASH in the Wild Hawk with Forsett and a little Tate.

by BleedGreenandBlue on Oct 7, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Its interesting to see Brandon Jacobs at the top

too Bad his knees are not doing so hot he was fun to watch like 2 or 3 years ago I think it was.

I support us using L. WASH in the Wild Hawk with Forsett and a little Tate.

by BleedGreenandBlue on Oct 7, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow! Their Top-10 is a Who's Who list of running backs...

I mean literally. Who the hell is that? Never heard of this guy or that one…

Their “correlation” breaks down when applied to any running back.
Something is missing— like talent at the upper end of the list, or seeing some statistical analysis skills.

by Kryten on Oct 7, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's the closest thing we have to an objective measurement of speed

and speed is an important part of succeeding as a running back.

by John Morgan on Oct 7, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think of 40 times like SAT scores

Smart people often have great SAT scores, but not all smart people do. You can benefit significantly from training for the SAT (or the 40), but that training may not necessarily improve your normal day-to-day performance. You can also just wake up on the wrong side of the bed and fuck things up, belying better average performance.

Forsett claims to be able to run about a 4.5 40 and had a bad day at the combine.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 7, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

40 times like SAT scores are standardized and therefore heaps better than what anyone claims to be capable of

Forsett also might claim he could post a 2400 on the SAT, but I would defer to his actual score.

Arguing something isn’t perfect isn’t arguing much. We can’t be absolutely sure that Lynch is faster than Forsett, but it’s probable.

by John Morgan on Oct 7, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

We've seen Forsett break into the open field and quickly be tracked down from behind.

He is shifty and fairly sudden, but he is not third gear fast. You see someone like Adrian Peterson absolutely destroy angles on tacklers. His long run against Detroit was incredible in that regard. He had no business getting up the sideline but just did. Watch here as Eric Weddle closes fairly easily. Forsett doesn’t have breakaway speed.

by abender20 on Oct 7, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

But is Forsett shiftier in the backfield (or faster through the hole) than Lynch in gametime situations? Is that reflected in 40 times? I don’t know.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 7, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh brother this I did not need to see...

Is that Cody?

I support us using L. WASH in the Wild Hawk with Forsett and a little Tate.

by BleedGreenandBlue on Oct 7, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh snap!

thats gotta be hard on the back, I dont normally recommend a breast reduction but if you got the money…

I support us using L. WASH in the Wild Hawk with Forsett and a little Tate.

by BleedGreenandBlue on Oct 7, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

No

Andre Smith. Currently busting with the Bengals.

And before you ask, yes, they’re real

by Thomas Beekers on Oct 7, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha,thanks

I was wondering why he had a bald head. I knew Andre Smith was a bust (pun intended) but I didnt have a bust to put to the frame.

I support us using L. WASH in the Wild Hawk with Forsett and a little Tate.

by BleedGreenandBlue on Oct 7, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

can I get this

in .gif?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCK7njbgDO8

Prepare for scare

"It's always a bad play when the other team scores." - John Madden

by jubelthebear on Oct 8, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

No, but here's the next best thing.

0:16

Thank you, Walter Jones.
Thank you, Ken Griffey Jr.

by thebyron on Oct 9, 2010 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jack Kemp....

I support us using L. WASH in the Wild Hawk with Forsett and a little Tate.

by BleedGreenandBlue on Oct 7, 2010 4:12 PM PDT reply actions  

Stupid three day waiting period.

I know you guys don’t get many Bills games out west, lucky you, so I’ll be of some service. You’re either going to love Marshawn or get incredibly frustrated with him. The first two years of his career he was easily one of the most fun players to watch in the NFL. He hit every hole and opponent hard and was nearly impossible to take down. Yeah, half the time it was only for 3 yards but he’s have 10 guys on his back the whole time and occasionally would find himself 15 yards down the field.

Then everything off the field happened and Buffalo’s very understanding population decided that it was time to run the “thug” out of town, Freddie Jackson started playing incredibly well and Marshawn didn’t. The writing has been on the wall for awhile and I think that’s part of the reason his numbers were down last year and he wasn’t anything spectacular this year. A new team and fresh start is going to be perfect for him and I figure he’ll bounce back strong and you’ll enjoy watching him.

What IS frustrating though is that he’s developed a serious case of happy feet this year. His feet are constantly going and not in that “hard to take down, always motoring” way anymore, just dancing. Especially behind the line immediately after the handoff. While I’d like to attribute this to Buffalo’s awful, horrible, pile of, line he’s also had problems hitting holes (when for some reason they were actually there, it definitely wasn’t because of skilled blockers) for the past year and a half. So many times I’d find myself yelling at him or the tv to just run through that space and instead he’d try to bounce it outside or back in the other direction and frankly he just doesn’t have the speed for that.

So hopefully you’ll get the original Beast Mode and be able to enjoy him like I did. And while you’re at it pick up a tshirt. This stupid trade put a huge dent in my pocket book. Now I can’t watch the Bills on tv or make any money off of them.

Also if you really want a horribly overrated safety we can send you Donte Whitner for next to nothing. Hell, I’ll pay you to take him off our hands.

by twoeightnine on Oct 7, 2010 4:41 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Gray area.

Marshawn himself actually owns a couple himself that I gave him when I was working for Brian Moorman’s charity. I’m sure he used them to fill a garbage can but…

It basically comes down to if the NFL/player wants to go after someone. I’ve never had a problem and I’ve actually received emails from people rather high up in both the NFL and NHL head offices saying great shirts and asking about buying them. I’ve been selling the Beast Mode one for 4 years now and had no problems so I’m not worried.

by twoeightnine on Oct 7, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cool

Didn’t know the NFL was that lenient on this stuff.

Good on yer, then.

by Thomas Beekers on Oct 7, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Eh, I don't think it's that they're necessarily lenient

just that going after someone my size would probably be cost prohibitive and generate some ill-will. Big fish to fry, especially with all the bootleg stuff out there. (Which they do very little about.)

by twoeightnine on Oct 7, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

The shirts are pretty cool (even if they infringe)

And that fact that you offer them in either regular-fit or a slim-fit style is pretty nice as well.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 7, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

It very well might be illegal however...

We could really use a…

2011 1st Round Draft Pick &
Krieg &
Hasselbeck &
Zorn &
Moon (to late) &
Mirer &
Dilfer &
Kitna &
Huard &
Friesz &
McGwire &
Stouffer &

…Shirt.

by EyeoftheHawk on Oct 7, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey, another Bills fan here wishing you good luck with one of my favorite former-Bills.

289’s blurb is on point, though I think Lynch has had the “happy feet” since I can remember. It happens when the hole he was going to doesn’t open (which was often, for us, and even more often lately). He kind of does this wide open legged running in place – maybe trying to juke open a hole. It doesn’t work, and the criticism is he should just hit it and take the yards he can get falling forward, which he has the power to do. 289 mentioned that he can carry guys down field -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGXmM6NR3ow&feature=related

That link is a a classic Beast Mode game against the Jets.

He seems like a happy go lucky kid, popular in the locker room, and even his trouble is stuff I’d chalk up to being young and stupid – not that they weren’t serious. I’m trying to say he doesn’t have a mean streak in him, he’s not going to get involved in a shooting at a strip club. People call him a thug but I never understood that. I always thought his personality is distinctly West Coast and I don’t think it quite fit with the blue collar nose to the grindstone atmosphere in Buffalo, which isn’t quite East Coast – more northern Midwest, I think. (I’m from NYC but went to college in Western NY).

That said, he’s not going to break home runs – at least from what I’ve seen – he doesn’t have that top gear. But if he gets into the secondary, he’s got some moves and it will take a couple backs to bring him down.

He’s a fun kid to watch. You guys got yourself a good player.

by oompaloompa on Oct 8, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Many thanks to both of you for your input.

Thank you, Walter Jones.
Thank you, Ken Griffey Jr.

by thebyron on Oct 9, 2010 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

The metrics are being applied to a pretty small sample.

The main estimates (Bills Run O above average, Pats Run D above average, Lynch second best back) are still gonna move around a lot when more games are played. The metrics are not terribly informative on such a small sample. These are probably the best estimates, but that doesn’t imply the estimates are probably accurate.

It’ll be cool to compare all this data once Lynch is up and running for the Hawks. It’s so damn hard to measure player performance and so rare when you can hold a player constant while varying the surrounding talent. I think our understanding of our backfield will be improved a lot in the coming weeks. We have had the same stable of backs for awhile and no real outside benchmarks to gauge the talent level. I am interested to see how Lynch looks compared with Force and Leon.

by michaelfox99 on Oct 7, 2010 6:27 PM PDT reply actions  

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