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Around SBN: Events Cause Mariners To Lose To Rangers

The Opening Three and Out

What is a franchise quarterback?

This details the opening drive.

It was forgettable.

So, let's take a quick detour before we get there.

Everyone knows that a quarterback's performance is hugely dependent on his surrounding talent. And almost everyone agrees that quarterback is the most important position on a football team. A quarterback is not more important than the other 10 players on offense or the other 44 players on the active squad. Even Peyton Manning could not thrive with sufficiently bad surrounding talent. But that kind of surrounding talent is hypothetical. As Indianapolis has proven season after season, there is something like a replacement level in football. A floor. If you have Peyton Manning, you can roll with Austin Collie, and if Collie goes down, there's probably another Collie level talent to be had.

In that sense, quarterback is more important than the other 10 players on offense. A great quarterback means the other ten players do no have to be as good and do not have to be as healthy. It's possible for a quarterback to play at a high level because of his surrounding talent, but someone like Kyle Orton, for instance, is probably not going to play nearly as well without Brandon Lloyd or Ryan Clady. That means the passing offense is dependent on more players and thus more vulnerable to injury or decline. It also means that Denver needs to have more money and resources tied up into its offense and that might mean the defense suffers. Think of the early Holmgren years in Seattle.

The value of a great quarterback isn't in that quarterback's ability to have a good game or a good season, it's that quarterback's ability to be good every year, as surrounding talent changes, as health fluctuates, against murderous schedules and the NFC West. It's that ability to be good when the team isn't and to be great when the team is. Teams starting Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers or Ben Roethlisberger have a shot every season. They have more chances because the team doesn't need everything to break right to be a contender. When things do break right, they have that one player that can push them over the top. So they are both more often a contender and more likely to be a formidable contender.

The 2005 Seahawks were a great team but fragile. They fielded three legitimately great players in their prime. Then, in 2006, one suffered injury and precipitous decline, one put the Seahawks over the barrel in a no-holds-barred mission to sign with Minnesota, and one--well, Walter Jones couldn't do it alone. Over the next few seasons the Seahawks devolved from contender to fringe playoff team to basement dweller. Had Seattle a quarterback as talented as Jones, and a left tackle as talented as Matt Hasselbeck, the Seahawks may very well be contenders to this day.

When we talk about Hasselbeck and his future with the Seahawks, the question has never been, can Matt be good again? It's will Matt contribute to Seattle being a great team again? Can Hasselbeck be the kind of talent that ensures a good to great passing offense every season, with good surrounding talent or just adequate, through injuries, without great talent around him? Or is he someone like Kyle Orton, who can be good, but is unlikely to ever start for a great team?

Anyway, four dollars a pound.

1-10-SEA 21 (14:56) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass short left to 89-J.Carlson to SEA 22 for 1 yard (41-R.Harper).

Within five: 9

Within 10: 9

Seahawks: WR (left/right), TE (right), I (right)

Saints: 4-3 over

Five blockers. Four rush. Hasselbeck pumps left, looks right and finds John Carlson running a flat. He slows and looks back and catches and is tackled immediately by Roman Harper. Saints start out with their strong safety sitting underneath. Interesting.

2-9-SEA 22 (14:19) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass incomplete short left (91-W.Smith).

Within five: 7

Within 10: 10

Seahawks: 2 WR (left) TE (left/right), RB (Chris Baker motions right before the snap.)

Saints: 4-3 (OLBs pressuring right "B" gap and left "C" gap)

Saints rush six. Seattle responds with seven blockers. Ben Obomanu runs a quick-curl. Harper buzzes underneath Obo's route. The pass is tipped at the line by Will Smith and tumbles incomplete.

3-9-SEA 22 (14:16) (Shotgun) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass incomplete deep right to 11-D.Butler.

Within five: 7

Within 10: 10

Seahawks: WR (left), 2 WR (right), Split backs, Shotgun (Obomanu motions from right slot to left slot prior to the snap)

Saints: 3-3

Saints rush five. Seahawks block with seven. The blitz is picked up. Justin Forsett strings out Scott Shanle around left end. Deon Butler draws single coverage on the right. He's matched one on one against Jabari Greer. Usama Young jumps underneath. Hasselbeck slings it deep to Butler and Butler attempts to run under it, but the pass is too errant and falls incomplete.

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A franchise QB is one that is able to put the offense on his back

A QB isn’t limited by the talent of the players around him, but rather elevates the play of those around him. A franchise QB takes more than the opposing defense gives him. A franchise QB can succeed without elite OLs, elite WRs, elite run games, elite defenses or a pile of excuses.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Nov 23, 2010 4:00 PM PST reply actions  

This is so say that Peyton and Rivers and the 2007-vintage Matt looked like franchise QBs,

able to thrive relatively independent of run/defense support or personnel. Today’s looks like a guy that depends on the talent surrounding him (rather than elevating that talent). At his best, he’s looking like a guy able to take advantage of the talent around him. At his worst, he’s looking like a guy dragging down the talent around him. So far, he hasn’t looked like a guy able to elevate the talent of the guys around him.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Nov 23, 2010 6:42 PM PST up reply actions  

This is backwards

“Had Seattle a quarterback as talented as Jones, and a left tackle as talented as Matt Hasselbeck, the Seahawks may very well be contenders to this day.”

by 12thman on Nov 23, 2010 4:19 PM PST reply actions  

I think John meant it to be backwards.

If Seattle had a QB that was a surefire hall of famer like Jones and left tackle that was just very good in his prime like Matt then Seattle might still be an elite team.

by MFAN on Nov 23, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Holy Shit

Wow I didn’t catch that logic train at all first time through. Thanks MFAN.

by 12thman on Nov 23, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

That pic makes me sad

Tats is just average now and it wouldn’t shock me if he was traded.

I suffer from IBS, otherwise known as "Influx of Billick Syndrome".

by SSreporters on Nov 23, 2010 5:15 PM PST reply actions  

Why would we trade him?

If he’s that bad, no one else would want him.

by djafrot on Nov 23, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Though he did seem pretty bad last week.

He wasn’t the only one. I haven’t noticed that many missed tackles in a while.

by djafrot on Nov 23, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Typo
Withing 10: 9

As an aside, I pretty much agree with this. Not to be sycophantic, but I feel the need to say something other than ‘typo’, and to be quite honest I haven’t got my thinking hat on today,

by Mickapeckalin on Nov 23, 2010 5:35 PM PST reply actions  

Although I just noticed that a theme (at least from this game)

That the Hawks generally kept in more men to block than the Saints used in blitzing. Does anyone perceive this as an indication that the coaches have perhaps less confidence in the O-line than they would like; or is it just typical of a ‘better safe than sorry’ approach?

by Mickapeckalin on Nov 23, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions  

With a base 4-3 defense, you'd expect to rush 4 against 5 blockers

If you have the RB stay in for pass protection on a typical passing down, that leaves 6 blockers in place. Adding a TE in protection would leave 7 blockers and 3 receivers. In most cases, you’re not going to be rushing 6, let alone 7 players.

Long story short, my back-of-the-envelope calculation leads me to believe that the number of blockers will typically equal or exceed the number of pass rushers. Pass-rushers and receivers are typically double-teamed, leading me to believe that personnel imbalances in those areas are common.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Nov 23, 2010 6:37 PM PST up reply actions  

You might want to fix this.
Had Seattle a quarterback as talented as Jones, and a left tackle as talented as Matt Hasselbeck, the Seahawks may very well be contenders to this day.

"We just had a near life experience."
Semper Fi' (Now a proud member of Couch Company, 1st Civ Div.)
Pain don't hurt...

by RolloTomasi on Nov 23, 2010 7:23 PM PST reply actions  

Hah!

Too funny.

"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey

by Tyler Jorgensen on Nov 24, 2010 9:59 AM PST up reply actions  

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