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Around SBN: Despite Relocation Drama, Coyotes Overcome Adversity

On CBS Fantasy Football

For the past two years, SB Nation football writers have been paid to participate in a fantasy football league. Sounds sweet. It is. The purpose of these sponsorships, as best as I can tell, is to raise awareness about alternative fantasy football providers. And CBS and Flea Flicker are alternative providers. I imagine Yahoo, ESPN and the NFL control the great majority of the fantasy football market.

I mostly use Yahoo myself. The reason is obvious: Yahoo is user friendly. It's convenient and convenience is king when little else separates one provider from another. Most everyone has a Yahoo account, and that means a lengthy step is skipped. Some might think, what's so hard about registering an account, but that's not how sales works. When someone has that impulse, you capture it, and the more hurdles you put in that person's way, the less likely you complete the sale.

On that note, I am going to use this post, mandated by the contract, to try and throw CBS a bone. I will offer easy suggestions to make their service better.

Star-divide

Simplify your team page

The team page is way too busy and the features people want (transactions, team editing, live scoring, draft results, rules, etc.) are not nearly prominent enough. People should be able to go to their league, to their team, make the changes they want and be done as quickly as possible. Don't jam the page with a "cover story" or "CBS sports video" and bury what people are there for.

Simplify your setup

I am not tech savvy, but I am good bit savvier than an average consumer, and I found the process of setting up the league, setting the scoring rules, the draft time and league invites to be clumsy and frustrating. Make the menus easier. Make important links more prominent. Don't make changes, like changes to draft time or changes to scoring rules, require multiple steps.

Simplify roster moves

Check this out, how unbelievably clunky is this interface?

Gabab_medium

In a market where drag and drop interfaces are standard, CBS requires three steps to accomplish one move: designate position, determine active or inactive and set lineup. The designation of active or inactive on a grid that is split between "starters" and "bench" is entirely unnecessary. Terrible UI and totally unacceptable for something that is supposed to be fun.

Then, on top of that, this is how you add or drop players:

Wowza_medium

No stats. No links to player information. Alphabetical! Erik Ainge should not be atop any fantasy football list. Apart from the poor interface, it's butt ugly. It looks like CompuServe circa 1989.

Not good. Not everything has to be perfect, but setting a roster and adding and dropping talent are the two primary functions of playing fantasy football. Both are executed about as poorly as possible.

Don't use screwy default scoring settings

I am okay with alternative scoring rules. It makes fantasy football more fun and more challenging. However, virtually every fantasy football guide and fantasy football league share the same basic scoring rules (x points for yards, x points for touchdowns, x points for receptions, -x points for fumbles, interceptions, etc.) This has to be the default setting. Allow for customization, go for it. Setting the default scoring rules for something completely left field, like length of touchdown and arbitrary yardage milestones, that's just asinine.

The commissioner should not have to change the rules to arrive at normal. Because, if they don't, or are not aware, league members are either going to be ambushed on draft day or very unhappy with their team.

All this boils down to ease of interaction for the consumer. You didn't make any deadly mistakes, CBS, like using a despicable, blood-sucking, disease-spreading, food-chain-exempt mascot. That would be deadly. But your fantasy setup as currently constructed is clunky, frustrating and never likely to attract users from simpler, more familiar and more fun services.

You're welcome.

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I couldn't agree more.

I’m in the league and I’ve all but ignored it since week two for these exact reasons. Spot on.

(Sorry; before I sound like too much of a suck-up, JM, it’s “you’re”….and you’re rec’d.)

by thebyron on Nov 29, 2010 6:36 PM PST reply actions  

Indeed.

I hope they actually look at this.

by killacamkilla2 on Nov 29, 2010 6:41 PM PST reply actions  

I hope this satisfies your contractual obligation.

I had the same issues with CBS fantasy football, which is why I don’t use it.

Yahoo! is my favorite. Then ESPN. Then NFL.com. CBS doesn’t even make the list. If there are other awesome (free) fantasy football sites, I’d be happy to hear about them.

by Chirp on Nov 29, 2010 7:35 PM PST reply actions  

I seem to remember playing CBS Fantasy a few years ago, and it was damned OK.

But this is the worst thing I’ve ever seen. It’s an embarrassment. I hate to be so vociferous but goddamn, I’ve never had a more frustrating time with a supposedly “professional” website.

by djafrot on Nov 29, 2010 7:40 PM PST reply actions  

And while you're at it CBS...

Get rid of the annoying flash-based score tracker on your homepage and go back to how it use to be. I hate having to click click click click click trying to find the score to the one game I want.

by jb3 on Nov 29, 2010 7:52 PM PST reply actions  

I don't mind CBS

But then again it was the first web based fantasy league I used. Before then the two long-standing leagues I was in still did it by hand and one of them had just quit sending the scores in by mail for a fancy new method called “email”.

I personally can’t stand Yahoo either. I’ve also used the defunct EA Sports, Fleaflicker, ESPN and finally MyFantasyLeague.

I’m considering moving the CBS site to MyFantasyLeague because it’s cheap, but it isn’t intuitive either. I keep the CBS site simply because only two other people in my league have any savvy and they’ll get lost elsewhere.

In all, the Fantasy website marketplace is wide open in my opinion. All of them really suck and someone with a real knack for UI could come in and kill everyone. As a matter of fact, what the hell am I doing typing this when I should be making that site…

by biju on Nov 29, 2010 8:04 PM PST reply actions  

I use the NFL Fantasy Football.

It’s my first year playing and the UI is very friendly. I must say I like it. Easy way to calculate points, draft, pick up FA’s and play. No one picked up Peyton Hillis the week after he shot onto the scene, so I did. He got me 40 points this Sunday. I won with Rodgers, Lynch, Hillis, BMW (he didn’t even play!), Woodhead, Austin, Hernandez, Mare and the Seahawks D! I wasn’t expecting a win hah! I scored the most points out of my league with 104. Rodgers and Hillis are the bread winners week in and week out.

by PhoneHomeET29 on Nov 29, 2010 10:00 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Peyton Hillis

The Great White (fantasy running back) Hope.

Love the game, love the beer, love your team.

by THolt on Nov 29, 2010 10:10 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

It would be awesome if he was a Hawk.

It’s very refreshing to see a white guy in a predominantly black role tearing up the league. I hope Gerhardt turns out to be something special. He won’t have much wear and tear on him if he plays behind AP for awhile. I would crap if I seen a top ten white CB…. Shoot, any white CB.

by PhoneHomeET29 on Nov 29, 2010 11:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Jason Sehorn was an athletic freak...

couldn’t stay healthy though.

"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey

by Tyler Jorgensen on Nov 29, 2010 11:48 PM PST up reply actions  

sportscenter

I remember Sehorn popped off at ESPN once, and the four-letter responded by putting together a top-10 montage of Sehorn getting burned. That included the one play where he was burned for a touchdown and was pulling up his pants in the process.

Sports and Bremertonians. Because we can.

by wackomann on Nov 30, 2010 12:05 AM PST up reply actions  

That's an easy video to make on pretty much any CB though.

Not that he wasn’t burned repeatedly. His injuries were an issue on that, and I don’t think he was as great a football player as he was simply a supreme athlete.

But yeah, I remember the pants play— that was classic.

"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey

by Tyler Jorgensen on Nov 30, 2010 1:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I forgot about Sehorn.

Did ESPN really do that? Cause he was an analyst for them at one point.

Love the game, love the beer, love your team.

by THolt on Nov 30, 2010 4:13 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

My dynasty league uses Myfantasyleague.com.

Very customizable both on your home page and for the league set up and rules in general.

There is a fee for using it, but we just build that into our league dues. Considering it is 100 (next year 150) per team, and 5 dollars per transaction, the fee more than justifies our unique set up.

There are some things I would change on it, but what I would really like to see is the “big boys” like CBS and Yahoo add the functionality it has.

"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey

by Tyler Jorgensen on Nov 29, 2010 10:27 PM PST reply actions  

That's some serious Fantasy Football.

Since Im a broke college student, 5-7, and first year into the FF I don’t feel comfortable and confident enough yet. I got some friends who play in leagues like that though who love it. One of these days ill do it….and I’ll win big with P. Hillis!!! Mwahahahaha!!!

by PhoneHomeET29 on Nov 29, 2010 11:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

You have NO IDEA.

We actually have 45 man rosters, a salary cap, multi-year contracts, escalations on players not under contract based on performance, 15 man freeze roster from year to year, scoring is handicapped to be equal through all positions, and we play QB, RB, RB, WR, WR, TE, Flex, K, Punter, DL, DL, LB, LB, DB, DB, and DFlex.

I know more about DL from across the league than I ever care to, but, anything to gain an advantage…

"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey

by Tyler Jorgensen on Nov 29, 2010 11:51 PM PST up reply actions  

That is exponentially more complex than my keeper fantasy baseball league.

And I get mocked as a nerd by my non-sports literate friends for it. But I’m also bigger than they are. So fuck them.

Love the game, love the beer, love your team.

by THolt on Nov 30, 2010 4:17 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

My league uses Fantasybowl

They are very user friendly and you can customize your league. They have live updated scoring and rank players by position to your scoring setup. I have done other website leagues and they do not even come close to Fantasybowl. They are fairly cheap at $79 dollars for regular leagues or you can get into their money leagues for a little more cash.
They also offer you a playoff league were you can pick a team from the playoff teams. You just select the players you think will score the most in the playoffs.

BMW17 Comeback Player of the Year and future Probowl Mainstay

by eohawkfan on Nov 29, 2010 11:27 PM PST reply actions  

ah, cbs

Around 2000-02 or so, I ran a couple CBS leagues with my friends because the Commissioner packages were all free before they started charging $199 or whatever it was (I was entering college at this point). We had a great fantasy baseball season in 2000 with the Commissioner package, especially after we tweaked strikeouts for the hitters from 1 point to 0.5 point so as to not penalize the Jim Thomes of the world. I also ran a football league later that year using the Commissioner package again, and I thought having a live stat-tracker was pretty boss back in 2000.

The best thing my current league (run through Yahoo) did a couple years ago was scrub the team defenses in favor of three defensive player slots. I think Patrick Willis went in the fifth round of our draft this season. Point being, it adds another dimension and those players can really make a difference. For instance, a couple weeks ago I dropped a backup receiver so I could couch-surf Charles Woodson through Green Bay’s bye week.

Sports and Bremertonians. Because we can.

by wackomann on Nov 30, 2010 12:14 AM PST reply actions  

See my league listing above.

People actually make late season pushes by trading for punters, DL, and DB’s who are scoring well…

One guy pre-season spent 110 of his 250 dollar cap on the ultimate DL of Peppers and Allen, and it terrified us as the season began. Fortunately, both have struggled much of the year, and he’s mostly out of the picture, though he could play spoiler to us very easily…

"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey

by Tyler Jorgensen on Nov 30, 2010 1:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Again.

Wow.

Love the game, love the beer, love your team.

by THolt on Nov 30, 2010 4:20 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

drafting?

Surely your league doesn’t have a live 45-round draft, right? Or do you just draft the first 15 or so rounds and have a free-agency scrum for the rest of your rosters? Your description of your league reads as haaaaard-cooooore.

Sports and Bremertonians. Because we can.

by wackomann on Nov 30, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

We start with our 15 freezes per roster..

So around 150 players are gone before auction and draft. (Technically you have a 250 dollar/15 man max cap, if you are over, you don’t get to keep 15 total players. I think twice we’ve seen a 13 player freeze roster, and once a 14).

Then we have an “RFA” (restricted free agent) auction prior to the draft, which is 25 rounds. You will have, at the conclusion of the draft, anywhere between 40 and 45 players depending on how many picks you have. (If you acquire additional picks, you can draft additional players. If you are short picks, at the conclusion of the draft you get to pick up compensation players until your 40 man minimum roster is filled… oh, and during the year you can drop below 40, but you get to start there at least.)

RFA auction starting bid is 10 dollars or 1/2 last year’s contract, whichever is higher. (For example Peyton’s starting bid was 53 dollars last year due to a 96 dollar contract.)

The RFA auction allows you to sign any player who was on a GLFL (Gordie Lockbaum Football League) roster at any time the year before. So, basically, no rookies. Arian Foster wasn’t on a team last year, so he wasn’t available. Some guys slip through the cracks every year and come auction time you WISH they were available.

You of course are not allowed to exceed your 250 alloted dollars during the auction (the cap is for freeze and auction, and doesn’t come into account during the season. We’ve debated a higher cap during season adding drafted player salaries, but are afraid it will restrict trading and weaker team’s ability to rebuild by trading established higher price guys to contenders in the stretch run.

One more thing— signing an RFA involved loss of a draft choice. 5th round for the first signing, then 4th, 3rd, 2nd, and even 1st round if you choose to go that route. Also, if you trade for an “RFA Pick” (any draft pick in the first five rounds) you then have additional opportunity to sign RFA auction players if you so choose.

This year, for example, we (co-GM and I) have already given up our 1st rounder, but we have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and two 5th’s through trade. RFA picks are HUGE trading chips, and most trades involve a combination of players and picks, and a GM needs to make moves thinking of both this year and the next, in regard to the picks, and the potential resigning/contract status and potential escalation of a player’s salary. You are allowed to trade picks two years in advance— basically as long as contracts extend.

After the auction concludes, we have the draft. Any player not signed in RFA auction and all rookies are now available. Last year the first 3 picks were Ryan Mathews (Fuck us, we traded up to get him and now some jackwagon wants us to give a future RFA pick for Tolbert now. UGH!)

We do things to balance the scoring like giving yardage escalations— for example TE’s get a bonus 5 points at 25 yards. Considering top players score around 10-14 a game, that’s HUGE and makes an upper tier TE not only a solid scorer, but a potential flex play if you have multiple.

Another neat rule we have is that we have no playoffs, but a couple times a year we have “matchup weeks” in which 1 plays 2, 3 plays 4, etc. Unlike playoffs which are slanted oddly, this allows you to build your playoff into the season when rosters are more complete and teams are playing games that matter, instead of the classic “week 16/17 bye week” screwing up the fantasy playoffs.

Not to brag, but we set this league up ourselves in 2004 and have revised rules every year since if there is a need— constantly trying to keep a balance and equality to both the contenders and the rebuilders, and the scoring evolution of the NFL. The league is super cool, we formed it in SoCal when I taught and coached with about 1/2 the league members.

Whenever I bring the GLFL up to “fantasy geeks” they’re pretty much blown away. This last year my co-GM and I drove down to Cali to participate in the draft live for the first time. It was a golf, poker and fantasy football loaded weekend. Not a bad way to kick off the NFL season.

Another benefit— in other leagues I don’t need a cheat sheet or anything. Our research for that draft is so intensive that I can pretty much just draft from memory and base knowledge in other leagues.

So yeah, that’s the league in a nutshell!

"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey

by Tyler Jorgensen on Nov 30, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh, a couple more random notes...

We originally had 8 teams, and plan to expand to 12 eventually. We wrote in expansion rules to the league’s original constitution.

We also had a league meeting pre-draft this year to discuss contingency plans in event of a lockout.

Also, any adjustment to rules that involves scoring or cap issues we try to decide on one full year in advance, so nobody gets caught in the cold on the change. For instance, we’re going to make the DE and DT score differently, given the proliferation of 3-4 and lack of solid scoring DE’s. DT’s traditionally score less, so we’re going to bump their tackles to two points per tackle and their assists to one, which should neutralize the advantage of the few teams who have consistent elite DE talent compared to the rest of the league.

It wont make the elite DE’s irrelevant, it will just make more playable guys given the current deficit.

We’re also going to alter RB scoring given the league moving to dual backs. We got tired of “vulture” TD’s negating a good performance by a guy who didn’t get into the end zone. We haven’t decided exactly what we’ll go, but probably a point per ever four touches (carry or catch) or some such, to boost workhorses like Stephen Jackson who rarely get into the endzone despite being elite talent.

"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey

by Tyler Jorgensen on Nov 30, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I have no interest whatsoever in fantasy football.

But this is a good write up for those who are.

It's STILL Great to be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on Nov 30, 2010 4:38 AM PST reply actions  

Great post, and one additional suggestion for fixing

I’m a long-time CBS user mainly because my league’s commish seems to like them for reasons unknown. Here’s another quibble with their platform: Trades. Ever asked CBS to evaluate a trade offer for you? It may not be apparent, but the evaluation is based on preseason projections and doesn’t change, no matter what happens during the season leading up to the trade proposal. Ridiculous. If you want to check it out, try any trade involving Ryan Torain. Even before he got injured, but after he established himself as the RB1 in Washington, projections for Torain were: zero.

by sideshow bob on Nov 30, 2010 6:33 AM PST reply actions  

This would suck when an owner doesn't take into acount anything but what the computer says, skewing value excessively...

"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey

by Tyler Jorgensen on Nov 30, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Computers are the wrong place to look for affirmation

Really. Don’t go there. If you are unsure of a trade and need some feedback, hit the message boards. A computer just can’t factor in intangibles the way a person can. Get a discussion going there, and the pros and cons get aired out a little better for you. I pretty much ignore the site projections, no matter what site I’m on.

by Seabeek on Nov 30, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't look at me... I'm not the one who goes the computer route. I just see trades get nixed because of the numbers the machine spits out...

"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey

by Tyler Jorgensen on Nov 30, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Worst Fantasy Football setup.

I’ve used ESPN, EA sports, NFL., Yahoo, and now CBS. I have a very strong desire to throw things at the TV whenever they advertise how great there FF setup is. The best part of that add/drop player list is that you can still add Brandon Coutu of the seahawks as your kicker.

by TS6 on Nov 30, 2010 10:19 AM PST reply actions  

CBS is pretty indepth

But like you said, not very user friendly. With so many different FF sites out there, from Yahoo to ESPN, you’d think CBS would manage to make it a bit more user friendly.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Nov 30, 2010 11:00 AM PST reply actions  

Just as a side note...

…on my CBS fantasy team, Peyton Manning and Randy Moss are on the bench right now. Vick is starting. How weird is that?

by djafrot on Nov 30, 2010 12:36 PM PST reply actions  

John Morgan is the Black Crowes of Football!

He sticks his finger in the eye of his sponsors, and keeps on typing. And they can’t do a thing, because he ROCKS!

by Seabeek on Nov 30, 2010 5:14 PM PST reply actions  

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